make up natural cara make up make up tutorial make up korea make up minimalis make up artis make up mata belajar make up make up wardah alat make up makeup forever indonesia makeup artist jakarta tips make up barbie make up natural make up make up wajah make up pesta make up syahrini makeup mata makeup minimalis peralatan make up make up cantik make up mac make up kit jual make up make up sederhana perlengkapan make up gambar make up vidio make up cara makeup minimalis wardah make up make up pac make up glamour cara memakai makeup make up panggung harga make up make up modern make up alami make up dasar pixy make up make up muslimah make up oriflame make up jepang makeover cosmetic make up ultima make up sariayu grosir make up makeup fantasi makeup pesta tas makeup langkah make up make up pria make up malam alat makeup tahapan make up produk make up shading make up mak up make up kebaya make up jilbab make up inez make up simpel contoh make up cara ber makeup makeup wajah tanpa make up make up terbaru toko make up mac makeup indonesia make up soft urutan make up trik make up makeover makeup brand gusnaldi make up paket make up panduan make up jual makeup brush make up bagus alat2 make up make up gusnaldi aplikasi make up alat alat makeup dasar make up inez make up peralatan makeup make up wanita make up berjilbab make up tebal sejarah make up make up maybeline make up branded make up siang tata cara makeup reseller make up make up muslim make up maybelin warna make up tips make up artist rias make up make up mata make up artis belajar make up make up artist kursus make up kuas make up make up forever indonesia jual make up mac indonesia make up make up artist indonesia harga make up forever jual make up online make up pac make up forever jakarta make up oriflame jual make up forever make up online shop indonesia harga make up sekolah make up grosir make up harga make up maybelline jual make up murah make up terbaru mak up mac make up indonesia sofia make up make up kit murah mac makeup indonesia produk make up jual make up kit make up store indonesia make up forever academy jakarta toko make up online jual make up set jual make up mac make up beauty jual make up branded produk make up mac make up forever harga make up mac indonesia produk make up artis jual make up palette produk make up forever make up palette murah before after make up pengantin before after make up sendiri before n after hasil makeup contoh make up karakter contoh riasan pengantin before n after harga make up wisuda harga make up artist harga make up forever make up wisuda rias wisuda di jogja Daftar harga make up forever daftar harga make up mac daftar harga kosmetik make up forever makeup wisuda harga makeup wisuda kursus make up di yogyakarta kursus make up di jogja kursus make up jogja kursus make up yogyakarta kursus kecantikan di yogyakarta kursus kecantikan di jogja kursus make up artist di jogja kursus rias pengantin di jogja kursus rias di yogyakarta kursus tata rias di yogyakarta rias pengantin muslim jogja jasa kreasi jilbab wisuda yogyakarta jasa rias make up wisuda murah bagus bisa dpanggil tempat make uf di jigja yang bagus rias wisuda murah dan berkualitas yogyakarta pakar kreasi jilbab di jogja make uper natural yogya make up wisuda hijab area jogja make up dan kreasi jilbab yang bagus di jogja jasa make up natural untuk wisuda jogja makeup jogja make up jogja makeup yogyakarta make up yogyakarta makeup wisuda jogja make up wisuda jogja make up wisuda yogyakarta makeup wisuda yogyakarta
Saturday May 28, 2022
Welcome, Guest
Username: Password: Remember me

TOPIC: Other AFA issues

Other AFA issues 30 Jan 2006 08:55 #1

  • T.N. Trosin
  • T.N. Trosin's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Very Senior Member
  • Posts: 738
  • Karma: 0
I start this thread beacause the licencing thread is turning away from licencing (maybe there is nothing else to say?).
Please note: What I say here is nothing I haven't or wouldn't say to any AFA member or member of AFA leadership

from the licencing threadPhil Armitage wrote:
Frank's remarks are harsh, but they are targeted to what he sees as a problem with the AFA and the Farrier trade and to be honest I do not have a problem with that and have not found them to be offensive.
JMHO

Frank's remarks are harsh and full of conjecture that is similar to everybody else who has an ax to grind with the AFA, so pardon me Phil if I do take offense to what he says.

