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TOPIC: Podiatry Discussion - Can We Accomplish?

RE:Podiatry Discussion - Can We Accomplish? 08 Feb 2011 02:04 #31

  • Travis Reed
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Jay was that half shoe a joint effort or a demand on one or the other part...by the way that was perfect timeing on throwing the pic out there...did you have that saved because you knew it was to good to pass up and fig you would have it to use kinda like a ace in the hole
Travis Reed.....


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RE:Podiatry Discussion - Can We Accomplish? 08 Feb 2011 02:45 #32

  • Jay Mickle
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Travis Reed wrote:
Jay was that half shoe a joint effort or a demand on one or the other part...by the way that was perfect timeing on throwing the pic out there...did you have that saved because you knew it was to good to pass up and fig you would have it to use kinda like a ace in the hole

It was just too memorable. Took a bit of looking but I found it in "Everyday Shoeing" 3+ years ago.
Jay Mickle
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RE:Podiatry Discussion - Can We Accomplish? 08 Feb 2011 03:25 #33

Dr Myers

Did you do a clinic @ Legacy Equine near Tulsa Ok this summer?
Jason RoTramel
RHC Farrier Service

Shut up and get it done!
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RE:Podiatry Discussion - Can We Accomplish? 08 Feb 2011 10:51 #34

  • Mike Ferrara
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mwmyersdvm wrote:
I have far more radiographs than photographs but I should be able to get some posted. The bulk of my "everyday" work contains more hoof pathology than fully 'normal' horses. I do a fair amount of maintenance work on chronic laminitics and some horses with hoof issues that are tricky to maintain. I also like doing show Saddlebreds when I get the opportunity. Those horses will let you know very quickly when something is not just right.

M. W. Myers, D.V.M.

[sarcasm on]...And we all know that the AFA CF or CJF denotes that a farrier has been tested in the above mentioned aspects of farriery. Right? [sarcasm off]

QUOTE=Mark]"While the State of <insert state name> Veterinary Medical Board does not require a specialist certificate or license for a person to engage in the practice of equine farriery, the board does acknowledge and recommend those practitioners who have earned the American Farrier's Association certification as having met the training requirements considered generally necessary to engage in the safe and responsible practice of equine farriery." [/QUOTE]

What would that statement be based on? What training requirements?

Would that be the safe and responsible practice of all farriery or just certain parts? Last I checked the AFA didn't require a testee to demonstrate competence in any of the above mentioned aspects of farriery. A test that consists of shoeing one horse, one way with no measurement of long term results? You're kidding right?

If you want some recognition based on a credential you'd better pin your hopes on something more like a degree that might include dozens or hundreds of practical examinations rather than one based on a single written test and a single practical...ok the CJF actually represents 2 practical exams and 2 written tests.
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RE:Podiatry Discussion - Can We Accomplish? 08 Feb 2011 11:19 #35

  • Mike Ferrara
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To the OP

What problem are we trying to solve here? I don't have any trouble working with vets...except where the vet gives a non-diagnosis (the BS kind) and maybe half of a prescription that may or may not address shoeing and isn't interested in discussing their finding or recommendations with anybody.

This is typical of what I find. A client asked me to call a vet about a horse that had been worked on and shod at the clinic and the vet told me that the horse has "all kinds of issues" and said she didn't know anything about the shoeing. Several minutes of conversation did NOT result in any further clarification. Is "all kinds of issues" some new technical term that I haven't learned yet or something? Well, I have now kept this horse going for several years by shoeing it for "all kinds of issues" with no help at all from the stinking vet.

I think I'd have trouble recalling a time when a vet even contributed to the formulation of a successful shoeing prescription. I think most clients tend to call me first in lameness cases. I recommend consulting the vet to cover all the bases and my butt.

There might be other things going on here but I usually get the impression that the vet doesn't know and just won't admit it.

Maybe what's required here is a way to make sure that vets have some background/knowledge in equine lameness?

Even without certification, I'm pretty handy at applying a pad or a "backward shoe" (the most common vet prescriptions). I don't think I've ever had a vet perscribe anything tricky like frog support.
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RE:Podiatry Discussion - Can We Accomplish? 08 Feb 2011 12:29 #36

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mwmyersdvm wrote:
I I do a fair amount of maintenance work on some horses with hoof issues that are tricky to maintain.

