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TOPIC: Other AFA issues

RE:Other AFA issues 13 Apr 2006 04:51 #181

  • Gary_Miller
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Phantom Farrier wrote:
Ron, Gary, Phil, and others interested

It’s been just a little more than a month since you elected me Treasurer of the AFA. I’m glad to inform you that the American Farrier’s Association is in excellent financial health – I’ve finally found and accounted for every penny that has been brought in or expensed out on your behalf. From my vantage point everything looks like it is in order but an audit will confirm.

It looks like the administration change is smooth and without major problems and for maybe the first time in AFA history no one has had to be fired, the AFA office remains open and fully operational. All trusted servants willing to stay on were graciously encouraged to do so and those whose choice it was to quit were quickly replaced pending BOD approval.

Continuing education is on track – all one has to do is check your calendar of events. The need for a Strategic Plan has evaded the Association for years and Bryan has done a great job with that. Bryan is a great guy and has done much to further our cause and I for one will miss him.

I know you were all looking for dirty laundry but there isn’t any and there will not be any. No secret agendas – no forced licensing schemes – everything on the up and up.

As things develop I will keep you posted, but if you have specific questions please feel free to ask any one on the EC or BOD or call my AFA hotline at 978-430-1757 or post your specific on this forum.

Respectfully.

John Blombach CJF :)
So John you completly side steped the whole issue of what is the truth behind the issue that was being discused. You know the one where you stated that we did not want to know the truth.

I'm not sure why you would do that. Maybe you could explane your rational behind trying to side step the issue, by trying to change the subject with your state of the association address.

Come on John "Lets get to the rat killing." and stop messing around.

Gary
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RE:Other AFA issues 13 Apr 2006 05:04 #182

  • Bill Adams
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Rick,
Thanks for the imput. I think this tangent must be put to rest as there are weighter matters than fighting Franky's mouldy oldies.
It brings to mind a line from a song a friend wrote after breaking up with a girl friend that may be applied to the writings of some who partisipate here: "I thought you were better than nuthin', but nuthin' don't take up space".
Bill

A rightous man regardeth the life of his beast. Proverbs 12:10
I don't give a damn for a man who can only spell a word one way. Mark Twain
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RE:Other AFA issues 13 Apr 2006 11:27 #183

Ron,

I see in my recent AFA update that you have put your name in the hat for Secretary - Walt Taylor will be a tough act to follow. I like a man who puts his money where his mouth is. If you can win the election we'll welcome you aboard. We don't know very much about you - maybe you could shed some light on a few things concerning your candidacy.

It appears that you, Ron, were VERY eager to support the previous Executive Committee in their efforts to pursue licensing and regulation of the farrier industry. You may have been part of the Farrier Education Task Force and because of this outspoken support you were suddenly awarded the chairmanship of the Louisiana Rescue - a great cause for sure.

How do you plan to shed the perception of being in the pockets of the prior administration? Some members may have difficulty supporting you in any potential role of influence or power within the AFA.

I apologize in advance for what will undoubtedly be judged by you as a smear campain - it is better to get this behind you now.

Phantom :)
"The work will teach you how to do it"
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RE:Other AFA issues 13 Apr 2006 12:07 #184

  • Rick Burten
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John,

While it is always good to ask hard questions, it is also necessary to be able to answer them.

You have asked some hard questions of Ron, yet you have not been forthright and transparent when, of late, the hard questions have been directed at you or hard answers demanded of you. And, here, I am not referring to your update regarding the financial health of the AFA.

And here are a few more questions for you. Knowing my position during the entire Licensing and Registration debacle, including the fact that I was on the School Survey task force, do you feel that I also was in the pocket of the previous administration? If so, why so? If not, why not? And, now knowing that I am on the BOD, why do you think the members of my association supported me by electing me to a position of "potential influence or power within the AFA"?
Rick Burten PF

In the immortal words of Ron White: "But let me tell you something, folks: You can't fix S-tupid. There's not a pill you can take; there's not a class you can go to. S-tupid is forever."
."


