make up natural cara make up make up tutorial make up korea make up minimalis make up artis make up mata belajar make up make up wardah alat make up makeup forever indonesia makeup artist jakarta tips make up barbie make up natural make up make up wajah make up pesta make up syahrini makeup mata makeup minimalis peralatan make up make up cantik make up mac make up kit jual make up make up sederhana perlengkapan make up gambar make up vidio make up cara makeup minimalis wardah make up make up pac make up glamour cara memakai makeup make up panggung harga make up make up modern make up alami make up dasar pixy make up make up muslimah make up oriflame make up jepang makeover cosmetic make up ultima make up sariayu grosir make up makeup fantasi makeup pesta tas makeup langkah make up make up pria make up malam alat makeup tahapan make up produk make up shading make up mak up make up kebaya make up jilbab make up inez make up simpel contoh make up cara ber makeup makeup wajah tanpa make up make up terbaru toko make up mac makeup indonesia make up soft urutan make up trik make up makeover makeup brand gusnaldi make up paket make up panduan make up jual makeup brush make up bagus alat2 make up make up gusnaldi aplikasi make up alat alat makeup dasar make up inez make up peralatan makeup make up wanita make up berjilbab make up tebal sejarah make up make up maybeline make up branded make up siang tata cara makeup reseller make up make up muslim make up maybelin warna make up tips make up artist rias make up make up mata make up artis belajar make up make up artist kursus make up kuas make up make up forever indonesia jual make up mac indonesia make up make up artist indonesia harga make up forever jual make up online make up pac make up forever jakarta make up oriflame jual make up forever make up online shop indonesia harga make up sekolah make up grosir make up harga make up maybelline jual make up murah make up terbaru mak up mac make up indonesia sofia make up make up kit murah mac makeup indonesia produk make up jual make up kit make up store indonesia make up forever academy jakarta toko make up online jual make up set jual make up mac make up beauty jual make up branded produk make up mac make up forever harga make up mac indonesia produk make up artis jual make up palette produk make up forever make up palette murah before after make up pengantin before after make up sendiri before n after hasil makeup contoh make up karakter contoh riasan pengantin before n after harga make up wisuda harga make up artist harga make up forever make up wisuda rias wisuda di jogja Daftar harga make up forever daftar harga make up mac daftar harga kosmetik make up forever makeup wisuda harga makeup wisuda kursus make up di yogyakarta kursus make up di jogja kursus make up jogja kursus make up yogyakarta kursus kecantikan di yogyakarta kursus kecantikan di jogja kursus make up artist di jogja kursus rias pengantin di jogja kursus rias di yogyakarta kursus tata rias di yogyakarta rias pengantin muslim jogja jasa kreasi jilbab wisuda yogyakarta jasa rias make up wisuda murah bagus bisa dpanggil tempat make uf di jigja yang bagus rias wisuda murah dan berkualitas yogyakarta pakar kreasi jilbab di jogja make uper natural yogya make up wisuda hijab area jogja make up dan kreasi jilbab yang bagus di jogja jasa make up natural untuk wisuda jogja makeup jogja make up jogja makeup yogyakarta make up yogyakarta makeup wisuda jogja make up wisuda jogja make up wisuda yogyakarta makeup wisuda yogyakarta
Tuesday June 28, 2022
Welcome, Guest
Username: Password: Remember me

TOPIC: Does it help?

RE:Does it help? 11 Oct 2006 01:06 #61

  • Tom Stovall CJF
  • Tom Stovall CJF's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Master
  • Posts: 3882
  • Thank you received: 1
  • Karma: 0
ray steele in gray, deletia

One can shoe jumpers and not know about "The Puissance" because he or she does not shoe in those circles. ie has no need to know! at the moment

Hereabouts, most grooms in jumper barns can tell you what a puissance is. In Spanish.

One can shoe flat track runners and not understand graded stakes!

You're kidding, right? I've been to some mighty sorry tracks, but never met anyone on the backside who didn't understand that graded stakes are the epitome of flat racing.

