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TOPIC: Testing for other organizations

RE:Testing for other organizations 02 Apr 2007 11:59 #31

  • tbloomer
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Mike Ferrara wrote:
So a farrier goes out and learns how and becomes a professional and then comes to the Guild for affirmation? And they/we need the Guild for what?

As a rugged individualist (as you put it), I don't need the guild for anything...especially the nothing that they plan on doing.
At our annual membership meeting this year most of the long-time guild members said that they joined the Guild to give back to the profession.

Since you haven't seen the Guild's strategic outline, you really aren't in a position to discuss what we plan on doing. You can speculate and then criticize, but eventually somebody's going to see that behavior and interpret it as a reflection of your intillectual capacity.

It appears that you think that the Guild should be changing their membership criteria to allow unqualified farriers to be members. 'Nuther words we should lower the bar. As far as I know, we are the only farrier organization that is made up of fully qualified professionals. As such, we are the only organization that can honestly and with integrity promote farriery as a profession practiced by professionals. If we open the membership to everybody that says they are or want to be a professional, then we defeat our own purpose of existance.

Every other farrier association has an open inclusive membership or at least a student/apprentice membership level. We aren't trying to be like everybody else. We've no interest in giving every wannabe a place to feel good or feel included. We are not here to coddle, educate, and support aspiring farriers. THAT should be the job of the AFA, the BWFA, and their member chapters. Most of our members are AFA and/or BWFA members as well.

The GPF provides a place, for those who have professional aspirations, to go to when they are ready to begin their journey as fully qualified professionals who contribute to the profession, when they reach a point where they actually have proven their capacity to contribute. We are givers.

What can The Guild can do for you? If you qualify, we give you a place to provide support and encouragement to the public promotion of farriery as a serious profession rather than a hobby, a sport, or a means of generating disposable income by providing contract labor.

We provide a place for serious, dedicated, established career professionals to collectively speak on behalf of our profession. We are the ONLY organization that can 100% do that with 100% of our membership.
Tom Bloomer
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Here's the deal. I'm trying to keep it simple.
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RE:Testing for other organizations 02 Apr 2007 12:53 #32

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Phil Armitage wrote:
. . . She wants me to stop shoeing and get a job with benefits . . .

Do I need the AFA, BWFA and Guild to earn more?
No. You need a strategic plan that is geared toward building your income to the point where you can afford to live the way you want to off of your income from your farrier practice.

No disrespect intended here, but it appears to me that there are a lot of farriers who are in the same situation as you. 'Nuther words, they have no long term strategy. LOOK AT THE AFA!!! An organization with no strategy run by reaction instead of proaction. It's not just limited to farriers. Look at Worldcom, Ford, and General Motors! Compared to them, we farriers are doing pretty well for ourselves. :)

Last year I started working on a strategic plan outline for the Guild. Not willing to let a good deed go unpunished, Henry appointed me as the Guild's Planning Committee Chairman.

I'm not ready to publish it, but I will tell you that within that strategic plan outline is a member benefit which provides business planning templates to help Guild members with their business strategy. The idea is that every member has some unique business talent that we can tap into and create some "boilerplate" business planning tools for all of our members to use.

Some of our members have had extraordinary business success. They have discovered ways to generate wealth as opposed to just earning a living wage. My strategic objective is to codify what they did into a process that the rest of us can use to build our own long term stability and security. Instead of learning from other people's mistakes, I want to learn from other people's success.

As far as offering medical benefits for members . . . I can tell you that both the Guild and the AFA have already attempted to do this. Both organizations dropped their medical benefits program due to lack of member participation. The biggest problem with an organization offering medical benefits is that the laws governing medical insurance are different in every state. New Jersey has a law PROHIBITING member organizations from purchasing medical group insurance benefits. Only EMPLOYERS are allowed to purhase group insurance. The LAW favors the insurance companies . . . they have money to lobby, er, bribe the politicians into seeing things their way. BUT, President Hillary will straghten out this situation, so I'm not worried about it. :)

BTW, If anybody wants the "Carlton Sheets" videos on "how to get rich buying realestate" . . . I'll make you a good deal on 'em. :)
Tom Bloomer
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Here's the deal. I'm trying to keep it simple.
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RE:Testing for other organizations 02 Apr 2007 13:15 #33

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George,

The Guild accepts the Union's exam in place of the RJF exam. I've never personally seen the "Union's" membership criteria or their examination process spelled out in writing. They don't have a web site. So can you get an electronic copy of their criteria and testing process and post it here for us? It would be nice to see it spelled out.

I've always had the impression that the Union was somewhat specialized toward shoeing race horses. I've heard that the exam involves hand swaged racing plates - which I think is really cool, but we saddle horse shoers don't run into it very often.

