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TOPIC: BUA Madness

BUA Madness 04 Aug 2011 05:30 #1

  • Mark_Gough
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From the "Rainer Equine Hoof Recovery Site", I present to you this little bit of barefoot wisdom.

Causes of Hoof Abscesses
Abscessing is a common occurrence in the hoof transitioning from shod (and/or neglected) to barefoot. Abscesses are considered as part of the detoxification process of an unhealthy hoof to a healthy hoof, not because the abscesses develop after the hoof begins the transitioning process, but because the abscesses had been festering in the hoof and deshoeing the hoof, or the implementation of correct trimming allowed the abscesses to finally migrate to soft tissue where it can rupture.

The above was penned by an AANHCP and AHA "certified" practitioner.

I wonder if such practitioners may ever cease to be simply political fodder and instead, represent candidates more appropriately redressed for consumer fraud and animal abuse. I suppose not in my time.

Cheers,
Mark
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RE:BUA Madness 04 Aug 2011 06:30 #2

  • Peters Shoeing
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That is hilarious. That beats the whole "this is an adjustment, your horse will be sore for weeks to months while transitioning".

A couple days ago, I think I saw a barefoot trimmer online saying she's a CJF, but she only does barefoot natural trimming.
Alan Peters
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RE:BUA Madness 04 Aug 2011 09:13 #3

  • hurleycane
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Makes me sick to hear "Oh, it was just an abscess." But unfortunately, it is not only the new age, natural, and BUA-haha's that say this. Some been-there-done-that really-good horsemen, farriers and vets say it, too. Abscess is a very serious thing in a foot, specially one that is treated without determining the cause.

Mark - why do you ****** yourself reading these sites? You trying to drum up some legislation? Some credible certification process? :confused:

If so, I am 100% behind you! :)
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RE:BUA Madness 04 Aug 2011 12:52 #4

hurleycane wrote:
Makes me sick to hear "Oh, it was just an abscess." But unfortunately, it is not only the new age, natural, and BUA-haha's that say this. Some been-there-done-that really-good horsemen, farriers and vets say it, too. Abscess is a very serious thing in a foot, specially one that is treated without determining the cause.

Mark - why do you ****** yourself reading these sites? You trying to drum up some legislation? Some credible certification process? :confused:

If so, I am 100% behind you! :)

Well I´m guilty of being glad when it´s "just an abscess" if a horse is 3 legged lame. when drained and treated the horse might be up and running on the same day. same can´t be said if there´s a fractured PIII or something that has samekinds of symptoms...
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RE:BUA Madness 04 Aug 2011 14:37 #5

  • Jack Evers
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Here's another from a trimmer named Dawn Willoughby: She did request that the readers disseminate her information, so here it is. Pulling shoes cures rainrot, hives and bug bites. Ignore the fact that the horse was also in a new environment with a new owner (Dawn herself) and new husbandry. Shoes and circulation was the problem.


"Former steeplechaser, Big Band Show, "Banjo", was often described as a hot house flower. But after I pulled his shoes, the debilitating episodes of rain rot and hives and bug bites swelling to the size of my hand all vanished. He was my previous horse and the first I transitioned to bare feet. This proves even a newbie can make a huge difference!"

No one can argue with success. Over time your horse's hooves will look fantastic. And most importantly, with correct blood flow, your horse will become healthier. There may be a time when most of the shod horses in your barn are covered with rain rot, but you, my friend, will be out on the trail. Commiserate with your friends who can't ride; then plant a seed for bare feet, boots and blood flow!"
Jack Evers CJF AFA#426

The best things about the good old days -- I wasn't good and I wasn't old.

The older I get, the more horses I shoe, the fewer things that I can absolutely, positively fix.
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RE:BUA Madness 04 Aug 2011 15:02 #6

  • Mark_Gough
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hurleycane wrote:
Mark - why do you ****** yourself reading these sites? You trying to drum up some legislation? Some credible certification process? :confused:

If so, I am 100% behind you! :)

We already have credible certification in this country but it's not from the organizations mentioned in my first post.

I don't read such nonsense to inflict self-******. In this case I was asked to read a horse owners post and share my opinion.

The information publicly spewed from the "Hoof Recovery" website is disturbing and should be challenged as a service to the horse owning public. Given the authors association with two of the most prominent BUA organizations it sheds light on the practices and teachings of those groups.

In example and from an article on her website titled "My Advice for the New Trimmer"....
I was introduced to her former horse’s new owner and the horse had shoes on. That owner smiled in my face and bragged about how he fixed his horse so its feet never hurt and he could ride him anytime he wanted.
My customer and I walked away and under my breath I muttered, continuing his line of thought, “Screw the horse, it’s about me getting to ride, right!”

Her reaction is one only a PETA member could love. Imagine... someone actually wants to ride their horse! What an abusive owner! :rolleyes:
I often hear that the walls of hooves left unshod will wear faster than the hoof can grow it. That's true when the hoof is trimmed incorrectly which most are, but not true if the hoof is correctly trimmed and growing at a healthy angle with healthy connective tissue (laminae).

There ya go. The notion that horses ever present wear that exceeds growth is a myth.