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RE:Other AFA issues 13 Apr 2006 12:26 #185

  • Rick Burten
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Franky Lundist wrote:
rick thank you for jumping to the defense of bill I am sure he can use all the help he can get it proves you have been indoctrinated properly into the fold of the AFA.
Silly you, Bill doesn't need my help, nor was I trying to defend him. An astute reader would have divined that. I just enjoy exposing you for the pseudo-everything that you are. And, you make it way too easy. Your ineptitude has a certain 'je ne sais quoi' quality to it, but I do enjoy the challange.
I also wanted to thank you for correcting my use of the english language, a person could learn alot from you
It has been, and will I suppose, continue to be my distinct pleasure to expose you, to correct you, and to further your (obviously until now) dismal education . And, because of my magnanamous nature, you are enjoying these benefits for free.
so why dont you become an english teacher I am sure a man of your skill and knowledge would better serve society by educating the masses.
I consider you to be a mass(just don't ask me what kind of mass), so in furthering your education, I am accomplishing that which you suggest.

So Franky, perhaps in the future you will avail yourself of a Webster's before you attempt to use words and phraseology that is beyond your linguistic and intellectual skill and capacity. Should you not be the proud possessor of a Webster's, and should you lack the financial wherewithall to purchase a copy, I would gladly make a gift of one to you. You have merely to send me your address so I can expeditiously FedEx one to you.

Oh, one more thing. Your use of punctuation sucks. If you'd like, I would be more than happy to instruct you on how, when and where the use of such common punctuation marks as 'the period', the comma, the semi-colon, the colon, quotation marks, and the apostrophe is proper and appropriate. Once you have begun to master that, we'll move on to the correct usage of the capitalzed letter.
Rick Burten PF

In the immortal words of Ron White: "But let me tell you something, folks: You can't fix S-tupid. There's not a pill you can take; there's not a class you can go to. S-tupid is forever."
."


Je pense donc je suis
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RE:Other AFA issues 13 Apr 2006 14:15 #186

  • T.N. Trosin
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Gary_Miller wrote:

It looks as if the BOD has once again let the ball drop.

If the AFA is going to go anywhere in the horse industry they need a plan on what they want and how they are going to get there.

As stated before it time for the BOD to get off thier butts and get doing their job.

Remember and organization without a plan is an organization distian for failure.

Gary

Hear fn hear. Who thought I would ever agree with Gary about anything.

But in turn in order for the board to do it's job a couple of things are going to have to change.
1. We have to get rid of the 2 minute, talk twice rule, it has out lived it's purpose. President Carre used it to tighten the meetings up which was a good idea, but then he abused it to shut people down when the issue turned away from the direction he thought it should go. President Trnka used the rule well but when it comes to things like the way the budget was presented this year we should have ****caned the rule.
2. If items are not on the agenda the they shouldn't be heard. This years budget is an excelent example of this. The Board was not sent a final budget in their packets, further we were not apprised prior to the meeting that a dues increase was included in the budget.
3. The AFA has to get serious about the rules. I am following the rules as WSFA President, I am the WSFA's AFA BoD rep. My by laws are very clear about this. However other associations send differnt guys every meeting. Keep in mind that these associations are in the minority, but even still the lack of a concrete agenda and the mild rotation of BoD members slows the BoD meetings to a fn crawl sometimes.
4. Do we really need to hear from the committees every meeting? For those of you who haven't ever been to an AFA Board Meeting you have to understand that the majority of the meeting is listenting to committee reports. Look, Roy Bloom is a great guy and I love visiting with him, but I don't think that he needs to be at the mid year meeting, nor does the certification chair or any other chair for that matter. Unless the committee has a pressing issue the Vice-President should be allowed to give an overview of the various committees actions. The only committees we should hear from are the Ad-Hocs because what they are doin is actually pressing AFA business. We should hear the committee chairs at the annual BoD meeting of course, but the difference is that we can reconvein at convention.

