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Poll: Should the AFA turn the national championship and team selection over to the WCB?

es 20 28.2%
o 24 33.8%
eed more information 17 23.9%
on\'t care 10 14.1%
Total number of voters: 43 ( eddiemarcus37 ) See more
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TOPIC: WCB proposal to the AFA

RE:WCB proposal to the AFA 16 Mar 2007 12:20 #46

  • Rick Burten
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AndrewCJF wrote:
Craig,

Your Chief Planning and Operations Officer, Jill Ballard, is no longer listed as a contact on the WCB website. Neither is the WCB Chief FInancial Officer, Kyle Ballard. Has there been a personnel change? Are Kyle and Jill still actively involved in the WCB? I thought they were principles.

Please update.

Thanks, Andrew
Why is this information either important or necessary?

As for the rest of the discussion, I find that the Tom's, Gary, Ben, etal have said what I was going to say and prettly much , said it better. I find myself in the strange position of one who is not really competition, being in support of the concept of the WCB managing the contest for the AFA.

Rick
Rick Burten PF

In the immortal words of Ron White: "But let me tell you something, folks: You can't fix S-tupid. There's not a pill you can take; there's not a class you can go to. S-tupid is forever."
."


Je pense donc je suis
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RE:WCB proposal to the AFA 16 Mar 2007 12:34 #47

AndrewCJF wrote:
Craig,

Your Chief Planning and Operations Officer, Jill Ballard, is no longer listed as a contact on the WCB website. Neither is the WCB Chief FInancial Officer, Kyle Ballard. Has there been a personnel change? Are Kyle and Jill still actively involved in the WCB? I thought they were principles.


The announcement was in the last mailing form the WCB, allong with some convention news, more than we get from the mushroom farmers in the AFA.
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RE:WCB proposal to the AFA 16 Mar 2007 12:37 #48

  • Tom Stovall CJF
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T.N. Trosin in gray, deletia

As to Mr. Stovall's (and anybody else's) point about compitions not being an educational experiance, I have to agree with Craig but probably for differnt reasons. I personally have learned quite abit about myself, my strengths and weeknesses from competing eventhough I don't compete as much as others.

I try to get in the pen every once in a while just to see how i am doing. I have seen marvolus things at compitions such as the branch of a shoe comming together or a dimond caulk appearing from what once was an orange blob of steel. You can get something out of everything even if you disagree with it.


I have no quarrel with folks who find forging/shoeing competitions educational, but in terms of education, I think the vast majority of folks are better served by the slower-paced, less frantic, atmospheres of clinics, wet labs, and similar formats that deal with mundane, pragmatic, subjects instead of a better/faster/slicker way to make a roadster shoe or a French bar.

Since the AFA's resources are finite and the contest is a losing proposition that has educational value to a relative few, it appears to me that the membership would be better served by the AFA's finding another outfit to run the contest and devoting its resources to making the public aware of the existence of its certification program, medical/hospitalization insurance, and similar projects that have more value to the membership as a whole instead of a select few. Think of it as fiscal triage.

If a chapter member of the AFA wants to assume financial responsibility for the contest, with some sort of "sanctioning fee" going to the AFA, it appears to me to be a win/win situation for all concerned. Folks who feel contests are of educational value and folks who feel contests are a waste of resources get to have their cake and eat it too.

What's not to like?
Tom Stovall, CJF
"The only foolish question is the one left unasked."
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RE:WCB proposal to the AFA 16 Mar 2007 12:37 #49

  • Jaye Perry
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Roy -The announcement was in the last mailing form the WCB, ... more than we get from the mushroom farmers in the AFA.
Announcements and information has to be run through committee- you forgot didn't ya?:D
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RE:WCB proposal to the AFA 16 Mar 2007 12:50 #50

  • Jaye Perry
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Mr.Tom ...
Since the AFA's resources are finite and the contest is a losing proposition that has educational value to a relative few, it appears to me that the membership would be better served by the AFA's finding another outfit to run the contest and devoting its resources to making the public aware of the existence of its certification program, medical/hospitalization insurance, and similar projects that have more value to the membership as a whole instead of a select few. Think of it as fiscal triage.

