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TOPIC: The Fine Governor of the Great State of Rhode Island

RE:The Fine Governor of the Great State of Rhode Island 19 Nov 2011 10:54 #151

  • DeniseMc
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Wrong. All your dues are 100% tax deductible. Unless you're a total m o r o n you get it all back at the end of the year thus your membership is free.

Dues are deducted from taxable income if you itemize. When figuring out how much tax is owed each year on the amount you make, the amount of your dues are subtracted from the gross. One does not get back the money they pay for dues, they just don't pay tax on it, and then, only if they itemize. It works like the 50 cent per mile allowance. I deduct roughly $20,000 per year off my income. I do not get to deduct $20,000 off my taxes. http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p529.pdf
Denise
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RE:The Fine Governor of the Great State of Rhode Island 19 Nov 2011 11:35 #152

  • DeniseMc
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Public sector workers have absolutely ZERO incentive to do good, propper and/or efficent work. They get paid regardless, and the worse they do the more money that is thrown their way.

You are painting with a pretty broad brush there. I know many public employees (union members) who take pride in themselves and the jobs they do. Bill wrote this in another thread:
A motivated person in any craft critiques their own work continually. I can't speak for John, but I doubt he gets up every day and thinks to himself that he better do a good job because his Irish Guild requires it. I tend to think that he would be as good as he is if there were no regulation at all.
I know many, many folks whose work ethic and pride in themselveves and the job they do would make this statement applicable to them.
Denise
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RE:The Fine Governor of the Great State of Rhode Island 19 Nov 2011 13:45 #153

  • Bill Adams
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Denise,
Since you're dragging me back into it, I'll say this about unionized public workers.
My dad was an engineer for the California Hy. Dept. and for the most part , the Public Utilities Commission. He tells the stories of getting tasks completed and being told to take a couple of days to go over it because he got it done too fast, and grevences filed by employees for the silliest reasons. Also the years it would take to fire the incompetent. He still dose consultant work in his field at age 81.
Another aspect of large unions is how they are able to take
government money through contracts, stimulus, bailouts and return that money to political parties and individuals. A better laundry system than the Mob. Oh, speaking of the Mob and Unions..................

A rightous man regardeth the life of his beast. Proverbs 12:10
I don't give a damn for a man who can only spell a word one way. Mark Twain
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RE:The Fine Governor of the Great State of Rhode Island 19 Nov 2011 14:01 #154

  • brian robertson
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All these noted lazy non productive union workers make for good story telling. But the very reason that it makes for a good story is because they are the exception not the rule. Thse lazy S O Bs are notable because they are such a small minority. We all seem to need to be able to b i t c h about some one or something so we can feel better about ourselves.
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RE:The Fine Governor of the Great State of Rhode Island 19 Nov 2011 14:28 #155

  • George Geist
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Bill Adams wrote:
Another aspect of large unions is how they are able to take
government money through contracts, stimulus, bailouts and return that money to political parties and individuals.
Can you elaborate on this a little further?
Stuff I post about CEO pay is what has now been made public in accordance with the Dodd-Frank Act. Corporate America is having a collective cow over this and are at present working around the clock for the repeal of this good law.http://www.aflcio.org/corporatewatch/paywatch/paydisparityratio.cfm
To a large degree this is what is fueling the Occupy Wall Street movements going on across the country. Only wish I could be there:):cool:

brian robertson wrote:
All these noted lazy non productive union workers make for good story telling. But the very reason that it makes for a good story is because they are the exception not the rule. Thse lazy S O Bs are notable because they are such a small minority. We all seem to need to be able to b i t c h about some one or something so we can feel better about ourselves.
True Brian. Agree totally.

George
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RE:The Fine Governor of the Great State of Rhode Island 19 Nov 2011 15:00 #156

  • Rick Burten
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SlowShoe wrote:
My x used to work for the highway department. She was miserable. They had 3 people for almost every job.
Here in Illinois, a standing joke is:
Q: What is orange, has six legs and doesn't work?
A: A State highway crew. :rolleyes: :o :D
Rick Burten PF

In the immortal words of Ron White: "But let me tell you something, folks: You can't fix S-tupid. There's not a pill you can take; there's not a class you can go to. S-tupid is forever."
."


Je pense donc je suis
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RE:The Fine Governor of the Great State of Rhode Island 19 Nov 2011 15:05 #157

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George Geist wrote:
Wrong. All your dues are 100% tax deductible. Unless you're a total m o r o n you get it all back at the end of the year thus your membership is free.
Wrong. You may get a 'paper' deduction but you don't get the money back. Its gone. But you are correct in one respect. Forced union membership require you to be a total m o r o n.
Just as I can tell that the last thing in the world you are or ever will be is a Union man.
Speaking only for myself, all I can say is, if there is a God then thank God for that.
Rick Burten PF

In the immortal words of Ron White: "But let me tell you something, folks: You can't fix S-tupid. There's not a pill you can take; there's not a class you can go to. S-tupid is forever."
."