The thing about Frank and though Rick will most likely disagree with me, is he is a smart man smarter than someone who should fall for the rumor and innuendo that circulates around the perimeter (no pun intended) of the AFA.
There is no denying that leadership does thing wrong from time to time, who doesn't? Ever made a mistake? I have. But by the same token I am losing patience with both sides of the line (the AFA and the non AFA members).

The AFA is still not conscious of it's image it's actions or it's lack of action on certain things. Is it improving? of course. Not withstanding, the AFA would like to be the all knowing all seeing leading authority on hoof care, but how can it when it fails to accept certain truths? It fails constantly to reach it's hand out to the breed shoers, it fails to dedicate efforts towards track farriers and better understanding of the effect or lack of toe grabs, shoot the AFA can't even consistently get out renewal notices to its membership; if it did that I would have a 15-year pin. It's not to say that they aren't working on these thing and plans to get these items back to the forefront. But I can say those things because I know; I have and will continue to belong to the AFA henceforth.

But people like Frank and R. come along and say how bad the AFA is and they get their ideas from a disgruntled magazine publisher and because they either failed a test or got teased or blown off by an AFA member or something like that, and they CHOSE to stay mad about what ever it is and battle against what is a very good organization.
Further, they CHOSE to remain on the outside instead of lending their voice and vote to get the AFA to pay more attention to the regular working farrier who has no asperation of making the team or being involved in the leadership of the club. If I had a thousand of these guy who would be willing to put their name on the line and risk the fact that their lives could be better not through organization or registration or licencing but the fact that education and personal betterment brings success I could change the course of the AFA. The sad thing is that the guys I need to do this (pay attention Bloomer) get frustrated and leave instead of hanging around and just learning for a while.

Our whole business is based in presure and time, if you contine to leave a bump in the medial toe quarter of the left hind foot of a horse you will create a jam and then once you figure out that wrong it takes you twice as long to get it out of there because it has become a big jam. Same thing with the acceptance of "new" ways of doing things. 30 years ago when Burney was flying around and putting everyting in heart bars a good majority of farriers never even heard of the things, now they have out grown their use on just foundered horses and are used for varrious problems. That was because people asked questions, guys went home and tried things. Duckett revisited Dollar and Russels thoughts on the center of the coffin bone. Ovinick realized that sometimes you have to wedge the foot from the ground surface and so did the AFA WHY? Because people knew more and they knew what questions they needed to ask.

This is what it's suposed to be about. It's suposed to be about learning and growing and better serving the horse and colaterally making more money doing it.

Now as Cowell says "off you go"
Soliceter General Warning: This message may not have been spell checked for your protection
Just a piece of advice, think to yourself is this something I would say in front of a client, before your click the submit button.
The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:Other AFA issues 01 Feb 2006 00:16 #2

  • George Geist
  • George Geist's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Master
  • Posts: 3336
  • Thank you received: 3
  • Karma: 3
Ok Mr. Trosin,
The AFA has often been accused rightly or wrongly of being a clique. Not just from guys like Franky but also guys like Tom Bloomer. It is something I never really took much notice of or cared much about. In fact I think I saw it more that way years ago than now. Maybe they've improved or maybe I've just quit caring. I've been around too long for stuff like that to really bother me one way or the other.

I have noticed an alarming trend perhaps someone from AFA might answer this if their looking in. Why is it necessary to be a CJF to be a tester? (wait it gets better) Why is it necessary to be a CJF to be President of the AFA? Why is it necessary to be a CJF before being allowed the privelage of serving as an officer in any capacity? And finally the newest one. Why is it necessary to be a CJF before being allowed to participate in the cultural exchange program? It is also necessary to be on the AFT. Why?

Do we see a pattern here? All of what the AFA has to offer ought to be available to all dues paying members. To be moving in this direction is clearly a case of some being more equal than others. I believe stuff like this bothers non-members as well as a lot of members.

George
For another fun place to play........
www.horseshoersforum.invisionzone.com
Come over and say hello.
The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:Other AFA issues 01 Feb 2006 07:24 #3

  • T.N. Trosin
  • T.N. Trosin's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Very Senior Member
  • Posts: 738
  • Karma: 0
George Geist wrote:
Ok Mr. Trosin,
The AFA has often been accused rightly or wrongly of being a clique. Not just from guys like Franky but also guys like Tom Bloomer.

