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TOPIC: AFA News

RE:AFA News 29 Sep 2009 12:20 #31

halfmiler wrote:
linda,ill have to have yous guys down one weekend when i get the shop done.

ok, we'll have to do that sometime.
Union open to non platers as well. All other farriers, vet, owners, and trainers welcomed.
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RE:AFA News 29 Sep 2009 12:57 #32

  • IRNWKR_2
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unbridled wrote:

And what is the price to participate?


I assume that the test fee will be the same, which is different from one location to another. The AFA tacks on $45 dollar testing fee to the host fee wich is usuall around $100, but you may have to join the local chapter to take the test if your not a member of the AFA.
Jason Gilliland
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RE:AFA News 29 Sep 2009 14:45 #33

  • vthorseshoe
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When you talk about fee's I get the impression you only consider the cost of using the horse and facilities, which is charged out by the chapter putting on the testing and has nothing to do with the AFA.
The AFA fee's should include;

Cost of tester/examiner
cost of bookkeeping
basic fee to take test.

Cost of bookkeeping.......... Lets go into this a bit.

If the AFA Certification is open to anyone anywhere then who will keep the records and do the bookkeeping ? The AFA of course.
Now the membership fee in one manner or another helps pay for the office help.
IF non members take the exam isn't it logical and reasonable to add an additional fee for the bookkeeping that will be involved present and down the road ?
Or should the AFA members carry the burden of the cost ?

What bookkeeping ?

recording the results of each individuals testing results
being available to look up in the records and provide verification that said individual actuall is certified by the AFA and actually did test and pass all requirements. (time costs money and takes office help away from other AFA business)
Phone time or e-mail time doing the above.
Filling out the paperwork and seeing each qualified individual recieves his/her certificate of completion

my 2 cents worth ;)
"you may not like what I say" !
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RE:AFA News 29 Sep 2009 15:10 #34

  • Tom Stovall CJF
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vthorseshoe in gray

When you talk about fee's I get the impression you only consider the cost of using the horse and facilities, which is charged out by the chapter putting on the testing and has nothing to do with the AFA.
The AFA fee's should include;

Cost of tester/examiner
cost of bookkeeping
basic fee to take test.

Cost of bookkeeping.......... Lets go into this a bit.

If the AFA Certification is open to anyone anywhere then who will keep the records and do the bookkeeping ? The AFA of course.
Now the membership fee in one manner or another helps pay for the office help.

IF non members take the exam isn't it logical and reasonable to add an additional fee for the bookkeeping that will be involved present and down the road ?


The AFA's cost of serving as a repository for test results is negligible.

Or should the AFA members carry the burden of the cost ?

Presumably, the minuscule cost of creating and keeping certification records would be included in the testing fees for both AFA members and non-members alike. Perception is everything: If the AFA's certification program is to be seen as an altruistic service to the industry, not a means of inflating its membership rolls, then there can be no cost differential for member and non-member testees because charging non-members more than members for taking the AFA's certification tests will be seen as a ploy to force non-members to join the AFA.

The AFA has taken a giant step forward relative to enhancing its credibility within the industry by opening its certification to all comers: Does the AFA want to be perceived as the ONLY organization dedicated to raising the quality of farriery available to everyone in the industry by offering the industry's ONLY standardized, objectively quantified, certification tests to all comers? Or, does the AFA want its credibility to be placed at risk by forcing non-members to pay a premium for taking its certification tests?
Tom Stovall, CJF
"The only foolish question is the one left unasked."
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RE:AFA News 29 Sep 2009 16:18 #35

  • IRNWKR_2
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vthorseshoe wrote:
When you talk about fee's I get the impression you only consider the cost of using the horse and facilities, which is charged out by the chapter putting on the testing and has nothing to do with the AFA.
The AFA fee's should include;

Cost of tester/examiner
cost of bookkeeping
basic fee to take test.

Cost of bookkeeping.......... Lets go into this a bit.

If the AFA Certification is open to anyone anywhere then who will keep the records and do the bookkeeping ? The AFA of course.
Now the membership fee in one manner or another helps pay for the office help.
IF non members take the exam isn't it logical and reasonable to add an additional fee for the bookkeeping that will be involved present and down the road ?
Or should the AFA members carry the burden of the cost ?

