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Poll: Would licensing help our professional image?

o, things are fine as they currently stand 45 52.3%
es, licensing would lend to our credibility 41 47.7%
Total number of voters: 37 See more
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TOPIC: Would Farrier Licensing Help?

RE:Would Farrier Licensing Help? 26 Jul 2007 01:41 #271

George,
The AFT travels to England, thus a CJF credential is required BY LAW to touch a horse...that is the root of the requirement, not some class distinction evident only to a mind of Marxist bend ;) :rolleyes:
Besides, if someone can make the AFT, they could pass the CJF test hungover, with no sleep working cold on a flat horned anvil... why would they not aquire the accreditation?
Jason
"Always listen to the experts. They tell you what can't be done, and why. Then do it." Robert Heinlien
Jason Maki CJF, RJF
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RE:Would Farrier Licensing Help? 26 Jul 2007 02:35 #272

  • Tom Stovall CJF
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Phil Armitage in gray, deletia

Re: The official line is, "All our horses are doing fine: Who're you gonna believe, the patrolman riding the horse or your lying eyes?"

So who is lying Pete Ramey or the Patrolman? Maybe instead of the Match we can get together and do something for the Houston Mounted Patrol. :)

I figure the cop riding the head-bobbing lame horse in the Reliant Center parking lot was lying. Either that, or his butt was not educated enough to know he was riding a crippled horse.
Tom Stovall, CJF
"The only foolish question is the one left unasked."
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RE:Would Farrier Licensing Help? 26 Jul 2007 02:41 #273

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George Geist wrote:
With the possible exception of the British, it is not required to work, for this reason I say no legal standing, however, you're implications that the Union test is political is a real case of the pot calling the kettle black. George

Denmark has now got a law under way. This is the reason I am now involved in getting licenced over here. It spreads like a cancer. Someday it will cross the pond.
Mikel Dawson, RJF

(Denmark)
What part of "NO" don't you understand!!

Caution: Watch for hoof in mouth disease!!!
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RE:Would Farrier Licensing Help? 26 Jul 2007 02:45 #274

Tom Stovall, CJF wrote:
Phil Armitage in gray, deletia

Re: The official line is, "All our horses are doing fine: Who're you gonna believe, the patrolman riding the horse or your lying eyes?"

So who is lying Pete Ramey or the Patrolman? Maybe instead of the Match we can get together and do something for the Houston Mounted Patrol. :)

I figure the cop riding the head-bobbing lame horse in the Reliant Center parking lot was lying. Either that, or his butt was not educated enough to know he was riding a crippled horse.

LOL, to think he/she also carries a weapon. Will we have time to see these horses?
Phil Armitage, CF
AFA member 7480

"Anyone who proposes to do good must not expect people to roll stones out of his way, but must accept his lot calmly if they even roll a few more upon it." Albert Schweitzer
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RE:Would Farrier Licensing Help? 26 Jul 2007 03:08 #275

  • Tom Stovall CJF
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George Geist in gray, deletia

Again more hearsay. Harry Patton loved the Union as that article shows. Is a flimsy argument.

No Mr. Geist, it's a logical argument and Harry Patton was a plater's plater. Furthermore, an eye witness account is not "hearsay" as the term implies rumor.

Even if true, 1987! 20 years ago! For crying out loud, I hear whining when I mention stuff the AFA did last year as it being ancient history. Get over it already. Nobody from that time and place is even in the Union anymore.

If you want to crow about the JHU's historical roots, you don't get to pick and choose what part of the wash gets hung out on the line for folks to see. In point of fact, the JHU's testing procedure has a history of unfair administration.

Somewhere in my office, I've got a bid sheet from the City of Houston in which a CJF was a requirement for submitting a bid.

Again for a political job


LMAO! Since every state racing commission consists of political apointees; if one works in any parimutuel jurisdiction, one works at the pleasure of a politician. Seems like a good union man would know that. I've heard a portion of your union dues go to support political candidates. Is that true?