It's almost time for work so i'll wrap this up for now. It's really suposed to rain tommrow so perhaps I'll say more to this, but then again I might not
Soliceter General Warning: This message may not have been spell checked for your protection
Just a piece of advice, think to yourself is this something I would say in front of a client, before your click the submit button.
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RE:Other AFA issues 13 Apr 2006 14:19 #187

John,

Thank you for your note. I would try to be brief but you have asked for a lot and that precludes brevity. First and foremost that some of my fellow members have seen fit to nominate me for this office is very humbling. After a lot of discussion they have convinced me that I had something to offer so I have finally acquiesced.
Phantom Farrier wrote:
I see in my recent AFA update that you have put your name in the hat for Secretary - Walt Taylor will be a tough act to follow.
This is something that I am very much aware of. It is my hope that if the members find it in their interests to elect me that Walt will make himself available as a mentor. His vast experience and wisdom would be a valuable resource of consultation as I try to fulfill my obligations and form my own opinions about the issues that would be currently facing the AFA.
Phantom Farrier wrote:
It appears that you, Ron, were VERY eager to support the previous Executive Committee in their efforts to pursue licensing and regulation of the farrier industry.
John if you go back and read everything I have written, I believe that you will see a picture of my defending the actual facts of what occurred. There was so much deliberate misinformation and manipulative presentation I felt, and still do feel, that someone needed to step in to defend the facts. You should also note that I have been extremely critical of the original Licensing and Registration Task Force’s tactics and methodology.

Along the line somewhere I have also stated pretty clearly that I believed that the AFA has no place in political activism. It doesn’t matter if it is on the issue of licensing and registration or not. The AFA must and should concern itself will all aspects of the farrier profession by conducting research and enhancing both farrier and client education, but it is prohibited by law from political advocacy and I will work to keep it that way.
Phantom Farrier wrote:
You may have been part of the Farrier Education Task Force
Actually, I was appointed to this task force and participated in its one and only meeting. Education is incredibly important and I wanted to help our association develop an appropriate understanding of how farrier students are currently being educated. To volunteer to serve I called the office and was fortunate enough to be selected to be one of the members. I was disappointed in the task force not being allowed to do its job. However, AFEC was formed and it has committed to implementing a standardized education and testing framework based upon Mr. Butler’s work in response to the AFA’s beginning this process so I believe that the task force had some positive effect. It is my hope that AFEC follows through on its commitments.
Phantom Farrier wrote:
because of this outspoken support you were suddenly awarded the chairmanship of the Louisiana Rescue - a great cause for sure.
I hate to be so forceful on this point but you couldn’t be more wrong. I was appointed the chairman of the Louisiana Rescue Horse Shoeing Task Force because I had the idea. I saw a need so I got on the phone and convinced Mr. Trnka and the members of the EC that it was a good idea. Then I proceeded to work to overcome the many obstacles that were in the task force's path to success along the way. You and others may not remember or realize, but no one in the history of the AFA had ever done something like this before and I can tell you the members of the EC were very nervous about it. I believe that it was, in fact, my corporate administrative and project management experience that convinced the EC that I could get the job done.

In less that 30 days with the help of the task force members we assembled, equipped, housed and fed the team of farriers going into LA. We arrived exactly when the Vets told us they wanted us to be there, although we were ready to go two weeks earlier, and we delivered all of the services needed by the horses on site. Those services ranged from simple trims to hand made shoes for draft horse shoeing. There was a bit of everything in between and more founder shoeing than anyone would ever want to see at one time. Until you see it the affects of that kind of stress and the deplorable conditions that those horses were retrieved from are simply unbelievable.

It was truly a learning experience and hearing back from the Vets and Coordinator about the positive impact on those horse’s lives has been one of my prouder moments. The members of the task force did an amazing job and I was humbled watching them. Did everything go perfectly or smoothly? Nope. But we got the job done and it was the members of the AFA that made it happen. Anyone wanting to get a fuller picture should request a copy of my final report to the BOD from the office or if you want drop me an email and I’ll get it out to you.
Phantom Farrier wrote:
How do you plan to shed the perception of being in the pockets of the prior administration?
I don’t know that I need to. I wanted to be involved and contribute to the AFA. I believe that being a member of an organization requires me to contribute. I must be willing to give what I have if I want to take what I need. I volunteered to do the things that needed doing and I, as I hope every member will, have worked on issues that were important to me. The administration in place at that time was, to my knowledge, always working within the guidelines set by the bylaws and that is all I could have asked.
Phantom Farrier wrote:
Some members may have difficulty supporting you in any potential role of influence or power within the AFA.
John, as I recall, about a third of the members voting had a problem supporting your candidacy. That is how it works. I don’t expect it to work any differently for me. The members will make up their minds and I’ll respect their decision.
Phantom Farrier wrote:
We don't know very much about you - maybe you could shed some light on a few things concerning your candidacy.
Before I became a full time farrier I spent 29 years working in the Information Systems departments for companies large and small in varying roles from a programmer at the beginning up through varying levels of management with my top job being the Chief Technical Officer for an internet company in Nashville. When considering this candidacy it became clear to me that what I had to offer was my significant corporate experience and gray hair. The Secretary’s role in the AFA is about details and corporate compliance. Having extensive professional experience with both I feel I have the ability to deliver maturity and skill to the job. This is an administrative position and it is my corporate experience that is my strongest asset.