M. W. Myers, D.V.M.

Do you get them feet where that bone aint quite right in that there hoof capsule?

I hear they're easy to stick.
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RE:Podiatry Discussion - Can We Accomplish? 08 Feb 2011 13:26 #37

  • Travis Reed
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Dimwmyersdvm wrote:
I have far more radiographs than photographs but I should be able to get some posted. The bulk of my "everyday" work contains more hoof pathology than fully 'normal' horses. I do a fair amount of maintenance work on chronic laminitics and some horses with hoof issues that are tricky to maintain. I also like doing show Saddlebreds when I get the opportunity. Those horses will let you know very quickly when something is not just right.

M. W. Myers, D.V.M.
.

I look forward to seeing some of the work and case work you have going on..I enjoy do a saddlebred from time to time..I don't get to do it like I did at one time but when I did I found it to be a bit diff..horse stalled..trainers pretty much knew just what they wanted..unless ya had a knee knocker or something I found them to be pretty forgiveing..........I look forward to ur work none the less...Doc I know you have ur nitch in ur slice of the pie but I just don't see what ur wanting to do being profitable for the masses of vets most I know do vet stuff that the farriers can't do....just how many laminitics are they to work on??..it seems ur trying to make something harder than it really should be....you being a vet but what more can you offer the horse that farrioers can't anf don't say radiographs and stuff because that a phone call away...it just seems to do what you talk about would cause a vet/farrier to spread his work area to far and wide to even be profitable..................................................................................................................................................................................................................................edit to add that's like the nolan hoof plate there is no need for a medical patt..other than a money issue ..I see a profit as a good thing but the hoof plate imho is nothing that special farriers have been using plates for a long time..I'm not a fan due to screws into the wall..but I have used truss plates and gring down the barbs heat up and burn in then glue on..bingo ya got the same thing for 90cents at the hardware...just seems like things are trying to be made harder than they should...
Travis Reed.....


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RE:Podiatry Discussion - Can We Accomplish? 08 Feb 2011 14:21 #38

  • solidrockshoer
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Mike Ferrara wrote:

There might be other things going on here but I usually get the impression that the vet doesn't know and just won't admit it.

I agree but at the same time I wouldn't expect them to tell a client they know nothing about farriery. A farrier can tell a client we don't know something about veterinary medicine because we're not expected to know. Vets on the other hand are expected to know something about farriery.

It's all just a game. I you want to work with vets, nod your head and agree with them. It's pretty simple but you have to be willing to play ball.
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RE:Podiatry Discussion - Can We Accomplish? 08 Feb 2011 20:16 #39

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reillyshoe wrote:
There are groups such as the NEAEP who take veterinarians and farriers as members. Unfortunately, that particular group's by laws stipulate that the BoD should be comprised of approximately 75% veterinarians. This type of group is not acceptable to me based upon the preferential status afforded to veterinarians.

I took a look at their upcoming symposium and it appears podiatry is only one portion out of quite a few other topics. It seems to me having a bod made up of mostly veterinarians with a small group of farriers seems about right.

On a side note, I might pay to go see Craig Trnka talk to a bunch of vets. Should be interesting! :) (Too bad they continuously spelled his name wrong on there website)
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RE:Podiatry Discussion - Can We Accomplish? 09 Feb 2011 06:07 #40

  • Travis Reed
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Dr Myers I seen in one of ur post that you would like to see a inforcement of testing vet on hoof ...so they can understand before injecting the back....by this statement I could only quess and it make sense that you would test yourself....I noticed at the bottom of all ur post you sign DVM....but not cf ..cjf...wcb..or guild...are u not proud of the education in those test hece the reason you not sign it to ur name...or I should sayall others because the guild does not allow testing unless ur a full time farrier ...goose and gander
Travis Reed.....


