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TOPIC: Mustad's Latest Acquisition

RE:Mustad's Latest Acquisition 17 Jun 2007 22:51 #76

  • Tom Stovall CJF
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Steve Kraus, CJF in gray, deletia

I never said that the price per nail didn't go up, see how you are twisting what I say.

Nossir, I'm not "twisting anything." I said the price of nails went up with unit pricing; you appeared to disagree.

OK here it goes. When nails were sold by Capewell in 5 lb. boxes, there was a theoretical count per lb. If I remember right that may have been 172, but I'm not sure so don't hold me to that number.

Whatever the "theoretical" count, nails were sold by the pound at time.

When Stanadyne took over the operation they did two things to make sure that there was less nails per pound. One was that they allowed all the manufacturing debris to stay in the box which could sometimes be 5% or more of the weight you were paying for by the pound.

I'll certainly concede the 5% trash figure, but remember that percentage.

When Mustad took over they eliminated over 95% of that junk by changing the way the nails leave the machine. They also had a smaller tray where operators could check the nails regularly for quality before allowing them to be dumped into the larger batch.

Lemme refresh your memory, any of this look familiar?

The FTC has approved the application of Mustad Internaitonal Group NV of Bulle, Switzerland, and its subsidiary, Mustad Connecticut, Inc., of Bloomfield, Connecticut, to divest certain assets relating to the horseshoe nailmaking business to Metallurgica Rusconi Domenico SAS, which owns the "Mondial" trademark and is based in northern Italy. Divestiture was required under a 1995 consent order settling charges that, through a series of acquisitions, Mustad illegally monopolized the sale of rolled horseshoe nails in the United States, which allowed the firms to raise prices as much as 50 to 75 percent. The divestiture is designed to re-establish a viable competitor in the market. (See Nov. 7, 1995 news release for more details regarding the consent order; Docket No. C-3624; Commission vote on Sept. 6 to approve the divestiture was 5-0.) FTC staff contact is Roberta Baruch, 202-326-2861. [Emphasis mine]

As I stated earlier the price had to go up. A whole modern day facility was set up which took the machines and workers out of sweat shop conditions. Anybody that has ever toured the Capewell factory with me has always been impressed with it is and the nice conditions for the employees. They also usually say it is amazing that the nails don't cost more, after they see what goes into it.

LMAO! Had to go up?

Had Mustad not bought Capewell and Cooper back then, the supply of nails would have been in drastic short supply and the price of them wouild have gone up a lot more for awhile, until someone else entered the picture.

"Someone" was already in the picture. The Japanese company, Izumi, was in business at the time and their #1 Starlight race nail (equivalent of the Capewell 3 1/2) was the best race nail on the market at the time.

I do agree with you that it is a shame to see our products out sourced overseas. I have no control over that part. Mustad tools have been made in Europe from the getgo. Unfortunately, this is the way business is done these days. Our farrier industry uses products now from all over the world.

Others have since commented on the corporate ethics involved in Mustad's moving the Simonds operation, so I'll point out that the 1995 divestature approval mentioned that Mustad had been able to raise nail prices 50%-75% by virtue of their monopolistic acquisitions. Here in Texas, there's a helluva lot of difference between the impact on cost to the farrier of the 5% trash figure you mentioned and the 50%-75% the court mentioned.

As I indicated in a post above I am sorry if I was harsh, I shouildn't take this personally. I am not lying to you, so don't insinuate that I am. And Burnie did hold Mustad in high regard, you can ask Blaine or Baker about that. He would not have worked with us if it were any other way.

I didn't "insinuate" anything, I stated an if/then proposition.

No body at Mustad tells me what to say. I have witnessed all I talk about and I am just trying to set the facts straight. When you say "ounces of pennies while extracting tons of cash", maybe you should back that up with actual figures, otherwise it is just rhetoric.

So there is my explaining, what do you say.