On other fronts, I feel strongly that the AFA needs to find ways to make the process of governance more transparent to its membership. It is my hope that if I am elected that I will be able to work with the EC and BOD to develop clear lines of communication to the membership that will keep them informed about the critical issues facing the AFA in advance of major decisions so they will be able to work with their BOD representatives to make their voices heard. It is the BOD that makes AFA policy and I believe that if their members have a strong feeling about things the BOD will listen.

Having such a deep technology background should allow me to work with the EC and ED to address the state of technology being used by the AFA. In my mind we are missing the boat in this service segment and we need to capitalize on our opportunities in that arena. The members have complained about this on a number of occasions and it is one of those areas that I feel I am uniquely capable of addressing.

Finally, it is my hope that the membership will see me for exactly who I am and still support me. I am flawed but I work hard to overcome my flaws. I don’t have all the answers or even know all the questions so I hope that the membership will help me out along the way. I don’t have time for, I am not very good at and I do not enjoy gamesmanship so I try to avoid it when possible. I call it like I see it, sometimes too sharply, but I am able and willing to admit that I have made mistakes when I make them.

Most of all I am just like everybody else. I am trying to make a living at a very hard job and happy for all the help I can get. Hopefully as Secretary I’ll be able to give everyone a little help along the way.
Phantom Farrier wrote:
I like a man who puts his money where his mouth is.
Can I take this to mean that you support my candidacy?
Ronald E. Kramedjian, RJF

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RE:Other AFA issues 13 Apr 2006 15:27 #188

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Jaye Perry wrote:
(deletia) . . . A lot of committees with purposed purposes, but hell, nothing "hardly" every gets out of committee.

A camel is what you get when you ask a committee to design a horse.




.
Tom Bloomer
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Here's the deal. I'm trying to keep it simple.
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RE:Other AFA issues 13 Apr 2006 19:58 #189

  • Rick Burten
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T.N. Trosin wrote:
But in turn in order for the board to do it's job a couple of things are going to have to change.
1. We have to get rid of the 2 minute, talk twice rule, it has out lived it's purpose. President Carre used it to tighten the meetings up which was a good idea, but then he abused it to shut people down when the issue turned away from the direction he thought it should go. President Trnka used the rule well but when it comes to things like the way the budget was presented this year we should have ****caned the rule.
I agree. I do think that there is a mechanism(within Robert's Rules of Order perhaps?) to allow for extending the time allotted and maybe for even waiving the time requirements. All that said, the board made the rule, the board needs to be the one that modifies/eliminates it. IIRC, the 2 min. rule came into effect after the first Rochester, NY BOD meeting that went 12-14+ hours.
2. If items are not on the agenda the they shouldn't be heard. This years budget is an excelent example of this. The Board was not sent a final budget in their packets, further we were not apprised prior to the meeting that a dues increase was included in the budget.
Were this the case(and I mostly agree with your sentiment)then how would the BOD have fulfilled its fiduciary responsibility to have the/any FY07 budget in place subsequent to the meeting?
Further, since it is the job of the Finance committee to present a budget for approval, at the annual meeting, what steps should have been taken to deal with the change in the budget presented from that which was sent out? Or, should the board only have been willing to act on the proposed budget the reps received in their packets prior to the meeting? Should the question of a dues increase then been made as a seperate issue for discussion, ammending and approval, and then those new values merely added into the "available cash reserve" or the like, account and reflected only in the bottom line of the approved(and hence, ammended) budget?

