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TOPIC: Transparency

RE:Transparency 26 Dec 2006 21:32 #76

  • Dick Fanguy
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Tom,

I can’t answer your questions as to what I will do because, as we’ve
all pointed out, officers don’t have that much power to make policies.
I can answer as to what I will advocate and promote. So, the answers
below reflect my personal stances and positions that I will present as
an officer.

If elected, what, if anything, do you plan to do in order to further
standardize the certification program?


I've been an Approved Tester since ‘94 and have seen a lot of changes.
I believe the Certification Committee has always worked slowly to
institute changes, taking time to think about things carefully rather
than making quick changes. While this doesn’t always make them look
innovative and open to change, it does make them more consistent and
more credible than many of our other committees and efforts.

I believe that the certification committee is working hard to make
gradual changes for the better and we have to give them the time they
need to get the job done. My main input to this program has been and
will be that we need to get experts on standardized testing to look at
what we are doing and advise us on what we need to do in order for the
program to function at their best and to continue improving.

If elected, what, if anything, do you plan to do in order to make the
public aware the AFA's certification program?


The demographics of customers have changed since I started out in
1970. At that time, my average customer was a male with three horses
and working at being a cowboy. Today, my average customer is a female
with one or two horses, kept in a boarding or training stable, taking
lessons from a professional, and reading everything she can in
magazines that deal with her discipline (Dressage, Hunter/Jumper,
Eventing, or Western). She also spends a lot of time on the
internet.

To my way of thinking, we should be advertising and placing articles
about certification in these places—on the internet and in these
magazines. A feature story in The Chronicle of the Horse would get
these people talking and do more good that 10 TV shows. Magazine ads
are expensive and we need to target that market for the best return on
our investment, but features are free, and the internet isn’t cost
prohibitive.


If elected, what, if anything, what do you plan to do in order to offer
the rank and file some form of medical/hospitalization insurance?


This is pandora's box. First of all, we don't have the numbers to
interest many insurance co.'s and secondly each state has different
laws governing what can and cannot be sold in that state. I wish there
were an easy answer to this, but there is not. Jeff Ridley did more
than anyone on this subject, but could not get it off the ground. It
died due to lack of participation. That being said, I plan on
continuing the search.

One of the ways we might be able to accomplish this would be through
bolstering our numbers with a consumer membership. We could establish
this membership and fulfill some of our obligations toward education
and increase our numbers in a manner that would be appealing to the
insurance companies that are working by the numbers.

If elected, what, if anything, are you going to do in order to avoid
being blind sided by the specter of farrier licensing? (Please note:
The formulation of a "plug-in" licensing plan does not imply
advocation, it implies prophylaxis.)


Tom, Randy Luikart had a plug-in plan laid out years ago. At the time,
the BoD did not want to hear about it. I plan on talking to Randy and
asking him to share his notes with us. I believe that he would. I
would like to present them to the BoD and ask that they use them to
develop a plan for if and when push comes to shove. I would also ask
the BoD to re-establish the policy that says we will only deal with
licensing if the threat comes from a governmental body and not from
within the association. We have spent much too much time fighting this
windmill.

If elected, what, if anything are you going to do in order to increase
membership and retain those already in the fold?


If we implement a new elementary level of certification, which is being
discussed by the education and certification committees at this time,
I believe it will bring in a lot of new people as the leave the farrier
schools. It will get them vested in the certification program from the
start. As we both know, once you start the journey up the ranks, it
becomes addictive. This is something that we do for ourselves. I also
think my plan to have the officers of the AFA attend as may local
chapter meeting as the association can afford will stimulate open
dialog and recruit new members. I find answering questions face to
face a lot easier that what I'm doing right now.

If elected, will you attempt to reduce membership dues?

Yes!

If elected, will you attempt to have the bylaws changed to allow
electronic meetings?


