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TOPIC: Transparency

RE:Transparency 27 Dec 2006 04:29 #91

  • Rick Burten
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IRNWKR_2 wrote:
I look forward to the day you join the AFA! On that day, I'll know that the AFA has turned its attention to promoting the farrier and not farrier competitions.

Rick

Does this mean that you will do away with the annual competition at the convention, because this is the only D***n contest they put on.

Jaosn G.
No, it means I think the emphasis and importance needs to change.

Truth is Jason, that there is now a proven model that shows a convention can be very, very successful without a forging competition. And, with the advent of WCB, new doors and opportunities are opening that will, I believe, be mutually beneficial. And since the AFA competition tends to be revenue negative, I for one want to take a good hard look at alternatives that will reverse the flow of dollars from out of the AFA's coffers, to into the AFA's coffers.

Rick
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RE:Transparency 27 Dec 2006 12:35 #92

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Posted with permission from the author:
Letter To The Editor


Let me start by clarifying for your readers your statement at the end of Duckett’s letter concerning my response. You are well aware that I requested a copy of the letter as to allow me the consideration to address the issues. This is well do***ented and available for public review here: http://mintvaleforge.com/dear_scott.htm Quote: “As I did not get a response from the phone call(s) I made the other night I am contacting you regarding the issue with the Pa Vet Practice Act, maybe for more information you should contact Dr. ***mings, who I believe was chairman of their committee in Pa, maybe he can enlighten you further regarding my participation on the AFA's behalf. I cannot, and will not respond to unseen statements and/or accusations. It would be remise for me to do so. Until such time that you wish to provide me with the details, I have no reason or interest to respond to derogatory letters”. Furthermore, to ask anyone, albeit a presidential candidate, or otherwise, without detailed information, is ludicrous and unprofessional. If you had been willing to provide me with the do***entation I would have gladly responded. I received a copy of the letter to the editor three days ago, thanks to an AFA member. I have a copy of Mr. Ducketts letter and am prepared to address certain issues.



Before I begin please excuse my ignorance, as I was led to believe that this was a member publication, one that is available to paying members, as a member benefit. Where do you draw the line of acceptable submissions? Is this based on members, farriers, equine welfare groups, government, barefoot trimmers……….? To what extent are you willing to go to publish un-factual and derogatory information? For your information, and the readers, Mr. Duckett is one of the thousands of former AFA members, many of which are equally disgruntled. Mr. Duckett has not been a member of the AFA since April of 1998. As Pennsylvania House Bill 1418 did not go before the House until September of 1999 I had no occasion or responsibility to work with Mr. Duckett, as I was representing the AFA’s members interests, as well as the farriers of the state of Pennsylvania. The purpose: "to allow farriers to continue to practice and provide for their families in the state, without the constraints of veterinary supervision”.



To say that I was not involved is simply false. I have provided you with do***entation from our former leader and President Emil Carre, which if you did your homework Mr. Davidson, editor, former AFA vice president, you would have found that a copy of this letter, from Emil to Duckett, naming me as Chair of that task force was cc to you. A copy of this letter is available to readers here: http://mintvaleforge.com/letter cc to scott davidson.htm

Fact is, Jay Flynn, did the majority of the work, and is to be commended for the results that he and his fellow AFA and PPFA members accomplished, with more difficulty from Mr. Duckett, than help. Although this was not initially to Mr. Ducketts liking was never the mission of the task force, or what I was directed to accomplish by Emil Carre, AFA President.



Finally if you read the letter that is attached and is available to your readers here: http://mintvaleforge.com/PVMA letter.htm. Dr. Hilton states “ The PVMA has established excellent relations with the AFA on this legislative undertaking”. This clearly shows that all AFA representatives, including myself, represented the AFA in a professional manner, working towards our ultimate goal, which was achieved!



As far as Mr. Ducketts question as to where I was during the Florida Veterinary Practice Act, this would be better directed to Mr. Walt Taylor who was contacted by the FSFA. It is my understanding that the AFA did not respond to the farriers in Florida requests.



