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TOPIC: MCHA & the AFA

RE:MCHA & the AFA 11 Nov 2006 19:30 #16

Phil,

It's hard to soar with eagles when you fly with turkeys.

Phantom
"The work will teach you how to do it"
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RE:MCHA & the AFA 11 Nov 2006 21:27 #17

Phantom Farrier wrote:
Phil,

It's hard to soar with eagles when you fly with turkeys.

Phantom

So who do you consider the eagles and the turkeys. Besides didnt you know eagles are also scavangers. Beautifull bird on the outside but not much on the inside. The bird I admire the most is the hawk. Intellingent, aware of there surrounding, talented hunter and can see all. At least a turkey taste good.
Phil Armitage, CF
AFA member 7480

"Anyone who proposes to do good must not expect people to roll stones out of his way, but must accept his lot calmly if they even roll a few more upon it." Albert Schweitzer
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RE:MCHA & the AFA 11 Nov 2006 21:37 #18

John you know as well as I do makeing a successfull buisness is not all about your work speaking for itself. It also requires convinceing your customer that your the one to use. It is a combination of bragging and doing good work. A farrier does not need the AFA and/or certification to build a successfull buisness. So when you say soreing with eagles, how does that apply. Are you saying a farrier needs the AFA to succeed? Tell that to 97% of farriers that are not certified or AFA members. Ask yourself why is the attendance for the International Hoofcare summit so successfull? I hear more about the summit as a great source of continueing education than I do about the AFA. I would love to see the AFA figure out how to become the leader of this trade. I believe in credentials, but a lot needs to ironed out first before the AFA can truelly call itself the role model and leader of the trade. Hair dressers have to be certified why shouldnt this trade be certified? After all hoof care is much more important than cutting hair.
Phil Armitage, CF
AFA member 7480

"Anyone who proposes to do good must not expect people to roll stones out of his way, but must accept his lot calmly if they even roll a few more upon it." Albert Schweitzer
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RE:MCHA & the AFA 11 Nov 2006 23:16 #19

  • ray steele
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Phantom Farrier wrote:
Phil,

It's hard to soar with eagles when you fly with turkeys.

Phantom


Phantom /aka John Blombach,Treasurer of the AFA,

Since I presume that you are using metaphors, could you provide a syllabus, translation, clarification, what/who are turkeys/eagles, in your opinion or translation.

I was not at equine affaire, you listed some AFA members who were there, were they the turkeys or eagles, what does that make those who were not there?

How does one become a turkey or eagle if one wished to. I'll bet that those representing the AFA were farriers , and never once mentioned either bird . And i'll bet that there were many other farriers in attendence also!

I'm having difficulty understanding your post and I ask for a clear ,concise interpretation.

Regards

Ray Steele
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RE:MCHA & the AFA 12 Nov 2006 02:58 #20

  • Gary Hill
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If ya hunt ya know real quick how smart turkeys really are! I think Ben Franklin was the one that wanted the National Bird to be a turkey instead of the eagle? Happy Veterans Day to you Veterans! Best, Gary
"As I see it, winners get the money - while losers talk of "individual goals" and similar stuff." Tom Stovall
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RE:MCHA & the AFA 12 Nov 2006 16:32 #21

  • brian robertson
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Harvesting turkey in Michigan isn't all that tough. Take a stroll after sunset and locate their "roosting" tree. Return before dawn, down wind, sit very still with your back against a large rock or tree and wait till first light. Our coyotes taught me that. No camo or calls needed.

12 gauge with a full choke, rarely a shot over 20 yards is necessary.

If you don't see any Toms you like in the tree you've found; keep looking.

Turkeys are not that smart but they are great "motion detectors" and they have reasonable sense of smell. They taste a whole lot better than store bought especially if the harvested bird hasn't been frozen.

I'd rather be an eagle; nobody is blowing their heads off twice a year.
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RE:MCHA & the AFA 12 Nov 2006 18:16 #22

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Brian that kinda takes alittle of the hunt out of it. Here in Texas our leases are quite vast and just finding the roost isn't considered sporting here. Good eating tho! Best, Gary
"As I see it, winners get the money - while losers talk of "individual goals" and similar stuff." Tom Stovall
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RE:MCHA & the AFA 13 Nov 2006 20:51 #23

Phil Armitage wrote:
How are these guys representing me on my behalf? Why should I thank them?

