I waited this long to bring this up because I was hoping that someone on the EC would have by now informed the membership of this important action. since nothing has been said or done and nothing has appeared on the AFA website,.......

The members of the EC, absent Mr. Ferguson, sent an official request to Mr. Ferguson requesting that he resign from office. This request was forwarded to the BoD so that they at least have been kept relatively informed.

As of this writing, Mr. Ferguson has declined to step aside.

While this issue has not yet been added to the agenda for discussion at the BoD meeting, it is apparently under consideration by several BoD members.

Rick Burten in gray

The members of the EC, absent Mr. Ferguson, sent an official request to Mr. Ferguson requesting that he resign from office. This request was forwarded to the BoD so that they at least have been kept relatively informed.

As of this writing, Mr. Ferguson has declined to step aside.

While this issue has not yet been added to the agenda for discussion at the BoD meeting, it is apparently under consideration by several BoD members.

Does the AFA's president serve at the pleasure of the EC and/or BoD?

If the president resigns, who is next in line for the presidency? The sitting vice-president?

As I understand it, the AFA president is required to hold a CJF credential: What if the person next in line for the presidency does not meet the CJF requirement?

Would the person next in order of succession (presumably, the vice-president) be passed over because he does not meet one of the requirements necessary to hold the office of president? If the vice-president is passed over, who is next in order of succession?

Has the legislative body of the AFA indicated they plan to change the CJF requirement for the office of president in the foreseeable future?

What if an elected vice-president, who does not meet the criteria to hold office the office of president, chooses to embroil the AFA in a legal battle over succession?

As an interested spectator who is considering membership, I think it might be a good idea to resolve this particular, "What if", before it becomes a, "What'n hell are we gonna do now?"

Honestly Rick, I find this to be a travisty. Needed or not, a travisty for the whole AFA.
Here are a whole buch of questions that flow through my mind concerning this. Some have been answered some haven't.

Like back when President Nixon was removed from office.
He followed the advice of the folks he put in charge and made decisions on their input.
He paid the ultimate price for the rest of his life.
Yes Watergate was awful but he was made the scape goat to appeaze (spelling ?) the hordes of people who had been fed the agenda that it was all Richard Nixons fault.

People forget quickly the good Richard Nixon did in opening up relations with China and beginning all the finacial trading going on today.
The years of his commitment and work getting to the presidency.

Yes ! Dave made some awful mistakes. Dave knows this.
(this is why I actually like the idea of new presidents being on board ahead of time and get on job training and insight into the job and how to work with the BOD and the EC)
So much focus on his taping phone converstions.
Not much said about others who were on line also. (bits and pieces here and there)
Did anyone speak up and say this is wrong and alert other party immediately ? Key word is immediately. Not days after. Not when it became apparent that there was going to be huge flac from this event. or say DAVE this is wrong and needs to be approved by other officers ?
Why aren't other heads rolling ?

Is his removal the best thing for the majority ?
Can his staying in office continue to hurt the progress of the AFA ?
Will his removal correct all the problems that have been faced during his term ?
Or will a change of attitude on everyones part make a difference ?
Has everyone become so gun shy that no one will work with him anymore ? thus making him disfunctional ?

Will the person who replaces him fair better ?
Will his replacement be a favorite son so everyone is content ?

What other changes will be made to improve the working relations of President and officers of EC and BOD ?

Being President is an awful responcibility, not to be taken lightly by anyone seeking the office.
The president bears the responcibility of others along with himself, BUT others bear the responciblity also.

I think, if Dave is removed from office, then every person, Dave included, should ask himself;
What could I have done to have made this a less hectic year.
Do I bear some responcibility for allowing the past things to have happened or continued to happen.
Was I a team player or did I react as an individual at the many proceedings.
Did I let personality conflicts enter into decisions I made ?

Will this fade away and then the new regime fall back into complacity ? or will lessons be learned and remembered from mistakes made.

I have spoken with a number of folks who said there have been problems with Presidents trying to get things done for more than the last 3 terms.
Why do you think this is ?
Why are some of the past presidents no longer AFA members ?

Bottom line is I hate the idea of a scape goat. Even if he made the mistakes, there are others who allowed it to happen and bear the same responcibility in my book.

I admire folks who stand up and own up to mistakes.

Just my thoughts;

Rick,

Thanks for keeping us informed. As you already know, I think this sort of thing should be in the open for the membership to see. Don't really see how this is much different than Mike's resig. but we have already agreed to disagree on that one...so as you would say..."apples and oranges."
(Hope you can sense the light heartedness)

Thanks!!!

Bruce,

I personally do not like a scape goat either, but that isn't what we have here.
Scape goats are bystanders who catch the blame. You know as well as I do, it only takes one apple to spoil the bunch. I think that the EC is absolutely making the right decision. We must move forward....this is the first step!!

