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TOPIC: The Fine Governor of the Great State of Rhode Island

RE:The Fine Governor of the Great State of Rhode Island 21 Nov 2011 15:21 #166

  • George Geist
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SlowShoe wrote:
George many recent studies site that fed and state workers make much more than they are worth when compared to private sector.

here its at least one
http://www.usatoday.com/money/economy/income/2010-08-10-1Afedpay10_ST_N.htm



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Ok, if that's true you need to consider this,
In the 1950's Unions negotiated for almost 1/3 of the private sector workforce.
1950's by the way was also the high water mark of the American Middle Class.
Today, less than 8% of rank and file private sector workers hold Union cards.
The only growth of Union representation for the last 30 years has been in the ranks of government employees.

Not sure if it's so much them being paid more than their worth as you think as much as the non-Union private sector NOT being paid what they're worth.

Do you think a parasitic CEO of any company you care to name is worth their pay?
George
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RE:The Fine Governor of the Great State of Rhode Island 21 Nov 2011 16:04 #167

  • Tom Stovall CJF
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George Geist in gray, stuff deleted

It's [Union rule that states one man can perform only one task] called strict interpretation of job description. Is another good thing. In that case it would force company to keep trucks maintained and safe. BTW in most Teamster contracts when a guy isn't driving he's also a dockman.

Detroit, c1969 - State Fair Coliseum, Longhorn IRA Rodeo.

We'd just hauled from OK to Detroit, straight through. We got to the fairgrounds about daylight, unloaded and wanted to turn our horses out in the arena. There coliseum gate was open and the arena gate was open, but there was a wooden traffic barrier across the alley leading to the arena, probably left by the dirt crew when they hauled in the dirt.

One of us started to move the barrier so we could get to the arnea, but one of the locals standing around hollered, "Don't touch that barrier!"

"Why not?"

"You gotta be in the union to move it"

"No problem, come over here and move it."

"Not my job."

"Whose job is it?"

"He ain't here."

"These horses have been in the trailer a long time, they're stiff, and we need to turn 'em loose so they can move around a little, so we're gonna move the barrier ourselves."

You better not, the union will shut this place down.

We were so intimidated that we immediately moved the barriers and turned our horses loose.

Later on, some union guy told Bruce Lehrke (the producer) that we were lucky we didn't get our cowboy arses kicked for moving that barrier. I guess we were too stoopid to recognize our good fortune because we never thought we were in any danger. :)
Tom Stovall, CJF
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RE:The Fine Governor of the Great State of Rhode Island 21 Nov 2011 16:43 #168

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Tom Stovall, CJF wrote:
George Geist in gray, stuff deleted

It's [Union rule that states one man can perform only one task] called strict interpretation of job description. Is another good thing. In that case it would force company to keep trucks maintained and safe. BTW in most Teamster contracts when a guy isn't driving he's also a dockman.

Detroit, c1969 - State Fair Coliseum, Longhorn IRA Rodeo.

We'd just hauled from OK to Detroit, straight through. We got to the fairgrounds about daylight, unloaded and wanted to turn our horses out in the arena. There coliseum gate was open and the arena gate was open, but there was a wooden traffic barrier across the alley leading to the arena, probably left by the dirt crew when they hauled in the dirt.

One of us started to move the barrier so we could get to the arnea, but one of the locals standing around hollered, "Don't touch that barrier!"

"Why not?"

"You gotta be in the union to move it"

"No problem, come over here and move it."

"Not my job."

"Whose job is it?"

"He ain't here."

"These horses have been in the trailer a long time, they're stiff, and we need to turn 'em loose so they can move around a little, so we're gonna move the barrier ourselves."

You better not, the union will shut this place down.

We were so intimidated that we immediately moved the barriers and turned our horses loose.

Later on, some union guy told Bruce Lehrke (the producer) that we were lucky we didn't get our cowboy arses kicked for moving that barrier. I guess we were too stoopid to recognize our good fortune because we never thought we were in any danger. :)
Had similar stuff happen at the Madison Square Garden. LOL:D

This sounds good to me though as I don't think I would've lifted a finger to help the IRA either:p
George
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RE:The Fine Governor of the Great State of Rhode Island 21 Nov 2011 19:24 #169

Tom Stovall, CJF wrote:
George Geist in gray, stuff deleted

It's [Union rule that states one man can perform only one task] called strict interpretation of job description. Is another good thing. In that case it would force company to keep trucks maintained and safe. BTW in most Teamster contracts when a guy isn't driving he's also a dockman.

