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TOPIC: BUA Madness

RE:BUA Madness 08 Aug 2011 10:58 #76

  • DeniseMc
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Experts still disagree about how circulation occurs.

And I think until that mystery is solved or fully understood it will leave the topic wide open for discussions that go round and round...
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RE:BUA Madness 08 Aug 2011 11:16 #77

  • tbloomer
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DeniseMc wrote:
. . . DuraSole product that has label claims of being "extremely effective in the relief of sole soreness" and "used extensively for transitioning horses from shod to barefoot" (yes, he really says that).:D
Denise
And it has a money back guarantee. :cool:
Tom Bloomer
http://blackburnforge.com
302-222-6404


Here's the deal. I'm trying to keep it simple.
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RE:BUA Madness 08 Aug 2011 11:53 #78

  • vthorseshoe
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Denise you asked about a quote "shoe's being the lesser of two evils"

When you suggest boots or applying an acrylic to the soles then it falls under the same statement above.

Obviously horses were born barefoot and went bare foot until man started to use them under cart or saddle.

This caused the foot to wear down more rapidly due to the extra weight, increased use, new man made roads they were now traveling on. For example the romans built roads all over europe and the horses were now traveling longer distances in shorter times and carrying increased weights or pulling various transport vehicles.
The romans realized they needed to protect the hooves in order to keep the animals in use so we are finding some of the earliest shoe's to be Roman creations.

Today we use shoe's to protect the hoof during injury and it acts to protect it during healing or to help realign a malformed digit
or help position a foot or leg to help relieve stress such as a blown ligament etc...

The fact that we now have pavement means we have more abrasives that the foot is moving on and wears the walls down quickly and still needs protecting to keep from becoming sore.

Now weather you protect it with acrylics or boots it is still the same principle, just a different choice of materials other than steel.
the lesser of two evils.


my 2 cents worth ;)
"you may not like what I say" !
-but-
"you'll never have any doubts where I stand
quote Cindy Matthews 1948-2006


I thought my life had come to a close with Cindy's passing, but there is life after death Thankyou Sharon !

Bruce Matthews
Southeast...
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RE:BUA Madness 08 Aug 2011 12:43 #79

vthorseshoe wrote:
When you suggest boots or applying an acrylic to the soles then it falls under the same statement above.
Obviously horses were born barefoot and went bare foot until man started to use them under cart or saddle.

The barefooters seem to want to protect most feet with boots, or vettec products or equicast or epona shoes glued on. To me it seems that they are not exactly pro-barefoot. Rather they seem to be anti-nail oriented as most feet in their care end up wearing shoes that are not nailed on.

Perhaps at an early age the "barefooters" crawled over a thumbtack or a nail leading to the irrational fear of iron and steel objects. I prefer to refer to those suffering from this malady as Ferrophobic as it better describes their position than "barefooters"
George Spear
CNBBT, CNBF, CLS


".....and I said to the horse: Trust no man in whose eyes you do not see yourself reflected as an equal."
Don Vincenzo Giobbe
CA. 1700

"What people do not appreciate is that every time a horse submits to...
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RE:BUA Madness 08 Aug 2011 12:58 #80

  • DeniseMc
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Denise you asked about a quote "shoe's being the lesser of two evils"

Hi Bruce,
Actually, it was "shoes are a necessary evil".
And I did not say to not shoe the horse; I said it was one choice one could make. I do not promote myself as a "farrier"; never have. If the owner chooses shoes as protection they just need to call someone else-I do provide phone numbers of folks to call. I actually did contemplate learning to shoe for a couple of horses, but for one client in particular. She uses her horses, more than most folks. She chooses to get 2 or 3 of them shod for summer/fall riding. The farrier she was using was having to tranq one of the horses for the shoeing, every shoeing (horse is just fine for trimming). Long story short, the horse blew through the tranq the last time the farrier was out to shoe so he didn't get it done. Client gets another farrier out recommended to her by friends. The new farrier didn't tranq, and took 45 min, hour maybe, to get the horse to give and got him shod. New farrier only charged $45 for trim, shoe, training. Old farrier was charging $90 (or something close to that price range), but had announced a price increase to $115. Client is not planning on calling old farrier back. I joked with client that heck, at that $45 price she could get all her horses trimmed and shod on top of that for what she pays me for trimming alone. She wasn't interested in dropping me as her trimmer (so she says, time will tell:rolleyes:). I think what I am getting at, with competitive prices like that, and in this economy, I really don't think it would be a good ROI for me to learn to shoe, and if a horse needs protection I can still offer alternative forms to metal shoes. If I were lots younger and a whole career ahead of me, then yes, I would make the investment
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RE:BUA Madness 08 Aug 2011 13:05 #81

