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TOPIC: Why is AFA membership so low?

RE:Why is AFA membership so low? 27 Apr 2007 11:03 #31

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Rick Burten wrote:
Stop the presses!

When did this most fortuitous cir***stance happen? Why was I kept in the dark?:eek" :p
Where have you been? Didn't you see the "press release" in PF mag?
What caused this radical change in direction? Regardless, welcome to the AFA Tom! Glad you are here.
Perhaps the growing interest in promoting certification combined with the prospect of eliminating forging competitions - possibly handing that aspect over to the WCB . . . I've got no crystal ball, but those two things have given me a reason to reconsider my own membership.
I for one am glad to have you with us. I hope the leadership is wise enough to tap your multi-faceted talents and lend open ear to your suggestions/input.
Far as I know he has been making the same suggestion for many years. "Promote the AFA certification program to Hortense Horseowner."

I left the AFA because of their failure to promote the certification program. IMNTBCHO that failure was a deliberate choice on the part of the previous leadership. It remains to be seen whether or not the current leadership will make that same choice. So far I see no evidence that the AFAs priorities regarding promoting certification have changed. Until such evidence manifests itself clearly, I will remain a non member.
Perhaps you can become our "Poster Boy(Man)" and spokesman. The AFA could do a helluvalot worse, and IMNTBCHO, no better.
Perhaps they will forgive him for promoting certification without permission? If Mr. Stovall is able to get away with that, I will re-up my dues.
Tom Bloomer
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Here's the deal. I'm trying to keep it simple.
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RE:Why is AFA membership so low? 27 Apr 2007 11:14 #32

Dick Fanguy wrote:
Ron,

I thought this was about why the AFA membership is so low. If you want to discuss the interworkings of the AFA, contact me and I will be glad to discuss them with you. I would take too long and I don't like to type that much. Minutes of all EC meetings can be obtained from the office.

One of the reasons I think that our membership is lower than we want it is because of all the negative comments made on this web sight and others about the AFA. I think that we would have to hire a full time spokesman to address all the negative press we get. Some may be deserved, but most of it is just sour g****s from people that can't handle being happy.

These are my thoughs and do not reflect the other members of the EC or the BoD.

That is funny, we have witnessed new membership or members retaining membership because of this forum. This forum or website has done more for communications than anything else I have seen out of the AFA. Discussing the inner workings of the AFA is precisely the point. Gaining a better understanding of how things work internaly and what membership and non members want is key.

I am not sure if I agree with Tom S. as to why the whineing comes about. I do not see it as whineing. If someone is willing to express an opinion negative or positive this is called feeback. You can call it what you want whineing, complaining or trashing the bottom line, it is feedback that many top corportations are trying to figure out how to get from there employees. I do not recall anyone trashing certification. Many have questioned the standards. Primarily why do we shoe to a standard that we all agree we would not do day to day. My understanding on this is much clearer thanks to people like Tom S. I had a hard time wraping my brain around that concept and I see some farriers still do. I failed my first attempt at the CF cert. I am glad I finaly just went for it pass or fail prepared or not. It was like a clinic, learned from it and met great people.

Trashing the AFA goes way back prior to the internet. I recall a lot of negative comments about the AFA talking to different farriers in person. This still happens. This is from farriers that have never been on the interenet, do not even own a computer. Go figure that one out. They also seem to know the innerworkings and politics that have occured over the past few years.
Phil Armitage, CF
AFA member 7480

"Anyone who proposes to do good must not expect people to roll stones out of his way, but must accept his lot calmly if they even roll a few more upon it." Albert Schweitzer
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RE:Why is AFA membership so low? 27 Apr 2007 12:02 #33

Dick Fanguy wrote:
I thought this was about why the AFA membership is so low.
Dick,

IMO, the questions that I have asked and the lack of a substantive response go directly to why the AFA has membership problems.

The membership does not like being treated like mushrooms. It really makes them angry to be treated like children who are unable to handle the truth and it really resents leaders that are unwilling to take the good and bad reactions to their decisions. The membership is tired of having smoke blown up their behinds and being told that it is sunshine. Finally the membership is tired of having its leaders use the internet for their purposes when it suits their needs, (IE the WCB proposal debate) and then whine about having to answer difficult questions when it doesn't suit them. This media is a two edged cutting instrement, if you want to be credible using it you need to take it both ways.
Dick Fanguy wrote:
If you want to discuss the interworkings of the AFA, contact me and I will be glad to discuss them with you.
I have contacted you, here in the open with the very questions that I have been asked by others privately. There is no reason for you to not answer them here where everyone can see the answers.
Dick Fanguy wrote:
Minutes of all EC meetings can be obtained from the office.
Does this mean that the ban that Mr. Ferguson placed during the last month or so of the campaign on the office responding to my requests has been lifted?
Dick Fanguy wrote:
One of the reasons I think that our membership is lower than we want it is because of all the negative comments made on this web sight and others about the AFA. I think that we would have to hire a full time spokesman to address all the negative press we get.
Perhaps you/the EC should remember that one of the functions of the ED is in fact to be the full time spokesman for the AFA and direct him to do his job?
Dick Fanguy wrote:
These are my thoughs and do not reflect the other members of the EC or the BoD.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts, now would you just answer the questions?