What bookkeeping ?

recording the results of each individuals testing results
being available to look up in the records and provide verification that said individual actuall is certified by the AFA and actually did test and pass all requirements. (time costs money and takes office help away from other AFA business)
Phone time or e-mail time doing the above.
Filling out the paperwork and seeing each qualified individual recieves his/her certificate of completion

my 2 cents worth ;)

The chapter covers the cost of the testers and the examier and it also in our case covers the cost of a book keeper. The $45 AFA fee is for the little book keeping and forms they provide. The only monies that are no longer necessary are the membership fee, everything else is the same.
Jason Gilliland
"whether you think you can or think you caint your usually right" Henry Ford

"Im not as good as I once was, but Im just as good once as I ever was" My Grandad

"a wink is as good as a nod, to a blind mule" Barney Fyffe
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RE:AFA News 29 Sep 2009 20:27 #36

unbridled wrote:
My only agenda, as it has been publicly for past 20 years and in every unbridled TV show, is to continually reinforce the fact that the farrier is the most important component of the perfomance horse industry and that he/she is recognized for the contributions they make to the overall well-being of the horse by constantly continuing their education and honing their skills. That's my AGENDA period.
Susan,

If this is true, then it is a laudable agenda and I could support it.

Unfortunately, at this point in time I can not say that I believe that this is all there is to your agenda. You of course have it in your power to convince me (and everyone else) otherwise, but it will take time and behavior that does not have double meaning. I wish you the best in the process if this is what you truly wish to do.
Ronald E. Kramedjian, RJF

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RE:AFA News 29 Sep 2009 20:43 #37

  • vthorseshoe
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Tom, Interesting point of view and the way you state it, it makes sense.

Jason, Bookkeeping extends long after the certification.

Everything goes back to Lexington, and is recorded there by Ashley and Rachel.
They also will be the ones who look up records should anyone need info in the future.

I am sure I am just scratching the surface of what they do with record keeping.

my 2 cents worth ;)
"you may not like what I say" !
-but-
"you'll never have any doubts where I stand
quote Cindy Matthews 1948-2006


I thought my life had come to a close with Cindy's passing, but there is life after death Thankyou Sharon !

Bruce Matthews
Southeast...
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RE:AFA News 29 Sep 2009 23:54 #38

  • anvilsteve
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We had a lengthy discussion at the Board meeting about the above. First of all, when someone has been certified that is a title for life. Members who do not renew or non members who pass the exam will not be registered with the AFA. That means not listed on the AFA's website. Ramnifications of this are still under discussion. Secondly, the AFA fee has been raised to $50 to cover increased costs.

Tom you make some good points about not charging more for non members, but the non member fee will be $200. We feel that we have put together the testing infrastructure and should charge non members more then members. If this strategy does not work, it will be revisited. The Board feels a reasonable exam fee should be a member benefit. I appreciate your insight, Tom, so your input here is valued.

Steve Kraus, CJF BoD Region #5
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RE:AFA News 30 Sep 2009 00:18 #39

  • Jaye Perry
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unbridled wrote:
My only agenda, as it has been publicly for past 20 years and in every unbridled TV show, is to continually reinforce the fact that the farrier is the most important component of the perfomance horse industry .......That's my AGENDA period.


I thought it was the horse "that the most important thing to the horse industry"; but I can be a touch simple sometimes Susan.:eek:

Your "agenda" is a touch misconstrued by the "standard". The "standard", in which I cannot and will not pass is a starting point not an end all to be all IMO. Thus you , as a credentialed(per say) farrier need a "touch" more diversity .:rolleyes:
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RE:AFA News 30 Sep 2009 00:58 #40

  • unbridled
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Jaye Perry wrote:
I thought it was the horse "that the most important thing to the horse industry"; but I can be a touch simple sometimes Susan.:eek:

Your "agenda" is a touch misconstrued by the "standard". The "standard", in which I cannot and will not pass is a starting point not an end all to be all IMO. Thus you , as a credentialed(per say) farrier need a "touch" more diversity .:rolleyes:

WHoa unto me abt the horse:(! Not sure what you mean with regard to "standard"???:cool:
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RE:AFA News 30 Sep 2009 02:21 #41

anvilsteve wrote:
but the non member fee will be $200. We feel that we have put together the testing infrastructure and should charge non members more then members. If this strategy does not work, it will be revisited.
Essentially the AFA is charging a membership fee regardless of the candidates decision to join or not. And if the candidate has to attend more than one certification to pass all the elements this would mean multiple membership fees. The AFA might as well just leave the membership requirement in place, at least then the candidate gets something of value for their money and can save on the multiple testing penalties.