Finally the fact that your publication printed such flagrant and callous material attacking every member who put forth noble efforts is a disgrace! Not disciplined or considerate enough to have respect for those who have passed on, speaks to the very character of the author and the intent of the publisher. As you were vice president of the AFA during this time demonstrates your poor research, poor memory, poor judgment, and conflict of interest. I highly recommend that you evaluate your polices and curb your flagrant lack of respect for fellow AFA members. This is the type of behavior that has plagued the AFA for decades, and is solely responsible for the thousands of members who have left the AFA hurt, disconnected, and angry with the AFA.



If elected president of the AFA I can assure your readers and the AFA members that this type of conduct will no longer be a part of our association. The members deserve better! If your members care to see the plan that I have for the AFA this can be viewed here: http://mintvaleforge.com/PRESIDENTIAL PLAN.htm This is a draft!





Dave Ferguson, CJF, TE

AFA Presidential Candidate
Tom Bloomer
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Here's the deal. I'm trying to keep it simple.
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RE:Transparency 27 Dec 2006 13:12 #93

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Dear mr. Candidate:

We have a letter that could cause a few problems for your campaign. We can't show you the letter untill after we publish it. Then you can respond to it in the next issue after the members have had two months to think about it.

Have a nice day.
Tom Bloomer
http://blackburnforge.com
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Here's the deal. I'm trying to keep it simple.
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RE:Transparency 27 Dec 2006 13:24 #94

Luke Chapter 14-

13 That same day two of Jesus’ followers were walking to the village of Emmaus, seven miles out of Jerusalem. 14 As they walked along they were talking about everything that had happened. 15 Suddenly, Jesus himself came along and joined them and began walking beside them. 16 But they didn’t know who he was, because God kept them from recognizing him.#

So we have at least one reference where an identity of a completely upright person was purposefully hidden…
I want to start by saying the reason IMHO anonymity is no longer “en vogue” is that the owner of this site has his own non-transparent motives. Since he is in such a close relationship with the not-so-dynamic duo, he hopes horseshoes.com will attain a higher value as a(n) official site for the AFA.
This is a new rule that he has chosen at a most opportune time to fit his own personal agenda…
(nice segue for the topic of Transparency)
We currently have SEVERAL officers of the AFA that have what may be construed as a conflict of interest… talking about neutrality here.
We have the current Pres who holds pre-cert clinics and certifications at his forge.
We have people who started other organizations (WFA)
We have people who publish other publications- cert. guidelines.
We have a guy running for office who is a tester for another farrier organization (GPF) - right Rick?

The FOCUS of this thread was supposed to be on the transparency of the candidates running for office… something Ron and Rick have been loathe to discuss in detail because of their own personal agendas.
The facts are that neither of them are qualified by their character… Mr Karmeeee…whatever… simply has not nearly enough experience in this trade and has in the past sought to bring himself glory during the Katrina disaster… “I’m in charge here”…
And Mr. Burten has a conflict as a tester for the GPF… not to mention his apparent priority to spend so much time on this site.
So we argue about Mr. Childs NEED to remain neutral… Mr. Gillis’ NEED to be more timely in his attempt to allow the Pres to reply… when it’s obvious the Pres just flat dropped the ball (I direct your attention to a recent PF edition where e didn’t even have the time to write a Pres letter because he was too busy fishing)

I kept my identity to myself because in the past, on THIS site, I have read where SEVERAL people have been attacked personally for their candor and accused of illegal activity by some of you jail house lawyers… and quite frankly, I didn’t want to be subjected to that kind of treatment.
The proof of that being this new rule by Baron …where many anonymous posts have been made without consequence before… is now forbidden.
I always thought farriers were supposed to be a pretty thick-skinned lot but from what I’ve sen on here, that particular breed seems to be vanishing like periople on a quarter horse.

Since we don’t get the transparency from the very candidates who started this thread from the get-go, I make a motion to cancel it altogether and move on to finding some people that might give Mr. Elsbree (my apology sir) a run for his money.

Sincerely,
Don Richardson
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RE:Transparency 27 Dec 2006 13:35 #95

Tom B. We need to post Mr. Duckets letter in its entirety. It is not harmfull to Dave's campaigne at all. At no time did Mr. Ducket attack anyone. It is well written with names and dates that anyone can varify.

The only destructive force to Dave is Dave and the funny thing is he still won. I like and respect Dave, however his letter would have done more damage to himself than what Ducket wrote.

I am a big supporter of Dave Ferguson. The reason I like Dave is his level of energy, knowledge and experience. I am also a big fan of Mr. Ducket for the same reasons.

