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TOPIC: Testing for other organizations

RE:Testing for other organizations 03 Aug 2007 03:36 #76

  • Gary Hill
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Linda we have a whole lot more dog and cat or just cow vets but the ones around here that have alittle bit of horsesense do relie on a few of us that have good communication with them. I get alot of nice accounts from differant Vets in my area because I don't challenge them but try to communicate with them and gain their respect.
"As I see it, winners get the money - while losers talk of "individual goals" and similar stuff." Tom Stovall
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RE:Testing for other organizations 03 Aug 2007 11:02 #77

vthorseshoe wrote:
You know I do. You and I have been down this road before.
Unlike most others I am pro Licensing and that is one of the reasons. It will make the playing field smaller, It will raise the quality of work, It will mean more horses and better money for those who can make the grade.

If you think about it if certification was required to hang out a shingle, that would be in a sense a form of licensing.

In a basic sense it would accomplish what Mike was saying about apprentiship.

I know all the pro's and con's and don't need to hash them over again.

Also George, think about why many schools are opened.
You don't need to be on the road anymore. As an instructor you can bring in a hefty income at today's prices for attending any length of school. Multiply that by 5 to 10 students on a revoving scale and you have a pretty nice paycheck.
GRANTED, there are instructors in many schools who are teaching because it is a way to give back or help improve the young folks starting out, but the bottom line is $. If anyone disagree's, show me a school who takes students for free.
So the bottom line to all the questions and problems is $'s. Either going out or coming in.


I like what you said, and I said this on another thread; it should be put in a science degree, in college, up to Ph.D status; and you go to vet school to learn the profession. You also take a swagetest and do the certification test in order to shoe horses.
That way you get rid of these 90 day wonders that ruin horses and making the public (with no first hand knowledge want licencing).

The spin is getting out of control, and PETA and others are making it worse.

got to go to work.....................Linda.......................
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RE:Testing for other organizations 03 Aug 2007 11:26 #78

You also take a swagetest and do the certification test in order to shoe horses.

Hey Linda,

I've seen alot of your posts refer to swaging, and how you feel it should be included in any test. Why? I had never swaged a shoe in my life, one day I decided I wanted to, but didn't have a swage block. Here is how my wintery afternoon went.

http://s157.photobucket.com/albums/t59/wellshodhorses/first%20swage%20shoe/?action=view¤t=9d116d63.pbw

And the final result...

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t59/wellshodhorses/Finished%20swage%20shoe/S4020480.jpg

I'm not saying that swaging isn't part of the job, but I've never had to use it other than to "play" I'm not sayin' my shoe was "perfect" or even "good" but with no instruction at all in about 3 hours I made a swage, and made a finished and nailable shoe. With practice anyone could be good at it.

Why are you so stuck on this??? Just wondering.
Brian R. Purrington
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RE:Testing for other organizations 03 Aug 2007 12:56 #79

Brian that is just too cool. Did you come up with the swage design. Do you mind shareing the specs.

Really nice job on the shoe.
Phil Armitage, CF
AFA member 7480

"Anyone who proposes to do good must not expect people to roll stones out of his way, but must accept his lot calmly if they even roll a few more upon it." Albert Schweitzer
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RE:Testing for other organizations 03 Aug 2007 13:55 #80

Phil,

You will have to ask Captian Morgan about the actual specs....:D

Funny what you will do to yourself when you are bored huh????

I made the holder out of mild steel, all thread and some 3 inch channel. The yellowish bolts are grade 8 3/8x2 1/2 or 3 and are to tighten the holder on the "bits". The "bits" are out of an old snowplow blade. I ground the shapes individually and put them together in the order I wanted.

I made the setup "interchangeable" so I could make several different patterns and I also have tons of the wore out blade to make more bits from. I had NO idea if it would work or not, but it did.

On one of my trips down to the Delmarva assn. I brought it and let three guys strike with 8-12 lb sledge hammers. I still have it and it is still working. Matt Timuity thought it would break, I think Tom B. did too. I guess it was just about right in the strength area.

I'm just curious why so much emphasis on swaging. Sure it is a tool that we all could use if we had to. But how does that relate directly to shoeing horses with todays available shoes from the shelf. It's kinda like saying if you want to be a carpenter you should first learn how to make 2x4's or how to mill trim. Sure it would be good to have a general idea of the process it takes to do those things, but is it necessary to to them in order to be a carpenter?

Just my 2 cents, probably not worth much...
Brian R. Purrington
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RE:Testing for other organizations 03 Aug 2007 15:17 #81

  • beslagsmed
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Great work Brian. One question on this swaging bit. Couldn't you must fuller all around the shoe and come up with about the same effect if you don't have a swag block? I have done that to shoes to give them a little more grip and it seems to work ok. Like you I have never had the need for swaging shoes, and I don't think I will. I have access to different sizes of concave steel so that takes care of that.
Mikel Dawson, RJF

(Denmark)
What part of "NO" don't you understand!!

Caution: Watch for hoof in mouth disease!!!
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RE:Testing for other organizations 03 Aug 2007 17:09 #82

Mikel,

Sure, there is always more than one way to skin a rabbit.... :D

Swaging is mostly to give the shoe a specific form, ie: rolled outer edge, tapered inner edge and a fuller. I can get concave stock too. Like I said, I was just lookin' for something to do that day.