Thus why I called for Toms attention in the post. As I said a lot of people who join the AFA walk in get a perception of "there is nothing here for me" and leave insted of saying "hey wait a minute I thought this was for me". I see this a lot from the second profession guys (no offense Bloomer/ Ron/ anbody else who being a farrier wasn't their first choice of profession).
George Geist wrote:
It is something I never really took much notice of or cared much about. In fact I think I saw it more that way years ago than now. Maybe they've improved or maybe I've just quit caring. I've been around too long for stuff like that to really bother me one way or the other.

Me too. I guess it's because this has been my only job, this is what I do. I was raised by a horseshoer, I know how we think. We have a diffrent outlook on things because we've been around for ever. Though I don't know your employment history, from what you write I believe that horseshoeing is yours as well.
George Geist wrote:
I have noticed an alarming trend perhaps someone from AFA might answer this if their looking in. Why is it necessary to be a CJF to be a tester?
The same reason you need to be a union plater to give the union test
George Geist wrote:
(wait it gets better) Why is it necessary to be a CJF to be President of the AFA? Why is it necessary to be a CJF before being allowed the privelage of serving as an officer in any capacity?
My personal perspective, I think is necassary for the leader of the AFA to be a CJF because it shows faith in the test and the testing process.
You do not have to be a CJF to be an executive just to be President.
George Geist wrote:
And finally the newest one. Why is it necessary to be a CJF before being allowed to participate in the cultural exchange program? It is also necessary to be on the AFT. Why?

The Cultural exchange is suposed to be for the young folks so I don't know why they would have done that. I'm going to check my policy manual on that one. As far as the AFT because they are the "ambasidors of the association". (whatever). Fact of the matter is if you are good enough to make the team suck it up and take the test, in therory it should be a breeze compaired to the rigors of a day in a contest.
George Geist wrote:
Do we see a pattern here? All of what the AFA has to offer ought to be available to all dues paying members.
George
Yes it should. While I disagree with your points on the AFT and the president position in the AFA, I do agree that there is a perception that the "Star bellied Sneches" are better that the ones with out stars does exist on both sides.
Soliceter General Warning: This message may not have been spell checked for your protection
Just a piece of advice, think to yourself is this something I would say in front of a client, before your click the submit button.
The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:Other AFA issues 01 Feb 2006 14:18 #4

  • Gary_Miller
  • Gary_Miller's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Master
  • Posts: 2565
  • Thank you received: 1
  • Karma: 0
T.N. Trosin wrote:
Thus why I called for Toms attention in the post. As I said a lot of people who join the AFA walk in get a perception of "there is nothing here for me" and leave insted of saying "hey wait a minute I thought this was for me". I see this a lot from the second profession guys (no offense Bloomer/ Ron/ anbody else who being a farrier wasn't their first choice of profession).
Could it be that us "second profession guys" have been around the block enough times to know that unless a orginization has something to offer it not worth the money to join. I joined on a student membership while the magazine is nice and I looked forward to reading it. I found very little else if anything that would help me in my day to day business. Many horse owner and stable managers did not even know the AFA exsited. So until the AFA starts promoting the organization so that its a benifit to be a part of I think I will put my money to better use somewhere else helping to build my buisness.

Gary
Gary Miller, PF

Ride hard, shoot straight, and always speak the truth.
Gunfighter Motto

"Our level of quality is how well our eye can see it." (Eric Russell, Oct 2008, Horseshoes.com)

"Discover what it is that makes you passionate then grab a firm...
The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:Other AFA issues 01 Feb 2006 14:51 #5