If these two movers and shakers could some how figure out a way to get along and work together the farrier trade and AFA would have powerfull and respected leadership.

The problem I see with Mr. Ducket letter is it appears Mr. Ferguson did not get a chance to read it (for whatever reason), however it appears he was aware of it. I get the impression he expected the worse so he responded as such. I think if he had read Duckets letter prior to his response to I&A his response would have been toned down a bit. I have to be honest if I were the editor of I&A I wouldnt print Daves response either. It is a bit harsh and disrespectfull. I Dave's letter would have done more harm than good to Dave's campaigne. So it might be that Matt Gillis did him a favor by refuseing to print it.

Listen guys what others say about you has little effect. 90% of how others will see you is how you react to things. Attitude. Keep that in mind. I have made the mistake of over reacting to things I read here or to things someone says about me. How I have reacted to a disgruntled customer has made the difference between keeping and looseing buisness.

Lets all try to keep that in mind as we repond. Attitude is 90% of what others see.

Mr. Duckets letter is very well written, respectfull and full of references that anyone can check on the facts if they like.
Phil Armitage, CF
AFA member 7480

"Anyone who proposes to do good must not expect people to roll stones out of his way, but must accept his lot calmly if they even roll a few more upon it." Albert Schweitzer
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RE:Transparency 27 Dec 2006 13:40 #96

sweetbranchforge wrote:
Luke Chapter 14-

13 That same day two of Jesus’ followers were walking to the village of Emmaus, seven miles out of Jerusalem. 14 As they walked along they were talking about everything that had happened. 15 Suddenly, Jesus himself came along and joined them and began walking beside them. 16 But they didn’t know who he was, because God kept them from recognizing him.#

So we have at least one reference where an identity of a completely upright person was purposefully hidden…
I want to start by saying the reason IMHO anonymity is no longer “en vogue” is that the owner of this site has his own non-transparent motives. Since he is in such a close relationship with the not-so-dynamic duo, he hopes horseshoes.com will attain a higher value as a(n) official site for the AFA.
This is a new rule that he has chosen at a most opportune time to fit his own personal agenda…
(nice segue for the topic of Transparency)
We currently have SEVERAL officers of the AFA that have what may be construed as a conflict of interest… talking about neutrality here.
We have the current Pres who holds pre-cert clinics and certifications at his forge.
We have people who started other organizations (WFA)
We have people who publish other publications- cert. guidelines.
We have a guy running for office who is a tester for another farrier organization (GPF) - right Rick?

The FOCUS of this thread was supposed to be on the transparency of the candidates running for office… something Ron and Rick have been loathe to discuss in detail because of their own personal agendas.
The facts are that neither of them are qualified by their character… Mr Karmeeee…whatever… simply has not nearly enough experience in this trade and has in the past sought to bring himself glory during the Katrina disaster… “I’m in charge here”…
And Mr. Burten has a conflict as a tester for the GPF… not to mention his apparent priority to spend so much time on this site.
So we argue about Mr. Childs NEED to remain neutral… Mr. Gillis’ NEED to be more timely in his attempt to allow the Pres to reply… when it’s obvious the Pres just flat dropped the ball (I direct your attention to a recent PF edition where e didn’t even have the time to write a Pres letter because he was too busy fishing)

I kept my identity to myself because in the past, on THIS site, I have read where SEVERAL people have been attacked personally for their candor and accused of illegal activity by some of you jail house lawyers… and quite frankly, I didn’t want to be subjected to that kind of treatment.
The proof of that being this new rule by Baron …where many anonymous posts have been made without consequence before… is now forbidden.
I always thought farriers were supposed to be a pretty thick-skinned lot but from what I’ve sen on here, that particular breed seems to be vanishing like periople on a quarter horse.

Since we don’t get the transparency from the very candidates who started this thread from the get-go, I make a motion to cancel it altogether and move on to finding some people that might give Mr. Elsbree (my apology sir) a run for his money.

