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Poll: Would licensing help our professional image?

o, things are fine as they currently stand 45 52.3%
es, licensing would lend to our credibility 41 47.7%
Total number of voters: 37 See more
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TOPIC: Would Farrier Licensing Help?

RE:Would Farrier Licensing Help? 25 Jul 2007 16:05 #256

Brian Purrington wrote:
Huh????

Hey Linda, If benifits and future plans are your gripe, why don't you do it for yourself. I mean no disrespect but your rants sound a bit like you've watched "The Patriot" about fifty times too many. I feel for your situation and your losses, but we all have things we have to get through. You are not the only one in a situation like you have described....

At any rate, if you want health care, it is affordable, if you check it out. As for planning for your future get with a bank and invest... in yourself. I personally have seen the negative effects of union influence on a trade and I don't feel like paying ANY organization so I can go to work everyday.

As to licensing, I don't think it would make that much of a differece. This trade is so spread out, I think it would just produce "black market shoers". Look at Europe and the "control" they have over the profession. Even with that control they still have many cases of illegal shoeing going on. Relate that to size as compared to the USA and you have a big problem. JMO.

Darling I have, with no avail; and you are looking at a "minimum" of 1500 - 2500 a month in "complete" health including catastrophic-health/life/disability insurance for a family of 2.

What I have been trying to do is get everyone on board, the AFA, the Guild, BWFA, and the Union together for benefits for all. Seperated in the their own rite; YET, be able to come together for a full-benefits package that the Union might be able to do. I am to see if we can talk with a few people to organize to get a corporation to insure all of us. A noble cause, I am sure.

PS we already have black-market shoers in the states.

PSS Forgot to mention the reason for the 6 hours is because back in 1874, you didn't have electricity in the shops; so you used a hand grind or bellows for your fire which slowed you down in your forging test. It is tradition that has been kepted to this day.

PSSS. The reason for the anger is because not ONE person; not ONE gentlemen has at least stood up for me, and at least said to me, I understand where you are coming from; not sure if it will work, but as a fellow horseshoer--- I'LL AT LEAST LISTEN TO WHAT YOU HAVE TO SAY, AND IF WE WORK TOGETHER, WE MIGHT AGREE ONE SOME THINGS OR FIND AN ANSWER TO SOME.

I have never had so many men treat me with such disrepect as a person, and you don't even know me! It's a sad fact in our society today, that men could talk down to a woman like this.
________
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RE:Would Farrier Licensing Help? 25 Jul 2007 16:24 #257

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ladyblacksmith wrote:
I have never had so many men treat me with such disrepect as a person, and you don't even know me! It's a sad fact in our society today, that men could talk down to a woman like this.

Nope....you have been treated EXACTLY the same as EVERY OTHER FARRIER on here. No one has treated you any different because of your gender....we're not allowed to....we HAVE to treat you EXACTLY the same.

You can thank your (Liberal) bra-burning sisters of the 60's for that. :p

I'd also like to point out that as a single father, I did WHATEVER it took to keep my children covered by health insurance....which, in my case, meant working TWO JOBS. I still work two jobs, and ALL OF MY (grown) CHILDREN and wife are listed as benefactors of my life insurance....and I did it all without the help of a union....amazing !

Steve
Obstacles are those frightful things you see when you take your eyes off your goal. - Henry Ford (1863-1947)
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RE:Would Farrier Licensing Help? 25 Jul 2007 16:44 #258

Darling I have, with no avail; and you are looking at a "minimum" of 1500 - 2500 a month in "complete" health including catastrophic-health/life/disability insurance for a family of 2.
I have coverage for three and I'm 40 yrs old (the policy is based on the oldest in family) at $475.00 per month..... plus other membership benifits to include wage protection if I am injured and cannot work. If you want info just ask....
What I have been trying to do is get everyone on board, the AFA, the Guild, BWFA, and the Union together for benefits for all. Seperated in the their own rite; YET, be able to come together for a full-benefits package that the Union might be able to do. I am to see if we can talk with a few people to organize to get a corporation to insure all of us. A noble cause, I am sure.
No offence intended, but good luck with that.....
PS we already have black-market shoers in the states.
No regulation means anyone can be a "horseshoer" I know it's not what you want but it is reality. As to plating, that is a different bird.
PSS Forgot to mention the reason for the 6 hours is because back in 1874, you didn't have electricity in the shops; so you used a hand grind or bellows for your fire which slowed you down in your forging test. It is tradition that has been kepted to this day.
No problem with tradition... But it makes more sense to use technology to our advantage.
PSSS. The reason for the anger is because not ONE person; not ONE gentlemen has at least stood up for me, and at least said to me, I understand where you are coming from; not sure if it will work, but as a fellow horseshoer--- I'LL AT LEAST LISTEN TO WHAT YOU HAVE TO SAY, AND IF WE WORK TOGETHER, WE MIGHT AGREE ONE SOME THINGS OR FIND AN ANSWER TO SOME.