  • T.N. Trosin
  • T.N. Trosin's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Very Senior Member
  • Posts: 738
  • Karma: 0
Gary_Miller wrote:
Could it be that us "second profession guys" have been around the block enough times to know that unless a orginization has something to offer it not worth the money to join. I joined on a student membership while the magazine is nice and I looked forward to reading it. I found very little else if anything that would help me in my day to day business.
Gary

and thats fine I appreciate that. By the same token that is part of the problem.
Can I ask you a question?
At anytime did you contact anybody from the AFA or your local Association and say Hi my names Gary and this is what I need from your club, can you help me?
Soliceter General Warning: This message may not have been spell checked for your protection
Just a piece of advice, think to yourself is this something I would say in front of a client, before your click the submit button.
The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:Other AFA issues 01 Feb 2006 14:55 #6

  • T.N. Trosin
  • T.N. Trosin's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Very Senior Member
  • Posts: 738
  • Karma: 0
George Geist wrote:
And finally the newest one. Why is it necessary to be a CJF before being allowed to participate in the cultural exchange program?
George

George I checked my policy manual last night and you do not have to be a CJF to participate in the cultural exchange program. Further I didn't see anything on the AFA BoD agenda concerning making that a requirement.
Soliceter General Warning: This message may not have been spell checked for your protection
Just a piece of advice, think to yourself is this something I would say in front of a client, before your click the submit button.
The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:Other AFA issues 01 Feb 2006 21:48 #7

T.N. Trosin wrote:
and thats fine I appreciate that. By the same token that is part of the problem.
Can I ask you a question?
At anytime did you contact anybody from the AFA or your local Association and say Hi my names Gary and this is what I need from your club, can you help me?

That is too funny, your saying call if you need something. How about the AFA doing a better job of educateing the public about what they can do for them, that would make much more sense. That is basic buisness principles. Pretty egotistical to think here I am I am great and if people need help call us. To get back to Gary's point, I have never ever ever been asked about the AFA by a horse owner or if I have gone to school or certified. My schedule is full, my customer are happy, why would I call them? I will tell you why I am a member, it is to belong to something, I picked the AFA because they seem to be the best in my opinion. I joined for personal reasons, comradery, personal satisfaction and growth. To share storys with people that I have someting in common with, eat drink and have a few laughs.
Phil Armitage, CF
AFA member 7480

"Anyone who proposes to do good must not expect people to roll stones out of his way, but must accept his lot calmly if they even roll a few more upon it." Albert Schweitzer
The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:Other AFA issues 02 Feb 2006 03:50 #8

  • Bill Adams
  • Bill Adams's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Master
  • Posts: 4185
  • Thank you received: 9
  • Karma: 6
T.N. Trosin wrote:
Can I ask you a question?
At anytime did you contact anybody from the AFA or your local Association and say Hi my names Gary and this is what I need from your club, can you help me?

I have a better question for Gary;
Did you ever call the AFA and ask what you could do to help them? Hell they need people to set up at events and scoop up horse shat. Maybe you could hold horses for folks doing their certification (a clue may be obtained as to how to pass). You mat be able to show a guy who's newer than you how to do a thing or two and encourage him and he would appreaticate it and at the next event would come over to you and say "hey" and talk for a while with a couple of your other buddys and then people could say that you guys are a clique.
Not picking on you alone Gary you just happened to pop your head up, and I know you can take it any way.

George,
It's wrong to have the officials of an organization show that they can do what they require? I have heard many complain that Walt Taylor isn't a CJF, and I can think of no defence for him. Should I be the head of your kid's English department or would you like me to pass a few more spelling tests first?

I can't follow these political threads too close as to time constraints, but the one situation that impresses me the most is where Dave Purves got jerked around big time with his certification and as far as I can see has a lot to gripe about and it was totally wrong what the testers did to him. So he kept going and passed the test. This puts Dave in a position to say what ever he damm well pleases about the process. With him it's not "I could have if, but I did anyway".

I spend a lot more on coffee and ale per year than on the AFA and I bet everyone else here dose too. If you don't want to join then don't, if your not in then the AFA is none of your business. That is ofcourse untill we take over the world, then we will tell you what to think and do.
Bill

A rightous man regardeth the life of his beast. Proverbs 12:10
I don't give a damn for a man who can only spell a word one way. Mark Twain
The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:Other AFA issues 02 Feb 2006 04:55 #9

  • J.H. shoeing
  • J.H. shoeing's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Master
  • Posts: 1793
  • Thank you received: 2
  • Karma: 0
Bill

I have a small Starbucks habit that I am sure cost more than my AFA dues.

