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TOPIC: AFA Exec. Director Resigns

RE:AFA Exec. Director Resigns 03 Jan 2007 01:56 #61

  • THamilton
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Highly doubtful at this point in time- IMO. I believe that the BoD is not going to have the cahonies enough to do it. When have they in the past? Why would they start now? They seem to be a passive group that likes to be reactive. Following Tom's advice which I agree with whole heartedly, would mean that they would all have to be on the same side and put away any diffeences so the AFA could move forward.

Are they going to do it? We will see. If the past is any indication of the future, it is hard to believe.
Tony
"Nothing astonishes men so much as common sense and plain dealing" Ralph Waldo Emerson
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RE:AFA Exec. Director Resigns 04 Jan 2007 03:01 #62

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It is up to us to contact our BOD Rep. and tell them what we want accomplished. I challenge everyone to do just that before the convention BOD meeting.

Bo :)
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RE:AFA Exec. Director Resigns 04 Jan 2007 13:11 #63

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Bo Terry wrote:
It is up to us to contact our BOD Rep. and tell them what we want accomplished. I challenge everyone to do just that before the convention BOD meeting.

Bo :)
When you contact your BoD rep, tell him/her to also vote for the re-structuring plan. If we don't restructure the board then it won't matter who is at the helm of this ship. Like the Titanic, its going down and there ain't near enough lifeboats for all the passengers.

Rick
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In the immortal words of Ron White: "But let me tell you something, folks: You can't fix S-tupid. There's not a pill you can take; there's not a class you can go to. S-tupid is forever."
."


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RE:AFA Exec. Director Resigns 04 Jan 2007 15:13 #64

Gentlefolk,

I have to call it like I see it and let the chips fall were they may fall and this is as good a place as any. Some of you are likely to accuse me of attack politics or negative campaigning or of just being an arse, so be it. But if you read and then think about what I am about to say very bluntly you will see that to accurately address the problems that are plaguing us we have to strip them back to their essential elements and look at them clearly. Sugar coating it just perpetuates the problem for everyone and I think we have had enough to last a lifetime already.

I fully expect that the doofi brigade will come out snapping at my heels after reading this and that is to be expected. They have so little positive energy in their souls that all they know how to do is to attack, attack, attack or to make ******ic comments ad infinitum that any fool can see are ******ic. You folks that doubt my opinion on this just watch and read the commentary carefully, if you haven’t seen what I am describing already, you will it shortly. So lets be about it….

So many people posting here decry what they believe is wrong with the AFA, they bemoan the various weaknesses and failures (human and organizational), they snipe, they complain, they manipulate facts and they refuse in most cases to give the good men and women that have voluntarily chosen to represent us even the slightest benefit of the doubt. They do not even give these volunteers simple civil treatment and respect when they are trying their level best to do their jobs. There are those of you who, because you have your own particular axe to grind, are more than willing to become a salivating attack dog for others that are to cowardly to come up here and fight their own fights and take the consequences of their actions. How is it possible that you are so blind that you can not think about how you are being manipulated and why whatever is being said to you is being said in the first place, or do you even care? And let’s not mention the complete and utter inability to apply some very simple logic to the basic questions that are facing our association or to think through the likely impact on our association before you act upon the information you have been given. Well folks, if you really what to know what is wrong, it is these kinds of behaviors that are exactly what is wrong with the AFA. Instead of engaging in the above I would think that they would be trying to find positive ways to express how things can be improved.

Now to give you a few very pointed examples:

Mr. Terry, I know how you mistakenly received a copy of Mr. Nolan’s letter to the BoD. But that does not justify your posting the full text of a letter written to the BoD about the employment matters of an employee of the AFA regarding his employment. What on earth were you thinking, or should I ask were you even thinking? I do not have a problem with you commenting on Mr. Nolan’s resignation. Christ, I don’t even have a problem with you saying that Mr. Nolan in no uncertain terms laid the blame for his resignation on Mr. Ferguson’s behavior and hostility during the course of his term as ED. But I did not elect you to any position of authority and neither did anyone else. So what gives you the right to expose the AFA to the potential of litigation over the breach of the BoD’s legal obligation to keep personnel matters confidential? Who vested in you the authority to make that kind of legal and financial commitment on behalf of the membership of the AFA? Did you stop to think about the potential legal and financial ramifications? Did it even cross mind that the decision to release the letter might be above your pay grade and outside your authority as a member? Hey here is an important one, did you even bother to call your chapter president and discuss the matter before you appointed yourself the PR Chairman, Personnel Manager and Chief Legal Counsel of the AFA all rolled into one?