I'm not an accountant, but I'd hazard a guess that the vast majority of Mustad's "giving back" involves tax-deductable expenses. And, while I appreciate you're riding for the brand, lemme reiterate that there's a helluva difference between 5% trash in the box and a 50%-75% price hike.
Tom Stovall, CJF
"The only foolish question is the one left unasked."
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RE:Mustad's Latest Acquisition 19 Jun 2007 03:00 #77

  • anvilsteve
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Tom-
We have to stop meeting like this. Yes the price of nails went up with the unit pricing, but that was going to happen any way. The unit pricing was not done to hide the price increase. The unit pricing was instituted because weight means nothing for inventory, production, and sales purposes when mfg. small items like nails. The price had to go up because old Capewell was not profitable at their old price structure, the new box needed to be tamper proof because there was complaints about the old boxes not keeping their packed weight due to tampering. The whole hardware industry has gone to unit pricing.

Back then the choice was to either let Capewell die or ressurect the co. Not taking them over would have let Cooper have free rein on the rolled nail market. They were selling at 40% below cost to kill Capewell. With Capewell gone, what do you think the price of a Capewell style nail would have been? Add the 40% plus a profit and you get that 60% or more price increase! Cooper probably wouldn't have stayed very long anyway because the market was not sufficent for them.

While you were back in Texas shoeing and eating Bar B Que, I was working with the people at the Capewell plant. Is there good Bar B Que in Ledbetter, if so I might come down to talk to you. Goran Gustavvson and I spent many hours trying to resolve what to do about pricing, new packing etc. He truly wanted to produce a premium product at a fair price to farriers. That is what I mean when I say I was there, you were not. True manufacturing costs and investment in a future for Capewell led to the large price increases. There was no one else willing to step up here. As far as Izumi goes, yes they have a great race nail, but I would not like to use the 5 equiv. unless I had to. They also had notorious slow delivery. Do you have real info. that Izumi would have set up a a US operation or been interested in Capewell. Had Mustad not saved the only domestic nail mfg., there wouldn't be a Capewell today. There would have been a time of chaos until someone else stepped up. But you don't seem to care about that. One more thing, we kept the complete line of Capewell nails even though many of the odd sizes are not profitable. There was always a committment to the market from Mustad to do that. It is doubtful that Izumi would have done that, no other company has .

As far as the anti-trust suit goes. You are considered a monopoly when you control more than 2/3 of the market, even if there aren't any other competitors willing to expand. Did the anti-trust suit bring down the price of nails? I guess not. Did the new competititor take market share and supply a less expensive nail? Not really. So what did your tax dollars accomplish? Mustad was forbidden to expand their nail business, so as a direct result I was told to start thinking about farrier tools for them. This may have eventually happened, but the anti- trust suit speeded that up.

So there you have it, you can't produce nails and sell below cost and survive. Many have tried. The price of nails had to go up drastically back then or there would be no Capewell now. Look Tom, we worked really hard to balance the farriers's needs as well as the company's. The reason why I am spending so much time here with you is that I am trying to relate what happened and why. We put a lot of effort forth back then, and it is really annoying that you seem to think we are such bad guys.

I guess you haven't contacted the Chapman boys yet to find out about what I said about Burney's involvement with Mustad. While you are at it you can ask them about me to see if I am a straight shooter.

For you other guys who are following this, FYI, Simonds Industries sold off several of their smaller companies due to poor profitability. The division that produces their horse rasps was one of them. Mustad saw the opertunity and took it. Should we have let the Simonds rasp die?

Steve Kraus, CJF
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RE:Mustad's Latest Acquisition 19 Jun 2007 04:58 #78

  • J.H. shoeing
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now he's on the danged B-B-Q :eek:


your not going to send it off and start selling by the slice are ya?

is nothing sacred?
Jeff Holder

Some people are like Slinky’s, pretty much useless but make you smile when you push them down the stairs.
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RE:Mustad's Latest Acquisition 19 Jun 2007 12:27 #79

  • Tom Stovall CJF
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Steve Kraus, CJF in gray, deletia

We have to stop meeting like this.