I have never had so many men treat me with such disrepect as a person, and you don't even know me! It's a sad fact in our society today, that men could talk down to a woman like this.
07-25-2007 09:41 AM
At what point did I disrespect you....? I stated an opinion and also said that I feel for your situation. That being said, We do all have things working against us in our personal lives. Remember you came here and presented yourself in an agressive manner, in return you got treated as you treated. You keep braggin' how you are one of the "few" and how you are "this and that", so don't complain about treatment after presenting yourself in such a manner.
Brian R. Purrington
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RE:Would Farrier Licensing Help? 25 Jul 2007 19:32 #259

  • Rick Burten
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George Geist wrote:
I can say at least in the Union any member in good standing can hold any office he or she chooses.
Apples to oranges.
In the AFA it is necessary to hold their certification to hold certain offices, participate in many of their programs etc.
Personally, I feel that the CJF requirement to run for/hold the office of Prez, Prez-elect and Vice Prez is a bad one, an unnecessary one and one that I wish the AFA would do away with. And I've said so many times. However, many organizations have requirements for those who seek office. As for your claim regarding participation in AFA programs, other than the Cultural Exchange Program, which programs require certification for participation? I know of no others, so , enlighten me or withdraw your accusation.
Thats as politicised as something gets.
George
As though union membership was anything other than politicized and rife with corruption, intimidation, bodily harm, ad naseum.
Rick Burten PF

In the immortal words of Ron White: "But let me tell you something, folks: You can't fix S-tupid. There's not a pill you can take; there's not a class you can go to. S-tupid is forever."
."


Je pense donc je suis
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RE:Would Farrier Licensing Help? 25 Jul 2007 19:53 #260

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ladyblacksmith wrote:
but excuse me!!......... being a farrier IS A JOB!!!!!!!!..................
Perhaps in your unionist zeal, you have overlooked the fact that except for those in the JHU, the profession is comprised of independent, self-employed individuals who in the true spirit of this country, have accepted both the risks and benefits of working for themselves instead of slopping at the government trough and sucking on the union teat.
and why should I have to get a regular job for benefits in the richest country in the world?,
You've got a regular job, right? And were you not a uniontista, you would understand that you are your own "company". You want benefits? Then make the company successful and then give the employee(s) a benefits package.

Nah, you're not the type. You want government largess. You want the government to dry your eyes, blow your snotty nose and wipe your .......well you get my drift. If you can't make a go of it as a farrier then either get a second job or find a different way to earn a living. Just stop sniveling and whining. OK?
when, we as farriers should be able to get benefits and can if we unite for benefits thur the Union.
I've got those benefits and I got/get them by dint of my own independent work and actions. To paraphrase: "Unions? We don't need no stinkin' unions."
ladyblacksmith wrote:
I have never had so many men treat me with such disrepect as a person, and you don't even know me! It's a sad fact in our society today, that men could talk down to a woman like this.
Grow up! You have come among us and are being treated as an equal. You want to be treated otherwise, you will be acting quite disingenuously. So which is it? Do you want to be treated as an equal or as something else? And if it is something else, then I suggest you change the tone and tenor of your replies, because it seems to me that you are giving as good as you get.

By the way, I'm in a PPO that includes my wife and daughter and its ~$600.00/month. And if you can't afford $150.00/week for health insurance, then you need to find a different line of work. And with just you and your daughter, your costs should be less than mine. And when the age factor is factored in, you should be able to find decent health coverage for about what Brian is paying. Or less. Besides, you'e got union benefits, right? So what's your squabble? Or is your vaunted union not quite coming up to snuff when it comes to benefits, etc?

Meantime, to paraphrase Johnny Paycheck, "Take your Union and shove it."
Rick Burten PF

In the immortal words of Ron White: "But let me tell you something, folks: You can't fix S-tupid. There's not a pill you can take; there's not a class you can go to. S-tupid is forever."
."