Nossir, the suggestion that the JHU test is exclusionary is a reality check for anyone who touts a good 'ol boy club as a substitute for individualism.

Is not a club but a bona fide labor union.

And the difference between the JHU and any other good 'ol boy's club is? Spare me any union nonsense, just tell me whether or not every union member working on union tracks has taken and passed the JHU test.

2nd oldest in the country. I should hope that a man such as yourself would know the difference between a labor union and a social club

Unless every JHU member plating horses has taken and passed the JHU's test, then I'd opine the JHU is more of a social club than a bona fide union of workers united for a common cause. Again: Has every union member working of union tracks taken and passed the JHU test?

Anybody who wants to google union corruption will find plenty. They'd be hard pressed to find anything involving the horseshoers though.

You might start with the Harry Patton interview.

While your at it though in all fairness also google corruption in business...

C'mon Mr. Geist, what other folks do or have done does not excuse or mitigate the JHU's history of exclusionary testing procedures. For some reason, you haven't answered the question about whether or not every union member working on union tracks has taken and passed the JHU test: Why is that? :)
Tom Stovall, CJF
"The only foolish question is the one left unasked."
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RE:Would Farrier Licensing Help? 26 Jul 2007 05:06 #276

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ladyblacksmith wrote:
You disrespected me when you wouldn't engage and "listen" to me, and ask questions, even if we diagreed on a lot of the issues; at least, we would talk about it. It is good to listen to someone else's ideas and thoughts on the situation and another way of doing things when it comes to our trade. It's called being open-minded to new ideas and thinking outside the box.
Also; I WAS nice, at first; then when you guys "came after me!", well, you picked the wrong person, and I was going to let you have it with both barrels.
I will fight to the death if necessary to do what is right! You might not like me in this trade, but I am here to stay, whether you like it or not. I will continue to fight to make things right and better in our
You forgot to thank the fellows above who pointed out how you could save about a thousand dollars a month on health insurance.
Bill

A rightous man regardeth the life of his beast. Proverbs 12:10
I don't give a damn for a man who can only spell a word one way. Mark Twain
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RE:Would Farrier Licensing Help? 26 Jul 2007 05:21 #277

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Tom and George,
This discusion of union tests and the late and truly great Harry Patton, reminded me of this:
His wonderful wife Ada Gates Patton, when asked by someone (at a practice clinic) about how people react if they fail the AFA certification, said that she was the first shoer in history to burst into tears when she failed a union test. Had us all grinnin' real big.
Bill

A rightous man regardeth the life of his beast. Proverbs 12:10
I don't give a damn for a man who can only spell a word one way. Mark Twain
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RE:Would Farrier Licensing Help? 26 Jul 2007 10:25 #278

Bill Adams wrote:
You forgot to thank the fellows above who pointed out how you could save about a thousand dollars a month on health insurance.
Bill


They never said WHO, WHAT, OR WHERE, and if it's available in my state; and our state has some rules about insurance laws.
Also, with "NO Living Family Members", except a brother who lives far away, who can not help in "any" way (he has his own problems); I have to pay day care with is expensive (state law M-F 10 hrs only!), and have only a few friends who can from time to time (if not working that day, themselves) will babysit my child, when I shoe the more dangerous horses at the training track (like this weekend). Most of the time, my child comes with me; which limits me to whom I can shoe for, because most people do not want you to bring your children. So you can see my situation.

PS. I had a company job till it went bankrupt and I lost my 401K and full pension! It's called downsizing.
________
White Widow Seeds
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RE:Would Farrier Licensing Help? 26 Jul 2007 10:53 #279

Tom Stovall, CJF]George Geist in gray, deletia

Again more hearsay. Harry Patton loved the Union as that article shows. Is a flimsy argument.

No Mr. Geist, it's a logical argument and Harry Patton was a plater's plater. Furthermore, an eye witness account is not "hearsay" as the term implies rumor.

Even if true, 1987! 20 years ago! For crying out loud, I hear whining when I mention stuff the AFA did last year as it being ancient history. Get over it already. Nobody from that time and place is even in the Union anymore.