The announcement of Mr. Nolan’s resignation should rightly have come from the EC and the BoD once they had the opportunity to discuss the matter and to decide, because it is their responsibility to do so, exactly how to make this announcement in a prudent and legal way. Goodness they might even have wanted have a talk with Mr. Nolan once he came into the office on Tuesday morning, given that I know from experience that contacting Mr. Nolan on the weekend is nearly impossible because he turns off his frigging cell phone. But we will never know what these well intentioned volunteers would have done because first some doofus leaked it to Mr. Gillis and then Mr. Murphy took over and sent it to you. What you sir should do is follow the example of the person that mistakenly sent that letter to you and write a letter to Mr. Nolan and apologize for violating his legal rights and exposing his private business to the public. Don’t worry, I don’t think Mr. Nolan is going to sue you, but it is not that you don’t deserve to be made an object lesson in restraint.

Now before anyone bothers to try to jump me for saying something that is counter transparency I refer you back to my original proposal and tell you to note again that the only exceptions to the requirement of transparency are personnel matters and pending litigation. I believe that this particular item obviously and unarguably falls under the personnel matters clause and the AFA has a legal obligation to treat these matters with complete confidentiality.

Now let us progress to the next example, Mr. Richardson. You have seen fit to come up here and spout your steadfast support for Mr. Fanguy and Mr. Elsbree. You have seen fit to attack my character repeatedly with the same old worn out garbage that the person called Nape trotted out. It would seem to me that you would have been at least smart enough to have checked your facts with credible sources and made sure that you hadn’t been hoodwinked into just repeating the same discredited claims that Nape made. I would have thought also that you would have avoided them even more knowing how completely Nape, the first person to proffer them, had been discredited in the claims about her background and education. I also would have hoped that you had more respect for yourself that to walk on ground that had already been plowed and poisoned by another if only to avoid being associated with them by reference.

Further, in your last post you are laying claim to some fit of superior logic and intelligence in that you did not vote for Mr. Ferguson. You suggest that the members of the AFA do something other than vote for name recognition and actually examine the character of the men running for office. So let us take a look at the record to date for the candidates that you so reverently yet paradoxically support.

Mr. Elsbree in his short posting carrier on horseshoes,com has told everyone that if you’re not a member he sees no need to interact with you and has since ignored questions in the candidates forum. In the last issue of PFM he pledged to work to support and advance the agenda of Mr. Ferguson and he has been a long time friend and associate of Mr. Ferguson and when he was quoted on this pledge in a note to the BoD he demanded that the quote be withdrawn. Would you say that his position on interaction with non-members is consistent with the stance that you expect the future president of the AFA to have? Isn’t a large part of the job to be open, inviting and welcoming to non-members in the hope of convincing them to join our association? Is Mr. Elsbree’s pledge to support Mr. Ferguson, a pledge made after the first dust up, consistent with your position on Mr. Ferguson himself?

Mr. Fanguy has also been a long time friend and associate of Mr. Ferguson. In fact Mr. Fanguy was a key figure in helping Mr. Ferguson get elected, and has also committed to helping Mr. Ferguson move his agenda forward. How do you justify rewarding Mr. Fanguy with your support when the reality is that he is one of the people that made Mr. Ferguson’s rise to power possible? How do you reconcile your support for him with his committed support for Mr. Ferguson’s agenda? Have you really thought through your position and support? Or are you just responding to stimuli?