And the "real" purpose of the Nolan Hoof Plate? Well... easily explained.
And the band does nothing except mask the pain caused by the condition the hooves are in. Why not just fix the hoof with the trim? I never can get that logic. Wreck the hooves and use "this product" to mask the pain so you can ride the horse which will continue causing damage to the hooves until the horse can't even support its own weight, then put it down. Common Scenario.

Shoeing kills horses and the Nolan Hoof Plate serves only to mask the pain until the horse has to be put down.

Apparently, the same holds true for the NB shoeing protocol.
The same can be said for some shoeing systems-such as NBS. I've heard that even the developer of that system wished he'd had never shared it because it's so unnatural for the horse.

Apparently this is a secret that Gene is keeping to himself.

And then....
Apply for a membership with the AHA American Hoof Association so you can be in contact with many other experienced trimmers. As you go, you can work on getting certified by that organization. It’s not a school, it's a screening organization to filter the hacks and only certify the true professionals and list them on their website.

Apparently, the filter doesn't work very well. One of the hacks got through.

And as to the condition of an abscess in the equine hoof...
Take abscesses for instance. I honestly believe I’m one of the few professional trimmers out there who really understands abscesses. I don't believe they are caused by trauma/bruising.

So if trauma/bruising is not a cause of abscessing, what is?.. Well... here's your answer.
WL separation is that is caused by flare. Flare walls cause stretching of the white line which can lead to separation of the white line (dead laminae) and then leaves the hoof vunerable to abscessing either in the wall or the bar. When I trim an abscessed hoof, I see what we have come to term as WLD. But as I said, it's not diseased, it's dead.

Abscesses can cause problems in a hoof for years if the horse is shod and even after it goes barefoot can take years to completely fester out. Not usually, but I have seen that situation and the cause if typically flare.

So... abscesses are caused by flare and horseshoes extend the period of infection by years.

Oh... and lest you've been treating a horse for white line disease... you're wasting your time, because.....
And there is no such thing as white line "disease" or "infection." Those terms imply that there may be a cure. Laminae is either live and healthy or dead and gone and there is no cure for what is no longer viable. So soaking in chemicals in our attempts to cure WLD is probably only going to damage the healthy laminae attachement that is trying to grow to the ground with new hoofwall.

Thinking of pursuing that AFA Therapeutic Endorsement? Apparently it's a waste of energy. All you need is a trim.
Bar abscesses are so often misdiagnosed as navicular, founder, white line disease and a myriad of other hoof disorders which then puts a horse into corrective shoeing or an early grave. So sad. But we are here to fix that!

Is it all nonsense? Of course.

Does the horse owning public know that when wading through this garbage? Apparently not.

Cheers,
Mark
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RE:BUA Madness 04 Aug 2011 16:27 #7

  • irishcas
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Ha Mark:

The old abscesses are a sign of healing mantra. Heaven forbid, it is because the horses are being over trimmed or need 24/7 hoof protection.

Granted that is not ALWAYS the reason, but Strasser started that BS and it has been picked up and carried as a proud flag by many. It would be comical if it weren't for the pain the horses have to go through.
Kim Cassidy
"I still say a church steeple with a lightning rod on top shows a lack of confidence." Doug McLeod
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RE:BUA Madness 04 Aug 2011 17:46 #8

  • Red Amor
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Its a sad state of affairs
I live on an Island state a population of 500,000 with maybe 5 or so percent?? owning horses

the Hoofters down here would now just about out number the Traditionally Trained Farriers
The average owner sadly doesn't have much of a clue about the horse and hoof care and are easily conned by the B/S misinformation these opportunistic buggers spread
the horse suffers the consequences of this trype
Man people /owner get into hooftering for the wrong reasons
Ive see so many times where the Farrier was blamed and often maligned and discredited and custom lost because of for the poor hooves, when in the long run it was the owners who should have had their arse kicked
Their unwillingness to have work done be Farrier on a regular basis or pay for proper or remedial / therapeutic shoeing
to clean up paddocks of debree n fix fencing , or to drain wet n boggie areas
No much easier to listen to n quote the B/S spruked by the hoofters damming the Farriers and making themselves look good to the hoofter
Its a shame the government didn't do more research into this lot before letting them got ahead with teaching the s,h.i.t. at TAFE schools

The rectums down here that did the teaching were either people that tried to be Farriers and couldn't cut it or them that never intended to be but like the wanna be saw the easy money in trimming alone and then teaching other s
This very selfish attitude has cost the horse dearly and will continue to do so for quite some time
Farriers aren't putting on apprentices or training others as much as we used to
We needed the cream in trimming to be able to afford to pay our trainees , n apprentices and be able to afford to send them away to trade school on the mainland of Australia for one week in seven for three years

Otherwise good people / owners jut don't get it the We need them to be fair dinkum , with us their horses AND themselves
I'm not likes by some for many reasons , some fair n just , I admit my faults , and some unfair unjust b/s
BUT I don't b/s my clients / friends about the horse and it hooves and I dont b/s n make S.H'I.T up to cover up my failings
Sad part is that many of these new hoofters realy believe the bible their reading from and their teachers
sadly they havent lived long enough to realise the truth or falsehoods when they see it or not
sadly Farriers are finding it harder
I warned on here and was scoffed at by some , that the plague of parasites was on the wing
then again later saying that it was to late as the plague had landed