If you want to crow about the JHU's historical roots, you don't get to pick and choose what part of the wash gets hung out on the line for folks to see. In point of fact, the JHU's testing procedure has a history of unfair administration.

Somewhere in my office, I've got a bid sheet from the City of Houston in which a CJF was a requirement for submitting a bid.

Again for a political job


LMAO! Since every state racing commission consists of political apointees wrote:
Nossir, the suggestion that the JHU test is exclusionary is a reality check for anyone who touts a good 'ol boy club as a substitute for individualism.[/color]

Is not a club but a bona fide labor union.

And the difference between the JHU and any other good 'ol boy's club is? Spare me any union nonsense, just tell me whether or not every union member working on union tracks has taken and passed the JHU test.

2nd oldest in the country. I should hope that a man such as yourself would know the difference between a labor union and a social club

Unless every JHU member plating horses has taken and passed the JHU's test, then I'd opine the JHU is more of a social club than a bona fide union of workers united for a common cause. Again: Has every union member working of union tracks taken and passed the JHU test?

Anybody who wants to google union corruption will find plenty. They'd be hard pressed to find anything involving the horseshoers though.

You might start with the Harry Patton interview.

While your at it though in all fairness also google corruption in business...

C'mon Mr. Geist, what other folks do or have done does not excuse or mitigate the JHU's history of exclusionary testing procedures. For some reason, you haven't answered the question about whether or not every union member working on union tracks has taken and passed the JHU test: Why is that? :)

Tom it's Philadelphia Park, and Suffox Downs that is Union. At Philadelphia Park; if you are not Union and you are from another track and only going in to shoe a horse for a particular race in the receiving barn, than you can do so freely; as long as; you hold a recent plater's licence from another track in the US. But, if you want to work there, and have trainer's hire you there on the grounds; then you must take the test.

Also, some of the other tracks make you take the test along with the regular track test. Stewarts at Laural Racetrack and the Maryland racing commission pulled that one in the early 1990's.
But, now more than ever; more and more tracks are considering, and going back to the old test. It is the state racing commission that is wanting this now.
I have talked to some trainers and owners; and they want something like the old test back in play as well. It is they who are complaining and they have the clout behind them when it comes to the racing commission.
Basically, you take a 20 question eassy test involving shoeing regulations on the track and lameness; then a vet test; and then the actual plating of the racehorse which you have 1 hour to complete, including pulling the old shoes off!!! and must be shod a certain way to pass which is up to the track stewart and that is very subjective. Now they want to have you do the JHU test on top of that as well. To make sure you know how to swage. That is what I had to do to get my licence back in 1994.

see ya
________
Vapir vapormatic review
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RE:Would Farrier Licensing Help? 26 Jul 2007 11:10 #280

You know what....? There is no being nice to you.... You think everyone is out to get you... WHY?
I have coverage for three and I'm 40 yrs old (the policy is based on the oldest in family) at $475.00 per month..... plus other membership benifits to include wage protection if I am injured and cannot work. If you want info just ask....

Does this help you read for context? :rolleyes:

Here is a Link.... http://www.nase.org/

Or here is the PA and MD Rep - Richard Kuhn - This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

As a single dad I also had to pay for day care about 9500.00 per year along with the child support I pay for the children from my first marriage 500.00 per month. Get a grip, life is hard. :mad:

PS I never said I disagreed with you nor did I say I wouldnt listen to you. As far as askin' you questions, why would I? I don't know you and every one who you have communicated here with, you seem to have P.O.ed :eek:

So here is I stand personally....
I DO NOT want to be a part of a union or ANY Federal handout program.
We have too many people suckin the government teat.

I DO NOT want to pay any entity a fee or due so I can go to work.
I actually already have to do this every year when I belly up to the IRS and pay my "tab"

I WILL BE/AM responsible for myself and my family with God's help and a little hard work on my part.
It's a good thing God likes me....

I WILL/DO set myself to the highest standard so that I ensure my own professional security.
Pride and knowledge in your profession goes a long way.