We should thank everyone who is willing to give up their time and volunteer to forward our profession... whether they're doing it under the banner of the AFA, BWFA, GPF, NB, WCF, or whatever. As long as they're promoting professional farriery and not slamming someone else in the process, good on 'em.
The BS I am talking about is the politics. How leadership in the AFA continue to fight internaly and then put on a smile while in public.

I'm with you that we spend way too much time with infighting, but I've said it before and I'll say it again.... If a couple has an argument, I appreciate it if they keep it at home and don't share it with me in the aisle at WalMart. Likewise, I don't think it would have done anyone much good for you and John to conduct a debate on the merits and demerits of the AFA in the aisles at Equine Affaire.
Does the AFA need to thank me for representing this trade on a daily basis with an open mind, professionalism and the respect I show horse owners and there horses.

yes.
As far as continueing education, in my opinion the AFA has really dropped the ball on that and it is puzzleing that this is still a part of there mission statement. The strength of the AFA is certification and that is also lacking.

That's what the AFA was doing at Equine Affaire--continuing education. Is there room for improvement? H*ell Yes! And I would suggest that we improve things by reinforcing and rewarding positives rather than doting on negatives. Bruce, would you step in and tell us that the glass is half full?!!
It is becomeing obvious to me the real authority in the AFA has no desire to change or learn more.

As ~1/3700 of the real authority of the AFA, I resent that remark.

I think a good role model for the AFA is the International Hoof care summit.

I think a good role model for the AFA would be my mother. A long time ago, she made me read Dale Carnegie's book, How to Win Friends and Influence People. And Mom has pretty much role-modeled it for me ever since. Somewhere I've still got a copy. Carnegie says some neat things like:

Don't criticize, condemn or complain.
Give honest and sincere appreciation.
Be a good listener. Encourage others to talk about themselves.
Make the other person feel important - and do it sincerely.
The only way to get the best of an argument is to avoid it.
Show respect for the other person's opinions.
Try honestly to see things from the other person's point of view.
Be sympathetic with the other person's ideas and desires.
Let the other person save face.
Praise the slightest improvement and praise every improvement.

I'm gonna see what I can about getting Mom on the speaker's list for next year's AFA Convention :) . She could really straighten a lot of this stuff out and make a lot of people hang their heads and scuff their toes. Then she'd get 'em to raise their heads up collectively and go to work--together.
~~Danvers

Danvers Child, CJF

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"Human beings are perhaps never more frightening than...
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RE:MCHA & the AFA 14 Nov 2006 00:28 #24

Danvers, my ole boss heard Dale Carnegie getting pretty angry with someone on a phone call over car rental issue once. Kind of like I saw John Lyons telling everyone to be patient with horses while training them and never strike them in the head, then struck one on the nose. Difficult to practice what you preach. Nobody is perfect.

Where did you get the idea that John and I were argueing in the ilse way of Equine Affair. I didnt go remember. Is this a rumor.

Sorry for insulting your authority in the AFA.
Phil Armitage, CF
AFA member 7480

"Anyone who proposes to do good must not expect people to roll stones out of his way, but must accept his lot calmly if they even roll a few more upon it." Albert Schweitzer
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RE:MCHA & the AFA 14 Nov 2006 01:10 #25

Phil Armitage]Danvers, my ole boss heard Dale Carnegie getting pretty angry with someone on a phone call over car rental issue once. Kind of like I saw John Lyons telling everyone to be patient with horses while training them and never strike them in the head, then struck one on the nose. Difficult to practice what you preach. Nobody is perfect.[/quote]

Amen to that.

Where did you get the idea that John and I were argueing in the ilse way of Equine Affair. I didnt go remember. Is this a rumor.

Sorry, that was me trying to make a point wrote:
Sorry for insulting your authority in the AFA.

