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TOPIC: AFA Exec. Director Resigns

RE:AFA Exec. Director Resigns 26 Jan 2007 12:20 #91

Andy,

First, before you start slinging your brand of mud and making accusations perhaps you would have the curtsy of going over to the candidates section and answering the questions that you have so rudely ignored to date. I think everyone would like to see how well you actually interact with those that do question you, or perhaps you are more of the same imperial leadership school as Mr. Ferguson, you know the one that does not feel a need to interact with anyone that might question your opinion on anything.

AndrewCJF] A FACT OF THE MATTER: RT Goodrich had the same reading comprehension problem as you Ron. I asked that he fix it, he did and apologised.[/quote]

Just so everyone knows what you are talking about here, in RT’s letter to the BoD announcing his withdrawal from the race for Vice President he made a statement about Mr. Elesbre’s commitment to Mr. Ferguson’s platform. Mr. Elesbre took exception to it. The following are excerpts containing the salient verbage.Goodrich] As President Elect, Andrew Elsbree has pledged to promote the goals of the current Administration[/quote]
elesbre wrote:
RT,
"Pledged" is a very strong word.... Have we had any communications? Where and what pledge are you referring to? Please respond and clear this up immediately.
Goodrich wrote:
This was in no way meant as a slam. If "pledged is the wrong wording then I am truly sorry. In the Sept/Oct Professional Farrier you were asked WHY DID YOU DECIDE TO RUN FOR OFFICE? YOUR RESPONSE WAS AND I QUOTE"I DECIDED TO RUN FOR OFFICE TO SUPPORT, AND BRING TO LIFE, THE NEW ADMINISTRATIONS VISION FOR THE AFA." I am sorry I said "pledged rather than "support, and bring to life." Since my letter was not about you I didn't feel the need to go into great detail about any candidates platform.
It seems to me that your splitting hairs over this because you do not want to be seem as pledged to anything that might allow Mr. Ferguson’s current misadventures to harm your candidacy. Not because there is a big issue with word choice or intent.
AndrewCJF wrote:
Ronald E. Kramedjian wrote:
Isn’t a large part of the job to be open, inviting and welcoming to non-members in the hope of convincing them to join our association?
FACT: I have always done this in person, in magazines and on television.
I do wish you would listen to the people you interact with more. Every time I turn around when talking to the membership they say “anyone but Elesbre” over and over. When I ask why they tell me their individual horror story about how you have insulted or ignored them or someone they know.
AndrewCJF wrote:
Ron, does Ferguson = the entire AFA administration?[/COLOR]Well when and if Mr. Ferguson ever stops acting like this is true I will stop talking about him as if it is true. Until then I will endeavor in my feeble manner to remind him that AFA does not stand for the American Ferguson Association, it stands for the American Farriers Association.
AndrewCJF wrote:
Ron, it seems as though all you want to portray is the turmoil of the last year and all of Ferguson’s faults.
Why do you feel you need to defend Mr. Ferguson. If he has done nothing wrong there is nothing to defend. Everything that is said about him and his behavior should be seen as absurd on the face of it or if there is something that he needs to correct he should be man enough to correct it for himself and not send his lackys to do it for him.
AndrewCJF wrote:
Whatever the whole story is with the EC is unclear wrote:
There is only one person that I am aware of that is the incendiary source in all this. Should he be removed, just like taking oxygen away from a fire, this fire will go out.
AndrewCJF wrote:
The bottom line is that we are volunteers. I, like many others, have worked for years spending my own money and my own time trying to make the AFA a better place to be for all. The donation of my time and talents to the AFA is not for the advancement of any personal agenda wrote:
Mr. Elsbree, if you were a selfless volunteer as you claim you would not have felt the need to include any of this. The fact, in my view, is that you have never been truly selfless in your efforts. Rather you have given and now that you are once again chasing the Presidency, an office that eluded you when Mr. Trnka ran against you in a write in campaign, you are taking me on instead of having a stand up debate with your opponent and claiming your good acts to make your attack look more righteous in the process.

