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Poll: Should the AFA turn the national championship and team selection over to the WCB?

es 20 28.2%
o 24 33.8%
eed more information 17 23.9%
on\'t care 10 14.1%
Total number of voters: 43 ( eddiemarcus37 ) See more
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TOPIC: WCB proposal to the AFA

RE:WCB proposal to the AFA 24 Mar 2007 14:45 #166

  • J.H. shoeing
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you can schedule the flight out of ATL, this week is good with me. send ticket confirmation and itenerary to jhshoeing at yahoo.com.

are you going to pick me up at the airport or do I need a rental?
Jeff Holder

Some people are like Slinky’s, pretty much useless but make you smile when you push them down the stairs.
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RE:WCB proposal to the AFA 24 Mar 2007 15:04 #167

  • AndrewCJF
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Jeff,

I am KY this week. What days are good for you next week? Anytime from April 4th on is good for me. Let me know specifics and I will book flight. PM your address and phone for ticket details. I will pick up at Albany Airport.

Thanks, Andrew.
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RE:WCB proposal to the AFA 24 Mar 2007 15:04 #168

  • tbloomer
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J.H. shoeing wrote:
I think the truth of the matter is that andrew doesn't want Craig Trnka and Jeff Ridley to have the contest at all. No matter that the AFA looses money on it and better management could make it a money maker. Just a little chest thumping from andrew trying to show everyone he is in charge and really powerless.
My suggestions for the WCB offering "invitational" contests and waiting until they had established a competition circuit were offered as a result of a telephone call I got from Andrew where he explained to me some of his concerns about handing the AFA contest over to the WCB.

Concern #1: Handing over an established contest to a non-established competition circuit. This would be a bad management decision no matter how you look at it. If the concept of the circuit works, the decision is factored on a known quantity instead of an idea.

Concern #2: Some folks only compete occasionally. Might go for years, not compete, then decide to enter the competition at the AFA convention just for fun, just this one time. The WCB proposal is not very accomodating to this situation. That's why I suggested the invitational concept - give 'em a tast to see if they want to committ. Sort of like a pro/am golf tournament. Now, I'm talking about letting the individual experience the circuit first hand, before making a financial, travel, and time comittmemt to joining the circuit and participating.
Tom Bloomer
http://blackburnforge.com
302-222-6404


Here's the deal. I'm trying to keep it simple.
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RE:WCB proposal to the AFA 24 Mar 2007 15:31 #169

  • beslagsmed
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JStamier wrote:
Mikel et al...

I am new to this chat board. I'd be interterested in trying to get one of those foreign slots too. I too am trying to get more information. I read the Roy Amral posted do***ent but I couldn't find wher the answers are. Can you help me. Also will this be on TV sounds exciting event. Thanxs for timeand help cant wait to lern more. Jacques Stamier (Switz)

Jacques,
Welcome to the boards. Get ready for a real ride. Make sure you got your beer and popcorn handy because it can be very entertaining. It can be very educational as well. I don't know about getting a foreign slot for myself right now as I am taken up with this Danish Certification thing right now. But anything I can do to help you, just give me an e-mail and I will do my best.

Mikel
Mikel Dawson, RJF

(Denmark)
What part of "NO" don't you understand!!

Caution: Watch for hoof in mouth disease!!!
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RE:WCB proposal to the AFA 24 Mar 2007 15:43 #170

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tbloomer wrote:
Concern #2: Some folks only compete occasionally. Might go for years, not compete, then decide to enter the competition at the AFA convention just for fun, just this one time. The WCB proposal is not very accomodating to this situation. That's why I suggested the invitational concept - give 'em a tast to see if they want to committ. Sort of like a pro/am golf tournament. Now, I'm talking about letting the individual experience the circuit first hand, before making a financial, travel, and time comittmemt to joining the circuit and participating.

This is the catagory I would fit in. If there could be a reasonable cost for the "pro/am" invitational I think it would be more acceptable. Maybe if the AFA convention was the invitational, this would really beaf it up a bit. Then a guy like me, OCONUS could hit the convention, have a chance at the WCB contest all at the same time. I know it isn't only me thinking about travel costs, as North America is big and it is a commitment coming from Canada or the North East to let's say New Mexico. Where I don't have to arrange for anvil and such like I would now, hand tools are no problem on a plane.

Mikel
Mikel Dawson, RJF

(Denmark)
What part of "NO" don't you understand!!

Caution: Watch for hoof in mouth disease!!!
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RE:WCB proposal to the AFA 24 Mar 2007 16:39 #171

  • George Geist
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Jeff and Andrew,
It is my hope that if you 2 guys meet you'll get past this little misunderstanding, shake hands, sit down and break bread together and there be no hard feelings. We're all horseshoers here. Lets try to remember that this trade is a brotherhood. We all shed blood, sweat, and tears at the same pursuit which eventually all ends up in the same big manure pit.

Now, on to another question. I wish Danvers was around he's always up on this stuff but since he's been busy lately I guess self appointed spokesman Gary Miller will jump in pretty fast here.

