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TOPIC: A great sing-along :)

RE:A great sing-along :) 11 Sep 2009 02:12 #46

  • Gary_Miller
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Gary Hill wrote:
Get the government out of it and let the churches do the Charity.
Here! Here!
Gary Miller, PF

Ride hard, shoot straight, and always speak the truth.
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RE:A great sing-along :) 11 Sep 2009 03:13 #47

  • Tom Stovall CJF
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Gary Hill in gray, stuff deleted

The Roman Catholic Church is one of the richest businesses in the world. Get the government out of it and let the churches do the Charity.


The problem is, with several notable exceptions, churches and other non profits don't really do much in terms of funneling contributions to folks who need a hand. As you correctly point out, the Church is business.

As a recovering Catholic (Oy vey! The guilt!), I've given a lot of thought to the role of religion in government and I've come the conclusion that religion and other non profits often compete with private enterprise while doing a generally poor job of promoting the general welfare of society. To be quite frank, with a few exceptions, churches and non-profits don't really do much to alleviate society's ills, but they usually pay their executives very well, one way or another.

I'm pretty much a flat tax guy, so I think we ought to tax churches and non-profits just like every other taxable entity. To be quite frank, I ain't much on seeing the clergy eating high on the hog while old folks are eating dogfood. As far as I'm concerned, giving religion a bye when it comes to taxes violates the spirit of the First Amendment.

I'll get mail. :)
Tom Stovall, CJF
"The only foolish question is the one left unasked."
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RE:A great sing-along :) 11 Sep 2009 03:18 #48

  • Gary Hill
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Mr Stovall, I too was raised in the Catholic church and I left in the late teens. I have been a member of a local Baptist church when my son was young and I felt we needed it. Now if we make a Cowboy Service I feel a bit more at home. Catholic church will wear out your knees!:D
"As I see it, winners get the money - while losers talk of "individual goals" and similar stuff." Tom Stovall
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RE:A great sing-along :) 11 Sep 2009 03:29 #49

  • Bill Adams
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Tom,
You and I probably couldn't be further apart in our theology, I of the Reformers, but we are spot on in agrement on this. The Church was admonished to care for it's own widows and orphans, and the Book dosen't even mention 501c3.
Good work if you can get it though, beats say, workin'.

A rightous man regardeth the life of his beast. Proverbs 12:10
I don't give a damn for a man who can only spell a word one way. Mark Twain
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RE:A great sing-along :) 11 Sep 2009 03:33 #50

Tom Stovall, CJF wrote:
To be quite frank, with a few exceptions, churches and non-profits don't really do much to alleviate society's ills, but they usually pay their executives very well, one way or another.
. . . I ain't much on seeing the clergy eating high on the hog while old folks are eating dogfood.
Not so
Funny thing Tom, I do agree,
I see big (why do they call them selves) DENOMINATIONs as you say
even independents that are large, serve up large plates for in house survings.
But it is the little churchs that tend to be as big a help as they can,
but they are little so the help is little.

I just hope, it all works out for the best, for you all'ers ;)
I'll get mail. :)
Consider your self Mailed :D

Well from me anyways.
Bradley SaintJohn

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RE:A great sing-along :) 11 Sep 2009 03:46 #51

Some of the comments on here comes across as if laziness is the reason some do not have health care. I know some very poor people that are far from lazy, hare working and honest folks. I also know some very rich people that are lazy and you can't trust them as far as you can throw them.

Unfortunately health care is a privilege not a right or your just darn lucky you have it. Walking into an emergency room is not health care, give me a break Gary. Many of us are just a couple of crisis from being homeless and dirt poor. Don't think so? Go talk to some of the homeless and ask how they got their. Hard to work when unemployment is at 10%.

Believe it or not, starvation is also a problem right here in the good ole USA, that seems to have the money to spend on a useless space program, updating telescopes to take pictures of what? Like we really need that info.