The get no help from me anymore
I made that mistake and got bit on the coyte
I try even harder to Do better every job every day
To earn the respect n confidence of my employer and earn my pay
All I ask is a fair go
if I don't get it I go and of late Ive bee making that decision before their bs starts
Mark Anthony Amor
If we want anymore excrement like that outta you we'll squeese ya head :eek:
Mind how ya go now ;)
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RE:BUA Madness 04 Aug 2011 18:44 #9

  • Ray_Knightley
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96% of shod horses become lame because of the shoes at some point ,is a good one aswell :D

Wonder who shoes the other 4%
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RE:BUA Madness 05 Aug 2011 00:49 #10

  • hurleycane
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Juhani Takanen wrote:
Well I´m guilty of being glad when it´s "just an abscess" if a horse is 3 legged lame. when drained and treated the horse might be up and running on the same day. same can´t be said if there´s a fractured PIII or something that has samekinds of symptoms...

No doubt treating an abscess brings relief. But the point I was making is there is usually an underlying cause that is the real problem. The abscess is but the symptom of the real problem.

As an example, a friend of mine was told her horse "probably just had an abscess" when she walked gingerly on concrete: "Gotta soak and get the abscess up." WHen she called me, I told her pull the grain and call your vet - "pretty darn serious for a sound horse not to want to walk on flat concrete and no such thing as just an abscess."

Next day she called me, "well we are still soaking - got the icthmal wrap now to pull the abscess. And the other foot is sore now from doing all the work for the sore foot. They said it could take several weeks for it to come out - darn abscess..." And I said "please pull the grain and call your vet now. No such thing as "just an abscess." Your horse is in serious trouble now. Please call the vet now."

And you know the rest of the story. Yes - founder.

Sure, there would have eventually been an abscess - but not "just an abscess."
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RE:BUA Madness 05 Aug 2011 00:57 #11

  • Travis Reed
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Are you tryin to say it turned into founder...it sounds as if it was that all along and they just did not know what to do...they should not have been calling you they should have called the vet 1st...I'm not sure I understand....much like the above a lot of times I'm pretty happy with a blow out...but also I try not to cross the line of playing vet for the very reason of ur example..
Travis Reed.....


www.sporthorsefarrier.com to direct link..
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RE:BUA Madness 05 Aug 2011 01:36 #12

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Mark_Gough wrote:

Does the horse owning public know that when wading through this garbage? Apparently not.Cheers,
Mark

And it is gonna be a long long battle of words and truth for you Mark. Cause there are many folks popping up with many "certification" processes for their many styles of "hoofery." And you and I both know a plaque on a wall sure makes one sound legit. Specially to us glittery eyed back-yarders.

And I think us back yarders need to take the blame for all this net truth fixing work you are having to do. Cause there are not many bua-haha's working at legit training barns. So it is a good thing there are still enough boarding/training barns still running to keep "real" farriers employed and training new "real" farriers.

We both also know that one by one, eventually, we the naive public will turn to those professionals to straighten these raped feet up.
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RE:BUA Madness 05 Aug 2011 01:42 #13

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Travis Reed wrote:
Are you tryin to say it turned into founder...it sounds as if it was that all along and they just did not know what to do...they should not have been calling you they should have called the vet 1st...I'm not sure I understand....much like the above a lot of times I'm pretty happy with a blow out...but also I try not to cross the line of playing vet for the very reason of ur example..

No - I am saying it was laminitis to begin with. It was wishful thinking on the farrier's part that the unsoundness was "just an abscess."

And darn right they should not be calling me - cause I tell them to call the Vet. But we are friends - so we talk. And I am just an owner. And a good friend.

Horse is better - good farrier and a good Vet took good care of the horse. The owner is every farrier's and vet's dream - pays on time and follows directions - to the letter.
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RE:BUA Madness 05 Aug 2011 04:42 #14

  • Red Amor
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You all might think Me Orrible for saying this but I just want to BASH anyone I hear of saying you should let an abscess run its own natural corse
just crazy sad that line o non thinking yeah :confused:
Mark Anthony Amor
If we want anymore excrement like that outta you we'll squeese ya head :eek:
Mind how ya go now ;)
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RE:BUA Madness 05 Aug 2011 04:48 #15

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Ray_Knightley wrote:
96% of shod horses become lame because of the shoes at some point ,is a good one aswell :D

Wonder who shoes the other 4%

I don't know Ray. I'm probably one of the 96%. I think the other 4% specialize in unicorns.

I'll be shoeing a horse on Saturday that suffered a DDFT tear.

Maybe I should call the ""Rainer Equine Hoof Recovery Site" center and see what she recommends.

You know..., She's triple certified! Says so right on her website! :D

I don't know if that much certification required three days or three full weekends of intensive study. I'll have to ask.

I'll also start looking for clients with unicorns.

Cheers,
Mark
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