Now stop hiding behind your attacks on me and be a man, go debate with Rick heads up were we can all watch. At least fight and live or die with a little dignity.
Ronald E. Kramedjian, RJF

Visit the Guild of Professional Farriers, Inc. Website

"What is popular is not always right; what is right is not always popular." Unknown

"In matters of style swim with the current; In matters of principle, stand like a...
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RE:AFA Exec. Director Resigns 26 Jan 2007 13:31 #92

  • Rick Burten
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AndrewCJF wrote:
Actually Rick, here is what I said:
Yes, Andrew that is the full text of one of your replies. How does that materially change what I said? I may have the tatts on my neck, but it is you who are speaking out of both sides of your mouth. Are my quotes of your statements inaccurate? Are they out of context? Do they not directly address/reflect how you have conducted your campaign to this point?
My prior post was in response to Ron K., where's Ron's reply?
By now, I think you will have found, for yourself, the answer to your question. In case you are having trouble with that assignment, you will find his reply at Post #91 of this thread. You might want to note the time of day that you posted your 'missive to Ron' and then when Ron responded. My rudimentary math skills say that the time lag was right at eight hours. Given the lateness of the hour when you posted, I don't think that is such a long stretch of silence, do you? Besides, its a heck of a lot faster and more forthcoming than what has, to date, been your modus operandi.
Furthermore,
Originally Posted by Rick B.
The shenanagans of some of the leadership of the EC, the disloyal and disruptive actions of a prominent member of the AFA acting as a vendor,
... I'm confused..this is not very transparent, nor honest if you know something the rest of don't.
Well Andrew, what can I say? If you had been paying attention to what has been going on in the AFA of late, you would know exactly what I am talking about. But OK, since you might just win the election for President-elect, and if you do, you'll need to be in the loop so that you can perhaps find some way to step up and begin to lead the AFA, the shenanagans I referred to are the actions and activities of Mr. Ferguson and of late, at times, Mr. Blombach. If you want a complete iteration of the "high crimes and misdemeanors" of Mr. Ferguson, you can read about them in the various and sundry e-mail exchanges between the officers of the AFA, the officers and the AFA office, and both here and elsewhere on the internet. The disloyal, self-serving, contract breaking, AFA harming, prominent member of the AFA I referred to is none other than Scott Davidson. Had you been paying attention to the the Ink & Anvil situation you would have known exactly about whom I was referring. I hope that this is transparent and honest enough for even you.

You know what Andrew, anyone can blow sunshine and smoke up everyone's butt and give them warm strokes and fuzzies. It takes men with leadership ability to recognize problems, have the testicular fortitude to speak up and out about them, and to also propose what they believe are viable solutions to the problems, much as both Ron and I have done and will continue to do. You know what I mean, if one of those solutions is to excise the rot, then regardless of how that plays in the media, they say so.

By the way, you have not so adroitly, failed to answer any of the questions I asked, including two that I feel are most important. In case you don't remember the questions, here they are again:

"if a vote was taken today and the membership had all the facts at hand, do you believe that Mr. Ferguson would be retained in office? And to the point, would you vote to retain him in office?"

IMNTBCHO, your response or lack of response to these two questions will go a long way towards helping any undecided voters decide just who they should vote for as the next President of the AFA.

Rick
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In the immortal words of Ron White: "But let me tell you something, folks: You can't fix S-tupid. There's not a pill you can take; there's not a class you can go to. S-tupid is forever."
."


Je pense donc je suis
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RE:AFA Exec. Director Resigns 26 Jan 2007 15:15 #93

Since my name was mentioned I feel the need to respond. Pledgeing or supporting the current administration is no different than one saying they will support the Pres. of the US even if the person elected is not who they voted for.