Yes!
Dick Fanguy, CJF
225-315-1100
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For every problem there is always a solution that is simple, obvious, and wrong. Mark Twain

No man can cause more grief than that one clinging blindly to the vices of his ancestors. William Faulkner
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RE:Transparency 26 Dec 2006 21:53 #77

  • George Geist
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Phil,
Thats real interesting. Being that I was the one who recommended everybody read the Duckett letter on these forums in the first place. I really didn't expect Mr.Ferguson's hissy fit over it or any of the other resulting flak but so be it. Unintended consequenses again.

The thing that I find most interesting is what you said though. Just what in the world did Duckett, Heymering, or Ferguson, or anybody else you care to name ever do for you personally to help your business? How have these guys positively or adversely affected your life?

I'm all for giving credit where credit is due but as to that I've not seen it. Perhaps I need some enlightening.
George
For another fun place to play........
www.horseshoersforum.invisionzone.com
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RE:Transparency 26 Dec 2006 22:53 #78

  • Gary_Miller
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Phil, Goerge

You guys don't seem to be on the same page as the rest of us. Which really doesn't suprise me. To say the lest.

Here we are talking about how Mr. Gills editor of the PF employe of I&A handled a letter to the editor. Not what the content of the letter was.

Get a clue would you.
Gary Miller, PF

Ride hard, shoot straight, and always speak the truth.
Gunfighter Motto

"Our level of quality is how well our eye can see it." (Eric Russell, Oct 2008, Horseshoes.com)

"Discover what it is that makes you passionate then grab a firm...
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RE:Transparency 26 Dec 2006 22:56 #79

  • Tom Stovall CJF
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Mr. Fanguy,

I started to send this message privately, but since I asked the questions on a public forum, I think it only fair that I respond on the same forum. Thank you for taking the time to answer my questions, I sincerely appreciate your candor.

Respectfully,

Tom
Tom Stovall, CJF
"The only foolish question is the one left unasked."
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RE:Transparency 26 Dec 2006 23:53 #80

  • George Geist
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Gary,
Last I checked they were arguing about Ron's having Danver's Child silenced on these forums. I might add also that it was quite entertaining while it lasted!

My buddy Phil wants to talk about a letter to the editor from over a year ago which talked about an issue from 7 or 8 years ago I'll be happy to follow him there makes no difference to me.

If this topic disturbs you that much perhaps you can think of something better having to do with transparency. In fact if we could all find a common enemy maybe we could all bond.

To say the "lest"
George
For another fun place to play........
www.horseshoersforum.invisionzone.com
Come over and say hello.
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RE:Transparency 27 Dec 2006 01:24 #81

Tom B. Sometimes I think you have a split personality! Your post #70 is so full of spite and ******ity, it’s remarkable you can function without some type of apparatus strapped to your chin to catch the drool. Now post # 72 is at least coherent, and although I do not consider you an expert in, ”real world journalism,” there are points that deserve my answer. I think your cap lock is sticking there bucko, might want to have that checked.
Here is how things work in my real world journalism.
Dave Ducket sends me a letter to the editor on or about the time of our deadline for submissions. Scott Davidson calls me and asks, should we print this? I say yes because David Fergeson will be able to respond before the election and will have the last word. Scott Davidson asks, should we send Fergy a copy? I say no, because private E mails are flying around on the internet like geese in September, and Dave Fergeson will have this twisted and posted on his site before members get the magazine. However, we must contact him and inform him of the content so that he is ready with a reply for the next issue. Despite your tutorial, I am unaware of any steadfast rules in regard to same issue response rules. In hind sight, you know that 20/20 stuff, I would much rather have printed both in Jan Feb, along with Jay Flynn’s very worthy contribution. My bad, and I apologize for my ****** rookie oversight. Jay Flynn, by the way, did manage to respond with a very good letter after receiving his November December issue without any problem. Dave on the other hand just got angry and sat on his hands, a herald to his presidency. Dave squandered a golden opportunity for some positive spin. How hard would something like this be?
{Dear editor. With regard to the letter to the editor from David Ducket. I am remiss, in that I did not give due credit to all of the great Farriers who participated in changing this important legislation. The fact that we were able to change the language of the Pennsylvania veterinary practice act in a way that will protect Farriers and other equine professionals from frivolous litigation is testimony to the great potential of a strong AFA and our dedicated team to make this country a better place to shoe horses. Further it is my sincere hope that Mr. Ducket, would once again, join the ranks of the AFA and help us all move forward toward a better tomorrow.}
How hard is that? I think that took all of 3 minutes. Now most people will read a short, positive letter like that, whereas I think most folks who read our magazine, read it for the articles and tire quickly of two page letters to the editor, and probably flipped right on by; get over it Tom, Move on. Your last three paragraphs are right on, however, I prefer editor over censor and David Ferguson's letter really was profane, and I’m guessing someone would have been sued. Maybe me.
#5. What the H*E*LL are you talking about? And by the way what I mean when I say the “then free AFA rag” is that when Ink and Anvil produced the Professional Farrier there were no dues, none, zero, zip, nada, not one dime, not one penny of an AFA members dues contributed to the production of the magazine. Generous, supportive, advertisers paid the bills. I dare say, we were probably the most inexpensively produced, nationally award winning, magazine the AFA will ever have. I doubt that Sebastion publishing will be able to do that without dipping into the pockets of the AFA membership.
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RE:Transparency 27 Dec 2006 01:30 #82