Detroit, c1969 - State Fair Coliseum, Longhorn IRA Rodeo.

We'd just hauled from OK to Detroit, straight through. We got to the fairgrounds about daylight, unloaded and wanted to turn our horses out in the arena. There coliseum gate was open and the arena gate was open, but there was a wooden traffic barrier across the alley leading to the arena, probably left by the dirt crew when they hauled in the dirt.

One of us started to move the barrier so we could get to the arnea, but one of the locals standing around hollered, "Don't touch that barrier!"

"Why not?"

"You gotta be in the union to move it"

"No problem, come over here and move it."

"Not my job."

"Whose job is it?"

"He ain't here."

"These horses have been in the trailer a long time, they're stiff, and we need to turn 'em loose so they can move around a little, so we're gonna move the barrier ourselves."

You better not, the union will shut this place down.

We were so intimidated that we immediately moved the barriers and turned our horses loose.

Later on, some union guy told Bruce Lehrke (the producer) that we were lucky we didn't get our cowboy arses kicked for moving that barrier. I guess we were too stoopid to recognize our good fortune because we never thought we were in any danger. :)

I would just tell them I am a woman Union horseshoer; and if they better not tell a woman what to do; and if they didn't move the barrier; I would be happy to call the animal control and the animal rights activists and the media; so move the barrier or else. I just don't put up with it.
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RE:The Fine Governor of the Great State of Rhode Island 21 Nov 2011 19:27 #170

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George Geist wrote:
I joined the horse shoers according to the constitution and bylaws of that great Union. Had been in the trade for over 20 years before I joined.

Been doing it for years, works for me.

So you were a scab for 20 years!!!!!

George Geist wrote:
Good question. You occupy a job that more than a few guys would give their left nut for and you don't appreciate it. By all means quit. Is easy to see why your steward would like nothing better than to be rid of you too.

Why would someone around here give there left nut to work a union job, when you can work a non-union job at the coal mine for $2 less an hour a better retirement, better health insurance that you get to keep after retirement for free with ten years of service, about $6,000 coal royalty bonus every year around christmas and a lot safer environment to work in.

You have a hard time keeping up don't you, I have already quit.

I have been on to many jobs to count but I have only had 2 stewards the entire time I have been in the union, most jobs don't have one.

Actually they just called me to go back to work and I declined.

George Geist wrote:
It's called strict interpretation of job description. Is another good thing. In that case it would force company to keep trucks maintained and safe. BTW in most Teamster contracts when a guy isn't driving he's also a dockman.

It doesn't force anyone to keep anything safe, things break and accidents happen. If that person can only operate a truck they get sent home, and lose money. Around here teamsters drive trucks, or they are a combo man also holding a laborers card which allows them to transport workers and do labor work but they are not allowed to drive a truck.
Justin Decker

"As I see it, good enough is never good enough, it's just an excuse for mediocrity. If every shoeing ain't worth your best shot, you're just going through the motions." Tom Stovall, CJF
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RE:The Fine Governor of the Great State of Rhode Island 21 Nov 2011 20:02 #171

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cuttinshoer wrote:
So you were a scab for 20 years!!!!!
Never been a scab in my life. Never worked at any race track without a valid Union card

Why would someone around here give there left nut to work a union job, when you can work a non-union job at the coal mine for $2 less an hour a better retirement, better health insurance that you get to keep after retirement for free with ten years of service, about $6,000 coal royalty bonus every year around christmas and a lot safer environment to work in.
Maybe to prevent stuff like this?
http://www.msha.gov/district/Dist_01/Fatals/histfat.htm
or this
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/04/05/west-virginia-coal-mine-e_n_526151.html
West Virginia has thankfully gone Union again in that formerly scab mine. For some reason it always takes a tragedy
You have a hard time keeping up don't you, I have already quit.
Good for you. that's the best thing you could have done:)
I have been on to many jobs to count but I have only had 2 stewards the entire time I have been in the union, most jobs don't have one.
There's always a Union rep in a Union shop. Can't say as I blame them for keeping away from you though. Had I been one of them I'd have done my best to get rid of you.
Actually they just called me to go back to work and I declined.
Again good on you for that. Hope a better guy moves up the seniority ladder.
It doesn't force anyone to keep anything safe, things break and accidents happen. If that person can only operate a truck they get sent home, and lose money. Around here teamsters drive trucks, or they are a combo man also holding a laborers card which allows them to transport workers and do labor work but they are not allowed to drive a truck.
You didn't mention what it is you claim to have held a membership in. IUOE? UMW? Teamsters? Which was it?
George
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RE:The Fine Governor of the Great State of Rhode Island 21 Nov 2011 21:00 #172

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George Geist wrote:
Ok, if that's true you need to consider this,
In the 1950's Unions negotiated for almost 1/3 of the private sector workforce.
1950's by the way was also the high water mark of the American Middle Class.
Today, less than 8% of rank and file private sector workers hold Union cards.
The only growth of Union representation for the last 30 years has been in the ranks of government employees.

