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TOPIC: T.N vs. Ron

T.N vs. Ron 30 Oct 2006 18:04 #1

  • T.N. Trosin
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Again, I'm going to try and make this clear. This isn't a compitition. I view this as a healthy debate that I might have with someone in the bar, hall, whereever at convention with people standing around observing. If I refer to someone, it is someone that is in the immediate vacinity (i.e. you folks here on the board).
As I have stated, come with a response. Don't cut and paste me to death. With all that said and the shear risk of hyprocracy this came from the T.N. V Gary Board and I feel that I had to cut and paste to make it germain to a conversation that I might have with Ron face to face.
Last preface, I am off to Oregon for the week and I will respond as best I can, but I might have to continue this conversation when I get back. We'll see how the internet is working up there.
Ronald E. Kramedjian wrote:
What you do not want to hear is that I believe strongly in working to make the BoD stand up and take charge of our association, to establish the policies of our association and to behave like they are actually responsible for the way our association is running. There is no room for excuses in my mind.
If I don't want to hear that then why do you think I was on the committee to change the way the asociation sits the board? If I don't want to hear that then why did I accept that committees chair when it was vacated? As vice president what makes you think your going to be able to hold these guys feet to the fire better than anbody else? It's not an excuse it's the way it is. Does it make it right? No, but part of leadership is paticence and exceptance and to this point I haven't seen a whole lot of either from you.Ronald E. Kramedjian wrote:
Now if that kind of accountability doesn't work for you why are you on the BoD?
That statement shows you don't know a whole lot about the people in the WSFA. First of all at what point have I not been accountable?
Second at the moment the WSFA By-Laws that are on file with the AFA give me the job.Ronald E. Kramedjian wrote:
I integrate that which makes sense and I store that which I do not understand until it becomes understandable. When someone like you just stops talking you hurt those of us that are trying to learn.

Then you need to listen. I'm not Dr. Doug, but I know what I know. If a guy wants to ask me questions thats fine, but when they pick apart what I tell them, then I have to figure I haven't got anything they don't. I'll tell anybody anything they want to pick my brain about, but they have to be willing to listen for awhile.
Ronald E. Kramedjian wrote:
Tom I have never said this. I am going to work to get the BoD to do its job and do the house cleaning that is necessary.

If you didn't before you did there.
Ronald E. Kramedjian wrote:
I know it must come as a novel concept, but it is the BoD's job to manage the affairs of the association and to set the policies of the association, it is the duty of the officers and executive director to administrate those policies. So how are you as a BoD rep doing your job and why is it that there are few if any policies governing the activities of the association?

No kidding Dick Tracy, at this point I have to wonder if you realize that you are talking down to me, treating me as though I am a child who doesn't understand why his toy is broken.
"I know it must come as a novel concept", how magnanimus. I like how you have been to one board meeting that I know of and your going to tell me how the cow eats the cabbage. If you knew anything about me maybe it wouldn't tick me off so bad. But you don't, you look and talk to me as though I am some knuckle head keg shoer, who doesn't take his positions serriously. When I was Vice-President of the WSFA, I made sure that I attended the AFA BoD meetings I could, and if I couldn't I made sure I talked to our president as soon as he got home so I could be up to speed if it was required of me to go in his steed.
As to how I'm doing my job. I am doing my job, but the thing you fail to remember is that I am 1 in a field of 55. I have one vote, and I use it in a manner in which I think it will bennifit not only the AFA But the WSFA weather I am amoung the majority or the sole vote against something.
You think we need more policies, I think we need more honor. The AFA policy manual rivals a small citys phone dirctory. As a board member I follow the policy enclosed therein not only by letter but in the spirit of the policy. It's not to say that the policy doesn't need cleaning up, but I can't do it all. This is a volunteer deal and I am volenteering more than my fair share at the moment. Perhaps you should jump off my back and get on a few of these other people, oh thats right they don't post here. Maybe there is a good reason for that.
Ronald E. Kramedjian wrote:
I’m sorry, the BoD has failed to exercise its proper role in governing the activities of the EC and the association since the EC’s inception. Why are you trying to blame the EC for the BoD’s failure to act in the very manner that the Bylaws of the association require?

I blame the EC for a lack of your favorite word "transparecy". I don't blame the people on the EC I blame the concept and the boundries. AS I HAVE SAID,T.N. Trosin wrote:
However, unfortunatly, in the intrest of day to day business it must exist as long as the AFA sits such a large board. .
it is where the line is drawn. Granted what the EC has done has been what they thought was in the best intrest of the association, but the maner in which leadership has done these causes me to question it.
Soliceter General Warning: This message may not have been spell checked for your protection
Just a piece of advice, think to yourself is this something I would say in front of a client, before your click the submit button.
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RE:T.N vs. Ron 03 Nov 2006 02:42 #2

T.N. Trosin wrote:
If I don't want to hear that then why do you think I was on the committee to change the way the asociation sits the board? If I don't want to hear that then why did I accept that committees chair when it was vacated? As vice president what makes you think your going to be able to hold these guys feet to the fire better than anbody else? It's not an excuse it's the way it is. Does it make it right? No, but part of leadership is paticence and exceptance and to this point I haven't seen a whole lot of either from you.
Tom,

There is a very large difference between working to change an organization’s structure and working to change an organization’s culture. You are talking about working to change the structure. I am talking about working to change the culture. Even if you manage to change the structure the culture will not have been changed and things will not improve. A major part of leadership found in knowing when to work on the symptom and when to work on the real problem. As Vice President I believe I can work on changing the culture by actively interacting with the members of the BoD, by actively insuring that Committee activities are well do***ented and transmitted to the BoD in as clear and rapid fashion as possible and by actively encouraging each BoD representative to read and question what is happening in their name within the association by asking them for input in as many ways as possible and perhaps they will be energized to step up and exercise their rights and responsibilities.
T.N. Trosin wrote:
You think we need more policies, I think we need more honor. The AFA policy manual rivals a small citys phone dirctory. As a board member I follow the policy enclosed therein not only by letter but in the spirit of the policy. It's not to say that the policy doesn't need cleaning up, but I can't do it all. This is a volunteer deal and I am volenteering more than my fair share at the moment. Perhaps you should jump off my back and get on a few of these other people, oh thats right they don't post here. Maybe there is a good reason for that.
I am surprised at your description of the BoD policy manual. The one that I received from Bryan a while back was about 15 pages of mostly fluff that could have been reduced to two pages.
T.N. Trosin wrote:
I blame the EC for a lack of your favorite word "transparecy". I don't blame the people on the EC I blame the concept and the boundries. AS I HAVE SAID, it is where the line is drawn. Granted what the EC has done has been what they thought was in the best intrest of the association, but the maner in which leadership has done these causes me to question it.
I would have to agree with you in part. However I believe that the people are responsible for their choices and their behavior. The concept is intended to allow for things that “must” be decided quickly to be decided quickly and then referred to the BoD for ratification. The EC and its members should rightly and regularly refer everything else to the BoD for its consideration and work to empower the BoD, not to castrate it as seems to be the case these days. For me the line is pretty clear and it includes a very healthy and necessary dose of cover the AFA as a whole and the BoD in particulars collective rear ends when making a decision. This is not an option in my opinion, it is an obligation.

BTW, congratulations on your election as BoD Representative on the EC. Perhaps now you will be able to help the EC draw the line a little more clearly.
Ronald E. Kramedjian, RJF

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