Ron’s time line as a propaganda tool. Mr. K is printed in orange, I hope.
I know this is a distraction from the issue of Danvers gag order, but I think it demonstrates Ron's low level politics.
Your very first paragraph is a revelation of your intention to use the issue of the Ink and Anvil “controversy” as a political vehicle.
From the timeline. Post #1
I have kept the Chronology as free of opinion as I possibly can. However I do have an opinion of the conduct that it demonstrates and a conclusion in regard the what it is saying about how some people in the AFA have conducted business to date.In order to keep the chronology as free of opinion as possible would mean you keep your mouth shut. You couldn’t even make it through the first page without assigning blame. i.e. Paragraph 2 line 1.
First, this it is my opinion that this is a mess of Mr. Davidson’s choosing.

I think your next line should read,” And Now I Ron K. will convince you that Scott Davidson is the devil and that I love the AFA” but it was not, instead, you jumped to conclusions based on what limited **** you could assemble using public record and some E mails. You state.

Mr. Ferguson has with all his limited skill tried to engage with Mr. Davidson to resolve this matter before it reached the point that it is at. So I have to give him credit for that. Good on Dave.
Ron this is a bold face lie. David tried to get rid of Ink and Anvil from the git go. He never intended to resolve anything, if he had, we would have had president’s letters for our AFA rag, if he had he would not have sent all the magazines at the AFA office to his, retired publisher, dad in West Virginia immediately after being elected, if he had he would have answered any of the many,many many E mails Laura and I sent him asking for input, if he had he would not have seated himself next to me at the mid year and smugly revealed his intentions to appoint the openly hostile Mike Nolan as project manager, rather than spend one once of energy to find a suitable replacement for Mr. Garrison.
Third paragraph
Second, Mr. Davidson has asserted that Rich Garrison was dumped on by the Ferguson/Nolan cabal and fired as the project manager. This is a bald face lie. Mr. Garrison requested that he be relieved of the role in April. I personally confirmed this on the telephone in a conversation with Mr. Garrison. Was he happy with the choice or with the Fact that Mr. Ferguson was the one writing the letter, NO. But he acknowledged that it was done at HIS request and that is very simply all that counts.
Rick Garrison’s request to be relieved of his duties is all that counts if you have a political agenda, and are trying to make a point. If one were seeking the truth in all this they would have included the fact that Rick was dedicated to the success of the Professional Farrier magazine and wished to be a part of the selection process in regard to his replacement, however Dave Fergeson, having discovered a loophole in the contract, in regard to the project manager, DUMPED him in an untimely and unceremonious manner in order to place his “dog” Mike in the position.
One more example, and all from the first page of your protracted, post.