I've heard(understand this is hearsay thats why I'm asking)that the latest AFA convention in Albequerque was the worst attended one to date. I understand that some of the trade show exhibitors scaled back and outright cancelled attending due to there being only about 400 pre-registered.

Can any of you guys tell me if there is any truth to this?
George
For another fun place to play........
www.horseshoersforum.invisionzone.com
Come over and say hello.
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RE:WCB proposal to the AFA 24 Mar 2007 16:56 #172

AndrewCJF wrote:
Jeff,

I am KY this week. What days are good for you next week? Anytime from April 4th on is good for me. Let me know specifics and I will book flight. PM your address and phone for ticket details. I will pick up at Albany Airport.

Thanks, Andrew.
Hey Andrew,

You sound like a generous guy. How about a plane ticket from Austin,TX? I need some practice striking. Anytime in April works for me. LOL, Sarah :p
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RE:WCB proposal to the AFA 24 Mar 2007 17:03 #173

  • T.N. Trosin
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George Geist wrote:
I've heard(understand this is hearsay thats why I'm asking)that the latest AFA convention in Albequerque was the worst attended one to date. I understand that some of the trade show exhibitors scaled back and outright cancelled attending due to there being only about 400 pre-registered.

Can any of you guys tell me if there is any truth to this?
George
Keep in mind I don't know about the pre-regs.
I don't think so George. We had 900 something plus the internationals, plus the FIA and horseman we ended up somewhere in the 1,300 to 1,400 total range, but thats just a guess. What I do know is that the AFA had to contact a 3rd hotel for rooms becuase both hotel blocks sold out then re-sold out after the block additions. Alb is always a light attendance convention and I think that this was actually the best attended Alb convention. I know that we had good speekers and a nice turn out.
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RE:WCB proposal to the AFA 24 Mar 2007 17:05 #174

  • George Geist
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Ok Tom,
Thanks for the info
George
For another fun place to play........
www.horseshoersforum.invisionzone.com
Come over and say hello.
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RE:WCB proposal to the AFA 25 Mar 2007 02:37 #175

  • Gary_Miller
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AndrewCJF wrote:
Craig, is Gary Miller the official WCB spokesman? Is he a principle acting on your behalf? If so, please announce it to the public, otherwise,
George Geist wrote:
I guess self appointed spokesman Gary Miller will jump in pretty fast here.
OK Andrew and George. Lets just cut to the chase. First of all I'm not the offical spokesman for the WCB nor I'm I afiliated with them is anyway. However, Andrew I'm fulfilling a promise I made to you that I would answer or get the answer to all the questions you asked in the proposal. You are the one who asked me to answer these questions because you said "since nobody else has been able to". As I promised you I will continue to answer each and every question.AndrewCJF wrote:
we are growing tired of his sarcastic non-answers to the pertinent and relevant facts.
I have been provideng you with honest and forth right answers. I'm sorry if the answers have not been what you want to hear. But such is life. We don't always get what we want. They have however been honest answers of how I see the situation.
That you can't except the answers is your problem. If you don't like the answer don't ask the question, or redefine your question.
Also some of the questions you asked is not relevent or pertinent to the proposal by the WCB. And some are no ones buisness except the WCBs.
AndrewCJF wrote:
Really Craig, it’s hard to believe that a 2 year member is all the WCB could find to lead its charge to exploit the AFA assets that volunteers have dedicated three decades of time and energy to developing.
I find it hard to believe that the new President Elect would make such a comment about a member of the AFA no matter how long they have been a member. It's comments like this that make people think twice about renewing their membership.

And you have yet to answer my question on how the contest is a AFA asset and not a liability.
Gary Miller, PF

Ride hard, shoot straight, and always speak the truth.
Gunfighter Motto

"Our level of quality is how well our eye can see it." (Eric Russell, Oct 2008, Horseshoes.com)

"Discover what it is that makes you passionate then grab a firm...
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RE:WCB proposal to the AFA 25 Mar 2007 03:07 #176

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T.N. Trosin wrote:
My email address is published in the directory, in each NHNH since December, and can be found as far as I know not only on this site, but americanfarriers.org and westernstatesfarriers.org

Yet I hear nothing from the membership.
Tom
I'm not sure. But could it be because of the following statements you made on the AFA Boards last December.

Re:Board Restructuring Committee
« Reply #44 on: December 08, 2006, 02:11:12 AM »

Gary:

With all due respect, last I looked I am not accountable to a general AFA member form Emmet Idaho.

The people I am accountable to (in order)

1. The general membership of the WSFA
2. The AFA membership of the WSFA
3. The AFA Board of Directors
4. The Executive Committee of the AFA


Re:Board Restructuring Committee
« Reply #47 on: December 08, 2006, 12:24:30 PM »

I think your right Rick, but the fact of the matter is that the general membership of my association votes for president of my association, not just the AFA members So therefore of course I am accountable to my own assocition membership first.

Here's the irony, if we were currently regionlized and I was on the board, I along with 2 other people would be accountable to Mr. Miller. But at this percise moment I am not, and I refuse to answer questions when I know that they are not sincere.

With an attitude like this why would anyone want to contact you.