I've stopped keeping the Guild a secret. You stop keeping the Union a secret. :)
Tom Bloomer
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Here's the deal. I'm trying to keep it simple.
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RE:Testing for other organizations 02 Apr 2007 14:11 #34

  • Mike Ferrara
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tbloomer wrote:
Since you haven't seen the Guild's strategic outline, you really aren't in a position to discuss what we plan on doing. You can speculate and then criticize, but eventually somebody's going to see that behavior and interpret it as a reflection of your intillectual capacity.

I was simply commenting on what you wrote. Naturally, your opinion of my intellectual capacity is right at the top of my list of concerns for the day.

It appears that you think that the Guild should be changing their membership criteria to allow unqualified farriers to be members. 'Nuther words we should lower the bar. As far as I know, we are the only farrier organization that is made up of fully qualified professionals. As such, we are the only organization that can honestly and with integrity promote farriery as a profession practiced by professionals. If we open the membership to everybody that says they are or want to be a professional, then we defeat our own purpose of existance.

Not at all. I think a club should be able to apply whatever membership criteria they wish. However, I don't think passing one test makes one a joureyman anything in the traditional sense of the word. I suppose the Guild can define a Guild RJF as anything they want. I guess the Guild can define a Guild professional as being anything they want. However, they might have trouble getting the rest of the world to accept their definition of "journeyman" and "professional". I hate to break it to you but the guild is in no position to determine what a "fully qualified professional" farrier is.


Every other farrier association has an open inclusive membership or at least a student/apprentice membership level. We aren't trying to be like everybody else. We've no interest in giving every wannabe a place to feel good or feel included. We are not here to coddle, educate, and support aspiring farriers. THAT should be the job of the AFA, the BWFA, and their member chapters. Most of our members are AFA and/or BWFA members as well.

The GPF provides a place, for those who have professional aspirations, to go to when they are ready to begin their journey as fully qualified professionals who contribute to the profession, when they reach a point where they actually have proven their capacity to contribute. We are givers.

Fully qualified according to the Guild right? To whom must one prove their capacity to contribute? Contribute what? What do you give?

What can The Guild can do for you? If you qualify, we give you a place to provide support and encouragement to the public promotion of farriery as a serious profession rather than a hobby, a sport, or a means of generating disposable income by providing contract labor.

What's wrong with farriery as a part time endeavor? Many professions (even those requiring a real degree) have those who practice the profession part time...engineers, accountants, you name it.

We provide a place for serious, dedicated, established career professionals to collectively speak on behalf of our profession. We are the ONLY organization that can 100% do that with 100% of our membership.

Well, no. Guild members speak for the Guild. The Guild is made up of an insignificant percentage of the members of this "profession" and I don't know about all the others but I do not give the Guild leave to speak for me. It's nothing short of pure arrogance for the Guild to believe or to claim that they speak for the "profession".
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RE:Testing for other organizations 02 Apr 2007 14:13 #35

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I heard the NB Cert is very difficult. Also heard some failed the last testing because of the lack of forgeing skills. Anyone have more info. on this
.Yes, some have failed, in not only just the last testing but previous tests. Failed applicants include a few long time professionals.

Patty
Patty Stiller CNBF,CLS
www.hoofcareonline.com
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RE:Testing for other organizations 02 Apr 2007 14:28 #36

I don't want or mean to disrespect or offend any one but...

I think that the Guild's "HOLIER THAN THOU" attitude is putting off alot of farriers that are just getting into this profession. You say that the Guild is not there to coddle,educate, and support aspiring farriers but I would bet money that 99% of farriers on this site have apprenticed with another farrier.
Are you saying that's a bad thing?

If you only want serious, dedicated, career professionals, then why don't you teach them how to shoe at "your level"? I would personally rather join an assoc. that offers me some sort of insurance, pension plan, and somewhere I can go to continue my education as a farrier. I think these benifits are alot better than an assoc. that offers a hat and a bumper sticker!

It doesn't matter what assoc. you belong to, we are all doing this for the same reason; the good of the horse and because we love it!

Again, NO DISRESPECT TO ANYONE it's just my 2 cents.

Jamin
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RE:Testing for other organizations 02 Apr 2007 14:46 #37

  • Gary_Miller
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Phil
I thought you were retired from the USAF?

If so why aren't you on Tri-Care health insurance. At $480 a year plus your $12 co-pay for office visits you can't beat the deal.
Gary Miller, PF

Ride hard, shoot straight, and always speak the truth.
Gunfighter Motto

"Our level of quality is how well our eye can see it." (Eric Russell, Oct 2008, Horseshoes.com)

"Discover what it is that makes you passionate then grab a firm...
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RE:Testing for other organizations 02 Apr 2007 15:18 #38

  • Rick Burten
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jaminkindt wrote:
I don't want or mean to disrespect or offend any one but...