Je pense donc je suis
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RE:Would Farrier Licensing Help? 25 Jul 2007 21:25 #261

Tom Stovall, CJF wrote:
Phil Armitage in gray

Tom, what is the latest on the Houston Police horses going barefoot?

The last time I checked, half the HPD horses were crippled and the other half were sore.

Last I heard this is one of Pete Ramey's success storys.

Success story? The official line is, "All our horses are doing fine: Who're you gonna believe, the patrolman riding the horse or your lying eyes?"

So who is lying Pete Ramey or the Patrolman? Maybe instead of the Match we can get together and do something for the Houston Mounted Patrol. :)
Phil Armitage, CF
AFA member 7480

"Anyone who proposes to do good must not expect people to roll stones out of his way, but must accept his lot calmly if they even roll a few more upon it." Albert Schweitzer
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RE:Would Farrier Licensing Help? 25 Jul 2007 21:37 #262

  • George Geist
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Rick Burten wrote:
Personally, I feel that the CJF requirement to run for/hold the office of Prez, Prez-elect and Vice Prez is a bad one, an unnecessary one and one that I wish the AFA would do away with. And I've said so many times. However, many organizations have requirements for those who seek office. As for your claim regarding participation in AFA programs, other than the Cultural Exchange Program, which programs require certification for participation? I know of no others, so , enlighten me or withdraw your accusation.
Unless the rules have been changed, to my understanding it's also necessary for AFT membership.

In short, some members enjoy rights and privileges that other members do not. This creates 2 classes of membership. A difficult thing for a small time labor leader like me to embrace :)
George
For another fun place to play........
www.horseshoersforum.invisionzone.com
Come over and say hello.
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RE:Would Farrier Licensing Help? 25 Jul 2007 22:11 #263

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Tom Stovall, CJF wrote:





Read what Harry Patton said about the CA HU test in a 1987 Anvil interview <http://www.anvilmag.com/farrier/inthp.htm>. Bear in mind that Mr. Patton was a staunch unionist and had difficulty in understanding that the CRB found the JHU test exclusionary.
Again more hearsay. Harry Patton loved the Union as that article shows. Is a flimsy argument. Even if true, 1987! 20 years ago! For crying out loud, I hear whining when I mention stuff the AFA did last year as it being ancient history. Get over it already. Nobody from that time and place is even in the Union anymore.
Somewhere in my office, I've got a bid sheet from the City of Houston in which a CJF was a requirement for submitting a bid.
Again for a political job


Nossir, the suggestion that the JHU test is exclusionary is a reality check for anyone who touts a good 'ol boy club as a substitute for individualism.
Is not a club but a bona fide labor union. 2nd oldest in the country. I should hope that a man such as yourself would know the difference between a labor union and a social club


Wait, I almost forgot! Some (all?) unions have deadweights in management who don't have to dirty their hands in the trenches with the rank and file: Do the JHU and their "brother" unions have anyone like that? Whatever you do, don't Google "union corruption", you might find it a mite unpalatable. :)
Anybody who wants to google union corruption will find plenty. They'd be hard pressed to find anything involving the horseshoers though. While your at it though in all fairness also google corruption in business, government, education, religion,sports, or any other institution you can think of. Personally I can think of nothing that hasn't been corrupted right up to the 12 apostles. Have a look at this one:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2007/02/20/BAGDBO7QEO4.DTL&type=printable
George
For another fun place to play........
www.horseshoersforum.invisionzone.com
Come over and say hello.
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RE:Would Farrier Licensing Help? 25 Jul 2007 22:14 #264

George Geist wrote:
Unless the rules have been changed, to my understanding it's also necessary for AFT membership.

In short, some members enjoy rights and privileges that other members do not. This creates 2 classes of membership. A difficult thing for a small time labor leader like me to embrace :)
George

This does not create 2 classes of membership at all. In my opinion it is incentive to learn more and work hard. The hard work pays off.
Phil Armitage, CF
AFA member 7480

"Anyone who proposes to do good must not expect people to roll stones out of his way, but must accept his lot calmly if they even roll a few more upon it." Albert Schweitzer
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RE:Would Farrier Licensing Help? 25 Jul 2007 22:15 #265

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Phil Armitage wrote:
So who is lying Pete Ramey or the Patrolman? Maybe instead of the Match we can get together and do something for the Houston Mounted Patrol. :)
Hmmmmm