We're cool. It was only a fractional insult anyway.
~~Danvers

Danvers Child, CJF

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RE:MCHA & the AFA 27 Nov 2011 00:19 #26

  • Travis Reed
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Phil Armitage wrote:
Hi Billy quiting is always an option. This is buisness and time is very valuable. If an association starts to become a waste of time and money I have to consider that as a buisness person and also have family to think about. If an orginization or associations have problems gaining new members and retention then they need to figure out what is wrong. The other thing that could happen is new orginizations and associations can start up any time. In addition to our work related associations there are also hobby type associations that take up time and cost. Many of us have other hobbys and belong to other types of associations. Fishing, hunting, shooting, bowling, archery, family. Both my kids had more activities than a person should be allowed and I spend every spare second getting them there and back, helping out and many other time consumeing tasks. So I am going to be pretty picky about my time and what association I will be a member of. If it I think it is a waste of time and money, I will quit. I will not beat myself up trying to be firm about change and beat a dead horse or suffer fooleshness.

Developeing our shoe makeing, shapeing, forgeing and welding skills really need to be done at home as much as possible. Practice, practice, practice. Just finding the time to do this is difficult. I found setting up an area where you can get to work with little set up time is the best way to do it. My point is inorder to get as good as others in the trade we need to spend the time practiceing. I like to practice alone now and then, take the time to figure out how to do things by doing. Technique, skills and speed come with practice. Then we can go out and show our stuff at a hammer in or competition, we pick up pointers and practice some more.

Is the AFA currently haveing retention and membership problems? If they are does the leadership know why? Do some think there is a problem and others think everything is fine?

Identifying problems and solutions is not easy. First you need to identify the problem and if it really is a problem or not. I have no problem with the AFA stateing this is who we are and we only want members who believe in our core values. However I do have a problem with the AFA makeing the claim they represent US farriers and take a leadership role in the farrier trade. This comes across as forceing your religion on me.

Phil from ur post the other day in 2011 and this in 2006 what changed ur mind on things
Travis Reed.....


www.sporthorsefarrier.com to direct link..
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RE:MCHA & the AFA 27 Nov 2011 12:45 #27

  • vthorseshoe
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Danvers, The glass is half full !~ :eek:

my 2 cents worth ;)
"you may not like what I say" !
-but-
"you'll never have any doubts where I stand
quote Cindy Matthews 1948-2006


I thought my life had come to a close with Cindy's passing, but there is life after death Thankyou Sharon !

Bruce Matthews
Southeast...
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RE:MCHA & the AFA 28 Nov 2011 21:45 #28

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I left my shop at noon today because I was not feeling well. After a rest I logged on and had to answer this post.

Here we go again, about the AFA: I realize that joining any national organization is not for everyone and there is always internal politics within any group of more then 2. We have heard those complaints plenty of times. The more important items of education and horseowner awareness are being addressed pretty well, the problem there is the horse owning public is quite vast and dynamic and we are a small group in comparison. One way to do better here is for there to be more members which equals more income and volunteers. That being said I will add 2 things to this discussion:
1. Specifically, what would you want the AFA to do, to improve and entice any you or other farriers to become members.
2. Personally, I think I have had a successful career, way beyond my original expectations. There are many reasons for that and I would list my participation in the AFA on the top part of that list. It worked for me.

Steve Kraus, CJF
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RE:MCHA & the AFA 28 Nov 2011 23:06 #29

  • Steve Swain
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Old Thread from 06
I stink, therefore I am.............a farrier.
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RE:MCHA & the AFA 29 Nov 2011 00:58 #30

  • vthorseshoe
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I only posted for laughs and giggles with Danvers remark to me.

I was a long time member #1300 AFA and only reason i let it go was the increase in the membership due's.

I fought hard to get the Vermont Farriers Association accepted as a chapter and have pushed with all my ability to encourage certification and clinics and education of the public.

I was a represenative of the AFA along with my compadre, Mark Schneider where we set up the booth that was newly made for the AFA and answered questions and passed out literature etc. in Cincinattii.

I was, for a short time, heading up a committee along with Mark Gough.

All I can say is if it is for you and your enthusiastic about the AFA then join and volunteer to work for and with the association. An association's only as good as it members...
If your not happy about something then work to change it. P-issing and moaning doesn't do any good. If you want change join a committee and work to change the direction and thoughts in the right manner.

I highly recommend the AFA to anyone but like everything in life, it is for some and not for others. Only you can decide that.

my 2 cents worth ;)
"you may not like what I say" !
-but-
"you'll never have any doubts where I stand
quote Cindy Matthews 1948-2006


I thought my life had come to a close with Cindy's passing, but there is life after death Thankyou Sharon !

Bruce Matthews
Southeast...
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