JMO

Bo

Bo,

Scape goat to me, is ANYONE who takes the blame, when I think others should have stood up and said, I am to blame for letting this happen, or I am also to blame because I could have nipped this in the bud.

To say one person is totally at fault just doesn't sit well in my craw.

At this time and place I do believe, because so much water has gone under the bridge, and I also believe that it is a no win situation at this point, that Daves resignation would be in the best interest of getting things moving.

I was one who voted for Dave. I believed in Dave and his visions.
I believed in the man.
My heart goes out to his family and to Dave for all that has surpassed.
Bad judgement has been the downfall of many a person.
But bad judgement was made by a number of folks and I don't hear anyone owning up to it.

What is the old adage ?
To err is human to forgive is ?

I am really not being an advocate for Dave. I would be saying this if we had the exact situation and someone else was in Dave's seat.

JMO

vthorseshoe in gray, deletia

Like back when President Nixon was removed from office.

Nixon wasn't removed from office, he resigned.

He followed the advice of the folks he put in charge and made decisions on their input.

Nixon, like each and every one of us, was personally responsible for his decisions, good or bad. Remember the sign on Truman's desk? "The buck stops here." Evidently, Nixon thought the concept was outmoded.

He paid the ultimate price for the rest of his life.

Death is the ultimate price, Nixon was merely humiliated.

Yes Watergate was awful but he was made the scape goat to appeaze (spelling ?) the hordes of people who had been fed the agenda that it was all Richard Nixons fault.

Nixon was no scapegoat! He, like all of us, was personally responsible for his actions. Watergate happened on his watch and with his prior knowledge.

People forget quickly the good Richard Nixon did in opening up relations with China and beginning all the finacial trading going on today.

Personally, I don't think Nixon did America any favors by allowing China to flood our borders with cheaply made stuff, but I have no doubts that Big Business and multinational corporations must sing his praises every morning. On the other hand, small businessmen and manufacturers whose factories and stores went belly up because of China's "Most favored nation" trading status probably aren't in the choir.

The years of his commitment and work getting to the presidency.

Nixon was committed to Big Business, the Republican Party, the military/industrial complex, and, most of all, to himself. If there's a hell, it's my feverent hope that he sizzles painfully.

Yes ! Dave made some awful mistakes. Dave knows this.

Apples and oranges. The damage Nixon caused was incalcuable and his legacy is that he personally made the American public aware that our government will lie to us whenever it's expedient. Small wonder that many credit Nixon with fathering a nation of cynics. A pox on his house!

Valid points Tom, a bit one sided maybe.

I pulled up Richard Nixon to refresh my memory ( Dwight Eisenhower was in office when I was growing up) the list of Nixon's accomplisments are many while in his political carreer and while in office as President.

Nixon succeeded in ending American fighting in Viet Nam and improving relations with the U.S.S.R. and China.
His accomplishments while in office included revenue sharing, the end of the draft, new anticrime laws, and a broad environmental program. As he had promised, he appointed Justices of conservative philosophy to the Supreme Court. One of the most dramatic events of his first term occurred in 1969, when American astronauts made the first moon landing.

Some of his most acclaimed achievements came in his quest for world stability. During visits in 1972 to Beijing and Moscow, he reduced tensions with China and the U.S.S.R. His summit meetings with Russian leader Leonid I. Brezhnev produced a treaty to limit strategic nuclear weapons. In January 1973, he announced an accord with North Viet Nam to end American involvement in Indochina. In 1974, his Secretary of State, Henry Kissinger, negotiated disengagement agreements between Israel and its opponents, Egypt and Syria.

Your apparent dislike for the man is noted.

Yes he did resign.

He made the mistake in approving the actions of others.
Your right the buck stops here. I agree with that.
He was ultimately responcible because of his office.

For one bad judgement he was condemed by the masses for the rest of his life.

Should we consider Bill Clinton for his disgression in the White house ?

Was Lyndon Johnson in cahoots with the mafia ? and a part of the instramentation of Kennedy's assassination ?

Humans make mistakes and will continue to make mistakes as long as we inhabit this planet.

We getting off the political subject so I will end it here.

Rick Burten wrote:
Well, it's about damn time ! And what epiphany occured to make that happen ?

Is ANYONE surprised?.....it took him forever to own up to his actions in the first place

ALL BoD members should consider it, get it over with, and allow the AFA to move forward with someone who can lead without all of the BS that has plagued the AFA for the last year

Tom Stovall raised some interesting points, but none that can't be quickly addressed so there are no hitches when Dave is removed

Derin

I do not believe the AFA membership was wrong in voting Dave in. I feel the cards were stacked against him from the very being within the EC itself and the rest of us be d**ed. We were told by the Trnka administration that the 'train' was going to roll right on through regardless of us all. And 4 people belonging to the last administration are still part of the EC and have tried very hard to get Dave to resign, regardless of the cost. Is he the best man for the job....better than the alternative.