Not sure if it's so much them being paid more than their worth as you think as much as the non-Union private sector NOT being paid what they're worth.

Do you think a parasitic CEO of any company you care to name is worth their pay?
George

Time to go back to the 50s! Prevailing wage makes things so expensive on construction. Unions mixed with politics are to blame for things like the big dig in boston.

Depends on the ceo and company. Steve jobs built his company and provided the market with innovative goods. However any ceo that accepted bailout money is another story.



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RE:The Fine Governor of the Great State of Rhode Island 21 Nov 2011 23:06 #173

  • Tom Stovall CJF
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George Geist in gray

Had similar stuff happen at the Madison Square Garden. LOL
:D

Doubtless, as a dyed-in-the-wool, true-blue, union sympathizer, you left your tired horses tied to your trailer rather than break union rules. Since we were just a bunch of ignorant Texan and Okie rodeo hands, we figured union rules were for union members, so we moved the barrier after being told it was in clear violation of union rules.

When we were warned about the dire consequences of our action, I recall that one of us may have mentioned that if any union member didn't like our moving the barrier could put it in a place that the sun don't shine.

This sounds good to me though as I don't think I would've lifted a finger to help the IRA either:p

Typical union response: More worried about politics than horses. :)
Tom Stovall, CJF
"The only foolish question is the one left unasked."
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RE:The Fine Governor of the Great State of Rhode Island 22 Nov 2011 01:08 #174

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Tom Stovall, CJF wrote:
When we were warned about the dire consequences of our action, I recall that one of us may have mentioned that if any union member didn't like our moving the barrier could put it in a place that the sun don't shine.

Can you imagine the host of supervisors and different union specialists it would have taken to remove it?

A rightous man regardeth the life of his beast. Proverbs 12:10
I don't give a damn for a man who can only spell a word one way. Mark Twain
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RE:The Fine Governor of the Great State of Rhode Island 22 Nov 2011 01:15 #175

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This just in:
As reported today by Amy Goodman, Lincoln Chafee (remember him? He's the guy this thread is about) cut public service pensions in Rhode Island.
No report if benefits for illegal aliens will be cut there.

A rightous man regardeth the life of his beast. Proverbs 12:10
I don't give a damn for a man who can only spell a word one way. Mark Twain
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RE:The Fine Governor of the Great State of Rhode Island 22 Nov 2011 01:46 #176

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SlowShoe wrote:
Time to go back to the 50s! Prevailing wage makes things so expensive on construction.

Wages are a small percentage of the cost of construction, The rising cost of materials and equipment is a bigger factor. Fuel being a huge factor, average piece of large equipment can burn 150-200 gals in an 8 hr. day.
Justin Decker

"As I see it, good enough is never good enough, it's just an excuse for mediocrity. If every shoeing ain't worth your best shot, you're just going through the motions." Tom Stovall, CJF
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RE:The Fine Governor of the Great State of Rhode Island 22 Nov 2011 02:35 #177

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George Geist wrote:
Never been a scab in my life. Never worked at any race track without a valid Union card

I wonder how you survived for twenty years without the union.


George Geist wrote:
You seem to be stuck in the past, so I'll bite. The UMWA was formed in 1890 why was there not a significant decrease in mine disasters after this date, an average of 2-3 per year remained pretty consistent throughout the graph. Until in the early 1900's, the reason being more advanced technology for better ventilation, not because of unions. Take a look at when the majority of explosions occured, cooler months out of the year none happened in the summer or winter. Do you know why George?

George Geist wrote:
or this
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/04/05/west-virginia-coal-mine-e_n_526151.html
West Virginia has thankfully gone Union again in that formerly scab mine. For some reason it always takes a tragedy

That's tragic George, but sadly it is part of the underground mining industry, methane gas is a very unpredictable substance. MSHA has a lot of power and if the citations were as serious as claimed the mine would have been shut down by them. Perhaps you should look at this especially the 107 category. http://www.msha.gov/programs/assess/citationsandorders.asp

You weren't a scab shoeing without a union card but these guys are scabs for working in a non-union mine making a living. That's pretty sad George the way you talk of the dead.