It might be compared to a teacher at elementary school compared to a teacher at high school,compared to a college teacher PHD. Have you noticed they are all teachers? I believe it the same with farriers, but have you noticed the apparent need to seemingly put others opinions down? Seems to me to run rampart in our profession!

I see your point, but I'm thinking more along the lines of folks who claim to've taught at the college level, but aren't qualified to teach in kindergarten. Such stuff runs rampant in our profession. :)
Tom Stovall, CJF
"The only foolish question is the one left unasked."
The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:Does it help? 11 Oct 2006 01:09 #62

  • ray steele
  • ray steele's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Master
  • Posts: 1042
  • Thank you received: 4
  • Karma: 1
Phil,

Sorry, i don't find it funny if Tom or if any one tries to be condescending,and Tom,I'm not saying you were, but I just didn't get your point, if you were trying or felt you were being such (condescending)then please say so, to me such acts(being condescending to another ) lowers our profession and our supposed goal of improving ourselves on these boards or any other venue. Disagreement for what one believes is to me ,good and valued.

Regards

Ray Steele
The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:Does it help? 11 Oct 2006 01:29 #63

  • ray steele
  • ray steele's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Master
  • Posts: 1042
  • Thank you received: 4
  • Karma: 1
Tom Stovall, CJF wrote:
ray steele in gray, deletia

One can shoe jumpers and not know about "The Puissance" because he or she does not shoe in those circles. ie has no need to know! at the moment

Hereabouts, most grooms in jumper barns can tell you what a puissance is. In Spanish.

One can shoe flat track runners and not understand graded stakes!

You're kidding, right? I've been to some mighty sorry tracks, but never met anyone on the backside who didn't understand that graded stakes are the epitome of flat racing.

It might be compared to a teacher at elementary school compared to a teacher at high school,compared to a college teacher PHD. Have you noticed they are all teachers? I believe it the same with farriers, but have you noticed the apparent need to seemingly put others opinions down? Seems to me to run rampart in our profession!

I see your point, but I'm thinking more along the lines of folks who claim to've taught at the college level, but aren't qualified to teach in kindergarten. Such stuff runs rampant in our profession. :)

Tom,

Please translate the Spanish or thr grooms translation, then we will all know which dictionary we are using. I'm asking for your translation of puissance.


Maybe I,ve been to sorrier tracks than yourself, but my job has been to get the horse back into the fray, I never cared about the line,the odds, or the cap, usually I allowed $2.00 to the trainer for a bet but I put $4.00 on the bill,
cost of doing business. i didn't work the backside often, just did my job , shoeing horses.

Alot runs rampart in our profession,bull and all,still a person who can shoe a horse,for its needs at the time, certified or "ignorant" is a farrier in my eyes,formal educated or not, in my eyes ,who can teach is a teacher ,

Regards

Ray Steele
The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:Does it help? 11 Oct 2006 02:00 #64

  • Tom Stovall CJF
  • Tom Stovall CJF's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Master
  • Posts: 3882
  • Thank you received: 1
  • Karma: 0
ray steele in gray

Please translate the Spanish or thr grooms translation, then we will all know which dictionary we are using. I'm asking for your translation of puissance.

Most of 'em describe a puissance as "La clase con la pared." [The class with the wall.] It's a fairly apt description. Four or fewer jumps, nothing smaller than 4'6", and a helluva big vertical..

Maybe I,ve been to sorrier tracks than yourself, but my job has been to get the horse back into the fray, I never cared about the line,the odds, or the cap, usually I allowed $2.00 to the trainer for a bet but I put $4.00 on the bill, cost of doing business. i didn't work the backside often, just did my job , shoeing horses.

It's not about the track, it's about the industry and everyone in the racing industry knows what a graded stakes is. (I never was bad to put much through the windows, I worked too damn hard for my money.)