Je pense donc je suis
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RE:The Fine Governor of the Great State of Rhode Island 20 Nov 2011 05:09 #158

  • Bill Adams
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George,
State and Federal unions get their money from the dues of the members who get their pay from the very generous contracts given by the politicians. Then millions of dollars of those dues are returned to the political party (usually Democrats) and politicians, and the members work and vote for that party, who then owes the unions and pays back with high pay contracts. Don't have the figures here but the average government employee pay is far above the average private sector wage.
This is a better laundry system than the pizzerias in the Italian neighborhood I grew up in.

A rightous man regardeth the life of his beast. Proverbs 12:10
I don't give a damn for a man who can only spell a word one way. Mark Twain
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RE:The Fine Governor of the Great State of Rhode Island 20 Nov 2011 16:13 #159

  • George Geist
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Bill Adams wrote:
George,
State and Federal unions get their money from the dues of the members who get their pay from the very generous contracts given by the politicians.
They earn their money as wages for work performed.
Then millions of dollars of those dues are returned to the political party (usually Democrats) and politicians,
Want to keep score and compare how much money is contributed to political campaigns by them as opposed to from corporations, banks, insurance companies etc? Political involvement gives them a fighting chance.
and the members work and vote for that party,
Members vote for whoever they want to or nobody at all if they prefer. In America we shut the curtain in the booth.
who then owes the unions and pays back with high pay contracts.
As I see it, they don't have a whole lot to show for such loyalty.
Don't have the figures here but the average government employee pay is far above the average private sector wage.
False. Job security and benefits, retirements etc. Yes. Pay, no. Private sector pay is usually better for the temporary jobs they provide.
This is a better laundry system than the pizzerias in the Italian neighborhood I grew up in.
Lol! I didn't know you hailed from Jersey:D
George
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RE:The Fine Governor of the Great State of Rhode Island 20 Nov 2011 16:49 #160

  • Bill Adams
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George Geist wrote:
In America we shut the curtain in the booth.
Not for perspective union members under that law you mentioned earlier. Open ballots or some such.
Lol! I didn't know you hailed from Jersey:D
George
San Francisco. Same "Family" businesses, better weather.

A rightous man regardeth the life of his beast. Proverbs 12:10
I don't give a damn for a man who can only spell a word one way. Mark Twain
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RE:The Fine Governor of the Great State of Rhode Island 21 Nov 2011 10:24 #161

  • DeniseMc
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Then millions of dollars of those dues are returned to the political party (usually Democrats) and politicians,
Want to keep score and compare how much money is contributed to political campaigns by them as opposed to from corporations, banks, insurance companies etc? Political involvement gives them a fighting chance.

From the FEC Guidelines: http://www.fec.gov/pages/brochures/fecfeca.shtml
"Although corporations and labor organizations may not make contributions or expenditures in connection with federal elections, they may establish PACs. Corporate and labor PACs raise voluntary contributions from a restricted class of individuals and use those funds to support federal candidates and political committees.


Prohibited Contributions and Expenditures
The FECA places prohibitions on contributions and expenditures by certain individuals and organizations. The following are prohibited from making contributions or expenditures to influence federal elections:

Corporations;
Labor organizations;
Federal government contractors; and
Foreign nationals.

Furthermore, with respect to federal elections:

No one may make a contribution in another person's name.
No one may make a contribution in cash of more than $100.
In addition to the above prohibitions on contributions and expenditures in federal election campaigns, the FECA also prohibits foreign nationals, national banks and other federally chartered corporations from making contributions or expenditures in connection with state and local elections.

You may be interested in a book one of my clients wrote about campaign finance regulation:
Bradley A. Smith (born 1958) is a professor at Capital University Law School,[1] who was Commissioner, Vice Chairman and Chairman of the Federal Election Commission (FEC) between 2000 and 2005 and is best known for his writing and activities opposing campaign finance regulation. Michigan native, Smith received a B.A. from Kalamazoo College and a J.D. from Harvard Law School in 1990. After briefly practicing law with the firm of Vorys, Sater, Seymour and Pease, Smith joined the faculty at Capital University Law School in Columbus, Ohio in the fall of 1993. Smith's breakthrough came in 1996, when the Yale Law Journal published his article, "Faulty Assumptions and Undemocratic Consequences of Campaign Finance Reform."

In "Faulty Assumptions", Smith laid out a case against campaign finance regulation, arguing that efforts to regulate money in politics had been based on a series of incorrect beliefs about the effects of money in politics, and that as a result not only had "reform" failed to accomplish its objectives, it had made many of the problems worse. "Faulty Assumptions" contains no original research and little that is new in terms of Constitutional theory. Nevertheless, the article can be considered one of the most influential articles published on campaign finance in the last quarter of the twentieth century.

Smith's work on campaign finance culminated in a book, Unfree Speech: The Folly of Campaign Finance Reform published by the Princeton University Press in 2001. Unfree Speech consists largely of updated and reworked versions of Smith's prior law review articles, along with some new material. By the time Unfree Speech was published, both Smith and his campaign finance scholarship had become something of a Rorschach test for attitudes about campaign finance. The book met with near universal praise among opponents of regulation, such as columnist George Will, who called it "the Year's most important book on governance," and condemnation from supporters of regulation, who lambasted it, in one reviewer's words, as "facile and boggling
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RE:The Fine Governor of the Great State of Rhode Island 21 Nov 2011 13:56 #162

  • George Geist
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Is interesting and very nice Denise.