Dick, here is another very direct question about the membership numbers. What are the current number of members in the regular and lifetime member categories? And what were they as of the end of our annual convention?
Ronald E. Kramedjian, RJF

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RE:Why is AFA membership so low? 27 Apr 2007 13:02 #34

  • Rick Burten
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Dick Fanguy wrote:
We have made no changes in the way the association is set up. We had a CPA come in and give us advice on what we can and cannot do as a 501:c3 corp.
I'm confused, why a CPA and not corporate counsel?
We have been intouch with leagle councis and he will advise us as to what would be the advantage to the membership of such a move. All this will be reported to the membership after we know the facts and can make an educated decission.
I'm glad we are looking in to this. My concern/issue is that this information had to be "dragged" out of an officer. rather than this information being made available by whatever means necessary, to the membership as it developed. Here again we see the relative lack of communications and transparency issues rearing their ugly heads.
Much has been done and is being done to make the membership more aware of what is going on.
What has been and is being done? The web site remains, generally speaking, prehistoric. I realize that work is underway to change this, but the effort seems to be moving forward with the speed of molasses flowing up hill on a -30 degree January day. The news letter, while "chatty", has a paucity of real information. The latest issue of the newsletter contains, for example, a treasurer's report that is so lacking in "meat and potatoes" that, as I said before, would even insult the intelligence of a vaunted Fluff Bunny.
As far as your question about the finances, I suggest you contact John Bloombach.
No sir, we should not have to contact Mr. Blombach. That information should have been in the newsletter and on the website.
He can answer any question you have.
Then he should do so, in public and without prompting.
He has been trying to clean up all the book keeping errors made by the many different staff members that have gone through the office.
How many people does this include? And, why is John doing this? This is a job for the CPA, especially at this point when things seem to be FUBAR.
We have a good staff at the moment and hope they will stay with us.
Well, if we treat them right and give them the leadership they should have, then one would think they would.
Keep working for the good of the AFA.
Well, that has always been my intention and I think that it is the intention of every member of the AFA.

I want to say one more thing. Merely agreeing with the actions and directives of those in power in the AFA is not "support". That's just being a bobble headed "Yes" man/woman. That is not the nature of our membership. We want to be informed, have an opportunity to discuss, argue, agree, disagree, whatever and then, if we(the membership) find the leadership suggestions to be beneficial, we'll support them. Otherwise, we are going to be vocal and insistent that the leadership pay attention to what its membership wants and not go off on some tangent of its own choosing.

If the leadership wants the help of its members, then perhaps it needs to identify the individual strengths its members have, and utilize them. Far too often I have heard members say things like "They never ask me" or "I offered to help but they turned a deaf ear towards me" and other more colorful statements of irritation, dismay, anger and disaffection. You want to know why our membership retention is so low? Well there it is.

As for the question of health insurance. I know we tried a program and it failed. OK, so why are we not trying again? And if we are trying again, how come no one knows about it? How was the BWFA able to get a health insurance program through AFLAC? I mention this because health insurance seems to be a subject of great concern for many of our members.

One of the brightest, most forward thinking, intuitive and intellectual guys I know, has just joined the AFA. Has anyone contacted him and gotten him involved?

Dick,

I commend you for coming here and trying to get information out to us. Good on you! But the effort has to be stepped up. The AFA leadership has to anticipate better and respond more quickly and forthrightly.

Rick
Rick Burten PF

In the immortal words of Ron White: "But let me tell you something, folks: You can't fix S-tupid. There's not a pill you can take; there's not a class you can go to. S-tupid is forever."
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RE:Why is AFA membership so low? 27 Apr 2007 13:06 #35

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Tom B., Tom S., and anyone else interested.

Here is an excerpt from an email sent to me from Dick Fanguy.
"As to your comments on marketing the AFA certification, the EC is placing
this as our top priority. Unfortunatly, we have a lot of house cleaning to
do with the magazine and getting committees back up and running, we are too busy to get all the information out that I know the members want to hear.
We have to walk before we can run. All efforts in the past to market
certification were very weak and non productive. We are going to get an
effective marketing program up and running as soon as we can. We are
talking to professional in the field of marketing. We have wasted enough
money on non-productive advertising."