Alot runs rampart in our profession,bull and all,still a person who can shoe a horse,for its needs at the time, certified or "ignorant" is a farrier in my eyes,formal educated or not, in my eyes ,who can teach is a teacher ,

On the latter we can agree. Good farriery is always about giving the horse what it needs.
Tom Stovall, CJF
"The only foolish question is the one left unasked."
The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:Does it help? 11 Oct 2006 02:59 #65

  • ray steele
  • ray steele's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Master
  • Posts: 1042
  • Thank you received: 4
  • Karma: 1
Tom Stoval,

I'm answering by paragraph,

Thanks for the translation from "most of em" but that makes it difficult to put an accurate description on the term, course we could go to the written word ie Websters, point is if we all use our own dictionary, we can always come up with our own definition, kinda like shoein horses eh?

Again, depends on what kind of track atmosphere you were in. You feel that "everyone in the track industry" knows what graded stakes is, sorry I worked on a # of thorobreds, just to get them back into the running and never gave a damn about their place or it's stature, just can they run,safely, much less where they ran. The same for Standardbreds.

Just practicing farriery as I see it.

Regards

Ray Steele
The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:Does it help? 11 Oct 2006 03:42 #66

good god.... what is this? Horseshoeing or philosophical deconstructionism? Maybe someone from the Union Française des Maréchaux-ferrant can get on here and tell us if puissance is "la quantité de travail par unité de temps." Or maybe you could ask an old cajun like Dudley Gaudin and find out that puissance was just another name for a chimpanzee he called Ronny. But methinks that's kinda/sorta irrelevant. Jargon and terminology serve a two-fold purpose: they allow communities to communicate in a fairly precise "shorthand," and they allow communities to be exclusionary. If you wanna play in a community, you learn the jargon.
~~Danvers

Danvers Child, CJF

This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
http://www.foxtailforge.com


“Watch what people are cynical about, and you will often discover what they lack." General George S. Patton Jr.

"Human beings are perhaps never more frightening than...
The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:Does it help? 11 Oct 2006 04:02 #67

Not only learn the jargin Danvers but learn the meaning. Glad to see you know it is a french word and if you look it up it means power, might and force not wall or fences. If you research the use of the word as a jumper class you will soon find out it means the highest level the highest jumps. The reason for this is because horses at this level are more powerfull, more training and conditioning than the lower level of jumping. It is the highest level of jumpers. In french it can be used as a noun or adjective.

The correct spanish translation would be "dominio".

Regards
Phil Armitage, CF
AFA member 7480

"Anyone who proposes to do good must not expect people to roll stones out of his way, but must accept his lot calmly if they even roll a few more upon it." Albert Schweitzer
The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:Does it help? 11 Oct 2006 04:05 #68

  • Gary Hill
  • Gary Hill's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Guru
  • Posts: 5298
  • Thank you received: 6
  • Karma: 4
The hardest thing I ran into when I first started in this business was understanding that the "OLD" guys didn't really like shareing "tips" to a young guy cutting his teeth in the business? Even when, one month after I finished school and moved to Fla (still chasing a lady) I went to my first Farriers Clinic. I found the majority of Farriers didn't want to show or explain anything? Of course , Dr. Butler was there doing the clinic and maybe they didn't want to shoot off their mouths in front of him? Needless to say as I was eager to get my feet wet, I signed up to be tested. There was about 15 people testing and the rigs were impressive to a guy with a camper top on a Toyota . Anyway, I pull my coal forge out on my tailgate and stick a tube through a sliding window on the camper and I have a chimmey. Well I tested to get out of school shoeing hot and expected everyone to be shoeing hot? I was the only one with a lit forge and I worked on unfinished AP shoes. Everyone else was using Diamond saddle lites or something like them? Two hour time limit and I still need 15 minutes to finish, so I fail. Passed the oral, OK so all I needed to do was learn to cold shoe, as I was told? The thing that shocked me was even tho there was a crowd watching me, which then made me quite nervous, NOT one guy offered a tip or help on anything I did? It left a bad taste in my mouth for a group that tout's forge work and contests? Show up at a barn with other farriers there and if they didn't know ya -silence? Thank God I went to watch Lee Liles at the State Fair of Texas a few years later and found a Man that liked to help young guys and he offered and answered any question I asked . When the AFA and State groups start offering help to young farriers then I believe that the numbers will grow by leaps and bounds. Issues that pertain to the actual things we run into everyday, and we all do run into the same things and same problems, when we come together as we do MOST of the time on these boards, I might send them my dues? Tom, I did want to make the last TPFA clinic in Aug but I was scheduled for a show and now the next one on another show weekend so I will stay and ride my horse and hope to win as the finals are close and hope to make the next one? Best to all, Gary
"As I see it, winners get the money - while losers talk of "individual goals" and similar stuff." Tom Stovall
The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:Does it help? 11 Oct 2006 05:07 #69