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RE:Podiatry Discussion - Can We Accomplish? 09 Feb 2011 14:03 #41

  • tbloomer
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Mike Ferrara wrote:
...except where the vet gives a non-diagnosis (the BS kind) and maybe half of a prescription that may or may not address shoeing and isn't interested in discussing their finding or recommendations with anybody.
What I find appaling about this scenario is that horse owners find it acceptable. They will happily pay for a non-diagnosis and then insist that the farrier do whatever the vet said - without requiring the vet and farrier to communicate directly. IME, if the vet won't discuss the case with me then I can't count on any information being relayed by the owner as accurate or reliable. In most cases this situation ends with me walking away.

However, in a decade I've only encountered this situation with about 4 or 5 different vets. It just happened that one of them was lecturing on "vet farrier cooperation" at the IHCS last year. I went to his seminar and confronted him about the situation. Funny how some folks thought I was out of line for doing that.
Tom Bloomer
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Here's the deal. I'm trying to keep it simple.
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RE:Podiatry Discussion - Can We Accomplish? 09 Feb 2011 15:06 #42

  • Mike Ferrara
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tbloomer wrote:
What I find appaling about this scenario is that horse owners find it acceptable. They will happily pay for a non-diagnosis and then insist that the farrier do whatever the vet said - without requiring the vet and farrier to communicate directly. IME, if the vet won't discuss the case with me then I can't count on any information being relayed by the owner as accurate or reliable. In most cases this situation ends with me walking away.

However, in a decade I've only encountered this situation with about 4 or 5 different vets. It just happened that one of them was lecturing on "vet farrier cooperation" at the IHCS last year. I went to his seminar and confronted him about the situation. Funny how some folks thought I was out of line for doing that.

Working on lameness cases that involve a vet to any great extent is such a small percentage of my business that it just doesn't matter. I'm just as happy if they haul to the clinic and let them do the whole thing. Let the vets stand behind their own BS. I'm tired of being hung out to dry by vets that couldn't find their butt using both hands while they make all the money.
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RE:Podiatry Discussion - Can We Accomplish? 09 Feb 2011 15:08 #43

  • George Geist
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Mike Ferrara wrote:
Working on lameness cases that involve a vet to any great extent is such a small percentage of my business that it just doesn't matter. I'm just as happy if they haul to the clinic and let them do the whole thing. Let the vets stand behind their own BS. I'm tired of being hung out to dry by vets that couldn't find their butt using both hands while they make all the money.
Stars must be aligned properly. :cool:
I find myself agreeing with Mike F about something:o
George
For another fun place to play........
www.horseshoersforum.invisionzone.com
Come over and say hello.
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RE:Podiatry Discussion - Can We Accomplish? 09 Feb 2011 15:22 #44

  • Mike Ferrara
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George Geist wrote:
Stars must be aligned properly. :cool:
I find myself agreeing with Mike F about something:o
George

We agree on a lot of stuff that doesn't involve government.
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RE:Podiatry Discussion - Can We Accomplish? 10 Feb 2011 00:36 #45

  • Peters Shoeing
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I've only worked with a couple vets. One recently told me "STORE BOUGHT eggbars and whatever type of pad you ARE COMFORTABLE WITH."
It made me think...this guy has seen some bad shoe making and pad applications, or more likely, he's misprescribed a shoe package that caused lameness and cant figure out who to blame.

As a sidenote, the owner of that horse thought I was trying to get more money out of her when I told her that he Rxed pads, just as I recommended during our consult before her horse was vetted. She didnt believe me and didnt call me back for a week. His word obviously has more weight than mine. No big deal though. I'll do it because I agree with the shoe package. If I didnt agree, I guess/hope I would speak up and the vet could handle it. If the vet got upset, I guess it could mean my name in the mud. :/ Maybe it's about how you approach it, how you offer your 2nd opinion, etc.

Ok, here's one...Recently, a client's horse went laminitic and the owner called her vet and asked me to call her vet so we could work together. He wouldnt even return my calls. He ended up charging her close to 4K for hospitalization and treatment. He or someone at the hospital put on clogs for $600. I dont blame the owner at all, she was doing what she thought was the best for her horse, but what the heck? Then, when the horse was released home, he insisted to come and make follow-ups to change the clogs and eventually remove them. No big deal, just weird money-hungry bs.
Alan Peters
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