At this point Mr. Ferguson’s behavior in office is a matter of record and I suspect that Mr. Elsbree and Mr. Fanguy will both, being politicians, back away from Mr. Ferguson as quickly as possible, friend or no friend. Who knows, Mr. Fanguy and Mr. Elsbree may lead the charge and get the BoD to remove him as president or talk him into resigning. But I have to ask you, how does their changing position now after our association has had to suffer through the 9 months of turmoil that has marked Mr. Ferguson’s term in office make up for the fact that they with their long term exposure to Mr. Ferguson and all his faults missed the ones that have been so damaging to the AFA? I have to ask, was their judgment so clouded with vitriol that in their effort to destroy anyone or anything that might believe in farrier licensing that they chose to ignore the serious damage that a Dave Ferguson could have on the AFA and worked to elect him anyway because he was against licensing? Wouldn’t it have been more mature to support a better man and fight the idea of licensing in the board room? Do you think that they ever stopped to consider how much damage was being done, or could be done, to the fabric of the AFA by the very tenor of the campaign that was being run or if a man like Mr. Ferguson was elected?

Continued ....
Ronald E. Kramedjian, RJF

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RE:AFA Exec. Director Resigns 04 Jan 2007 15:14 #65

Continuing ....

Mr. Richardson, from another side it is also interesting to see your endorsements in the light of the fact that neither Rick or I have ever voted for or supported Mr. Ferguson and we have both limited our support for him as president, if we are elected, to those things that are good for the AFA. So I agree with you, everyone should take a good look at the history of the individuals and their character.

When Rick and I discussed our campaign strategy and laid out when we were going to do things, one of the timelines that we considered carefully was the Christmas to New Year window. We felt strongly that during that season we needed to respect the membership’s desire to spend time with their family and so we decided to simply send a happy holiday message before Christmas and then stay basically mute until after New Year. We believed that to invade the season with politics was rude so we made our decision based upon respect and because of our own personal beliefs for the season. And this brings me to my final example, Mr. Gillis. Mr. Gillis’ attack is so transparent as to not even warrant much response. However his choice to launch it on Christmas Eve and even sign it Merry Chrisman deserves to be addressed.

It is my opinion that Mr. Gillis while hypocritically claiming to be a Christian decided to launch his vengeance driven attack on Christmas Eve with the sole purpose of destroying what little peace there may have been to be had. Mr. Gillis by those actions it is also my opinion you have proven yourself to be completely and totally morally bankrupt and that you are so devoid of character and judgment that anyone can manipulate you into doing anything. To violate Our Lord’s celebration by taking a dump on the season’s purpose of reminding us of the good and peace that Jesus wanted us to all have in our hearts just further confirms for me what a shallow, hollow and characterless man you actually are and underlines how good it is that you are no longer the spokesman of the AFA. At least whoever manipulated you into your actions was smart enough to know that they needed to not get their hands dirty, even if they are too cowardly to take their own hits for being chicken ****. What further underscores your hypocrisy is your endorsing a vote for Mr. Elsbree and Mr. Fanguy. I am sure that anyone that knows you can see this endorsement for exactly what it is, given your already proven and rabid hatred of Mr. Ferguson. If I were Mr. Elsbree or Mr. Fangy I would be embarrassed by someone of your ilk endorsing me, especially given the way your endorsement was announced to the world.

Well folks, there you have three shining examples of the kinds of things that are going wrong with the AFA. If we really want the AFA to get better, we had all better go and have a good look in the mirror. Look at these folks and ask yourselves some hard questions about their behaviors and your own. Playtime is over. If we want the AFA to right itself then we the participants need to take responsibility for ourselves and stop tearing it apart from within. It is time for the mature men and women of the AFA to step up and be counted.

On a more positive note there was one very bright and satisfying moment in this holiday’s debacle. About midway through this mess RT Goodrich called me. His first words after I answered the phone were, “Ron, I just wanted to call to tell you how truly sorry I am this is happening and to assure you that I have nothing to do with this.” RT gets it. He and I made an agreement, the same agreement that I offered to Mr. Fanguy and that he has rejected. We agreed to run a forward looking and positive campaign and he has been keeping his word across the board even though he has withdrawn from the race. RT Goodrich is exactly the kind of person I want to see reenergized by this election and reengaged in working to support the AFA. I want to see men and women that are mature enough and wise enough to know that we can fight an idea with other ideas and that we need not try to destroy the person that presented it as a means to defeating the idea.

Outside of a few posts of this forum, Rick and I are telling people our ideas and asking for them to think about them. We are running a forward looking and positive campaign. It saddens me that there are so many negative people here and that instead of just asking honest questions, these people need to bring their negativity to bear in their efforts to damage any good that can be done by an open debate. The AFA is in a crisis, it needs people that will do the hard jobs and will take the hard stands even if they are not the most popular stands.