Sincerely,

That is very well written.
Phil Armitage, CF
AFA member 7480

"Anyone who proposes to do good must not expect people to roll stones out of his way, but must accept his lot calmly if they even roll a few more upon it." Albert Schweitzer
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RE:Transparency 27 Dec 2006 15:17 #97

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Rick Burten wrote:
No, it means I think the emphasis and importance needs to change. O.K. so you feel that the competition gets more emphasis than the Other venues at the convention, I would have to disagree.
Truth is Jason, that there is now a proven model that shows a convention can be very, very successful without a forging competition. Sounds like you want it to be like the hoofcare summit. And, with the advent of WCB, new doors and opportunities are opening that will, I believe, be mutually beneficial. And since the AFA competition tends to be revenue negative, I for one want to take a good hard look at alternatives that will reverse the flow of dollars from out of the AFA's coffers, to into the AFA's coffers.So is the AD&D policy are you going to take a hard look at that as well.
Rick

Jason Gilliland

I was editing when you posted, man you are fast.
Jason Gilliland
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RE:Transparency 27 Dec 2006 15:19 #98

Hey Ironworker, your pushing it. Baron made it very clear that full names in the political section is required or the post will be removed. I would hate to see that. Your input is valued.
Phil Armitage, CF
AFA member 7480

"Anyone who proposes to do good must not expect people to roll stones out of his way, but must accept his lot calmly if they even roll a few more upon it." Albert Schweitzer
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RE:Transparency 27 Dec 2006 15:21 #99

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sweetbranchforge wrote:
(snip)I kept my identity to myself because in the past, on THIS site, I have read where SEVERAL people have been attacked personally for their candor and accused of illegal activity by some of you jail house lawyers… and quite frankly, I didn’t want to be subjected to that kind of treatment.

The proof of that being this new rule by Baron …where many anonymous posts have been made without consequence before… is now forbidden.
1) Please name the people supposedly attacked personally and accused of illegal activities due to their candor. Cite the attacks, and the attackers. If these "attacks" occurred in the Political Arena Forum, then I, nor will anyone else, consider them attacks, because accusations, claims and counter claims are all part and parcel of playing in the political sandbox. It's dirty, ugly and in many cases disgusting. But when someone throws their hat into the political ring, it's also reality. Back to my first sentence: If you can find any of these attacks or charges of illegal activity in the other Forums on this site, let me know. I'll examine them carefully.

2) Your "proof" is vapor. If you can't comprehend the need for people to stand behind what they say in this particular Forum, then I'm not going to bother to explain it to you. You'll note the the non-anonymity rule only covers the Political Forum, due to the personal nature of the posts. I've received hundreds of e-mails during the past month from people (not one from any of the candidates, though) complaining about anonymous posts in the Political Forum. At first I ignored them, and then came to realize the e-mails made a valid point: If someone is going to make claims or charges against someone else, particularly of a personal nature, they've no right to do it anonymously.

I maintain a strict policy of nuetrality at all times. The candidate with the most views of his thread is Dick Fanguy. Gee, I wonder why I'm allowing Dick to get so much good exposure if I'm supposedly supporting his opponents? Your reasoning doesn't hold water in that regard. I provide a venue for all, and "tilt" towards none.

Now, play by the rules, and have fun.

Baron
“Suppose you were an ******. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself.”
- Mark Twain

“There is no distinctly native American criminal class... save Congress.”
-Mark Twain

“No man's life, liberty, or property is safe...
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RE:Transparency 27 Dec 2006 15:31 #100

  • Tom Stovall CJF
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Don Richardson in gray

Luke Chapter 14

13 That same day two of Jesus’ followers were walking to the village of Emmaus, seven miles out of Jerusalem. 14 As they walked along they were talking about everything that had happened. 15 Suddenly, Jesus himself came along and joined them and began walking beside them. 16 But they didn’t know who he was, because God kept them from recognizing him.#

So we have at least one reference where an identity of a completely upright person was purposefully hidden…


The New Testament of the Christian bible is not an acceptable reference to everyone because it is considered to be apocrypha by non-Christians.

I want to start by saying the reason IMHO anonymity is no longer “en vogue” is that the owner of this site has his own non-transparent motives.
Since he is in such a close relationship with the not-so-dynamic duo, he hopes horseshoes.com will attain a higher value as a(n) official site for the AFA.


Hot damn, I love a conspiracy! Was Baron responsible for Kennedy's assassination too?