My own personal take on the situation is that the board basically abrogated its responsibility by passing the budget that reflected a $70.00 increase in the dues, and then debating and eventually agreeing to a dues increase of $45.00. Personally, I think the board should have passed only the budget that reflected a current dues of $105.00(which was, as I understand it, the budget sent out in the reps packet), tabled the discussion on a dues increase until the mid-year meeting, and in the interim, come up with a workable plan for annual increases in the dues based on a sensible, explainable, palatable to the membership, rationale. That however is water over the dam.
3. The AFA has to get serious about the rules. I am following the rules as WSFA President, I am the WSFA's AFA BoD rep. My by laws are very clear about this. However other associations send differnt guys every meeting. Keep in mind that these associations are in the minority, but even still the lack of a concrete agenda and the mild rotation of BoD members slows the BoD meetings to a fn crawl sometimes.
It is my long held opinion that the position of BOD representative should be a seperately elected position from each chapter, and that the term of service should be four(4) years with as many terms as the chapter is willing to give its representative. This is not to say the a Chapter president could not also be a BOD representative, rather, that the Chapter president would have to run for the office of BOD rep seperately from the office of Chapter President. It would have to be made clear that a Chapter president could hold both offices simultaneously, but would not have to, and that regardless of his/her future status as the Chapter president, his/her term of office as BOD rep would be four years, with renewals available per his/her chapter's desires.

To accomplish this would require an ammendment to the bylaws and personally I think that the mechanism should be set in place in time to be discussed and voted on at the mid-year BOD meeting 09Sept2006.

Further, I think that any chapter whose representative fails to attend the meetings, should be censured in some manner such that a repeat no-show will not occur.
4. Do we really need to hear from the committees every meeting? For those of you who haven't ever been to an AFA Board Meeting you have to understand that the majority of the meeting is listenting to committee reports. Look, Roy Bloom is a great guy and I love visiting with him, but I don't think that he needs to be at the mid year meeting, nor does the certification chair or any other chair for that matter. Unless the committee has a pressing issue the Vice-President should be allowed to give an overview of the various committees actions.
Committee chairs are supposed to submit a written report that is to be included in the BOD rep's packet. Done correctly, and assuming the BOD reps actually read the reports, then it seems to me too that verbal reports by each committee chair at the mid-year are unnecessary. And, if the BOD reps have any questions based on their reading of the reports, then they have a month to contact the AFA Vice President , pose their questions, then allow the VP to get the answers and report at the mid-year. If 30 days is not enough lead time, then lets make it 45 days or whatever. And, if the VP is not convinced that the answers given him/her are going to be adequete, then the VP should have the ability to require any given committee chair to be present at the BOD meeting and to hold him/herself availble to answer any and all questions board members might have.

Even at the Annual meeting, it seems to me that the commimttee reports should be done AFTER rather than before the budget discussions. Unless of course, the BOD is going to be willing to meet for as long as it takes, at convention, to properly hammer out a budget. To date, that initiative has not been in evidence.
The only committees we should hear from are the Ad-Hocs because what they are doin is actually pressing AFA business. We should hear the committee chairs at the annual BoD meeting of course, but the difference is that we can reconvein at convention.
Agreed, with my above caveats.

Here's something else to consider. Right now, any AFA member who is not also a member of an affiliated AFA Chapter, has no representation on the BOD. IIRC, non-chapter affiliated membership is somewhere in the 50-55% range. This means that potentially, half or more of the AFA members have no voice on the BOD. IMNTBCHO, this needs to change, and soon. And, even if the percentage is less than what I recall, these members are, at this juncture, still disinfranchised.

It is my understanding that the composition of the board and the manner in which it is composed is undergoing some review and scrutiny. I hope to have more information and a better understanding on/of this process sometime soon.

Rick
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."


Je pense donc je suis
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RE:Other AFA issues 14 Apr 2006 00:44 #190

From the BOD minutes -

Total AFA members- 3414
AFA members who are also chapter members-1640
AFA members who not chapter members-1774

Bottom line- more than half of the AFA's membership has no representation on the BOD.
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RE:Other AFA issues 14 Apr 2006 01:03 #191

  • Jaye Perry
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Roy Amaral CJF wrote:
From the BOD minutes -

Total AFA members- 3414
AFA members who are also chapter members-1640
AFA members who not chapter members-1774

Bottom line- more than half of the AFA's membership has no representation on the BOD.