Phil Armitage wrote:
Not only learn the jargin Danvers but learn the meaning. Glad to see you know it is a french word and if you look it up it means power, might and force not wall or fences. If you research the use of the word as a jumper class you will soon find out it means the highest level the highest jumps. The reason for this is because horses at this level are more powerfull, more training and conditioning than the lower level of jumping. It is the highest level of jumpers. In french it can be used as a noun or adjective.

The correct spanish translation would be "dominio".

Regards

well.... if you look up the word "molest," you might find that it means "to bother," but I don't think you want to go tell some parent you're sorry for having molested their kid and expect them to work from that definition.

You (and likely half of the folk reading this) probably have a better grasp of the French language than I, but I was under the impression that the general French equivalent of "power" would be "pouvoir," while the usage of "puissance" would be more specifically akin to our usage of the word "energy," and even more closely akin to such usages as "electrical power" or "kinetic energy."

I know even less Spanish than French, so I'll be interested to see what Mr. Tom has to say about "dominio." I can tell you, though, that the man who raised me could play dominos (Moon & 42) as long as the liquor held out. He also told me when I started wearing make-up that if you **ck with the bull, you get the horn. :)
~~Danvers

Danvers Child, CJF

This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
http://www.foxtailforge.com


“Watch what people are cynical about, and you will often discover what they lack." General George S. Patton Jr.

"Human beings are perhaps never more frightening than...
The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:Does it help? 11 Oct 2006 05:31 #70

Gary Hill wrote:
The hardest thing I ran into when I first started in this business was understanding that the "OLD" guys didn't really like shareing "tips" to a young guy cutting his teeth in the business? Even when, one month after I finished school and moved to Fla (still chasing a lady) I went to my first Farriers Clinic. I found the majority of Farriers didn't want to show or explain anything? Of course , Dr. Butler was there doing the clinic and maybe they didn't want to shoot off their mouths in front of him? Needless to say as I was eager to get my feet wet, I signed up to be tested. There was about 15 people testing and the rigs were impressive to a guy with a camper top on a Toyota . Anyway, I pull my coal forge out on my tailgate and stick a tube through a sliding window on the camper and I have a chimmey. Well I tested to get out of school shoeing hot and expected everyone to be shoeing hot? I was the only one with a lit forge and I worked on unfinished AP shoes. Everyone else was using Diamond saddle lites or something like them? Two hour time limit and I still need 15 minutes to finish, so I fail. Passed the oral, OK so all I needed to do was learn to cold shoe, as I was told? The thing that shocked me was even tho there was a crowd watching me, which then made me quite nervous, NOT one guy offered a tip or help on anything I did? It left a bad taste in my mouth for a group that tout's forge work and contests? Show up at a barn with other farriers there and if they didn't know ya -silence? Thank God I went to watch Lee Liles at the State Fair of Texas a few years later and found a Man that liked to help young guys and he offered and answered any question I asked . When the AFA and State groups start offering help to young farriers then I believe that the numbers will grow by leaps and bounds. Issues that pertain to the actual things we run into everyday, and we all do run into the same things and same problems, when we come together as we do MOST of the time on these boards, I might send them my dues? Tom, I did want to make the last TPFA clinic in Aug but I was scheduled for a show and now the next one on another show weekend so I will stay and ride my horse and hope to win as the finals are close and hope to make the next one? Best to all, Gary

not a whole lot of folk around who remember--much less, took--the oral test... good lord gary... you're old! you probably had an 8-track and switched back and forth between listening to ernest tubb and jimi hendrix... and the guys probably wouldn't talk to you because you were driving a japanese truck... twas a sin in those days!