Jeff, CF
Jeff Holder

Some people are like Slinky’s, pretty much useless but make you smile when you push them down the stairs.
The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:Other AFA issues 02 Feb 2006 05:00 #10

I just joined the afa and I feel it was a good choice. I don't really expect anything but anything I do get I will be glad for it. Once I am able to certify and will have more of a say then if I see something wrong I can help change it to something that will help others who are just starting out. I wish I was able to get a hold of people for an apprenticeship a little easier, but I have had help from several people Bill and Tom for example. They both offered to let me come see how they work for a day or two. This is something that I really like about us farriers, we help eachother out where we can. So I don't see why everyone get so argumentative over the AFA. It needs work, but what doesn't just get your rear's in gear and do something about it. :eek: I am only 23 so I am FAR from knowing everything about anything, which is why I look to the more experianced people to help me along. I know everyone has a different opinion about dang near everything, but if they could all come together and make the AFA into something that has some solid foundation, that would be a real start to taking hold of all that appears to be on its way for our way of living. Just a short rant, sorry if I ****ed anyone off.
Chad Cordes
The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:Other AFA issues 02 Feb 2006 05:02 #11

  • Gary_Miller
  • Gary_Miller's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Master
  • Posts: 2565
  • Thank you received: 1
  • Karma: 0
T.N. Trosin wrote:
Can I ask you a question? At anytime did you contact anybody from the AFA or your local Association and say Hi my names Gary and this is what I need from your club, can you help me?
I'am a member of the local association and although I don't know alot of the folks I feel I know enough of them if I needed or wanted help they would help me. I ride two days a week with a CJF who teaches me and answers any questions I would want.

Gary
Gary Miller, PF

Ride hard, shoot straight, and always speak the truth.
Gunfighter Motto

"Our level of quality is how well our eye can see it." (Eric Russell, Oct 2008, Horseshoes.com)

"Discover what it is that makes you passionate then grab a firm...
The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:Other AFA issues 02 Feb 2006 05:33 #12

  • Gary_Miller
  • Gary_Miller's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Master
  • Posts: 2565
  • Thank you received: 1
  • Karma: 0
Bill Adams wrote:
I have a better question for Gary;
Did you ever call the AFA and ask what you could do to help them? Hell they need people to set up at events and scoop up horse shat. Maybe you could hold horses for folks doing their certification (a clue may be obtained as to how to pass). You mat be able to show a guy who's newer than you how to do a thing or two and encourage him and he would appreaticate it and at the next event would come over to you and say "hey" and talk for a while with a couple of your other buddys and then people could say that you guys are a clique.
Not picking on you alone Gary you just happened to pop your head up, and I know you can take it any way.
Since I live clear across the contry from the AFA office it hard to call and offer them any help.
However after my horse shoeing course I joined the local association , Farriers of Idaho Guilds (FIG). I was right out of school less than a month when I attended my first pre-certification clinc. I only attended as an observer watching and helping where I could. A month latter I went to the certification where I worked as a scribe for one of the testers. I learned alot and I'm sure it will help me as I get ready for my certification. I think the tihing I learned alot was the need for time management and working out a system where you are not taking to many steps.
This fall I attended a clinc where Crag was the clintition it was very informative with alot of good pointers. My mentor and myself has spent several hours just discussing what we learned and how we can apply it in our daily practice.

Let me tell you about an experiance I had when I contacted the AFA office to get some information in order to try and promote the AFA and the certification program.

On November 14th 2005, I sent Bryan an e-mail asking for information to help me put a flyer togeather so I could help educate horse owners on what the AFA is all about and the benifits in using a Certified Farrier. In the same email I also asked for a copy of the certification study guide.

Bryan emailed me back that his exact words was "Gary – I’ll have staff send you everything that we have. Bryan"

I recieved the the copy of the study guide and nothing else.

The point is I was trying to help in promoting the AFA and the office did not send me anything I could use.

If I treated my customers like this I would have no customers.

And another note. If you were a new guy with all the stuff that went on last summer with licesing and such. Would you rejoin an organization like that if you had better things to do with your money?