Like I said at the beginning of this post, the problem is the behavior of a subset of the membership. There is a very small group, mostly behind the scenes, that has been and are stirring the pot. Frankly they need to stop, or they need to be identified and exposed for the damaging individuals that they are. These people and their behaviors are much like roaches, when you flip on the light they scurry into the shadows. It is one thing to speak up for improvement, it is entirely another thing to work so hard to destroy the very thing that you claim to love. Personally I think it is time that we turn on some halogen lamps and make sure that we illuminate every corner of the AFA so the roaches leave and never come back.

Do I think that I can solve the AFA’s problems? No!!! I think and believe that the good men and women of the AFA can solve the AFA’s problems if they have the kind of leadership that will always tell them the truth, even when it hurts. I believe that the good men and women of the AFA can be energized and lead into using their better judgment and character for the good of the association if they fully understand the issues that we are faced with and how damaging to the AFA our baser impulses are. I believe that when the members see someone that can not be bought, manipulated or intimidated into a course of action or a position that could hurt the AFA over the long term they will follow that person and that things will improve. That is why I nominated Rick Burten and why I agreed to run with him.

HONESTY, INTEGRETY AND TRANSPARENCY are more than words, they are guide posts, shining beacons and demanding task masters. They are the only way the AFA will have a chance for survival into the future.
Ronald E. Kramedjian, RJF

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RE:AFA Exec. Director Resigns 04 Jan 2007 16:25 #66

  • Bo Terry
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Ron,

Let me first say, that I too am thankful to those elected who give their time to OUR organization, however, when, in my opinion, some have crossed lines and brought nothing but problems why should they be protected. The U.S. president certainly isn't.

How many times must you be reminded that all your legal mumbo-jumbo from the corporate world doesn't apply here. WE are the AFA. WE employee these people. Not the other way around as you may be so used to in the "corporate world" you speak of. Remember why you started shoeing horses in the first place? It is OUR BOD's job to relay information about what goes on within our organization...not to filter it!

I'm certainly not regretful for posting Mr. Nolan's resignation. The AFA has enough that goes on behind closed doors. Isn't this your whole campaign....Transparency, ahh Ron. Would it be transparent enough for you for me to reveal your exact words about Mike's resignation being shared? I'm sure that would leave a sore spot. The only reason you received the email was because you are a candidate. Otherwise, you Ron, are just part of the general membership like the rest of us. What gives you the right to jump down anyone's throat?

If you haven't noticed, or took the time to read the entire thread, my intention has been to focus on why this came about and what steps should be done to fix it. We have already had enough controversy.

BO :)
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RE:AFA Exec. Director Resigns 04 Jan 2007 16:31 #67

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Ron in blue

I think and believe that the good men and women of the AFA can solve the AFA’s problems if they have the kind of leadership that will always tell them the truth, even when it hurts.

Bingo....the truth, even when it hurts. Not sugar coated, not filtered....the truth.
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RE:AFA Exec. Director Resigns 04 Jan 2007 16:50 #68

  • Bo Terry
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Ron,

Being the professional you claim to be, let me point out a couple of things that seem to speak otherwise.

1. Attempting to discredit those that are running against you.

Ron in blue

Mr. Elsbree in his short posting carrier on horseshoes,com has told everyone that if you’re not a member he sees no need to interact with you and has since ignored questions in the candidates forum. In the last issue of PFM he pledged to work to support and advance the agenda of Mr. Ferguson and he has been a long time friend and associate of Mr. Ferguson and when he was quoted on this pledge in a note to the BoD he demanded that the quote be withdrawn. Would you say that his position on interaction with non-members is consistent with the stance that you expect the future president of the AFA to have? Isn’t a large part of the job to be open, inviting and welcoming to non-members in the hope of convincing them to join our association? Is Mr. Elsbree’s pledge to support Mr. Ferguson, a pledge made after the first dust up, consistent with your position on Mr. Ferguson himself?