Indulge me.

Yes the price of nails went up with the unit pricing, but that was going to happen any way.

Maybe so, maybe no.

The unit pricing was not done to hide the price increase. The unit pricing was instituted because weight means nothing for inventory, production, and sales purposes when mfg. small items like nails.

Weight is a consideration in packaging and shipping.

The price had to go up because old Capewell was not profitable at their old price structure, the new box needed to be tamper proof because there was complaints about the old boxes not keeping their packed weight due to tampering. The whole hardware industry has gone to unit pricing.

While unit pricing is the standard of the industry, little stuff is still packaged by weight.

Back then the choice was to either let Capewell die or ressurect the co. Not taking them over would have let Cooper have free rein on the rolled nail market. They were selling at 40% below cost to kill Capewell. With Capewell gone, what do you think the price of a Capewell style nail would have been?

Since neither of us are clairvoyant, we can only discuss probabilities.

Add the 40% plus a profit and you get that 60% or more price increase! Cooper probably wouldn't have stayed very long anyway because the market was not sufficent for them.

One can only wonder why Cooper entered the market and made an effort to take the lion's share if the market was not sufficient for them.

While you were back in Texas shoeing and eating Bar B Que, I was working with the people at the Capewell plant.

You left out drinking beer. One cannot properly eat Texas barbecue without washing it down with copious amounts of ice cold beer.

Is there good Bar B Que in Ledbetter, if so I might come down to talk to you.

We're too small to support a cafe here in Ledbetter, but we do have a beer joint. If you're wanting barbecue, we'll have to drive nine miles to Giddings. The City Meat Market, at the junction of US 290 and US 77, has the best barbecue in Lee County, maybe in the world.

Goran Gustavvson and I spent many hours trying to resolve what to do about pricing, new packing etc. He truly wanted to produce a premium product at a fair price to farriers. That is what I mean when I say I was there, you were not. True manufacturing costs and investment in a future for Capewell led to the large price increases. There was no one else willing to step up here.

No big deal, corporate takeovers happen all the time - but they're never fueled by corporate benevolence.

As far as Izumi goes, yes they have a great race nail, but I would not like to use the 5 equiv. unless I had to.

Me neither, their #4 Platers Special had a shank like a tree trunk.

They also had notorious slow delivery.

I never had any trouble getting their #1 race nails.

Do you have real info. that Izumi would have set up a a US operation or been interested in Capewell.

I ain't got the foggiest about Izumi's intentions at the time; I do know they were a player in the US market and they made a damn good race nail that sold for less than the Capewell or Mustad equivalent.

Had Mustad not saved the only domestic nail mfg., there wouldn't be a Capewell today.

So? There's no longer a domestic Simonds, but that doesn't seem to bother Mustad too much.

There would have been a time of chaos until someone else stepped up. But you don't seem to care about that.

Whoa! Since you're not clairvoyant, you don't know whether chaos was inevitable or my personal feelings, if any, on the matter.

One more thing, we kept the complete line of Capewell nails even though many of the odd sizes are not profitable. There was always a committment to the market from Mustad to do that.

Apparently, Mustad feels keeping the "complete line" of Capewell nails is in the corporate interest.

It is doubtful that Izumi would have done that, no other company has.

Clairvoyancy is not one of my talents; I don't know what Izumi might have done. Neither does anyone else.

As far as the anti-trust suit goes. You are considered a monopoly when you control more than 2/3 of the market, even if there aren't any other competitors willing to expand. Did the anti-trust suit bring down the price of nails? I guess not. Did the new competititor take market share and supply a less expensive nail? Not really. So what did your tax dollars accomplish? Mustad was forbidden to expand their nail business, so as a direct result I was told to start thinking about farrier tools for them. This may have eventually happened, but the anti- trust suit speeded that up.