Sorry, just call it as I see it.
Gary Miller, PF

Ride hard, shoot straight, and always speak the truth.
Gunfighter Motto

"Our level of quality is how well our eye can see it." (Eric Russell, Oct 2008, Horseshoes.com)

"Discover what it is that makes you passionate then grab a firm...
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RE:WCB proposal to the AFA 25 Mar 2007 11:50 #177

  • Tom Stovall CJF
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fairweatherforge in gray

Tom, the afa role.

Its a mess.


I think quite a few folks are trying to help the AFA move, kicking and screaming, into the 21st Century. As I see it, the AFA's divesting itself of the baggage of a useless contest and shoeing team and concentrating its resources on making the public aware of the certification program would be an excellent move.

Certification is useless.

AFA certification gives an owner the choice between someone who has demonstrated they know which way to turn a nail and someone who hasn't. A small thing, perhaps, but it beats the hell out of the feed store bulletin board, guru sponsored ignorance, or trendy stable ******ity. Unfortunately, the public doesn't know they have a choice because the AFA has been touting contests instead of making the public aware of its certification program.

I mention to Jaye Perry that he should make me up a written test. I suggest the same to you.

Me'n Bro Jaye would probably get to passing the jug around and might not be able to pass our own test - but we'd have fun taking it. I digress: What was the question? :)

The website is just ******.

I'll certainly agree that the website could use a little work. The magazine took a while aborning, but Rob and Danvers did a jam-up job. I have no doubts a similar reformation will take place at the website, but it'll take a little time.

So much needs to be corrected. I'm not gonna do it. Are you?

Every journey begins with a single step. I don't know how much I'm going to get done, but I'm going to help out.
Tom Stovall, CJF
"The only foolish question is the one left unasked."
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RE:WCB proposal to the AFA 25 Mar 2007 12:31 #178

The image of Mr. Tom and Uncle Jaye sitting on a porch passing the jug... All I saw was Augustus Mcrae kicking at pigs while Capt Call cleans his rifle...
Jason
"Always listen to the experts. They tell you what can't be done, and why. Then do it." Robert Heinlien
Jason Maki CJF, RJF
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RE:WCB proposal to the AFA 25 Mar 2007 12:48 #179

  • Tom Stovall CJF
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AndrewCJF in gray, deletia

OK Craig, if you really want to save the AFA money, like you say…..will the WCB be funding the AFT?

Your argument appears to be that the AFT is a necessary expenditure instead of an ongoing waste of the AFA's fiscal and human resources.

Surely you agree that would be the right thing to do if your proposal is accepted. After all, which has the most educational value to the most people: 60+ people getting ready to go to the convention and compete or 4 people being flown around the country practicing to go to England?

Your question is illogical because it asks for only two answers when more are possible. It can be argued there is no educational value in any contest and folks perparing for contest and/or flying hither, tither, and yon are matter of disinterest. On the basis of the most fiscal or educational bang for the buck, the "right" thing to do is to scráp the contest and the AFT. If another entity wants to assume responsiblity for those liabilities, good on 'em.

Now don’t get me wrong, I support the AFA Contest and AFT fully and will do everything in my power to retain full control of those collective assets for the AFA.

Why? With all due respect, by any fiscal or educational definition, the AFA contest and AFT are liabilities, not assets.

Craig, I just don’t like it when somebody *******e*s down my neck and tells me its raining…..

How exactly does a liability magically become an asset by virtue of your saying so when the balance sheet says otherwise?

On that note Craig, if you really do want to save the AFA money like you say you do, then will you be signing a non-compete clause for past, existing and present AFA sponsors?

Why would anyone be silly enough to do that? Sponsors determine where their money goes, not supplicants.

You say you don’t want to take money away from the AFA you want to save them money; in good faith, this should be first on the WCB proposal. Really now Craig, it shouldn’t be too hard of a decision since the FIA voted against the WCB motion.

Apples and oranges. If the AFA really wants to stop going into the hole, the first order of business is to quit digging.
Tom Stovall, CJF
"The only foolish question is the one left unasked."
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RE:WCB proposal to the AFA 25 Mar 2007 14:06 #180

  • reillyshoe
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I have never attended the AFA conference, but out of curiosity, is the contest considered to be an educational event? If the answer is "not really" then it might seem out of line with the 501c status to devote resources to an event that a relatively small percentage of the membership participates in and consumes resources of the AFA.
For instance, if the loss of putting on the contest (I think I read $30,000) was redistributed to promote forging how-to clinics around the country, wouldn't that seem to be more in line with the evolved (tax wise) purpose of the AFA?
This is a non member, out of the loop suggestion, but could the WBC committ the winners of the regional contests time towards volunteering these workshops as part of a compromise deal? The AFA gets "free" education for the masses, the WBC gets to run the contest (and make money if it is able). As I see it, the WBC contestants would agree to the stipulation of putting on free clinics in advance- kind of like Ms America agreeing to do promotions if she wins the crown- it is part of the package of winning (with the Stonewell).
The regional winners put on regional clinics and the national winners could put on demos and/or lectures at the AFA conference.
P
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