As for Andrews remarks on non-members, I was a bit confused when it was originaly made here on this forum. However I see where he is comeing from. When I joined the New Hampshire Air National Guard I had an interview first with the Commander. He asked why I wanted to join the Guard. I told him I wanted to be closer to home. He appreciated the honest answer, but told me he prefered to hear because I wanted to part of the Gaurd family and team. I was a kid then and really did not understand where he was comeing from, as time went on I learned what he meant. Andrew is saying the same thing, he would like to get the word out of why a non-member should join the AFA. With that understanding maybe farriers will find value in joining and be a member that wants to be part of a family/team.
Phil Armitage, CF
AFA member 7480

"Anyone who proposes to do good must not expect people to roll stones out of his way, but must accept his lot calmly if they even roll a few more upon it." Albert Schweitzer
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RE:AFA Exec. Director Resigns 26 Jan 2007 18:58 #94

  • Derin Foor
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Ronald E. Kramedjian wrote:
Mr. Elsbree, if you were a selfless volunteer as you claim you would not have felt the need to include any of this. The fact, in my view, is that you have never been truly selfless in your efforts. .

Ron,

You are WAY off base here. Andrew was an examiner last year at a certification that I attended. One of the candidates, a young guy was attempting his journeyman practical exam.... he didnt pass.... Andrew could have said, "better luck next time kid....see ya" Instead he spent a very long time going over the horse with him, what was done right, what was done wrong and instilling a sense of 'you can do it' in this guy since he was visibly upset at not passing..... Andrew's selflessness probably kept this guy from giving up and likely helped to retain him as a member, willing to try again another day. Andrew wasnt looking for a pat on the back, he was simply helping a farrier get better the way someone undoubtedly helped him along the way.

Andrew represented the AFA well that day probably left with a thank you.

At the very least you owe him an apology for questioning his 'selflessness'.

Derin
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RE:AFA Exec. Director Resigns 26 Jan 2007 20:12 #95

  • vthorseshoe
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Derin, I am staying out of the political end of this, but I also want to say;

When I took my CF exam, Andrew was the examiner and After "all" the exams and testing were done , he made every effort to explain and make it clear to folks where they could improve or do better on the next test,
He was never rude or walked away from anyone with a question before or after the testing was done.
During the testing his attitude and deminour (spelling ?) was every bit the professional.
Andrew put everyone at ease and let me tell you I was a nervous willy.
As a tester and represenative of the AFA Andrew was at his best.

Once again this is said without ANY political implication so please don't read anything else into the above.
"you may not like what I say" !
-but-
"you'll never have any doubts where I stand
quote Cindy Matthews 1948-2006


I thought my life had come to a close with Cindy's passing, but there is life after death Thankyou Sharon !

Bruce Matthews
Southeast...
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RE:AFA Exec. Director Resigns 26 Jan 2007 20:18 #96

At the certification I attended Andrew was very willing to help. He is a hard worker and when he is focused on a task or getting things orginized he is very professional. I found Andrew to be very approachable and helpfull. I got a lot of pointers and advice when I went for my certification and I know many others attending got the same thing.
Phil Armitage, CF
AFA member 7480

"Anyone who proposes to do good must not expect people to roll stones out of his way, but must accept his lot calmly if they even roll a few more upon it." Albert Schweitzer
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RE:AFA Exec. Director Resigns 26 Jan 2007 20:38 #97

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C'mon guys (Rick/Ron).......we are all fully aware of your stance on every subject one can possibly post here. But the hostility and arrogance with which you respond is becoming overbearing to say the least. While there are many things that I agree with you on, the lack of concern for others(not just Andrews, but anyones) opinions is rediculous and unwarranted. I think you may be better received to just stick with the facts and how we can better our association than constantly and arrogantly ripping people to shreds. But it's your campaign...proceed how you wish. ;)

I guess what they say is true...When all you have is hammer...eventually everything looks like a nail.