  • Travis Reed
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George I think its more of a can't put shoe on than anything ...I sure some say they could or even have but its a big diff doing it day in and day out..then all the supplys ....also I know they is some owners that would pay 150 to have a horse trimmed and just want what they think is best for the horse but I bet you would find 90percent of the folks going shoeless its more about the money and I would go as far as saying of that 90 percent that was in shoes and had a bad deal with a farrier 80 pecent of them would not pay the higher price for a higher end farrier that trys to stay on top of CE and do a jam up job and runs a good business...so they got billy joe from down the road...I'm sure not the case for all but that is deff what I have ran into...
Travis Reed.....


www.sporthorsefarrier.com to direct link..
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RE:BUA Madness 08 Aug 2011 13:11 #82

  • Mike Ferrara
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DeniseMc wrote:
Hi Bruce,
Actually, it was "shoes are a necessary evil".
And I did not say to not shoe the horse; I said it was one choice one could make. I do not promote myself as a "farrier"; never have. If the owner chooses shoes as protection they just need to call someone else-I do provide phone numbers of folks to call. I actually did contemplate learning to shoe for a couple of horses, but for one client in particular. She uses her horses, more than most folks. She chooses to get 2 or 3 of them shod for summer/fall riding. The farrier she was using was having to tranq one of the horses for the shoeing, every shoeing (horse is just fine for trimming). Long story short, the horse blew through the tranq the last time the farrier was out to shoe so he didn't get it done. Client gets another farrier out recommended to her by friends. The new farrier didn't tranq, and took 45 min, hour maybe, to get the horse to give and got him shod. New farrier only charged $45 for trim, shoe, training. Old farrier was charging $90 (or something close to that price range), but had announced a price increase to $115. Client is not planning on calling old farrier back. I joked with client that heck, at that $45 price she could get all her horses trimmed and shod on top of that for what she pays me for trimming alone. She wasn't interested in dropping me as her trimmer (so she says, time will tell:rolleyes:). I think what I am getting at, with competitive prices like that, and in this economy, I really don't think it would be a good ROI for me to learn to shoe, and if a horse needs protection I can still offer alternative forms to metal shoes. If I were lots younger and a whole career ahead of me, then yes, I would make the investment

For the most part (there are exceptions) there's not much money in shoeing or trimming back yard pets. You have to go where the money is. You need clients who spend a lot of money on their horses. A lot of people have horses but don't spend much money on them.
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RE:BUA Madness 08 Aug 2011 13:15 #83

  • Mike Ferrara
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Travis Reed wrote:
George I think its more of a can't put shoe on than anything ...I sure some say they could or even have but its a big diff doing it day in and day out..then all the supplys ....also I know they is some owners that would pay 150 to have a horse trimmed and just want what they think is best for the horse but I bet you would find 90percent of the folks going shoeless its more about the money and I would go as far as saying of that 90 percent that was in shoes and had a bad deal with a farrier 80 pecent of them would not pay the higher price for a higher end farrier that trys to stay on top of CE and do a jam up job and runs a good business...so they got billy joe from down the road...I'm sure not the case for all but that is deff what I have ran into...

I see both. I see horses left barefoot because shoes cost money. But I also see people who spend more on their horses board than I spend on my home mortgage and use boots because they buy into the BUA nonsense.

The other thing I see out in the country is horses being shod by guys who only charge $45 to shoe and their work is apparently "good enough" for lots of folks.
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RE:BUA Madness 08 Aug 2011 13:21 #84

  • reillyshoe
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DeniseMc wrote:
I do not promote myself as a "farrier"; never have.