This is a new rule that he has chosen at a most opportune time to fit his own personal agenda…

Posts involving the interminable arguments associated with various schools of thought relative to farriery are seldom personal - other than to call the other guy a bonehead for thinking "his" way could possibly be the right way; on the other hand, political stuff is intrinsically personal. Since it's personal, it's only fair that anyone wishing to express an opinion about a candidate should have the testicular fortitude to stand up on his hind legs and be counted instead of hiding bravely under the cloak of anonymity.

(nice segue for the topic of Transparency)
We currently have SEVERAL officers of the AFA that have what may be construed as a conflict of interest… talking about neutrality here.

Nossir, you're talking about construing - which, in this case, appears to be another term for baseless allegations - not a call for neutrality.

We have the current Pres who holds pre-cert clinics and certifications at his forge.

So?

We have people who started other organizations (WFA)

So?

We have people who publish other publications- cert. guidelines.

So?

We have a guy running for office who is a tester for another farrier organization (GPF) - right Rick?

So?

The FOCUS of this thread was supposed to be on the transparency of the candidates running for office… something Ron and Rick have been loathe to discuss in detail because of their own personal agendas.


One hates to labor the obvious, but since all these "construed" conflicts of interest are common knowledge, it appears nobody really gives a rat's patootie - other than somebody intent on making meaningless allegations of impropriety when none are existent.

The facts are that neither of them are qualified by their character… Mr Karmeeee…whatever… simply has not nearly enough experience in this trade and has in the past sought to bring himself glory during the Katrina disaster… “I’m in charge here”…

Do conjecture, innuendo, and uncorroboratred allegations imply reality?

And Mr. Burten has a conflict as a tester for the GPF… not to mention his apparent priority to spend so much time on this site.

What makes you think being a tester for the Guild constitutes a conflict of interest with the AFA? One either knows equid anatomy or one doesn't and their practicals are based on different criteria, with one being subjective, the other objective. Where's the conflict of interest?

So we argue about Mr. Childs NEED to remain neutral…


Not me. Whatever Mr. Childs' official capacity is elsewhere, I think he's just another horseshoer on this forum.

Mr. Gillis’ NEED to be more timely in his attempt to allow the Pres to reply…

When one is acting as the editor of an organization's publication, one does not allow one faction to state its case without the possibility of timely rebuttal because doing so implies the official imprimatur of editorial comment and is, at the very least, patently unfair. In the usual order of business, both sides of a debate are presented as pro/con editorial copy.

when it’s obvious the Pres just flat dropped the ball (I direct your attention to a recent PF edition where e didn’t even have the time to write a Pres letter because he was too busy fishing)

Where is it written that Pres must write a letter for every issue of PF? Maybe he didn't have anything to say. If he went fishing, maybe he figured going fishing was more important than writing the letter. Either way: So what?

I kept my identity to myself because in the past, on THIS site, I have read where SEVERAL people have been attacked personally for their candor and accused of illegal activity by some of you jail house lawyers… and quite frankly, I didn’t want to be subjected to that kind of treatment.

The usual excuse for anonymity is to avoid stalkers, but any excuse will do.

The proof of that being this new rule by Baron …where many anonymous posts have been made without consequence before… is now forbidden.

Perhaps Baron tired of cowardly and scurrilous attempted character assassination from folks bravely hiding behind a nom de guerre. Personally, I applaud his move.

I always thought farriers were supposed to be a pretty thick-skinned lot but from what I’ve sen on here, that particular breed seems to be vanishing like periople on a quarter horse.

LMAO! How can anyone talk of "thick-skinned" while complaining about having to take responsibility for their posts by signing their name. See anything incongruent in such a stance?

Since we don’t get the transparency from the very candidates who started this thread from the get-go, I make a motion to cancel it altogether and move on to finding some people that might give Mr. Elsbree (my apology sir) a run for his money.

This forum is not a democracy, it's a benevolent dictatorship - and right now it doesn't appear to be entertaining motions from the floor. :)
Tom Stovall, CJF
"The only foolish question is the one left unasked."
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RE:Transparency 27 Dec 2006 16:29 #101

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I am sure I missed something along the way, but for one who is afraid of personal attacks, Sweet Branch Forge seemed pretty comfortable slinging arrows...just a thought.

I can also say that these types of discussions make the idea of joining the AFA seem rather pointless. If the insults are removed, what issue is being debated here? Danver's ability to speak his mind? Rick's vision of the AFA's conference? Does the president even have a say in that, or is the agenda decided by a committee? Does DF's letter matter anymore?
Is this productive?