Tabulates into 35.48 people/members per state are not being incorporated into a chapter. Looks like an outreach program for a commitee.

Woo!!!, that would be $266,100.00 of revenue into the AFA. That is at the new level of endowment. A quarter of that 35.48 would be an influx $66+K the first year.
That a lot of cabbage to count John!!!
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RE:Other AFA issues 14 Apr 2006 04:53 #192

  • Rick Burten
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Jaye,

The AFA is already receiving that income. It would be the chapters who would benefit if those 1700+ were to affliliate with their State chapter.

More importantly, a mechanism must be developed to give these people representation on the BOD.
Rick Burten PF

In the immortal words of Ron White: "But let me tell you something, folks: You can't fix S-tupid. There's not a pill you can take; there's not a class you can go to. S-tupid is forever."
."


Je pense donc je suis
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RE:Other AFA issues 14 Apr 2006 10:37 #193

  • Jaye Perry
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Rick Burten wrote:
Jaye,

The AFA is already receiving that income. It would be the chapters who would benefit if those 1700+ were to affliliate with their State chapter.

More importantly, a mechanism must be developed to give these people representation on the BOD.

Damn I made mistake this year. :D
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RE:Other AFA issues 14 Apr 2006 10:37 #194

Tom & Rick:

With the recent report from Ray Ziler at REDW, relating to the relationship between the Chapters and the AFA, how do you propose that the AFA handle the potential issue of the IRS determining that the AFA is responsible for the fiscal accounting of the 53 Chapters? As ED (although today is my last day in that role), I have a tremendous amount of concern that the AFA could be held liable for all taxes and penalties for the Chapters who do not currently file tax returns to their state and federal governments.

While the question was asked at the Board Meeting (and I quickly jumped up and requested that no one answer it), the answer to "How many Chapters currently file tax returns?" could have been very interesting. I visited with one Chapter president who, according to their bylaws, is a 501 (c) 3 (same tax status as the AFA). When asked if they file a tax return, the answer was clear - No. That concerns me deeply. While I know that there are exemptions to file a full return based upon the amount of income an entity earns, there are still requirements that need to be met. An honestly, I'd be surprised if more than 25% of the 53 Chapters were meeting those obligations.

When we instituted the requirement for Certification Hosts to provide the AFA with a certificate of insurance, it wasn't done to protect the AFA. We already have insurance and if someone were to get hurt, all parties would be sued, and the AFA would have insurance. We asked for the insurance to get Chapters to "protect themselves". What we learned is that many Chapters didn't have any type of general liability insurance coverage. They now purchase a "one-day policy" to cover the Certification. What about the other events their chapters sponsors - clinics, trail rides, meetings, etc. Who covers those?

I'd also be surprised if any of the Chapters carry Directors and Officers Liability coverage. This too concerns me. When farriers agree to serve on Board of Directors their actions (i.e. motions on the Board) could have far reaching impacts on their associations and this industry. And if their actions were to be determined by a single farrier as personally damaging, that Chapter and its entire Board of Directors could be sued. With no D & O insurance, the courts could look immediately at the personal assets and insurance of the Board members. Are you prepared for that type of action?

Here's a thought for you. The AFA currently pays:

a. General Liability Insurance - $630.49 per year (this is a $2 million policy) (it also includes a surety bond for officers and staff for those who touch the finances of the association)
b. Directors & Officers Liabilty - $2,251.00 per year (this is a $1 million policy)

As you can see the AFA is very concerned about protecting the Board of Directors. Other associations need to heed this information.

I hope I haven't scared you, but if this industry truly wants to move from being "social" to "professional" in nature, then some strong planning needs to be done. And that planning needs to start NOW!

Bryan
Bryan Quinsey
Administrative Director
Friesian Horse Association of North America
(859) 533-1576 (cell)
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RE:Other AFA issues 14 Apr 2006 10:58 #195

Bryan,

Thanks again for all your help and all you've done to improve this association. Hope you will stay in touch with us and let us know if we can do anything for you. Good luck with the Freisian Horse Society - you will be our neighbor - maybe we'll see you again and can have lunch.

Sincerely,

John :)
"The work will teach you how to do it"
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