Peabody decertified there mines around her just before 2000 by closing them, they then acquired Black Beauty and have reopened them as non-union mines. Some of the old guys got excited and got a vote going for the UMWA and it was voted down. I wonder why they didn't want to go back to the good old union days. Probably because they were on strike more than they worked. I now one guy when he first hired on was on strike for the first nine months he worked because of some mine in West Virginia. They really stuck it to the man didn't they.

I wonder why the NBA players are decertifying as well.

George Geist wrote:
There's always a Union rep in a Union shop. Can't say as I blame them for keeping away from you though.

No Sir there is not always a rep on the job, I have been the only person on a job before, maybe they were hiding behind a tree and I didn't see them.


George Geist wrote:
Had I been one of them I'd have done my best to get rid of you.

Good luck, my credentials and qualifications are pretty high.

George Geist wrote:
Again good on you for that. Hope a better guy moves up the seniority ladder.

Actually our local has no senority, it was removed by the president several years ago. You are called out in the order that your name is on the board by layoff date. Also based on qualifications.


George Geist wrote:
You didn't mention what it is you claim to have held a membership in. IUOE? UMW? Teamsters? Which was it?
George

Maybe you should read better. I am an Operator, would you like there number so you can call in on me.
Justin Decker

"As I see it, good enough is never good enough, it's just an excuse for mediocrity. If every shoeing ain't worth your best shot, you're just going through the motions." Tom Stovall, CJF
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RE:The Fine Governor of the Great State of Rhode Island 24 Nov 2011 17:11 #178

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Tom Stovall, CJF wrote:
Doubtless, as a dyed-in-the-wool, true-blue, union sympathizer, you left your tired horses tied to your trailer rather than break union rules. Since we were just a bunch of ignorant Texan and Okie rodeo hands, we figured union rules were for union members, so we moved the barrier after being told it was in clear violation of union rules.
Texans and Okies together in the same place? IME that's what would have led to any fights:p:D No, we had no problem there as we knew the rules and followed them. Everything was clearly laid out before anybody got there. Stuff we had discussions about was arena set up and who was allowed to move stuff around, spread dirt etc. After discussion it was worked out amicably.
When we were warned about the dire consequences of our action, I recall that one of us may have mentioned that if any union member didn't like our moving the barrier could put it in a place that the sun don't shine.
Very eloquent of him. Were you guys invited back?
George
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www.horseshoersforum.invisionzone.com
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RE:The Fine Governor of the Great State of Rhode Island 24 Nov 2011 17:14 #179

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Bill Adams wrote:
This just in:
As reported today by Amy Goodman, Lincoln Chafee (remember him? He's the guy this thread is about) cut public service pensions in Rhode Island.
No report if benefits for illegal aliens will be cut there.
Interesting development Bill. That's been a third rail issue up there for a while now. Wonder if they'll overturn it like happened in a few other states? I'll keep an eye on it.
George
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RE:The Fine Governor of the Great State of Rhode Island 25 Nov 2011 01:41 #180

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George Geist in gray

Texans and Okies together in the same place? IME that's what would have led to any fights:p:D

Not so! A more peace loving bunch has never since been assembled.

No, we had no problem there as we knew the rules and followed them.


Not being union fellows, we simply wanted to get the job done, we didn't give a damn about union rules.

Everything was clearly laid out before anybody got there. Stuff we had discussions about was arena set up and who was allowed to move stuff around, spread dirt etc.

"Allowed?" The barrier was in our way, we moved it. Problem solved.

After discussion it was worked out amicably.

We weren't mad at nobody, we just thought the union's getting it's collective teat caught in the wringer because we moved a barrier was kinda silly.

Very eloquent of him. Were you guys invited back?

George, the IRA rodeo ran ten days and, at the time, quite a few shows had been cancelled due to the race riots; in fact, much of the area around Woodward Ave and 8-Mile Road (where the State Fair Coliseum was) had been burned out - but rodeo is colorblind, it went on as advertised, and was sold out and SRO for all ten perfs!

So, when it all shook out, I figure all them union coliseum hands was mighty glad to see us cowboys because they hadn't been working in a quite a while. :)

Happy Thanksgiving!
Tom Stovall, CJF
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