Gary
Gary Miller, PF

Ride hard, shoot straight, and always speak the truth.
Gunfighter Motto

"Our level of quality is how well our eye can see it." (Eric Russell, Oct 2008, Horseshoes.com)

"Discover what it is that makes you passionate then grab a firm...
The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:Other AFA issues 02 Feb 2006 05:47 #13

George et al.
You must be a CJF for the cultural exchange because it has been deemed equivelant to An A.W.C.F. and you may Legaly shoe horses in England and Australia. They have licencing and require a minumum standard to practice farriery in thier country.
The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:Other AFA issues 02 Feb 2006 06:27 #14

  • T.N. Trosin
  • T.N. Trosin's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Very Senior Member
  • Posts: 738
  • Karma: 0
handandhammer wrote:
George et al.
You must be a CJF for the cultural exchange because it has been deemed equivelant to An A.W.C.F. and you may Legaly shoe horses in England and Australia. They have licencing and require a minumum standard to practice farriery in thier country.
You are incorrect sir.
I quote the AFA Chapter Handbook (revised September, 2005), Tab 8, Page 1, paragraphs 5&6 (deletia for the sake of staying germane to the post)

"To participate in the Cultural Exchange Program, applicants must obtain an application from the AFA office. Along with the compleated application, applicants must submit at least two letters of refrence from AFA CJF's."

I'm going to stop here for a minute, becuse this is where I have to agree with George. I'm not a CJF but I have been shoeing horses longer than a good number of the CJF's. I have taught 2 sucessful farriers and culled 10 or more who didn't make it as farriers. Further I have been involved in every portion of my local chapters biggest educational event, one might think that I kinda have an idea wheather or not somebody packs the gear to aduquatily represent me abroad.

The Chapter hand book continues on paragraph 6 for those of you reading along:
"Each applicant must also attend the AFA convention for a personal interview with representitives of the Cultural exchange committee." Here endith the requirements.

No where does it say that you have to be a CJF to participate in the program.

Although I will concede that the last 2 participants that I personaly know of were both CJF's but thats another story for another day.
Soliceter General Warning: This message may not have been spell checked for your protection
Just a piece of advice, think to yourself is this something I would say in front of a client, before your click the submit button.
The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:Other AFA issues 02 Feb 2006 06:44 #15

  • Gary_Miller
  • Gary_Miller's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Master
  • Posts: 2565
  • Thank you received: 1
  • Karma: 0
J.H. shoeing wrote:
Bill

I have a small Starbucks habit that I am sure cost more than my AFA dues.

Jeff, CF
This is the same argument I hear when people want to make another taxing district or a school bound. Its only another xx amount of money thats only xx out to eat dinners or what ever.

That maybe true but it don't fly for two reasons. One, I like my nights out having dinner, and two I my taxes is high enough.

That argument is weak.

Its also a large portion of a pair of nippers, a hoof jack, 1/7 the cost of a forge, or the cost of that new forge liner, or anything else you may need at this time.

I'm not saying the AFA is bad it just there are far better useage of my money right now. Perhaps latter this year when I have a few spare bucks I may renew my membership. If not the next time will be when I take my certification tests.


Gary
Gary Miller, PF

Ride hard, shoot straight, and always speak the truth.
Gunfighter Motto

"Our level of quality is how well our eye can see it." (Eric Russell, Oct 2008, Horseshoes.com)

"Discover what it is that makes you passionate then grab a firm...
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Kunena Birthday Module

  • JWHORSESHOEING birthday is today
  • TheCircleT birthday is today
  • THOROBREDS birthday is today
  • Chris Daniel birthday is in 1 day
  • FordWayFarm birthday is in 1 day
  • Hillbilly898 birthday is in 1 day
  • songlyrics32F075 birthday is in 363 days
  • SonnysMom birthday is in 363 days
  • Rude_n_Ugly birthday is in 364 days
  • Russ in WI birthday is in 364 days
  • Tcasey1968 birthday is in 364 days
Time to create page: 0.230 seconds

S5 Box

Register

*
*
*
*
*
*

Fields marked with an asterisk (*) are required.