Forth, Mr. Davidson has stated clearly that he intends to breach the contract in re the publication of PF and has repeatedly refused to discuss the matter in a professional and rational basis.
There was never, not ever, not even one word, written or spoken about an intentional breach of the contract, nor has there been a breech of contract!!! Twist and spin all you want Ron.
Maybe I will spend some more time on this later, but I hate to think of myself degenerating into some kind of overweight computer geek tied to my screen sitting un-showered for days ****ing in an empty two litre bottle, asking you how to draw clips rather than drawing them.
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RE:Transparency 27 Dec 2006 02:32 #83

  • Tom Stovall CJF
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Matt Gillis in gray, deletia

Here is how things work in my real world journalism. Dave Ducket sends me a letter to the editor on or about the time of our deadline for submissions. Scott Davidson calls me and asks, should we print this? I say yes because David Fergeson will be able to respond before the election and will have the last word.

Mr. Gillis, your concept of "real world journalism" is unique, to say the least.

Scott Davidson asks, should we send Fergy a copy? I say no, because private E mails are flying around on the internet like geese in September, and Dave Fergeson will have this twisted and posted on his site before members get the magazine. However, we must contact him and inform him of the content so that he is ready with a reply for the next issue.

Using similar logic, one might publicly accuse someone of being a pedophilic, incéstuous, necrophiliac without fear of timely response. By the time the accused has an opportunity to respond, public opinion has him eviscerated, his head hung on a pike, and his hide nailed to the town hall.

Sounds fair to me.

Despite your tutorial, I am unaware of any steadfast rules in regard to same issue response rules.

How'd you do in Journalism 101? When I took the course, one of the steadfast rules, right up there with making damn sure opinion went on the editorial pages, was that one does not publish ad hominem pieces without offering the attackee a chance to defend himself: side-by-side, same issue.

Perhaps you were absent that day.

Bloomer had it right. [By the way, b/f is not the same as a/c.]

In hind sight, you know that 20/20 stuff, I would much rather have
printed both in Jan Feb, along with Jay Flynn’s very worthy
contribution. My bad, and I apologize for my ****** rookie oversight.


Too little, too late. Journalism carries a substantial responsibility in which reputations can be made and lost and ignorance of the power of the written word is no excuse for either prejudice or ineptitude. Take heed:
The Moving Finger writes; and, having writ,
Moves on: nor all your Piety nor Wit
Shall lure it back to cancel half a Line,
Nor all your Tears wash out a Word of it.
-the Rubaiyat of Omar Khayyam
Tom Stovall, CJF
"The only foolish question is the one left unasked."
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RE:Transparency 27 Dec 2006 03:01 #84

Tom S. don't limit responsibility, honesty and integrity to just journalism. We are all held to that standard.
Phil Armitage, CF
AFA member 7480

"Anyone who proposes to do good must not expect people to roll stones out of his way, but must accept his lot calmly if they even roll a few more upon it." Albert Schweitzer
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RE:Transparency 27 Dec 2006 03:03 #85

Gary_Miller wrote:
Phil, Goerge

You guys don't seem to be on the same page as the rest of us. Which really doesn't suprise me. To say the lest.

Here we are talking about how Mr. Gills editor of the PF employe of I&A handled a letter to the editor. Not what the content of the letter was.

Get a clue would you.

Tom B brought up the letter. So now the letter is part of the discussion, I feel the content of the letter is important.