In 1983 the American Farriers Journal published an interview with Walt Taylor. He was advocately licensing and AFA control of the farrier schools in this country. One of his major financial supporters has always been one of Britain's versions of PETA, the International League for the Protection of Horses. Fast forward to 2003/4/5/6 .....deja vu.

Mr. Taylor is definitely a force to be reckoned, and although we do have him to thank for this association we have now, I do strongly feel it is time for him to step down and let others take the helm. The AFA needs to go in a forward, futurist direction with positive proaction. Right or wrong, we should at least stand behind the man we elected and insist he be given the chance to do the job.

I will be very glad to see Mr. Taylor, Mr. Nolan, Mr. Earle & Mr. Trnka leave in 40+ days. They have kept the chaos going to advance their own agenda, and I do not appreciate paying for this kind of nonsense ! The last time we had strong leadership was with Randy Luikart, he advanced this association forward within the chapters and with the AAEP and the USDA, but we have been on a downhill slide ever since.

Dave and John are doing a GREAT JOB with the deck stacked against them and I hope they keep up the good work ! Whatever I can do to help, just let me know !

Debora Ash #2403

Tom Stovall, CJF wrote: The President is elected by the membership but can be removed, with or without cause, by the BoD,Until after this election, yes. Then it would be the President-Elect.I don't have the answer to that conundrum.Again, I don't have that answer.Sorry, but I don't have the answer to that question either.That would be a matter for the AFA's General Counsel.Not a bad idea. I'm not sure, under the current legislative structure, how that could be accomplished before the Annual Meeting, and then only if the items are already on the agenda for discussion. This is but another reason why a restructuring of the BoD is going to be so important to the future health and growth of the AFA.

Rick

Derin Foor wrote: I believe the final straw was the premature resignation of the Acting ED and the direct implication by Mr. Nolan, of Mr. Ferguson, in that action.In order to be considered at the Annual Convention in February, the action must be placed on the agenda by at least one BoD representative. This must occur I beleive before the end of this month. The agenda item must be sent in writing, to the AFA office. It does not need a 'second' to be included on the meeting agenda.

Rick

Rick Burten wrote:
This all got cussed and discussed at the mid-year meeting and no action was taken. So... are there new issues that are prompting this call for resignation, or are we re-hashing old ones? In effect, is it "with" or "without" cause, and if it's "with," can we get a list of the specific wrong-doings?

danverschild wrote: Why not address this question to the other members of the EC?

Anyway, as I said earlier(like two posts ago, first sentence of my reply ) as it was related to me, the main cause of the latest action was the premature resignation of Mike Nolan, Acting ED. In his letter of resignation(available on these foums, en toto) Mr. Nolan listed Mr. Ferguson and his antics towards Mr. Nolan(if not others) as the reason Mr. Nolan was giving two weeks notice(Monday 15Jan2007 was his last day with the AFA) rather than leaving the AFA, as planned and previously published, at the beginning of May 2007.

Rick

Tom Stovall, wrote:
Taken grossly out of context, if you were to act afermitivly uopn your cosideration of membership, the Assoscaition may then ask what you have in your final sentence above.
If you would join Tom, wear new boots as there are plenty of butts to be kicked!

Bruce,
Nixon and Clinton were guilty of using their office and power to lie and cover the lies and in doing so, denied consitutional rights to induvidules protected by the consitution they were sworn to uphold.
Bill

Bill, Hows the weather in your area ? Below zero here this morning and chill factor is much worse.

Looks pretty bad across the country except Florida. My sister said it was in 70's a day ago when I spoke with her on the phone.

Clinton and Nixon; Yes they got caught telling lies to cover up. Both of them.

The difference between them and other politicians in Washington is they were caught.

Yes Tom I know a bold statement on my part with no way to back it up. But I think if a concensus was taken it would keep floating.

It is interesting that Walt Taylors name has come up.
Never met the man, wouldn't know him if I walked into him on the street.
All I can relate to Mr. Taylor and some others is the fact they were the founders of the AFA. Thankyou

I know that with many of the controversial topics I have listened to,. If it goes to any real depth, someone eventually brings up Walt Taylor and the influence he still wields ?
Can a person who was a founding father,
(he isn't certified is he ? I have the impression you need to be a CJF to have a position of power in this association) and does a really good job of staying out of the lime-light, really wield so much power, that he is an influence on the workings of the AFA ? (and I only make this remark because it has been made to me in conversations. I don't know if he does or doesn't and thus why I am asking)If Mr. Taylor is such an influence then why don't we hear from him ?
Why don't others mention his name on the forum or other venue's ?
Why when I do hear his name mentioned it is kinda hush hush ?

I really would like someone help me understand this if anyone can.