You seem to be saying that it's okay for a multinational to break US anti-trust laws if they can think of a really good excuse.

So there you have it, you can't produce nails and sell below cost and survive. Many have tried. The price of nails had to go up drastically back then or there would be no Capewell now.

I have trouble digesting absolutes like "had" to go up and Capewell exists in name only now, it's Mustad under a different banner.

Look Tom, we worked really hard to balance the farriers's needs as well as the company's. The reason why I am spending so much time here with you is that I am trying to relate what happened and why. We put a lot of effort forth back then, and it is really annoying that you seem to think we are such bad guys.

Heaven forfend that you might be annoyed at my pointing out that Mustad, like every other multinational, acts only in its own interest. I appreciate the spin you're trying to put on things, but if Mustad's keeping a domestic nail manufacturer in business here in the States was a matter of importance, why wasn't keeping a domestic rasp manufacturer in business here in the States also a matter of importance?

I guess you haven't contacted the Chapman boys yet to find out about what I said about Burney's involvement with Mustad. While you are at it you can ask them about me to see if I am a straight shooter.

I appreciate your riding for the brand, it's considered an attribute hereabouts - but it's not necessary to admire the brand in order to appreciate a hand's dedication.

For you other guys who are following this, FYI, Simonds Industries sold off several of their smaller companies due to poor profitability. The division that produces their horse rasps was one of them. Mustad saw the opertunity and took it. Should we have let the Simonds rasp die?

Is poor profitability the same as lack of profit? Did Mustad feel the only way Simonds could make a profit was to move the operation to a Third World country with cheap labor and no effective regulations governing manufacturers? Or, did they move a profit making operation from the States to Columbia in order to make a greater profit? In reality, Mustad is doing nothing different than any other multinational, so why pretend otherwise? Multinationals have a long and glorious history of moving their operations away from places with high wages in order to inflate their profits. (e.g., Consider the US textile industry: Where were your Wranglers made?)
Tom Stovall, CJF
"The only foolish question is the one left unasked."
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RE:Mustad's Latest Acquisition 20 Jun 2007 00:46 #80

  • brian robertson
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Steve, Tell the folks at Mustad, thanks. I have to much to do, to start worrying about where to get good nails. I certainly don't want to have to make my own.

Doesn't Mustad make most of their $ making automotive and industrial fasteners instewad of horseshoe nails?
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RE:Mustad's Latest Acquisition 20 Jun 2007 00:54 #81

  • brian robertson
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And the best part, when the Horse mags all report the terrible price increases for nails, my clients nearly beg me for a shoeing price increase or offer large tips. Typical $10 increase for the additional $.90 worth of nails. Not bad economics. Thanks Mustad, keep up the good work. I couldn't do it without you.
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RE:Mustad's Latest Acquisition 20 Jun 2007 02:24 #82

  • anvilsteve
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Tom-
Well, well, well, I see we finally found some common ground, beer and BarBQue, now you are talking!

Getting back to our discusion, I may not be clairvoyant but knowing about sales figures, inventories, and consumption trends is the closest thing to it, so trust me, there would have been a large problem if we didn't take over Capewell back then. Remember, they wanted out. Cooper was mislead on sales figures and decided on their own to leave when they did. All this is do***enented. The fact that we mfg. a complete line of nails when no one else will. is not only in our interest, but the horseshoers who use them as well.

As far as the Simonds situation goes. Simonds Industries was in the process of closing down some of their operation in the US. They were not maintaining equipment and getting ready to shut down or sell. They wanted to sell. It was just at the right time for Mustad. Simonds also sold other divisions to focus on their better performing divisions. We only bought the brand, the process and machinery, not the realestate so the machines had to be set up elsewhere. The new workers were brought here to train. I think that the Columbians would differ with you for calling them a third world country, in fact Columbia is not. The operation there centralizes other operations for Mustad. The machines have been completely refurbished and the goal is to produce rasps of equal and higher quality then before. The test rasps that I have used support that. The new name is Heller International. Historically, the best rasps 100 years ago were produced in Europe, American farriers preferred them to those made here.