Have you read the letter?
Phil Armitage, CF
AFA member 7480

"Anyone who proposes to do good must not expect people to roll stones out of his way, but must accept his lot calmly if they even roll a few more upon it." Albert Schweitzer
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RE:Transparency 27 Dec 2006 03:23 #86

  • Rick Burten
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Tom Stovall, CJF wrote:
Put another way, Danvers ain't an editor on this forum, he's just another horseshoer with an opinion. Just like me.
And here, I have to respectfully disagree. When Davners threw his saddle on this particular horse, he started riding for the brand. Whether rounding up cows or sitting on a bar stool at the Silver Dollar saloon, he is going to be associated with the brand he rides for. So , regardless of the time or place, once he is perceived as "riding for the AFA" as managing editor of the PFM, his words, his actions, especially on subjects/issues directly pertaining to the AFA, will be perceived as having the 'official weight/position' of the AFA behind them. He doesn't get to pick and choose when he rides for the brand, he always rides for the brand so long as he is in the position he is in.
No different for any of those who hold office in the AFA, nor will it be different for any of us who get elected to office.
, I'd like to see your opinion - not vacillation, equivocation, obfuscation, or any of the usual political ploys. There's no penalty in not answering, although some folks might take that failure as a tacit admission of something or other.

If elected, what, if anything, do you plan to do in order to further standardize the certification program?
As long as there is a human component to the evaluation process, there will never be complete accord. My seven might be your six or someone else's eight. That's why we have the ongoing examiner/tester upgrades. One thing I would propose is to reduce the pool of testers and require that every tester work a minimum of two certifications per year. Further , I would propose that the hosting chapter/organization not be allowed to use a non-testerCJF. This totally undermines the entire approved tester concept. Next I would propose that the Area supervisor be responsible for assigning testers from his/her area to work at the certifications occuring in his/her area. In any given calender year, any tester would be able to 'beg off' working one certification, but if he/she refuses a second time, his/her name comes off the Approved Tester List. I would also propose that examiners and testers be limited to one eight year term, but that Area supervisors could serve in that capacity alone for as long as they are willing.

Futher, I would propose that the certification program once again be opened up to member and non-member alike. And, that the CF credential be given an position of prominence in our marketing to the public.
If elected, what, if anything, do you plan to do in order to make the public aware the AFA's certification program?
We have to have an even more visible presence at events such as Equine Affair, and other State Horse Fairs. We have that capability right now because we have the Chapters that can, with support and guidance from the office, fulfill that mission.

And, we have all seen the "power of the internet" We need to make use of it. We can do this by first re-constituting our IT committee and staffing it with people who are experienced in the field. And we have those people within our ranks right now.

And finally, I still think we should add a Barefoot Endorsement to our program. And that endorsement should be available starting with the CF credential.
If elected, what, if anything, what do you plan to do in order to offer the rank and file some form of medical/hospitalization insurance?
Though a pilot program was tried without success, from what I have read, it was almost assuredly doomed to failure because of the conditions of the contract. Medical insurance is a difficult beast to tame. There are so many variables that for it to be successful will Ithink, take a larger organization that we currently are. That said, I would like to see the concept re-visited. since we now have an idea of what won't work, we should be in a better position to find something that will.
If elected, what, if anthing, are you going to do in order to avoid being blindsided by the specter of farrier licensing? (Please note: The formulation of a "plug-in" licensing plan does not imply advocation, it implies prophylaxis.)
As I have stated several times before, I agree with you that there should be a 'plug-in' plan available for implementation. I prefer to be proactive on this subject, rather than reactive. Further, I would propose that the AFA, rather than just having a 'gag order' in place for the officers, staff and BoD representatives, make a policy statement that directly addresses the issue. That policy statement should , IMNTBCHO, state "The AFA is is not in favor of (or substitute "against' for 'not in favor of') any legislation at any level of government that requires the licensing and/or registration of farriers."
If elected, what, if anything are you going to do in order to increase membership and retain those already in the fold?
We need to reach potential members at the school level and at the field level. At the field level, the Chapters again can play a very important role. We need to develop a comprehensive plan for the Chapters to use and then support the Chapters any way we can. At the school level, there are some initiatives in the works, but I feel we still have a lot of bridge re-building to do. The distance learning program that has been initiated this year is a good one and we need to make it available to non-AFA members too. We should offer it to them on a subscription basis, or , for free(as we now do for AFA members) when/if they join the AFA. We need to better reach out to our membership and identify the strengths of individuals and then do everything in our power to get those individuals involved. Again, I see a role for the Chapters in this too.