It will have to go to committee.
If a chapter member of the AFA wants to assume financial responsibility for the contest, with some sort of "sanctioning fee" going to the AFA, it appears to me to be a win/win situation for all concerned. Folks who feel contests are of educational value and folks who feel contests are a waste of resources get to have their cake and eat it too.
That will have be discussed in the sub-subcommittee of logical thinking and then passed to the subcommittee of propagating the mushroom(s) committee. This committee will decide if the light bulb will be turned on or the lights stay off for the commitee to send to the EC and BoD. Then send to the due paying members with ammendments.

What's not to like?
I love it, you stated the idea in a more practical manner than I did.:)
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RE:WCB proposal to the AFA 16 Mar 2007 12:58 #51

Tom and Jaye have offered up some great input and wisdom. I hope the movers and shakers in the AFA read what they have posted on this thread.

Andrew, the questions you have for the WCB are great. Consider the points Tom and Jaye have made, they make a lot of sense.

As I learn more about what the WCB wants to do. I do not see any harm in the WCB running the competition and doing it in the manner that they proposed. Really see a win win situation that will help the AFA focus on other issues.
Phil Armitage, CF
AFA member 7480

"Anyone who proposes to do good must not expect people to roll stones out of his way, but must accept his lot calmly if they even roll a few more upon it." Albert Schweitzer
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RE:WCB proposal to the AFA 16 Mar 2007 13:03 #52

  • Gary Hill
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This is sounding like the way Tuff ,Ty, and Donny got away from the PRCA and started the PBR and now Tuff is on his own again with another assn-show?
"As I see it, winners get the money - while losers talk of "individual goals" and similar stuff." Tom Stovall
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RE:WCB proposal to the AFA 16 Mar 2007 13:20 #53

  • Gary_Miller
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Ok Andrew here is the first question you asked.

• THE NAME and LOGO of the WCB organization is misleading as it
associated with and representative of the long established 28 year old
COMPETITION HELD AT THE CALGARY STAMPEDE


This question is no relevent to the proposal at all., What the group calls it self should be of no concern to the AFA.

However here is you answer.

No not at all. The World Champion Blacksmiths is an association, and the the World Champion Blacksmith Competition is an event. Two totaly diffent things.

Also in talking with Criag the use of the name was not only ran by the WCB Competition committe. But was also suggested by one of their principals.
Gary Miller, PF

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RE:WCB proposal to the AFA 16 Mar 2007 13:43 #54

Gary_Miller wrote:
Ok Andrew here is the first question you asked.

• THE NAME and LOGO of the WCB organization is misleading as it
associated with and representative of the long established 28 year old
COMPETITION HELD AT THE CALGARY STAMPEDE


This question is no relevent to the proposal at all., What the group calls it self should be of no concern to the AFA.

However here is you answer.

No not at all. The World Champion Blacksmiths is an association, and the the World Champion Blacksmith Competition is an event. Two totaly diffent things.

Also in talking with Criag the use of the name was not only ran by the WCB Competition committe. But was also suggested by one of their principals.

That depends!! Only not important if the original party does not have a problem with it. Donald Trump took extreme measures to protect "Your Fired". A little company used that phrase before he did, however it was not protected and he wanted it. They had to stop useing it.

I think being proactive about the issue is important. Many issues have come up in the AFA, they do not need another battle.

The first time I recieved info on WCB in the mail I thought it was part of the original World Champion Blacksmith held in Calgary. This is very misleading, learned it was a different deal by asking around.
Phil Armitage, CF
AFA member 7480

"Anyone who proposes to do good must not expect people to roll stones out of his way, but must accept his lot calmly if they even roll a few more upon it." Albert Schweitzer
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RE:WCB proposal to the AFA 16 Mar 2007 13:43 #55

  • George Geist
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By what Jaye says that WCB being a chapter of AFA tends to complicate this, could the situation be made to work if they were to withdraw from being a chapter?

I really don't know why they found it necessary to do that anyway beyond playing politics. For the most part the memberships of the two groups draws from the same pool of people anyway.
George
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RE:WCB proposal to the AFA 16 Mar 2007 14:54 #56

  • BS-Horseshoeing
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Remember guys, Calgary is in CANADA. There is probably no reason to worry about the name except as far as recognition.
Ben Sturman
AFA CF #7558

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RE:WCB proposal to the AFA 16 Mar 2007 15:02 #57

  • tbloomer
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Gary_Miller wrote:
No at all the World Champion Blacksmiths is an association, and the the World Champion Blacksmith Competition is an event. Two totaly diffent things.
The World Champoin Blacksmith title goes to the competitor that wins the forging competition at Calgary.