Mr. Fanguy has also been a long time friend and associate of Mr. Ferguson. In fact Mr. Fanguy was a key figure in helping Mr. Ferguson get elected, and has also committed to helping Mr. Ferguson move his agenda forward. How do you justify rewarding Mr. Fanguy with your support when the reality is that he is one of the people that made Mr. Ferguson’s rise to power possible? How do you reconcile your support for him with his committed support for Mr. Ferguson’s agenda? Have you really thought through your position and support? Or are you just responding to stimuli?

At this point Mr. Ferguson’s behavior in office is a matter of record and I suspect that Mr. Elsbree and Mr. Fanguy will both, being politicians, back away from Mr. Ferguson as quickly as possible, friend or no friend. Who knows, Mr. Fanguy and Mr. Elsbree may lead the charge and get the BoD to remove him as president or talk him into resigning. But I have to ask you, how does their changing position now after our association has had to suffer through the 9 months of turmoil that has marked Mr. Ferguson’s term in office make up for the fact that they with their long term exposure to Mr. Ferguson and all his faults missed the ones that have been so damaging to the AFA? I have to ask, was their judgment so clouded with vitriol that in their effort to destroy anyone or anything that might believe in farrier licensing that they chose to ignore the serious damage that a Dave Ferguson could have on the AFA and worked to elect him anyway because he was against licensing? Wouldn’t it have been more mature to support a better man and fight the idea of licensing in the board room? Do you think that they ever stopped to consider how much damage was being done, or could be done, to the fabric of the AFA by the very tenor of the campaign that was being run or if a man like Mr. Ferguson was elected?


2. Calling people...dues paying members just like yourself....doofus and f&&&ing idi*ts. (Ring a bell???)

Seems to me like your little ship is sinking and you are just ticked off about it. It's unfortunate for your counterpart.

For what it's worth....I do wish every candidate the very best!

JMO

Bo
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RE:AFA Exec. Director Resigns 04 Jan 2007 16:59 #69

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Rick,

Don't know that I agree with the BOD restructuring. I think that info. needs to be passed to them sooner so that they can make informed decisions. I think this all goes back to one thing....Leadership.

We can pick anything apart, but usually the problem always goes back to Leadership.

It must start at the top.

Semper Fi

Bo
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RE:AFA Exec. Director Resigns 04 Jan 2007 21:14 #70

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Bo Terry wrote:
Ron,

I'm certainly not regretful for posting Mr. Nolan's resignation. BO :)

Bo,

Mr Nolan's resignation to the Board was not addressed to you or this public forum, therefore you had no right nor business posting it.

You may, however air your own dirty laundry at will, but it is disgraceful for you to air Mr. Nolan's laundry. Had he wanted his resignation posted it here it would have been addressed as such.

Mr Nolan posted his intentions on the AFA website as he saw fit with the information he wished. You owe Mike Nolan at least an apology.

Respectfully,

John Blombach
"That it will never come again is what makes life so sweet"
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RE:AFA Exec. Director Resigns 04 Jan 2007 21:26 #71

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John,

I certainly did not intend for this to impact Mr. Nolan. God bless him for enduring as long as he did. I am certainly not above apologizing to Mike if indeed I did harm him in any way.

Bo
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RE:AFA Exec. Director Resigns 04 Jan 2007 23:20 #72

TRIP HAMMER wrote:
Bo,

Mr Nolan's resignation to the Board was not addressed to you or this public forum, therefore you had no right nor business posting it.

You may, however air your own dirty laundry at will, but it is disgraceful for you to air Mr. Nolan's laundry. Had he wanted his resignation posted it here it would have been addressed as such.

Mr Nolan posted his intentions on the AFA website as he saw fit with the information he wished. You owe Mike Nolan at least an apology.

Respectfully,

John Blombach

John excuse me for interjecting here. I understand what you are saying, however Mr. Nolan's resignation and his opinions were released on Fran Jurga's blog. This has been mentioned on this thread a couple of times and seems to have been overlooked. I do not get the impression that Bo did or meant any harm.
Phil Armitage, CF
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RE:AFA Exec. Director Resigns 04 Jan 2007 23:23 #73

  • Rick Burten
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TRIP HAMMER wrote:
Bo,

Mr Nolan's resignation to the Board was not addressed to you or this public forum, therefore you had no right nor business posting it.