Beyond that, we have to restore the faith, confidence and trust of the membership in the leadership of the AFA. Right now, that is lacking/missing and the members are saying so both by e-mail and with their feet/checkbook. If more of the 'same ole' stuff' as perceived by the membership keeps happening, then we have the Titanic on our hands. If we fail to re-structure the board, then nothing that any candidate pledges, promised or tries is going to have much impact. We need to get to a workable size so that progress can be made, issues dealt with on a timely basis, and the membership kept well informed. T
If elected, will you attempt to reduce membership dues?
I have thought about this question for a long time. My gut reaction is to say 'Yes". My head tells me that it would be a fruitless battle. With that said, I think I would still make the proposal to reduce the dues, and at the same time, require a policy be developed that dealt with the issue. This policy would clearly state how dues increases would occur and that they would occur on a regular basis. Whether the increases are tied to inflation, COLA, or something else, they would be defined and clearly stated.
If elected, will you attempt to have the bylaws changed to allow electronic meetings?
Tom,

The Bylaws already provide for this. ARTICLE VI. BOARD OF DIRECTORS

Section 10. "any action which may be considered at a meeting of the Board of Directors may be considered without a meeting by mail ballot or voting by other electronic communication"

Also, the EC already is meeting electronically.

Additionally, when the board is restructured, it is the intent of the AFA to hold regular and (as needed) special board meetings electronically.

Further, I have proposed a policy addendum to the Board Re-structuring proposal that would require any officer or board representative to have a computer and have full time access to the internet and an e-mail account.
As a prospective member, the answers to these questions are important to me and I'd appreciate your response. Thanks.
I look forward to the day you join the AFA! On that day, I'll know that the AFA has turned its attention to promoting the farrier and not farrier competitions.

Rick
Rick Burten PF

In the immortal words of Ron White: "But let me tell you something, folks: You can't fix S-tupid. There's not a pill you can take; there's not a class you can go to. S-tupid is forever."
."


Je pense donc je suis
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RE:Transparency 27 Dec 2006 03:24 #87

Thank you for the lesson Mr. Stovall
You seem uniquely qualified to do so. I do not mind having a unique perspective. I received an A. No one was accused of being anything in Mr. Ducett's letter other than insincere, I do not think ignorance of the power of the written word is my problem, and I still accept as true, that side by side responses are a courtesy and not a necessity. I guess Ron's alleged request for a gag order would not only prevent Danvers from side by side response but would eliminate the posibility of response all together. That is, after all the issue here.
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RE:Transparency 27 Dec 2006 03:53 #88

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I look forward to the day you join the AFA! On that day, I'll know that the AFA has turned its attention to promoting the farrier and not farrier competitions.

Rick

Does this mean that you will do away with the annual competition at the convention, because this is the only D***n contest they put on.

Jaosn Gilliland.
Jason Gilliland
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RE:Transparency 27 Dec 2006 03:59 #89

  • Tom Stovall CJF
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Mr. Burten,

The world would be a boring place if eveybody agreed on everything. Unlike some denizens of this deep, I think folks can disagree with civility and respect instead of loading up on testosterone and implying one's antecedents' had an unnatural affair with rutebegas.

I appreciate your answering my questions.

Thanks again,

Tom
Tom Stovall, CJF
"The only foolish question is the one left unasked."
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RE:Transparency 27 Dec 2006 04:22 #90

  • Cyber Farrier
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IRNWKR_2 wrote:
I look forward to the day you join the AFA! On that day, I'll know that the AFA has turned its attention to promoting the farrier and not farrier competitions.

Rick

Does this mean that you will do away with the annual competition at the convention, because this is the only D***n contest they put on.

Jaosn G.
What part of ending all posts with your full name wasn't understood? Please adhere to the rules.

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