If John is tuned in, no the new rasps will not be marked "Made in Columbia". They do not have to be individually marked, only the box, which is. Your info. about that happens to be wrong. For instance, the nails made in Columbia for Delta are not marked individually, only the box.

The Capewell situation of over 20 years ago is different from the Simonds deal now, so that is a bad comparision. Corporations do what they need to do to survive and prosper. Part of that is benevolence toward their customers, which Mustad Hoof Care has done more of then any other entity in our industry. It is probably impossible to do everything that pleases everyone, all the time. The globalization of manufacturing is occurring in every industry, in fact, our industry has resisted it longer than most. I will say it again, I have been involved with the Mustad group for over 30 years as their original farrier consultant. I have always pointed to the direction that benfits the horseshoers and there are many who would back me up on that. Our goal has always been to provide, quality, consistant, products at a fair price. The large prices increases in nails only happened due to a former faulty price structure, as I already explained. The price of St. Croix horseshoes has recently gone down by 15% due to new production efficiencies.

I hope some day we can continue this discussion over some beer and Bar-B Q.
And J. H. it is not likely that Mustad will ever go into the Bar B Q business, but if I had my way, I would.
To Brian R.-Thank you for your kind words.

Steve Kraus, CJF
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RE:Mustad's Latest Acquisition 20 Jun 2007 02:28 #83

  • anvilsteve
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I don't know why do***ented in my second paragraph keeps coming up with ***. sorry.
Steve Kraus
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RE:Mustad's Latest Acquisition 20 Jun 2007 02:41 #84

  • Jack Evers
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I think that the Columbians would differ with you for calling them a third world country, in fact Columbia is not.



Another pat on the back for Columbia -- I have traveled a great deal to many countries for both work and pleasure (I just came back from a vacation that included Germany, Luxenburg, Switzerland, France, Italy, Austria and Latvia) and Columbia was is one of my two favorite countries to date.

Jack

P.S.
Steve, the porn filter on this site will pick combinations of letters that it doesn't like from the interior of a longer word and the three letters removed from do***ent are such a combination.

Jack
Jack Evers CJF AFA#426

The best things about the good old days -- I wasn't good and I wasn't old.

The older I get, the more horses I shoe, the fewer things that I can absolutely, positively fix.
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RE:Mustad's Latest Acquisition 20 Jun 2007 11:55 #85

  • Tom Stovall CJF
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Steve Kraus, CJF in gray, deletia

I think that the Columbians would differ with you for calling them a third world country, in fact Columbia is not.

Back in the days of the Cold War, the term, "Third World", was applied to non-aligned countries; now, it's applied to countries that are underdeveloped or developing. Columbia most assuredly meets this criterion.

While I can understand how national pride might blind a Columbian to reality, an ongoing civil war, massive unemployment, corruption in government, extreme economic disparity between the haves and have nots, and the cottage industries of cocaine and kidnapping relegate Columbia to the status of Third World Country.

I hope some day we can continue this discussion over some beer and Bar-B Q.

If you ever eat the pork ribs at Gidding's City Meat Market, you'll want to stay in Texas. Sold by the pound, served on wax paper, fork optional - and you'll play hell spending $20.00 for a meal. Did I mention the ice cold Dos Equis?
Tom Stovall, CJF
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RE:Mustad's Latest Acquisition 20 Jun 2007 12:12 #86

  • Rick Burten
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Tom Stovall, CJF wrote:
Sold by the pound, served on wax paper, fork optional -
Uh-Oh Tom, now you've gone and done it. Before you know it it will be "Formerly Giddings, now Mustad's" and ribs will be sold individually. Forks will be available at an additional cost. :eek: :o :)
Rick Burten PF

In the immortal words of Ron White: "But let me tell you something, folks: You can't fix S-tupid. There's not a pill you can take; there's not a class you can go to. S-tupid is forever."
."