Sorry, forgot my name,
Pat Reilly
P
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RE:Transparency 27 Dec 2006 17:53 #102

Tom Stovall, CJF] While I don't agree with the requirement, since the CJF requirement for presidency was in place before he became a candidate, and the vice president is next in line for the presidency, it follows logically that anyone not in possession of the credential would declare his intention to take and pass the necessary tests before assuming any office for which a CJF is a requirement as assuming the office would be contrary to the bylaws. If Ron has declared this intention, I missed it and apologize wrote:
Tom,

I have not declared that I am going to test for the CJF, just that I intend to finish the CF in the spring. I will not declare my intent. I do disagree with your premise however. The new officer structure is VP to President Elect who becomes President after a year. The VP is automatically a candidate for President Elect. But he is not the only candidate for president elect. Anyone that is in the qualified pool can run for president elect. It is not an automatic as the premise has been suggesting. The reason for the qualified pool is to insure that the candidates have some knowledge and experience in the governance process. The President Elect to President step was intended to all for the outgoing President to mentor the incoming President.
Tom Stovall, CJF wrote:
Since an editor serves at the pleasure of an organization's heirachy, when an editor has his editor hat on, his opinions reflect the organization's official position and are found on the editorial page of the official publicaton. Should his editorials fail to reflect the "official" line of the organization, in all probability, he'll be replaced; in most cases, immediately.

Unless restricted by contract or judicial ruling, when an editor's not wearing his editor hat and expresses his personal opinion on a non-official forum, that expression is protected by the First Amendment. Put another way, Danvers ain't an editor on this forum, he's just another horseshoer with an opinion. Just like me.
I have to disagree with you on a couple of points here.

First, it is a common misunderstanding/belief that the First Amendment of the U.S. Constitution protects all speech. It does not. It protect us from the government attempting to restrict speech. See {First Ammendment}. It is well within the bounds for any organization to restrict the speech of their employees.

Second, I disagree that everyone is going to be able to make the separation in their head that you make in yours. The AFA has been dealt a major blow to the credibility, honesty and integrity of its publication by the former publisher and editor of Professional Farrier Magazine. The AFA needs to create a set of cir***stances and conditions that leave absolutely no doubt as to the neutrality and lack of bias in its publication. Because the Managing Editor of PFM speaks with the AFA’s voice anything that he engages in that would give him an appearance that could be used to call into question his neutrality or be construed as being biased, regardless of the source, official or unofficial, is simply in my opinion not good for the credibility of PFM. Is this fair, probably not, but it is the cold hard reality of it. This is the exact point that I made to the EC and that the EC apparently agreed with. It is my hope that Mr. Child will stay on as the Managing Editor because I believe that he, above all of the other possibilities currently available, has the stature, experience and credibility to actually help reestablish the credibility of PFM as a completely neutral and unbiased reporter of fact.
Tom Stovall, CJF wrote:
If elected, what, if anything, do you plan to do in order to further standardize the certification program?
I would support the development of internal performance measurements. These measurements would take into account every aspect of the testing process and normalize the tester pool by eliminating people that were outside the norm. Here is a simplistic example how this would work. Every tester’s scores would be tracked. Lets say that 80% of the testers give 7’s on a test, of the remainder 5% give, 5s, 6s, 8s and 9s respectively. Those that give 5s and 9s would be eliminated from the pool, those giving 6s and 8s would be run through the standardization training again. Over time you develop a pool of people that all have the same eye. Then as you develop a new way to look at the scoring process the testers you are using are significantly more likely to see it the same way and yield a more consistent result. I am currently developing a program to be used to capture and analyze this information for the certifcation committee. Mr. Nolan has seen and test a couple of early versions.

Also by knowing what the majority average is allows you to put in place safety measures at the certification exam. This way when a tester scores someone more than one point off of the norm an automatic review of the scoring can be implemented with another tester or the examiner rescoring the test. This insures that each candidate receives as much consideration and consistency as possible.