Now there will also be a World Championship Blacksmiths' association champion. Presumably, if the WCB association takes over the AFA convention competition, the WCB association champion would also be the AFA champion. However, the World Champion Blacksmith TITLE and TROPHY will still be decided at Calgary.

The Calgary world championship does not require membership in any association. Therefore, it is possible that the winner of the TITLE "World Champion Blacksmith" will be won by a person who is not the WCB association champion.

Title: World Champoinship Blacksmiths' Champion
vs.
Title: World Champion Blacksmith

To the casual observer, the distinction might be lost. Does anybody think the lost distinction was intentionally sought by the WCB?

Maybe there ought to be a title given at the end of every competition called Today's World Champ Blacksmith. ;)
Tom Bloomer
http://blackburnforge.com
302-222-6404


Here's the deal. I'm trying to keep it simple.
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RE:WCB proposal to the AFA 16 Mar 2007 16:33 #58

  • beslagsmed
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Craig Trnka wrote:
Andrew,
You must think that the WCB wants to take the AFA convention and make millions of dollars that the AFA will surely miss out on. The WCB feels that there dosen't need to be 4 years of turmoil figuring out which outfit is the best until we have another BWFA, Guild, or barefooter assoc. We want to be a part of the AFA. The competitors want to be a part of the AFA. It's simple man we do it just like the FIA did it on the marketplace. The contest has been put on for more than thirty years and they have never owned a forge or an anvil or a vise. It's not like you are taking a risk. If the WCB fails you have everybody haul their rigs thousands of miles like they did the last 30 years.

Craig Trnka

Craig,
You have a point. I went to my first competition this past weekend here in Denmark. All the forges, anvils and stands, water buckets were provided. This made it east for those guys coming from Holland, France and other Nordic countries. I believe this would be a plus for the AFA convention if all was furnished.

The real questions: are the anvil stands the right hight; how does the anvil you use daily compare to the one you would use at the competition; how does the forge heat compared to yours?

Mikel
Mikel Dawson, RJF

(Denmark)
What part of "NO" don't you understand!!

Caution: Watch for hoof in mouth disease!!!
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RE:WCB proposal to the AFA 16 Mar 2007 23:06 #59

  • Craig Trnka
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Mike,
Cool a question? The anvils are in a sand block with a lid that barely fits in the top. Sand can be added or removed to suit the individuals desire of height and then retightened in just minutes.

Jaye,
I have a cool picture that I want to put on my profile (Not as cool as yours) but I suck and can't make it work. People gotta be giving you @#$% about that. You are one funny dude! Good insight on the who situation though.
Roy,
Thanks for putting the proposal on dude!
Andrew,
Kyle and Jill have toddlers and the traveling was not working. They decide to spend more time in the family venue. My mother has quite asking me when I'm going to get a real job and joined forces with us. She is a retired CPA and looking forward to the 5 sites this year. Question 1. The name--We did countless conference calls to come up with the name. Marshall helped us with the name. You were up at Calgary last year, we spent a few hours in Don's office over the name. If Clagary decides to pursue the name we will let you all know. How about "Ned the 3rd grade reader and his friends" It dosen't matter. We are here for long term business. You seem to be worried about our stability? If you look at my resume does something stand out that says "I'm a quitter" I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer but feel that I will live in a cardboard box before I let down the people I have committed to down. Do you feel that the people that we are associated with are quitters? You act like we are a start up company with no experience. This happens to be the only field I do have experience in. We have Insurance. If you want event or convention insurance we would be happy to use the same form as the FIA uses as a model.
When you take the first 2 pieces of bread out of a loaf are you certain they will make a sandwich? Do the pieces have any experience? Putting together a contest is not exactly something that is strange to me, or all the people that are associated with the WCB.

Next question that you feel that I am being evasive on?

Craig Trnka
"I have never seen a barefoot trimmer that was barefoot." Me
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RE:WCB proposal to the AFA 16 Mar 2007 23:34 #60

  • solidrockshoer
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imo- The snowball has started rolling. The afa needs to figure something out before it gets too big. Its nice to see the president elect asking these questions, somebody has too. But, if the afa doesn't do something relatively soon, the wcb won't be asking to be part of the afa convention. They'll just do there own thing and nobody will show up for the afa contest. Would anybody disagree that you will learn more at one wcb contest than at one local contest?

Craig- One thing that I'm sure concerns a lot of people is. How many different ways do you intend to make money off the afa? Aren't you already selling clothes for the afa?
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