Bo
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RE:AFA Exec. Director Resigns 26 Jan 2007 20:58 #98

  • Rick Burten
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Bo Terry]hile there are many things that I agree with you on, the lack of concern for others(not just Andrews, but anyones) opinions is rediculous and unwarranted. [/quote]
Where have I evidnced a lack of concern for other's opinions? Would you agree that if this were so, I would merely ignore what others say, rather than interact with them?
I think you may be better received to just stick with the facts and how we can better our association than constantly and arrogantly ripping people to shreds.
Have I not presented the facts? Have I/we not offered proposals for bettering the association? Should we let others do as you would have us refrain from doing and merely meekly stand by ? By now I know that you have figured out that is just not my style or personality. Remember, I said at the very start of all this(the campaign that is) that I would'nt change one thing about myself in order to try and get elected. I also promised that I would not leave the forums, rather I would remain true to myself and everyone around me. If that's too real or too honest or too rough for some, that is their problem, not mine. I have oft repeated that like Popeye, "I am what I am and that's all that I am..." Being anything else, presenting a different facade would be disingenuous, discourteous and disrespectful to not only myself, but to everyone else. If that's the kind of leadership you want, then I am obviously not your man.
But it's your campaign...proceed how you wish. wrote:
Yes, that has always been my intent and action.
I guess what they say is true...When all you have is hammer...eventually everything looks like a nail.
What do they say about a pooper scooper or a vacuum?

Rick
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In the immortal words of Ron White: "But let me tell you something, folks: You can't fix S-tupid. There's not a pill you can take; there's not a class you can go to. S-tupid is forever."
."


Je pense donc je suis
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RE:AFA Exec. Director Resigns 28 Jan 2007 15:18 #99

  • AndrewCJF
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Phil, Derin, Bruce & Bo,

Thank you all very much for your postings. I appreciate your kind words and support.

As an Examiner, I have had to deal with members/candidates at highly emotional times during certifications and I have always strived to handle this in a professional, sensitive and caring manner. It is so easy to shake someone’s hand and congratulate them for passing; in fact it's just a great thing! It’s much harder to explain shortcomings and failures AND convince them to keep trying when they feel so low. I spend a lot of time with candidates going over problems and demonstrating just how they can improve areas of the exam that challenge them and/or have caused them to fail. In the end, every candidate understands exactly why he or she failed the exam. But even so, there’s always that someone who is spinning up gravel considering the standard, testers and examiners to be the problem!

I have the highest respect for all those involved in the certification process; candidates, testers, examiners and the people that work so hard to put on these tests and clinics. It is a labor of love for the betterment of our craft within the equine industry.

It was heartwrenching when Ron K. attacked my personality toward AFA members and devastating to learn that any member would feel I ignored them.

I have taken my role as an Examiner to heart and consider truly helping young men and women rise to higher standard both personally and professionally as the MOST important aspect of the job.

Thanks again, Andrew.
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RE:AFA Exec. Director Resigns 28 Jan 2007 15:58 #100

  • tbloomer
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AndrewCJF wrote:
I spend a lot of time with candidates going over problems and demonstrating just how they can improve areas of the exam that challenge them and/or have caused them to fail.
As both an eye witness to and a recipient of Andrew's help and encouragement during my pursuit of AFA certification, I would like to say THANKS ANDY.

Also note that Andy showed up on his own dime to help at two of the certification events I attended. He just dropped in to lend a hand to anyone that needed it. I've twice seen him do a "Johnny on the Spot" free certification clinic . . . and I would have paid good money for the "free" education.

I'm looking forward to his presentation at the IHCS. :)
Tom Bloomer
http://blackburnforge.com
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Here's the deal. I'm trying to keep it simple.
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RE:AFA Exec. Director Resigns 29 Jan 2007 09:00 #101

  • Jaye Perry
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tbloomer wrote:
....
Also note that Andy showed up on his own dime to help at two of the certification events I attended. He just dropped in to lend a hand to anyone that needed it. I've twice seen him do a "Johnny on the Spot" free certification clinic . . . and I would have paid good money for the "free" education.