OK, enough out of me, need to get my sleep and thank the lord for another good day, no broken bones or something worse.
Phil Armitage, CF
AFA member 7480

"Anyone who proposes to do good must not expect people to roll stones out of his way, but must accept his lot calmly if they even roll a few more upon it." Albert Schweitzer
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RE:A great sing-along :) 11 Sep 2009 12:43 #52

  • Gary Hill
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I did forget something, Phil. We are flooded with illegals that get free healthcare on my dime. You Maineiers surely don't have that problem, I doubt the illegals would want to live there?
"As I see it, winners get the money - while losers talk of "individual goals" and similar stuff." Tom Stovall
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RE:A great sing-along :) 11 Sep 2009 13:15 #53

  • Gary_Miller
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Phil Armitage wrote:
Some of the comments on here comes across as if laziness is the reason some do not have health care. I know some very poor people that are far from lazy, hare working and honest folks. I also know some very rich people that are lazy and you can't trust them as far as you can throw them.
I don't think anyone said anything about laziness being the reason some do not have health care. It was said that it was about choice and what people choose to do with their money, as well as if you don't have enough money to make ends met then you ether do without of find a different job that pays more. That's just a fact of life.

However, since you brought it up. Like it or not there are allot of lazy people in our society, people who would rather sit at home and live of the government handouts, or stand in the Walmart parking lot holding a sign. If you can make a couple of hundred of bucks a day from handouts you don't have to work and you don't have to pay taxes ether.

OTOH, I do believe there are lots of people who need legitimate help. But the kind of help they need is not a "hand out" but a "hand up" so they can stand on their own two feet and hold their head up high. You will know these people when you see them because they usually won't ask for help even though it obvious they need it.


Phil Armitage wrote:
Unfortunately health care is a privilege not a right or your just darn lucky you have it.
Yep, and I'm very thankful that I have it. However, in my case its a right as I earned it and it was promised to me by the citizens country as a thank you for serving them for 22yrs. Need I point out that everyone in the country had/have the same chance as I did to have health care.

Phil Armitage wrote:
Walking into an emergency room is not health care, give me a break Gary.
No but there is a doctor office or a clinic in most every town in our nation, and that make health care available to all who choose to pay for it.

Phil, remember we are not talking the lack of "health care" but the lack of "health insurance". Like it or not there is a difference.

Phil Armitage wrote:
Many of us are just a couple of crisis from being homeless and dirt poor. Don't think so? Go talk to some of the homeless and ask how they got their.
So right you are.

Phil Armitage wrote:
Hard to work when unemployment is at 10%.
Hows that Pres. Obama stimulas package working out for you?

Phil Armitage wrote:
Believe it or not, starvation is also a problem right here in the good ole USA,
There would be allot more starvation if we didn't do what we do.

Phil Armitage wrote:
that seems to have the money to spend on a useless space program, updating telescopes to take pictures of what? Like we really need that info.
If it was not for the space program we would not have the technology advancements we now have and enjoy everyday.


Phil Armitage wrote:
OK, enough out of me, need to get my sleep and thank the lord for another good day, no broken bones or something worse.
I hope you slept well and have a safe day at work.
Gary Miller, PF

Ride hard, shoot straight, and always speak the truth.
Gunfighter Motto

"Our level of quality is how well our eye can see it." (Eric Russell, Oct 2008, Horseshoes.com)

"Discover what it is that makes you passionate then grab a firm...
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RE:A great sing-along :) 11 Sep 2009 13:47 #54

  • Mike Ferrara
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I too am old enough to remember when the doctor came to the house. Dad didn't make much money then either (maybe $50/week).

As near as I can tell from the research I've done is the change has primarily been brought about by insurance companies and government regulations that protect and promote insurance companies. Few people even had insurance until government wage and price freezes promted companies to offer benefit packages as a legal way to increase pay and compete for labor. Insurance has just about done away with competition between medical care providers. What we are seeing isn't a failure of a free market system but evidence of what happens when you mess with a free market. When health care was more of a free market, the doc came to the house and worked for what the patients could or would pay.

Overhead? The cost of health care has also risen because of advancement. Not long ago they couldn't do much for you so it didn't cost much. However, in addition to malpractice insurance costs, most doctors offices, clinics and hospitals have HUGE overhead in billing. It takes a lot of people just to deal with Medicare(the government) and insurance companies. That's something we didn't have years ago. You paid the doc and dealt with the insurance yourself. Now it's too complicated.

More government involvement is only going to make this worse. I'll say it again, nobody who is qualified to analyze a system is looking at this and if they are, they're being ignored.
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RE:A great sing-along :) 11 Sep 2009 20:46 #55

  • Gary_Miller
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Mike Ferrara wrote:
However, in addition to malpractice insurance costs, most doctors offices, clinics and hospitals have HUGE overhead in billing. It takes a lot of people just to deal with Medicare(the government) and insurance companies.
My kids eye doc/surgeon stopped accepting my government funded insurance, Tri-Care, because he had to employ one person full time just to do the billing and then most of the time the billing had to be sent twice due to lack of payment, and they usually paid less than medicare. He told me that it was to costly to continue excepting the insurance.