seriously, though, i remember what you're talking about, and i think those days are behind us. i go to a lot of AFA and AFA chapter events, and i see people encouraging the young guys and newbies most everywhere I go. in fact, i did a clinic for the Music City Farriers Association last spring, and prior to the clinic, Steve Davis (the MCFA prez) spent a lot of time talking to me about how they had been setting their clinics up to help out the young farriers in their association. i guess it's far from perfect, but most things are. in any case, it seems to me to be a helluva lot better now than then!
~~Danvers

Danvers Child, CJF

This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
http://www.foxtailforge.com


“Watch what people are cynical about, and you will often discover what they lack." General George S. Patton Jr.

"Human beings are perhaps never more frightening than...
The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:Does it help? 11 Oct 2006 05:41 #71

  • Tom Stovall CJF
  • Tom Stovall CJF's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Master
  • Posts: 3882
  • Thank you received: 1
  • Karma: 0
Phil Armitage in gray

Re: Puissance classes


Not only learn the jargin Danvers but learn the meaning.


As applied to jumpers, the word "puissance" is defined in the FEI and USEF rulebooks - and that's the only meaning that counts.

Glad to see you know it is a french word and if you look it up it means power, might and force not wall or fences.

You digress. At issue is the term's application to jumpers.

If you research the use of the word as a jumper class you will soon find out it means the highest level the highest jumps. The reason for this is because horses at this level are more powerfull, more training and conditioning than the lower level of jumping. It is the highest level of jumpers.

You're getting in deeper and deeper. The highest level of jumpers do it for the most money and are called "Grand Prix" horses. Puissance horses jump the highest fences, but not many of 'em and they don't go fast; Grand Prix horses go plenty high, lots wider, jump more fences and go a helluva lot faster in a jump off. e.g., Last year's D.C. International had a $25,000 puissance and a $100,000 Grand Prix. Other major shows have a similar disparity in prize money.

In french it can be used as a noun or adjective.

In jumpers, it can be also used as both a noun and an adjective. e.g., A puissance; a puissance horse.

The correct spanish translation would be "dominio".

"Dominio" translates from Spanish to English as "dominion" or "control".
Tom Stovall, CJF
"The only foolish question is the one left unasked."
The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:Does it help? 11 Oct 2006 09:55 #72

  • tbloomer
  • tbloomer's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Master
  • Posts: 4622
  • Thank you received: 20
  • Karma: 1
ray steele wrote:
. . .and strongly disagree with Tom Bloomer on the entire marketing of certifications as a means to the end of promoting an organizatios arbitrary credentials.
The arbitrary credentials provide a means of evaluating the MINIMUM basic knowledge and motor skills that a farrier should have in order to shoe horses.

How does the new horse owner know that their "farrier" knows which way to turn a nail? How does a rookie farrier know their own level of skill?

Consider the number of farriers who fail the AFA certification tests on the first attempt. Among those who fail are beginners fresh out of farrier school and "established professionals" who have been in business for several decades.

When you fail a BASIC test of knowledge and motor skills, MAYBE there is something missing in your BASIC skills and education. MAYBE the test helps you see that you need to pursue more of the BASICs.