I think that the Guild's "HOLIER THAN THOU" attitude is putting off alot of farriers that are just getting into this profession.
There is not "holier than thou" attitude in the Guild. But farriers who are just getting into the profession are not the farriers that the Guild is pursuing for membership. The Guild does indeed have an "elitist" outlook and we want those farriers who want to be and are capable of being, among the elite in our profession. Ham 'n eggers need not apply.

Rick
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."


Je pense donc je suis
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RE:Testing for other organizations 02 Apr 2007 15:40 #39

Again, the Guild wants farriers who WANT to be and are capable of being, among the elite in our profession. I think that every farrier WANTS to be among the best in in our profession but, how are they going to be if no one teaches them? (i.e. continuing education)

I am just tired of one assoc. saying that they are better than the other. We ALL need to help and support each other.

Jamin
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RE:Testing for other organizations 02 Apr 2007 15:52 #40

  • George Geist
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Hey Tom B,
One of the ways AFA grew to be the biggest organization was by gobbling up most, if not all of the state associations. Many started out independant, others were formed with the intention of being an AFA local affiliate. This course of action has worked for them.

BWFA a few years back tried to establish some local affiliates in some places being as that I've not seen or heard from any of these groups I must conclude that their efforts were unsuccessful. This brings me to the question.

Does the Guild have any plans to establish local affiliates such as state chapters etc?
George
For another fun place to play........
www.horseshoersforum.invisionzone.com
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RE:Testing for other organizations 02 Apr 2007 17:23 #41

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jaminkindt wrote:
I am just tired of one assoc. saying that they are better than the other. We ALL need to help and support each other.

Jamin

I have yet to read where any Guild member said the Guild was better than anyone else. What they have stated is the facts - they are the only association which is 100% tested and certified. If that's saying they are better, then maybe they are.

For me that gives me a goal to shoot for. I am sure if I ask any Guild member if I could come and practice with them to pass the test, they would be more than glad to assist me in this way. Right or wrong Guild members? If this is not helping to promote the advancement of the profession, I don't know what is.

Mikel
Mikel Dawson, RJF

(Denmark)
What part of "NO" don't you understand!!

Caution: Watch for hoof in mouth disease!!!
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RE:Testing for other organizations 02 Apr 2007 18:51 #42

When you bash the AFA. When you bash the BWFA. That to me is saying that "I am better than you" And that my way of doing things are better, and they probably are but I don't think anyone should have anything negative to say about our fellow farrier assoc.

Would the Guild assist me in passing their test? NO.

Why? Because and I quote: "the Guild is not here to coddle, educate, and support aspiring farriers"

I am all about being the best, well rounded farrier I can be, but just like so many farriers out there I need help in doing that.

If someone from the Guild would like to contact me, I would love to talk about getting the help in need to be certified through them.

All I was saying in my first post was that young farriers that I have talked to are not big on the Guild.

Hope I didn't make any one mad!

Jamin
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RE:Testing for other organizations 02 Apr 2007 19:05 #43

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Jamin,
You needn't worry about making people mad around here. Sometimes it can be fun.

I'm not sure quite what your goals or interests are, but I can personally guarantee you that if you ever wanted to join the Union you would get whatever help you needed.
George
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www.horseshoersforum.invisionzone.com
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RE:Testing for other organizations 02 Apr 2007 19:10 #44

  • J.H. shoeing
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Jamin

I will be glad to help you get ready for the Guild test. You can contact me thru private message hear on the boards and we can work out the details.
Jeff Holder

Some people are like Slinky’s, pretty much useless but make you smile when you push them down the stairs.
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RE:Testing for other organizations 02 Apr 2007 19:13 #45

  • vthorseshoe
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Jamin, First don't fret about making folks mad. Saying it like it is, is what makes this board unique.
Soft ego's or easily hurt feelings fade from the scene. So say what is on your mind and don't appologize.

2nd. There is nothing wrong with the Guild position on taking members who meet a certain criteria.
You state you want to learn. Learn from the shoers around you, learn from the chapter in your area, learn from the available education the AFA and the BWFA supply.
Build your skills and get some years under your belt which will give you experience you won't find in an exam, then if you still wish to, take the Guil;d or the Union exam.
Don't look at it as a road block to keep you out, but in actuality a chance to join other farriers who had the same desire, tenacity, stick-to-ittiveness to rech and attain a level of skill to pass the Guild or the union exam.

Their not blocking your road, they are giving you a new road to set a goal for and work to attain.
"you may not like what I say" !
-but-
"you'll never have any doubts where I stand
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I thought my life had come to a close with Cindy's passing, but there is life after death Thankyou Sharon !

Bruce Matthews
Southeast...
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