As a side note as of yesterday I have been appointed as a member of the Finance Committee for the AFA.
Gary Miller, PF

Ride hard, shoot straight, and always speak the truth.
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RE:Why is AFA membership so low? 27 Apr 2007 13:10 #36

Gary_Miller wrote:
As a side note as of yesterday I have been appointed as a member of the Finance Committee for the AFA.
Gary,

Congratulations!
Ronald E. Kramedjian, RJF

Visit the Guild of Professional Farriers, Inc. Website

"What is popular is not always right; what is right is not always popular." Unknown

"In matters of style swim with the current; In matters of principle, stand like a...
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RE:Why is AFA membership so low? 27 Apr 2007 13:11 #37

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Gary_Miller wrote:
As a side note as of yesterday I have been appointed as a member of the Finance Committee for the AFA.
Glad to hear that!. Hope the leadership listens to what you have to say.

Rick
Rick Burten PF

In the immortal words of Ron White: "But let me tell you something, folks: You can't fix S-tupid. There's not a pill you can take; there's not a class you can go to. S-tupid is forever."
."


Je pense donc je suis
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RE:Why is AFA membership so low? 27 Apr 2007 13:20 #38

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Ron,

We do have a new ED, Jon Bonci, and he is working very hard to come up to speed. He has a great resume and work ethic. He has the people skills that I think will be an asset to the AFA. As of right now, he is busy getting the office in order and learning all that he can about this association. It is my hope that when he gets up to speed that he will be the full time spokesman for the AFA.

As far as getting information from the office, you abused that during the campaign. You had staff members looking up so much information that you wanted for personal gain, they did not have the time to get their work done.

There should not be any information, short of personel information, that a member could not get from the AFA. It is my hope that we can get the Web Sight set up with an archive with all the information you or any other member would want. You claim to be an IT person. Write up a plan and send it to the office. Be part of the solution, not part of the problem.

You asked about membership numbers for reg. and life members. I will have that answer for you today.
Dick Fanguy, CJF
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For every problem there is always a solution that is simple, obvious, and wrong. Mark Twain

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RE:Why is AFA membership so low? 27 Apr 2007 13:30 #39

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Ronald E. Kramedjian in gray, deletia

IMO, the questions that I have asked and the lack of a substantive response go directly to why the AFA has membership problems.

Your premise presumes the necessity of answering your questions when none exists; it also presumes the AFA has "membership problems" when none have been demonstrated existent.

The membership does not like being treated like mushrooms. It really makes them angry to be treated like children who are unable to handle the truth and it really resents leaders that are unwilling to take the good and bad reactions to their decisions. The membership is tired of having smoke blown up their behinds and being told that it is sunshine. Finally the membership is tired of having its leaders use the internet for their purposes when it suits their needs, (IE the WCB proposal debate) and then whine about having to answer difficult questions when it doesn't suit them. This media is a two edged cutting instrement, if you want to be credible using it you need to take it both ways.

Whoa! It appears you've appointed yourself spokesman for unnamed legions of allegedly disgruntled AFA members in an effort to add weight to your argument, a tactic that might blow'em away in some places, but will encounter tough sledding on this forum. In reality, your diatribe is merely an ad populum fallacy in which you're attempting to advance your personal agenda by claiming endorsement of your position by popular attitudes. Spokesman? Nossir, you have no such mandate. With all due respect, you are most assuredly not a spokesman for the AFA's membership and damn sure not for me, you are an unsuccessful candidate for office who was beaten in a recent election and it appears that popular attitudes and your agenda parted company at the ballot box.

I have contacted you, here in the open with the very questions that I have been asked by others privately. There is no reason for you to not answer them here where everyone can see the answers.

Alas, there is no compelling reason for anyone to answer your questions, here or on any other forum, unless they choose to do so.

Does this mean that the ban that Mr. Ferguson placed during the last month or so of the campaign on the office responding to my requests has been lifted?

Perhaps you should ask yourself if the AFA office has any reason to respond to your requests.

Perhaps you/the EC should remember that one of the functions of the ED is in fact to be the full time spokesman for the AFA and direct him to do his job?

Since the ED serves at the pleasure of the BOD, your question would be better directed to that body, as well as any complaints you might have about his job peformance.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts, now would you just answer the questions?

Why should he?

Dick, here is another very direct question about the membership numbers. What are the current number of members in the regular and lifetime member categories?

Since your question has to do with dues, perhaps your question would be better addressed to the treasurer.