That is not entirely true, as you are posting in the farrier only section on the site. While I appreciate your posts, I think that you can agree that this would identify you as a farrier to people reading the site.
P
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RE:BUA Madness 08 Aug 2011 13:25 #85

  • Travis Reed
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Dennis if you do not promote as a farrier and never have then why are you posting in the farrier forums and giveing advice....or is this a better question for the owners of the site..... rules don't apply to you I quess...I don't know why Ann tree has to stay in her place when you and her have the same exact views..and I'm sure its none of business of WHY...but it kinda looses the whole point of the site and it turns into what every site out there has and is like..make the place not so special..when horse owners come ask questions the know without doubt its a farrier chatting with them..but as long as the hoofters keep creepin in its not much diff than the oth er 900 sites out there..
Travis Reed.....


www.sporthorsefarrier.com to direct link..
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RE:BUA Madness 08 Aug 2011 13:40 #86

  • DeniseMc
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That is not entirely true, as you are posting in the farrier only section on the site. While I appreciate your posts, I think that you can agree that this would identify you as a farrier to people reading the site.

And Baron has stated many times there are a few non-farriers who are allowed to post in this section of the site. I happen to be one of the "blessed", for whatever reason (I guess only Baron knows the reason, which he has never shared). Most folks who read here know I do not shoe; and 10 times out of 10 someone will whine when I do post here so the non-shoer status is always known. I do enjoy the debates and discussions about biomechanics and form, function in general; don't know if I'll be allowed to continue joining the discussions with the new ownership here, but so far have not been banned. And Thank-you for appreciating my posts; not everyone shares your sentiment (eta-that would probably be an understatement).
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RE:BUA Madness 08 Aug 2011 13:51 #87

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Your allowance notwithstanding, your decision to post in this section identifies (promotes) you as a farrier to most readers.
P
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RE:BUA Madness 08 Aug 2011 14:08 #88

  • Travis Reed
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So would it be out of line for us to ask of why she gets a pass when others don't.... when its clear where she stands...she give advise to owners in the farriers sec ..granted its on trimming things but I have seen her sudgest trimming ideas when a shoe would be applied and she does not know what needs done to a trim before shoe is to go on..I have not the time to go find it or I would...is she a family friend ..friend of a friend ..does she get a bush bond or is it because she went to a clinic with some farriers...
Travis Reed.....


www.sporthorsefarrier.com to direct link..
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RE:BUA Madness 08 Aug 2011 16:13 #89

Dances with Hooves wrote:
I prefer to refer to those suffering from this malady as Ferrophobic as it better describes their position than "barefooters"

- Man, I am SO tempted to toss that into the book.

.
MILLWATER'S FARRIERY
The Illustrated Dictionary of Horseshoeing and Hoofcare.
http://www.MillwaterPublishing.com
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RE:BUA Madness 08 Aug 2011 16:58 #90

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Western Hill Forge wrote:
Apparently there are others who look at it the same way :):

4075 Iron Works Parkway • Lexington, KY 40511
Phone: 859-233-0147 • Fax: 859-233-1968

Hoof Abscesses


By Brian W. Fitzgerald, DVM

Lameness: General
- Oct 29th, 09

Hoof Abscesses Explained

Hoof abscesses occur when bacteria get trapped between the sensitive laminae (the tissue layer that bonds the hoof capsule to the coffin bone) and the hoof wall or sole. The bacteria create exudate (pus), which builds up and creates pressure behind the hoof wall or sole. This pressure can become extremely painful.
Actually, its the BODY that creates the pus; not the bacteria. Pus is comprised of white blood cells to fight off infection. The greater the infection the greater the abscess. They (the pus cells) are sent to the infection by a process known as chemotaxis, usually triggered by cytokines released from macrophages that sense invading organisms.

Sorry, read that little ditty about the pus being created by the bacteria and couldn't let it go by because its simply incorrect.

(PS -- I was also given a 'pass' to post in the forums even though I am not a farrier and never have claimed to be one. That being said, I am not a BUA, either.)
:) -- Gwen Santagate
“Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.” -- Albert Einstein
thepenzancehorse.com
barefoottrim.com
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