I think Rick & Dick spoke to the other issues fairly well. I do however feel that we need to emphasize returning the certification process to its roots and allow anyone that wants to test to test, regardless of their membership and that we need to restrict testers to trained testers. There is no way to insure consistency if that restriction is not in place and everyone deserves a level playing field.
Tom Stovall, CJF wrote:
If elected, what, if anything, do you plan to do in order to make the public aware the AFA's certification program?
I think that there needs to be a comprehensive marketing program that focuses our efforts on both certification and the simple fact that we exist. I think that this is a project that need a lot of thought and that resulting plan needs to be well funded. Beyond this I am going to say that there is not enough know right no to say what that plan needs to have in it. I know it isn’t what you wanted to hear, but that’s were I am at.
Tom Stovall, CJF wrote:
If elected, what, if anything, what do you plan to do in order to offer the rank and file some form of medical/hospitalization insurance?
As you have already so adroitly observed the professional rodeo guys have it. I have suggested that someone in the office call them and ask them who they are using and how that was arranged. No plan that requires the membership to give up their existing coverage for something temporary is going to have a chance to succeed. This is a nut that we have to crack and I believe it is crackable. If I’m elected I intend to make it one of my major priorities.
Tom Stovall, CJF wrote:
If elected, what, if anything, are you going to do in order to avoid being blindsided by the specter of farrier licensing? (Please note: The formulation of a "plug-in" licensing plan does not imply advocation, it implies prophylaxis.)
I talked to Randy Lukiart at AAEP about this issue. He had arranged for the AFA to be in control of the testing and certification component of licensing if the USDA made a move on the issue. He told me that when he presented this solution to the BoD he was roundly pilloried for his efforts. Frankly I think that something like that makes a lot of sense. Beyond that I agree with Rick.
Tom Stovall, CJF wrote:
If elected, what, if anything are you going to do in order to increase membership and retain those already in the fold?
Yes. I’d work to develop better value to membership, better benefit programs, better education, and much better marketing. I’d also like to see the BoD create a member retention program that include multiple rounds of solicitation to renew. Today we only send one notice.
Tom Stovall, CJF wrote:
If elected, will you attempt to reduce membership dues?
No. I will not advocate for this. When I&A left the AFA setting high and dry on the magazine it not only canceled its contract after the copy deadline for the Nov/Dec issue of the magazine and I&A kept all of the advertising that would have been included in the issue.

While I&A likes to shout loud and long that it was a free magazine it was not. Publication of the magazine was paid for by the advertising in the magazine and I&A kept any advertizing revenue in excess of publication costs as its contractual compensation. Because of I&A’s taking those advertisers the AFA is now having to pay for the publishing costs out of its pockets. To make things worse when I&A decided to publish its own version of the magazine it contracted with the advertisers that had been supporting the AFA to advertise in their publication instead of PFM. These advertisers are having to choose between supporting the AFA or turning their backs on the AFA and supporting I&A’s adventure. I&A claims that these advertisers have always been I&A advertisers, I’ll let you be the judge, the contract anticipated that I&A would handle the advertising on behalf of the AFA and keep the excess revenue as their compensation.

Needless to say, this is going to take a bit of time to recover from. But until the AFA is able to rebuild its advertising base it will not be in a position to look at reducing the dues and by the time it does it would likely not be an issue anyway.
Tom Stovall, CJF wrote:
If elected, will you attempt to have the bylaws changed to allow electronic meetings?
Rick has already pointed out that the Bylaws have already anticipated and allowed for this.
Ronald E. Kramedjian, RJF

Visit the Guild of Professional Farriers, Inc. Website

"What is popular is not always right; what is right is not always popular." Unknown

"In matters of style swim with the current; In matters of principle, stand like a...
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RE:Transparency 27 Dec 2006 19:10 #103

  • Tom Stovall CJF
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Mr. Kramedjian,

Thank you for your timely response to my questions. As you've noted, we do not agree on several points, but that's what makes for horse races and elections.

Thanks again,

Tom
Tom Stovall, CJF
"The only foolish question is the one left unasked."
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RE:Transparency 27 Dec 2006 22:25 #104

I couldn't help but notice that Baron doesn't use his last name in all of his posts nor is it listed in his public profile.
Cordell Rogers
CPA, MAcc, not yet CF
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RE:Transparency 27 Dec 2006 22:56 #105

  • Gary Hill
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If you have been on these boards very long you would know it is Taylor. Anyway he is King, He Bull, Owner, he does as he pleases. I am glad he provides this forum for us. Gary Hill
"As I see it, winners get the money - while losers talk of "individual goals" and similar stuff." Tom Stovall
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