I'm looking forward to his presentation at the IHCS. :)
Great TOM,

If I can get him to return my PM and or phone call, credence may apply to his so called run for an office.

1/17/07 PM to AndrewCFJ; no or non-response. Some people do not like tenured , hard questions with accompanied phone numbers for explaination of platform.????????
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RE:AFA Exec. Director Resigns 29 Jan 2007 11:46 #102

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Jaye Perry wrote:
Great TOM,

If I can get him to return my PM and or phone call, credence may apply to his so called run for an office.

1/17/07 PM to AndrewCFJ; no or non-response. Some people do not like tenured , hard questions with accompanied phone numbers for explaination of platform.????????
When I see him at the IHCS, I'll call your number on my cell phone and hand it to him. What happens after that is up to you and him. :)
Tom Bloomer
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Here's the deal. I'm trying to keep it simple.
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RE:AFA Exec. Director Resigns 29 Jan 2007 13:45 #103

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Below is the ONLY communication I have received from Jaye Perry. I don't believe in the "15 yr old good ole boy network". I had no questions for Mr. Perry.

I am glad to talk with anybody and answer 100's of emails and phone calls every day. Jaye, here are my numbers, 518 966 5936 or 518 755 4627. To date, I have no record of any incoming phone calls or phone messages from you.

I'd love to talk with you and get to know you. You don't need to make it look like I am avoiding you. The only communication I have from you is below to which I had no rebuttal or questions.

Best regards, Andrew.

MESSAGE FROM JAYE PERRY:

Private Message: politics
01-19-2007, 11:55 PM
Jaye Perry
Very, Very Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Atlanta ; up and down the East Coast
Posts: 1,480

politics


Andrew,


I had a long diatribe to your response. I lost it, but you sound like the same 15 year old Good Ole Boy network that has buried the AFA that is seen today-..

Today, if one looks at the organization, an ever enclosing organization that will only have a select group of membership. Others will move to REAL education and profiteering>

CAll Me if ya have any rebuttal or questions
Jaye Perry
Non- Certified Member, but a member.
404/964-4970
__________________
"Those who assume hypotheses as first principles of their speculation . . . may indeed form an ingenious romance, but a romance it will still be."

-Roger Cotes
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RE:AFA Exec. Director Resigns 30 Jan 2007 01:55 #104

  • Craig Trnka
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Jaye,
I have lots of good ole boys help me. Jack Schwarz was the first person who told me to turn my creaser around. Shayne Carter took me off to the side and taught me how to shoe horses. Danny Ward sent me a check for two hundred dollars and a note that said, "you'll need a lot more than this to make it through your presidency".
I like the good ole boys (and girls) I've never been to a cross burning or a chicken fight. Good ole boys have keep me from starving to death. I owe more than I can repay and those people will always have a favor in me. Good ole boys always come in handy when your out of gas somewhere between Tu***cari and Clovis. I've had more Denali driving excutives write me hot check, than Some good ole boy who comes out of the mobile home with cash. I kind of think of myself as a good ole boy when its time for me to help someone.

As Waylon would say, "Just a good ole boy"

Craig Trnka
"I have never seen a barefoot trimmer that was barefoot." Me
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RE:AFA Exec. Director Resigns 30 Jan 2007 11:33 #105

  • Jaye Perry
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andrew-Jaye, here are my numbers, 518 966 5936 or 518 755 4627. To date, I have no record of any incoming phone calls or phone messages from you.

I'd love to talk with you and get to know you. You don't need to make it look like I am avoiding you. The only communication I have from you is below to which I had no rebuttal or questions.

Got you phone call yesterday in the afternoon. Busy; as we all are I will call you. My message to you went out last Wednesday BTW.
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