That shoe started out as 3/8x5/8 stock and ended up 5/16x3/4 so to make a shoe like that without a swage you'd have to do a lot of hammer work. I think most swaging is done with round stock. I saw it tried but it seemed to twist alot more than the square or rectange.

Again the shoe is not my point....it's not even that good. I am just wondering why so much emphasis on being able to swage?
Brian R. Purrington
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RE:Testing for other organizations 04 Aug 2007 02:42 #83

  • beslagsmed
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Brian, I fully understand your point and agree with you. I also understand the "just somethign to do day" type things. It is kind of fun to do.
Mikel Dawson, RJF

(Denmark)
What part of "NO" don't you understand!!

Caution: Watch for hoof in mouth disease!!!
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RE:Testing for other organizations 04 Aug 2007 10:42 #84

jaminkindt wrote:
Thanks George!

I know I ruffled some feathers and your right it was fun.

If you could give me some info on the Union that would be great.

Thanks, Jamin


I can too, Linda. We can give all the information, ect.
Take care, Linda
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RE:Testing for other organizations 04 Aug 2007 10:51 #85

Brian Purrington wrote:
Hey Linda,

I've seen alot of your posts refer to swaging, and how you feel it should be included in any test. Why? I had never swaged a shoe in my life, one day I decided I wanted to, but didn't have a swage block. Here is how my wintery afternoon went.

http://s157.photobucket.com/albums/t59/wellshodhorses/first%20swage%20shoe/?action=view¤t=9d116d63.pbw

And the final result...

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t59/wellshodhorses/Finished%20swage%20shoe/S4020480.jpg

I'm not saying that swaging isn't part of the job, but I've never had to use it other than to "play" I'm not sayin' my shoe was "perfect" or even "good" but with no instruction at all in about 3 hours I made a swage, and made a finished and nailable shoe. With practice anyone could be good at it.

Why are you so stuck on this??? Just wondering.


Only because it is becoming a LOST art; most people and farriers don't even know what it is, let alone know how it came about. You should hear what people say to me, I could write a book.
Thats all, see ya Linda.
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RE:Testing for other organizations 04 Aug 2007 10:54 #86

I was expecting a legitimate answer... That's all you have????

Basket weaving is a lost art too, should we be tested on that as well?
Brian R. Purrington
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RE:Testing for other organizations 04 Aug 2007 10:55 #87

Brian Purrington wrote:
Mikel,

Sure, there is always more than one way to skin a rabbit.... :D

Swaging is mostly to give the shoe a specific form, ie: rolled outer edge, tapered inner edge and a fuller. I can get concave stock too. Like I said, I was just lookin' for something to do that day.

That shoe started out as 3/8x5/8 stock and ended up 5/16x3/4 so to make a shoe like that without a swage you'd have to do a lot of hammer work. I think most swaging is done with round stock. I saw it tried but it seemed to twist alot more than the square or rectange.

Again the shoe is not my point....it's not even that good. I am just wondering why so much emphasis on being able to swage?



In Thoroughbred test it's on flat stock only, and the Standardbred test is done on half-round stock......I'll show you one day........Linda..
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RE:Testing for other organizations 04 Aug 2007 11:09 #88

Hot steel is hot steel no matter what shape it is as far as I'm concerned. I get the proportional differences and all, But why.... when you can pick up just about any type shoe you want from the supply house. :rolleyes:

I guess I just don't get it. I have a hard enough time keeping up with my schedule without having to bang out swaged stock to shoe horses with. 'Course I don't do any speed horses either... :)

Handmades are sometimes necessary in a pinch (and are also a "lost art") so that is why I see the validity of the test criteria in that respect. I can't think of any situation that would require me to swage. :o
Brian R. Purrington
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RE:Testing for other organizations 04 Aug 2007 12:06 #89

  • reillyshoe
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beslagsmed wrote:
I am a firm believer in "Papers don't make a horse". Just because a farrier has his papers doesn't mean he/she will always shoe horses that way. This is why I am 100% against manditory certification.

I am 100% for education and extending one's knowledge base. As a farrier we should learn as much as we can to better help our clients. If becoming a member of an extablishment (BWFA, AFA, GUILD,UNION) is YOUR way to better education then great - go for it. One thing is to obtain the knowledge - the other thing is how much do you know? What is your guage to evaluate your knowledge level. We have already established horseshoeing schools have different lengths, tests, knowledge levels. They are some what of a guage to test your level.

Mikel

Mikel,
I agree with your comments completely. I am curious, what would you think of mandatory licensing with education being the only requirement to obtaining one? Any school of thought, just proof of education in horseshoeing?
P
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RE:Testing for other organizations 04 Aug 2007 19:42 #90

  • Gary Hill
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I have a question since it has been very many moons since I even nailed on a shoe for a runner. When I did they were all alum and luckily the trainer even supplied them and the nails. He had a farm outside of Orlando and ran his horses at Calder in Tampa. He would call for track conditions in the early morning and we/I would nail the ones he wanted/needed on and load the horses and off he'd go. How many TB racers do run in steel? The Blacksmiths at Ben White Raceway, now thats a whole differant ballgame.
"As I see it, winners get the money - while losers talk of "individual goals" and similar stuff." Tom Stovall
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