The so-called campaign finance reform at the federal level pushed so hard by John McCain was also know as the "muzzle the NRA" law and served mainly to minimize free speech.

OTOH here is a most excellent book recommendation for anybody who would like to know how the machinations of politics really works:
http://www.amazon.com/Whats-Me-Joseph-Stedino/dp/0060179732/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1321883266&sr=1-1

This one is a very good one too:
http://www.amazon.com/Brothers-Bulger-Terrorized-Corrupted-Quarter/dp/0446618888/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1321883738&sr=1-1

Enjoy:)
George
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RE:The Fine Governor of the Great State of Rhode Island 21 Nov 2011 14:31 #163

  • cuttinshoer
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George Geist wrote:
True, but have done other things from time to time as well.

So how did you receive the proper training to become a skilled worker to belong to a real union if it was only time to time.



George Geist wrote:
Wrong. All your dues are 100% tax deductible. Unless you're a total m o r o n you get it all back at the end of the year thus your membership is free.

Unions are kinda like the BUA there pretty good at telling you what you want to hear and how the benefit of being a member are far superior to those who are not members. This a classic example "you get all that money back at the end of the year" anyone who beleives this and is willing to tell it to others is the m o r o n. As Denise pointed out you don't get the money back you just don't pay federal taxes on a portion of it.

Also if you care to read thru the Tax code you can only deduct a portion of the dues because 2% of your adjusted gross income muct be subtracted from your deduction. If you were to make enough money you wouldn't be able to deduct any of the union dues because they would be cancelled out.

George Geist wrote:
Just as I can tell that the last thing in the world you are or ever will be is a Union man. You're just a cardholder:rolleyes:

How long did it take you to figure that out!!!:rolleyes::rolleyes: Why in the h e l l would I want to be a Union man when I can do better elsewhere.

Some people just need someone to lead them and make decisions for them, I am not on of those people.


George Geist wrote:
And who's fault was that?
George

Employers want employees who are trained to do multiple jobs. Example most companies around her are not signatory with teamsters because all they can do is drive a truck. If they have operators in that truck and it breaks down they don't have to send the guy home, with him and the company losing money. They can put him in another peice of equipment and both get to earn a living that day.

If you had two guys working for you one could perform every aspect of the job, the other could only finish feet because that is all he was allowed to do by the Union which one would be more profitable to keep around when things get slow.
Justin Decker

"As I see it, good enough is never good enough, it's just an excuse for mediocrity. If every shoeing ain't worth your best shot, you're just going through the motions." Tom Stovall, CJF
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RE:The Fine Governor of the Great State of Rhode Island 21 Nov 2011 14:49 #164

  • George Geist
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cuttinshoer wrote:
So how did you receive the proper training to become a skilled worker to belong to a real union if it was only time to time.
I joined the horse shoers according to the constitution and bylaws of that great Union. Had been in the trade for over 20 years before I joined.
Unions are kinda like the BUA there pretty good at telling you what you want to hear and how the benefit of being a member are far superior to those who are not members. This a classic example "you get all that money back at the end of the year" anyone who beleives this and is willing to tell it to others is the m o r o n. As Denise pointed out you don't get the money back you just don't pay federal taxes on a portion of it.

Also if you care to read thru the Tax code you can only deduct a portion of the dues because 2% of your adjusted gross income muct be subtracted from your deduction. If you were to make enough money you wouldn't be able to deduct any of the union dues because they would be cancelled out.
Been doing it for years, works for me.
How long did it take you to figure that out!!!:rolleyes::rolleyes: Why in the h e l l would I want to be a Union man when I can do better elsewhere.
Good question. You occupy a job that more than a few guys would give their left nut for and you don't appreciate it. By all means quit. Is easy to see why your steward would like nothing better than to be rid of you too.
Employers want employees who are trained to do multiple jobs. Example most companies around her are not signatory with teamsters because all they can do is drive a truck. If they have operators in that truck and it breaks down they don't have to send the guy home, with him and the company losing money. They can put him in another peice of equipment and both get to earn a living that day.
It's called strict interpretation of job description. Is another good thing. In that case it would force company to keep trucks maintained and safe. BTW in most Teamster contracts when a guy isn't driving he's also a dockman.
If you had two guys working for you one could perform every aspect of the job, the other could only finish feet because that is all he was allowed to do by the Union which one would be more profitable to keep around when things get slow.
Depends, Isn't that what most apprentices do anyway? Most definitely would never have guys work for me that weren't Union though.
George
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RE:The Fine Governor of the Great State of Rhode Island 21 Nov 2011 15:04 #165

  • SlowShoe
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George many recent studies site that fed and state workers make much more than they are worth when compared to private sector.

here its at least one
http://www.usatoday.com/money/economy/income/2010-08-10-1Afedpay10_ST_N.htm



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