And what were they as of the end of our annual convention?

Whatever they were, they increased by one about March first. :)
Tom Stovall, CJF
"The only foolish question is the one left unasked."
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RE:Why is AFA membership so low? 27 Apr 2007 13:33 #40

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Rick Burten wrote:
Glad to hear that!. Hope the leadership listens to what you have to say.

Rick
If the leadership won't the membership will. :D
Gary Miller, PF

Ride hard, shoot straight, and always speak the truth.
Gunfighter Motto

"Our level of quality is how well our eye can see it." (Eric Russell, Oct 2008, Horseshoes.com)

"Discover what it is that makes you passionate then grab a firm...
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RE:Why is AFA membership so low? 27 Apr 2007 13:33 #41

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To All,

Don't shoot the panio player, he is playing as fast as he can!

Give the EC and the BoD a little time. I think you will like what we are trying to do. We are going to market the AFA. With men like Tom Stovall helping, I look for great results.
Dick Fanguy, CJF
225-315-1100
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For every problem there is always a solution that is simple, obvious, and wrong. Mark Twain

No man can cause more grief than that one clinging blindly to the vices of his ancestors. William Faulkner
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RE:Why is AFA membership so low? 27 Apr 2007 13:39 #42

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Gary_Miller wrote:
As a side note as of yesterday I have been appointed as a member of the Finance Committee for the AFA.
Good. Then you can report on the budget line item assigned to promoting certification to horse owners!
Tom Bloomer
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302-222-6404


Here's the deal. I'm trying to keep it simple.
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RE:Why is AFA membership so low? 27 Apr 2007 14:14 #43

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Rick Burten wrote:
. . .How was the BWFA able to get a health insurance program through AFLAC?
The BWFA does NOT have a health insurance program.

Here is what they do have - cut and paste from befa web site:
• Personal Accident & Cancer Insurance Policies
• Injured Farrier Fund
• Pension Plan
• Web Enabled Farrier Referral
• Web Package to Promote Your Farrier Business
• In Office Referral of Farriers
• Farrier Testing & Certification Program (Designed & Implemented by BWFA Master Educator Schools)
• Hoofcare Help & Support from Master Farriers (By Calling the Hoofcare Hotlines)
• Quarterly News Bulletin Offering Updates & Education Regarding the Farrier Industry
• Access to the Farriers’ National Research Center (Offering Continuing Education Courses Year Round)
• Access to the National Equine Hoof & Research Foundation Inc.
• Opportunity to Participate in the Annual BWFA Convention (Promoting Continuing Education and Research within the Farrier Industry).
• Access to & Participation in Horse Handling and Horse Owner Clinics Across the U.S.
• You have an Advocate for YOU……….An Organization that Believes in the Farrier and the Work you do. The BWFA Promotes the Local Farrier!.


There is no HEALTH insurance program on the list. I've pointed this out before, but here it is again: The insurance laws in some states (specifically NJ) prohibit professional organizations from offering group insurance.

'nuther thing is that it is likely that many farriers, myself included, get their medical insurance from their spouse what is employed by a company that offers group insurance benefits. It would be difficult for any farrier organization to get an insurance rate that would compete with corporate benefits.

If anything the local state chapters might be the place to address the issue on a state-by-state basis. At least then members would be able to get group insurance in the states what allow professional organizations to offer it.

When I worked for a company in PA and lived in DE, I had a different policy than the empoloyees what were PA residents - which was different than the policy for NJ residents. So even in the corporate world, the group insurance is a different situation in each state. Changing it would take an act of congress. Maybe Hillary will fix it . . . :)
Tom Bloomer
http://blackburnforge.com
302-222-6404


Here's the deal. I'm trying to keep it simple.
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RE:Why is AFA membership so low? 27 Apr 2007 18:45 #44

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danverschild wrote:
IS the AFA membership really so low?

When I was in the NCTE (National Council of Teachers of English), our membership numbers ran just over 50,000. Yet the supply and demand numbers put out by the Department of Education indicated there were more than 500,000 English teachers.
.

Danvers,
I have never heard of the NCTE. I believe the "big gorilla" of educator associations is the NEA- with a membership of 3.2 MILLION members. That makes the ratio of farriers in the AFA comparitively low (I would guess) by comparison.
P
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RE:Why is AFA membership so low? 27 Apr 2007 19:00 #45

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Ron,

The answer to your question is:

2,781 Reg. members

92 Life members

148 Student members

_______

3,031 members at this time (4-27-07)

The office will get the other information when they have time and I will post it for you or anyone else that is interested
Dick Fanguy, CJF
225-315-1100
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