Je pense donc je suis
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RE:Mustad's Latest Acquisition 20 Jun 2007 13:37 #87

anvilsteve wrote:
Tom-
If John is tuned in, no the new rasps will not be marked "Made in Columbia". They do not have to be individually marked, only the box, which is. Your info. about that happens to be wrong. For instance, the nails made in Columbia for Delta are not marked individually, only the box.

Steve Kraus, CJF
G'Day Mr. Kraus

Not branding each and every rasp with the country-of-origin is a violation of USA import laws.

http://www.customs.ustreas.gov/linkhandler/cgov/toolbox/publications/trade/markingo.ctt/markingo.doc
John Zarzecny
Purveyor of Wood-Miller rasps.

"Politeness and respect won't cost you five cents, they are free to give"
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quote: My Dad
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RE:Mustad's Latest Acquisition 20 Jun 2007 17:01 #88

John Zarzecny wrote:
Not branding each and every rasp with the country-of-origin is a violation of USA import laws.

John,
Your legal opinion may not be the end of the discussion. You can make an argument that marking the box is sufficient because the end user usually buys the product by the box. Mustad could mark the box 'not labeled for individual sale' or have a clause with their distributors where they shouldn't sell the rasps individually. See excerpts from the link you provided below.

Cordell

Marking of Containers
Usual containers imported filled must be marked with the name of the country of origin of the contents of the usual container, unless the contents are marked with the country of origin and the usual containers can be readily opened for inspection of the contents.

What is a usual container?
The container in which an imported article will ordinarily reach the ultimate purchaser. Usual containers or holders are not required to be marked with their own origin when imported filled.

Usual containers, which are goods from a NAFTA country, are not required to be marked with their own origin, whether or not filled.

What articles are excepted from marking by 19 U.S.C. 1304?
D. When the container of an article reasonably indicates the article’s origin; that is, the marked container reaches the ultimate purchaser unopened;

specific exception:Nails, spikes, and staples

When an article is not required to be marked with the country of origin, does the immediate container have to be marked?
Yes, unless that article is excepted from marking under clause (F), (G), or (H) indicated above, or the article is specifically not subject to the statutory marking requirements of 19 U.S.C. 1304.
Cordell Rogers
CPA, MAcc, not yet CF
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RE:Mustad's Latest Acquisition 20 Jun 2007 17:39 #89

G'Day Mr. Rogers

I offer no legal opinion, only fact based on first hand experience.

Wood-Miller has already been down this road with US Customs and Border Protection.

In my considered opinion, within the next 6 to 12 months (maybe sooner) all Mustad rasps imported into the United States will be branded with country-of-origin.

Best Regards
John Zarzecny
Purveyor of Wood-Miller rasps.

"Politeness and respect won't cost you five cents, they are free to give"
"I'd rather be one hour early, than one minute late"
quote: My Dad
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RE:Mustad's Latest Acquisition 21 Jun 2007 11:22 #90

  • ray steele
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For what it may be worth,

I can tell you that recently, 3 months, I rcd. a load of aprons from India, they were not marked with the country of origin as they were supposed to be and could not be sold until they were marked in the prescribed manner to meet customs requirements. I have the signed papers from customs of what they required and the signed doc u ment of compliance.

The requirement..... in the inspectors words paraphrased, get some sticky paper from the stationary store, type on it Made in India, because each apron comes in a cloth and plastic bag,you may attach the Made in India label to each bag. Not necessary, according to this inspector to mark the apron it self so long as the apron is sold in the bag.

I have not looked in a long time,but, St Croix al. shoes used to be marked Made in Columbia on the bottom of the box, not each shoe itself. I mark each box of RayGuangs, Made in China, at least in two places, by placing it and contact address on lables, but not each shoe.

Regards

Ray Steele
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