I WILL/DO continue my education and skillset development in order to progress within the profession and payscale.
Read, study, listen, watch, learn. clinics, discussions, symposiums, conventions.

I WILL be prepared to make that jump IF/WHEN licencing becomes a requrement, but will do so begrudgingly (it will be another one of those things we ALL have to get through.)
Make your check payable to the .....

I hope this sets things straight. I mean no disrespect to you, I'm just not with your program. As I said before, good luck with that..... :cool:

Regards,
Brian R. Purrington
This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
www.wellshodhorses.com
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RE:Would Farrier Licensing Help? 26 Jul 2007 21:26 #281

Thank you I will look into it.

Hope everything works out for you, your life will be good to you.
Just remember ....you don't know the rest of the story...? and we will leave it to that.
________
Alaska Dispensary
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RE:Would Farrier Licensing Help? 26 Jul 2007 22:10 #282

  • Tom Stovall CJF
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Jason Maki in gray, deletia

Besides, if someone can make the AFT, they could pass the CJF test hungover, with no sleep working cold on a flat horned anvil... why would they not aquire the accreditation?

I know of a fellow who was a helluva hand in the fire, had a great eye, and nearly always went from the anvil to the foot with a shoe that was ready to nail on - and, he could nail one up, clinch, and finish before Bob got the news. He made the AFT without breaking a sweat and finished the CJF practical shoeing in about an hour - but the written gave him fits and almost kept him from going to the UK.

If it ain't one damn thing it's another. :)
Tom Stovall, CJF
"The only foolish question is the one left unasked."
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RE:Would Farrier Licensing Help? 26 Jul 2007 23:04 #283

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ladyblacksmith in gray, deletia

Tom it's Philadelphia Park, and Suffox Downs that is Union. At Philadelphia Park; if you are not Union and you are from another track and only going in to shoe a horse for a particular race in the receiving barn, than you can do so freely; as long as; you hold a recent plater's licence from another track in the US. But, if you want to work there, and have trainer's hire you there on the grounds; then you must take the test.

What happens if a trainer from Texas (a right-to-work state) wants to hire a Texas plater to do his barn in Philadelphia? Does the Penn SRC recognize a Texas plater's license (i.e., through reciprocity?), or would a Texas licensee be required to pass the JHU test in order to obtain a Penn plater's license? If, through reciprocity or other means, a Texas plater obtains a Penn plater's license, who mandates he must take the JHU test before working at the track? The JHU? Track management? The SRC?

Also, some of the other tracks make you take the test along with the regular track test. Stewarts at Laural Racetrack and the Maryland racing commission pulled that one in the early 1990's.

In my experience, platers work at the pleasure of the SRC and track stewards. Only God has more power than a track steward, and I sometimes doubt they'd give Jesus a break.

But, now more than ever; more and more tracks are considering, and going back to the old test. It is the state racing commission that is wanting this now.

Funny, it was recently reported on this forum that KY just dropped all testing requirements, as has AK. To my knowledge, TX, OK, CO, NM, KS, LA, SD, MT, and NE don't have any testing requirements, just stewards' permission and a state license.

I have talked to some trainers and owners; and they want something like the old test back in play as well. It is they who are complaining and they have the clout behind them when it comes to the racing commission.

I still know a few horsemen and none of them gives a damn about testing or unions. There are no secrets on the backside: Platers who are hands stay covered up; those who can't shoe a horse, starve.

Basically, you take a 20 question eassy test involving shoeing regulations on the track and lameness; then a vet test; and then the actual plating of the racehorse which you have 1 hour to complete, including pulling the old shoes off!!!

I've never been particularly fast, but I've always thought that 30 minutes was plenty of time to plate a runner.

and must be shod a certain way to pass which is up to the track stewart and that is very subjective. Now they want to have you do the JHU test on top of that as well. To make sure you know how to swage. That is what I had to do to get my licence back in 1994.