I ended up paying for my kids eye care out of pocket, $100 a visit. Oh, I could of change docs but my kid had crossed eyes when she was born and this doc who was the best pediatric eye surgeon in the area had been seeing her since she was 6 months old. At the time he had done two surgeries and she was only 9 or ten. No way was I going to change docs just because the insurance would not cover the bill. That was the choice I made.
Gary Miller, PF

Ride hard, shoot straight, and always speak the truth.
Gunfighter Motto

"Our level of quality is how well our eye can see it." (Eric Russell, Oct 2008, Horseshoes.com)

"Discover what it is that makes you passionate then grab a firm...
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RE:A great sing-along :) 12 Sep 2009 00:11 #56

  • Jaye Perry
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Ronald E. Kramedjian.......As I do go I would suggest to everyone that they take a little time to review how their positions and presentations appear. I’m not exactly proud of how I approached Mr. Perry and I’m sorry that I allowed our past history and my opinion of Mr. Perry to color my interaction as it did. I’ll have to be more vigilant in the future.

......

That is YOUR 1st Amendment right to have an opinion.
My concern with your single minded approach of "Empathy" doesn't pertain to others.
My family comes first and foremost and if people are concerned and want to be INFORMED read the entire bill:

http://docs.house.gov/edlabor/AAHCA-BillText-071409.pdf


Especially read the section for small business and the section starting with page 167.

If I, as a small business owner; page 179, cannot make a profit; how can I be philanthropic without thinking that a penalty would make me more but throw the burden of health costs onto others? Who's "morality" dictionary are we using? IOW, I like paying my way and not relying on others to make it for me.
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RE:A great sing-along :) 17 Sep 2009 00:23 #57

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I don't see why anyone would rely on the government for anything??? What do they ever get right? They are more worried about people in other countries instead of their own citizens, Obama prooved that when he went all over other countries "apologizing" for the US. What is the big deal about paying your own way. It all comes down to power folks, I may not be very old and might not have been around about the time this happened before in a different country but it sounds very familar. First take over auto business, check, then take over health care, soon, then disarm the citizens. Sounds real familar acept no swastikas this time. When this country was first started if someone had these ideas and tried to force them on the people without the we the peoples go ahead, they had a name for them, TRADERS.
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RE:A great sing-along :) 18 Sep 2009 10:29 #58

  • Mike Ferrara
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PerformanceHorseshoeing wrote:
I don't see why anyone would rely on the government for anything??? What do they ever get right? They are more worried about people in other countries instead of their own citizens, Obama prooved that when he went all over other countries "apologizing" for the US. What is the big deal about paying your own way. It all comes down to power folks, I may not be very old and might not have been around about the time this happened before in a different country but it sounds very familar. First take over auto business, check, then take over health care, soon, then disarm the citizens. Sounds real familar acept no swastikas this time. When this country was first started if someone had these ideas and tried to force them on the people without the we the peoples go ahead, they had a name for them, TRADERS.


You're right, it's about more money and power for the government. When so much money is passed through them, they skim off whatever they want. You don't have to do much research to see that there are untold BILLIONS that are embezzled, misused or wrongly taken legally. Read a new story just the other day about all the Illinois politicians a bureaucrats that are collecting a full salary pension and a salary.

If you put that money back in the hands of the people who earned it, those who really produce, they'll be able to take care of themselves and we will be FAR wealthier as a nation.
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RE:A great sing-along :) 18 Sep 2009 13:43 #59

  • Rick Burten
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Hey Nick, is it "traders" or "traitors"? :confused::eek: :p:D
Rick Burten PF

In the immortal words of Ron White: "But let me tell you something, folks: You can't fix S-tupid. There's not a pill you can take; there's not a class you can go to. S-tupid is forever."
."


Je pense donc je suis
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RE:A great sing-along :) 05 May 2010 22:25 #60

One thing they didn't do was fly hyjacked airliners full of people , who were mostly Americans into our own buildings! Iraq yeah big mistake, but all of a sudden they are getting their combat aircraft back from where they were hidden? The next four years can't go by fast enought for me, but one thing for sure this experiment in presidency won't happen again? Almost every person I know that voted him in, said it was a mistake. Not a whole lot of people admit it now. Wonder why?
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