Houston's certification requirement didnt help? I got it, maybe the guy wasn't FULL TIME!!!!!
George
For another fun place to play........
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Come over and say hello.
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RE:Would Farrier Licensing Help? 25 Jul 2007 22:21 #266

George Geist wrote:
Hmmmmm

Houston's certification requirement didnt help? I got it, maybe the guy wasn't FULL TIME!!!!!
George

Maybe he is a Certified Barefoot Trimmer?
Phil Armitage, CF
AFA member 7480

"Anyone who proposes to do good must not expect people to roll stones out of his way, but must accept his lot calmly if they even roll a few more upon it." Albert Schweitzer
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RE:Would Farrier Licensing Help? 25 Jul 2007 23:28 #267

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Why would you want to "do something for the mounted patrol"?

If you want to DO something bring CASH to "The Match" and you can donate to an injured farriers fund. That will help farriers alot more than doing something for the HPD mounted patrol.
Jeff Holder

Some people are like Slinky’s, pretty much useless but make you smile when you push them down the stairs.
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RE:Would Farrier Licensing Help? 25 Jul 2007 23:41 #268

J.H. shoeing wrote:
Why would you want to "do something for the mounted patrol"?

If you want to DO something bring CASH to "The Match" and you can donate to an injured farriers fund. That will help farriers alot more than doing something for the HPD mounted patrol.

Good idea Jeff I can do a couple of horses and donate it. I owe you a beer or whatever for your birthday when I get there. :D
Phil Armitage, CF
AFA member 7480

"Anyone who proposes to do good must not expect people to roll stones out of his way, but must accept his lot calmly if they even roll a few more upon it." Albert Schweitzer
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RE:Would Farrier Licensing Help? 26 Jul 2007 00:33 #269

HoustonFarrier wrote:
Nope....you have been treated EXACTLY the same as EVERY OTHER FARRIER on here. No one has treated you any different because of your gender....we're not allowed to....we HAVE to treat you EXACTLY the same.

You can thank your (Liberal) bra-burning sisters of the 60's for that. :p

I'd also like to point out that as a single father, I did WHATEVER it took to keep my children covered by health insurance....which, in my case, meant working TWO JOBS. I still work two jobs, and ALL OF MY (grown) CHILDREN and wife are listed as benefactors of my life insurance....and I did it all without the help of a union....amazing !

Steve

At least you have a wife! Please cherish her! Would you want any man speak to your wife like that, I think now.

Because of your (Liberal) sister's, well can see what I am up against.

Well, I will change things in this industry, one way or another!
________
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RE:Would Farrier Licensing Help? 26 Jul 2007 01:04 #270

Brian Purrington wrote:
I have coverage for three and I'm 40 yrs old (the policy is based on the oldest in family) at $475.00 per month..... plus other membership benifits to include wage protection if I am injured and cannot work. If you want info just ask....

No offence intended, but good luck with that.....

No regulation means anyone can be a "horseshoer" I know it's not what you want but it is reality. As to plating, that is a different bird.

No problem with tradition... But it makes more sense to use technology to our advantage.

At what point did I disrespect you....? I stated an opinion and also said that I feel for your situation. That being said, We do all have things working against us in our personal lives. Remember you came here and presented yourself in an agressive manner, in return you got treated as you treated. You keep braggin' how you are one of the "few" and how you are "this and that", so don't complain about treatment after presenting yourself in such a manner.


Yes! Plating is a different bird, and an art of horseshoeing just like any other style of shoeing!........thank you for saying that. It means a lot to me.

You disrespected me when you wouldn't engage and "listen" to me, and ask questions, even if we diagreed on a lot of the issues; at least, we would talk about it. It is good to listen to someone else's ideas and thoughts on the situation and another way of doing things when it comes to our trade. It's called being open-minded to new ideas and thinking outside the box.
Also; I WAS nice, at first; then when you guys "came after me!", well, you picked the wrong person, and I was going to let you have it with both barrels.
I will fight to the death if necessary to do what is right! You might not like me in this trade, but I am here to stay, whether you like it or not. I will continue to fight to make things right and better in our trade.

QUOTE:
"For those who understand, no explaination is needed
For those who do not undersand, no explaination can be given!!!!"

With that, I have other fellow blacksmiths who are friends, and who I help in anyway that is needed; and they help me whenever they can.

..............................goodnite..........................
________
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