I couldn't swage my way out of a wet paper sack, but I could probably still turn a shoe if somebody held a gun to my head. I got my first license in a LA in 1973 and I passed the AFA Journeyman Test the first time it was offered in Texas, in 1983.

Damn! I'm getting old. :)
Tom Stovall, CJF
"The only foolish question is the one left unasked."
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RE:Would Farrier Licensing Help? 27 Jul 2007 00:39 #284

Tom Stovall, CJF]ladyblacksmith in gray, deletia

Tom it's Philadelphia Park, and Suffox Downs that is Union. At Philadelphia Park wrote:

What happens if a trainer from Texas (a right-to-work state) wants to hire a Texas plater to do his barn in Philadelphia? Does the Penn SRC recognize a Texas plater's license (i.e., through reciprocity?), or would a Texas licensee be required to pass the JHU test in order to obtain a Penn plater's license? If, through reciprocity or other means, a Texas plater obtains a Penn plater's license, who mandates he must take the JHU test before working at the track? The JHU? Track management? The SRC?

Also, some of the other tracks make you take the test along with the regular track test. Stewarts at Laural Racetrack and the Maryland racing commission pulled that one in the early 1990's.

In my experience, platers work at the pleasure of the SRC and track stewards. Only God has more power than a track steward, and I sometimes doubt they'd give Jesus a break.

But, now more than ever; more and more tracks are considering, and going back to the old test. It is the state racing commission that is wanting this now.

Funny, it was recently reported on this forum that KY just dropped all testing requirements, as has AK. To my knowledge, TX, OK, CO, NM, KS, LA, SD, MT, and NE don't have any testing requirements, just stewards' permission and a state license.

I have talked to some trainers and owners; and they want something like the old test back in play as well. It is they who are complaining and they have the clout behind them when it comes to the racing commission.

I still know a few horsemen and none of them gives a damn about testing or unions. There are no secrets on the backside: Platers who are hands stay covered up; those who can't shoe a horse, starve.

Basically, you take a 20 question eassy test involving shoeing regulations on the track and lameness; then a vet test; and then the actual plating of the racehorse which you have 1 hour to complete, including pulling the old shoes off!!!

I've never been particularly fast, but I've always thought that 30 minutes was plenty of time to plate a runner.

and must be shod a certain way to pass which is up to the track stewart and that is very subjective. Now they want to have you do the JHU test on top of that as well. To make sure you know how to swage. That is what I had to do to get my licence back in 1994.

I couldn't swage my way out of a wet paper sack, but I could probably still turn a shoe if somebody held a gun to my head. I got my first license in a LA in 1973 and I passed the AFA Journeyman Test the first time it was offered in Texas, in 1983.

Damn! I'm getting old. :)
Damn! I'm getting old too!...........too old!!!......and very old indeed.!!!

I find out today from someone coming in from Florida, that the State was going to, were trying, or did pass a law that a farrier could only put on a flat shoe, and if it needed clips, pads, wedges, ect; they had to get permission and a vet's perscription to the horse that way, but ONLY if the vet though that was the way to shoe, and if the farrier did differently than what the vet wanted, the farrier could be fined and given a misdemeanor on their record and hauled into court!? Is this true?
Also, Florida is the only state where you can a Coggin's Positive Horse and not have to put it down!?

Is PETA up to old tricks again, trying to out law shoeing, by going thur the Bare-Foot way now!?
________
Bongs
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RE:Would Farrier Licensing Help? 27 Jul 2007 04:16 #285

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In Fla the Morman Church is one of the largest land owners if ya call swamp, land. Anyway they do have the largest cattle operations in the state and because the land is not where the resorts are located the horses the cowboys use are going to end up "positive" eventually, so if you have one you can donate it to the" Deserta Ranch" and it will live out its days doing cow duty in the swamps and palmata bush of southern Fla. By the way, the old law there 26years ago was that if you rode your horse off your property or stable, you best have your Coggins in your pocket!
"As I see it, winners get the money - while losers talk of "individual goals" and similar stuff." Tom Stovall
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