So I ask you, Mr. Steel, what is wrong with promoting more education and skill development? What is wrong with providing the ever growing number of new inexperienced horse owners some evidence that besides SHOWING UP, the rookie they hired has demonstrated before his or her peers a MINIMUM level of basic education and skill?
Tom Bloomer
http://blackburnforge.com
302-222-6404


Here's the deal. I'm trying to keep it simple.
The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:Does it help? 11 Oct 2006 10:10 #73

  • tbloomer
  • tbloomer's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Master
  • Posts: 4622
  • Thank you received: 20
  • Karma: 1
ray steele wrote:
. . . still a person who can shoe a horse,for its needs at the time, certified or "ignorant" is a farrier in my eyes . . .
Thus in your eyes anyone who can demonstrate the ability to shoe a horse according to it's needs is a farrier. Where does that leave those who cannot demonstrate this ability, in your eyes? Is it safe to assume that they are not farriers, certified or "ignorant?"
Tom Bloomer
http://blackburnforge.com
302-222-6404


Here's the deal. I'm trying to keep it simple.
The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:Does it help? 11 Oct 2006 10:28 #74

tbloomer wrote:
The arbitrary credentials provide a means of evaluating the MINIMUM basic knowledge and motor skills that a farrier should have in order to shoe horses.

How does the new horse owner know that their "farrier" knows which way to turn a nail? How does a rookie farrier know their own level of skill?

Consider the number of farriers who fail the AFA certification tests on the first attempt. Among those who fail are beginners fresh out of farrier school and "established professionals" who have been in business for several decades.

When you fail a BASIC test of knowledge and motor skills, MAYBE there is something missing in your BASIC skills and education. MAYBE the test helps you see that you need to pursue more of the BASICs.

So I ask you, Mr. Steel, what is wrong with promoting more education and skill development? What is wrong with providing the ever growing number of new inexperienced horse owners some evidence that besides SHOWING UP, the rookie they hired has demonstrated before his or her peers a MINIMUM level of basic education and skill?

Tom, in most cases the basics are taught before one joins the AFA. There is nothing wrong with promoteing education. I would like to see the trade promote experience. The best teacher in this trade is experience.
Phil Armitage, CF
AFA member 7480

"Anyone who proposes to do good must not expect people to roll stones out of his way, but must accept his lot calmly if they even roll a few more upon it." Albert Schweitzer
The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:Does it help? 11 Oct 2006 10:40 #75

  • vthorseshoe
  • vthorseshoe's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Master
  • Posts: 2841
  • Thank you received: 55
  • Karma: 11
Thankyou Ray....
Your story says exactly what I have tried to get across many times.
I have a hard time with many of the technical words Vet/Farrier terminology.

True story, a certian young man called a multibanked shot into the corner pocket, and his friendly engineering student opponent asked ,Julius, is that shot feaseable? Julius answered "don't know feasable, but I know it'll work." And proceeded to drained it. Julius was (Dr.)Julius Erving(NY Nets,Philly 76ers), Anna cannot remember the engineering students name. Point is the engineering student probably understood the science, the young man from the ghetto understood the angles.I believe there are many farriers who do not know the words of the science, but their quest is how the client leaves the mats, and they produce more often than not.

ology.


Sometimes I think I am too old to start over with the wording that is used today.
"you may not like what I say" !
-but-
"you'll never have any doubts where I stand
quote Cindy Matthews 1948-2006


I thought my life had come to a close with Cindy's passing, but there is life after death Thankyou Sharon !

Bruce Matthews
Southeast...
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Kunena Birthday Module

  • Mike Chaffin birthday is today
  • shelby820 birthday is today
  • hatcher barry birthday is in 1 day
  • cowgirlup birthday is in 363 days
  • gabear67E2 birthday is in 363 days
  • AClement birthday is in 364 days
  • andreanelson birthday is in 364 days
  • dani_shoes78 birthday is in 364 days
  • Docbarhorse birthday is in 364 days
  • SherryinPA birthday is in 364 days
  • WeercerigD10C birthday is in 364 days
Time to create page: 0.240 seconds

S5 Box

Register

*
*
*
*
*
*

Fields marked with an asterisk (*) are required.