To me and I suspect to others there is no appreciable cost difference regardless of who is testing and the testing infrastructure is supposed to be paid for by the now $50 testing fee. The last I had heard the Certification Committee was breaking even on their income/expense.

To me the logic of this decision defies explanation. If the desire is to foster more participation in certification why charge a stiff penalty? If the object was to offer a service to the industry in accordance with the AFA’s 501(c)3 status as was explained to be by my Board Rep. then the additional fee is also contrary to the mission and or that reasoning, isn’t it? Can you give us a better picture of the reasoning that went into this decision?
Ronald E. Kramedjian, RJF

Visit the Guild of Professional Farriers, Inc. Website

"What is popular is not always right; what is right is not always popular." Unknown

"In matters of style swim with the current; In matters of principle, stand like a...
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RE:AFA News 30 Sep 2009 02:25 #42

  • Gary_Miller
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anvilsteve wrote:
We had a lengthy discussion at the Board meeting about the above. First of all, when someone has been certified that is a title for life. Members who do not renew or non members who pass the exam will not be registered with the AFA. That means not listed on the AFA's website. Ramnifications of this are still under discussion. Secondly, the AFA fee has been raised to $50 to cover increased costs.

Tom you make some good points about not charging more for non members, but the non member fee will be $200. We feel that we have put together the testing infrastructure and should charge non members more then members. If this strategy does not work, it will be revisited. The Board feels a reasonable exam fee should be a member benefit. I appreciate your insight, Tom, so your input here is valued.

Steve Kraus, CJF BoD Region #5
In other words nothing has been changed.

AFA membership = $150
Testing Fee = $50
Total = $200
Gary Miller, PF

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RE:AFA News 30 Sep 2009 02:58 #43

  • BS-Horseshoeing
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If thier trying to keep it exclusive this will work. Making the fees that much higher is just going to keep people saying it ain't worth it. If there not willing to pay the membership fee and get the few benefits included, they dam sure ain't going to pay the same price and get nothing. This either wasn't thought out to well or was thought out real well to find a way to keep non members from taking the test even with the verbage of it being open. If the AFA really wants this to work, they got to quit trying to run people off for not being members. Charging them that much extra is just going to keep them away. I understand maybe charging a little more, but that amount is ridiculous. JMO

I just attended a certification in Cave Creek AZ, it costs me $100.00 each time I go to one of these no matter how much of the test I take, one portion or all three. This Sat. it cost me $100.00 (as a member of the AFA) to turn in one square toe shoe left to complete my shoe board and do the on site mod plus $50.00 in fuel and a days work. I did it because it completed my CF and once I got started I needed to finish, that's just me. It took me (I'm sad to admit) 18 months to complete this process, partly because I suck at taking tests (anxiety) and partly because I was not willing to chase it around the country because of the cost involved. I have only attended ones here in AZ, I know others that have taken trips all over the country to get it done. So I've paid $300 in dues, and $400 in test fees, plus time and fuel. Now if the nonmember takes the test four times as I did they are already at $800 plus time and whatever else. It doesn't look that bad over a period of time now that I see it, but for the guy that comes prepared and passes in one try, it may be a little over the top. I'd split the difference and go $150 for the test, that should cover the costs and keep them from saying it's to much and not taking the test.

These are only my opinions and experiences, but I can see many thinking the cost is to much. Whether that's an excuse or not, who knows?
Ben Sturman
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RE:AFA News 30 Sep 2009 05:12 #44

  • George Geist
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I agree with you Ben,

When was it raised to $100? Admittedly I've been somewhat out of the loop for a number of years but last time I was involved with certifications I remember it being around $40 or $50 or something like that.

I also was of the opinion that their membership was way too much money which was the final straw that ran me off. Looks like there will be no change in that either:rolleyes:

Looks like they found a way to make it lucrative. Where is Mr Stovall about this?
George
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RE:AFA News 30 Sep 2009 23:45 #45

  • BS-Horseshoeing
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George, the fee for the test is only $45.00, the other fees cover the examiners cost and something else. I just know that every time I test here in AZ, it's $100.00. I've never tested anywhere else so I can't compare.
Ben Sturman
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Beware the lollipop of mediocrity, one lick and you will suck for ever!

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