You may, however air your own dirty laundry at will, but it is disgraceful for you to air Mr. Nolan's laundry. Had he wanted his resignation posted it here it would have been addressed as such.

Mr Nolan posted his intentions on the AFA website as he saw fit with the information he wished. You owe Mike Nolan at least an apology.

Respectfully,

John Blombach
John,
While you and I have had our civil disagreements, I stand shoulder to shoulder with you in what you have said here.Bo Terry wrote:
Calling people...dues paying members just like yourself....doofus and f&&&ing idi*ts.
When the shoe fits............Bo Terry wrote:
Don't know that I agree with the BOD restructuring. I think that info. needs to be passed to them sooner so that they can make informed decisions.
Given its current structure,I don't care how much information you give the board. It is, has has been, for the most part, inefficient, unwieldy, disfunctional and an impedence to properly managing the affairs of the AFA. And under the current structure, as new chapters are added, it will only get worse. And, since the board only represents the interests of a minority of the membership of the AFA, it is also disenfranchising the majority of the membership. A situation that is unconscionable, unwarranted, and should be rectified immediately.
I think this all goes back to one thing....Leadership.
In its current incarnation, ever were God and his son to be elected to leadership positions, it is MNTBCHO that not even they could effect effective leadership.Bo Terry wrote:
n my opinion, some have crossed lines and brought nothing but problems why should they be protected. The U.S. president certainly isn't.
Apples and oranges. When you posted Mr. Nolan's e-mail you broached the legal requirement for confidentiality in personnel matters. Plain and simple, you screwed the pooch.
How many times must you be reminded that all your legal mumbo-jumbo from the corporate world doesn't apply here.
Sorry Bo, there is no "legal mumbo-jumbo here" and whether you like it or not, or agree with it or not, the law is still the law and you may well have broken it.
It is OUR BOD's job to relay information about what goes on within our organization...not to filter it!
It is their job to filter it when and only when they are required by law to do so. In this instance, law trumps all else.
I'm certainly not regretful for posting Mr. Nolan's resignation.
Given what you did, you should be. Had you not posted the e-mail, rather had you simply made a statement that you had received information that Mr. Nolan had resigned, I would have no quarrel with you. You would have maintained the spirit and the letter of the law and at the same time conveyed accurate information. That, is transparency.
The AFA has enough that goes on behind closed doors. Isn't this your whole campaign....Transparency,
See above.
The only reason you received the email was because you are a candidate. Otherwise, you Ron, are just part of the general membership like the rest of us. What gives you the right to jump down anyone's throat?
The same right as I have. You screwed the pooch and you got called on it.

Best thing now is to learn from this and move on.

Rick
Rick Burten PF

In the immortal words of Ron White: "But let me tell you something, folks: You can't fix S-tupid. There's not a pill you can take; there's not a class you can go to. S-tupid is forever."
."


Je pense donc je suis
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RE:AFA Exec. Director Resigns 04 Jan 2007 23:30 #74

  • Rick Burten
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Phil Armitage wrote:
John excuse me for interjecting here. I understand what you are saying, however Mr. Nolan's resignation and his opinions were released on Fran Jurga's blog. This has been mentioned on this thread a couple of times and seems to have been overlooked. I do not get the impression that Bo did or meant any harm.
Point is, Fran did not post the exact nature of the resignation. Bo did. As I said to Bo, had he not posted the e-mail in its entirety, but instead posted something like Fran posted, I would not have had an issue with it.

As Tom Stovall might opine, the difference is like the difference between lightning and a lightning bug.....
Rick Burten PF

In the immortal words of Ron White: "But let me tell you something, folks: You can't fix S-tupid. There's not a pill you can take; there's not a class you can go to. S-tupid is forever."
."


Je pense donc je suis
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RE:AFA Exec. Director Resigns 04 Jan 2007 23:50 #75

  • Bo Terry
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Rick,

If money details, etc.. were involved, then I must say that I agree and would not have posted the info. However, Mike's resignation said nothing to the effect, nor anything that we should not be privy to. He simply stated that he was leaving and why. Guess we're on two different sides of the fence on this one.

Bo

BTW...Name calling shouldn't happen under any cir***stances. This is absolutely the kind of quality we DON'T need in a leader.
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