Tom Stovall, CJF wrote:Now you do.

Please don't say anything silly, such as "health care is available to folks who choose pay for it"; in reality, that choice is UNAVAILABLE to millions of citizens in this country.
Last time I looked there was plenty of places in this country where one can get "health care". And no one is ever turned way from emergency care. So there is no lack of "health care" in our nation.
And yes Tom saddly it comes down to choice and what one choose to do with their money. And while I know there are those who struggle to make ends met because of little money it still is a choice on what you choose to do with your money. I know because i have to make that choice everyday of my life.
Tom Stovall, CJF wrote:Nossir, I'm saying that the COST of health care is unconscionably high
Lots of people have said health care is to costly. Things like it cost to much to for an office visit, or two much for a hospital stay, or for drugs given while in the hospital. However, doctors have a huge overhead, they have equipment, staff, facility, insurance (malpractice and health insurance for employes), etc., all which cost money so they have to charge enough to cover their costs. Hospitals have the same thing. On top of all this they also have people who can't or don't pay that they see anyway so that adds to the overhead as well. From what I have seen I don't see where the costs charged by doctors or hospitals are to far out of line when you compare the overhead they have. Not to mention they also have to make a living.
Here is an example of a recent office visit my wife had, The doctor (a neurologist) billed the insurance $69.54 the insurance allowed $66.30 the insurance payed $54.30 I paid a $12.00 copay the difference between what was allowed and what was paid. Total time seen at visit around 30 minutes.
Another example. My wife had an echocardiograph done at a local hospital. Hospital billed $210.00 insurance allowed $68.37 insurance paid $68.37. Time to have test completed 1 hour.
I don't think that the amounts billed my the Doctor or hospital was out of line at all considering the cost of overhead. Yet the cost paid my my "government insurance" is barely enough and in some cases not enough to cover the cost associated with running a business.
So Tom or anyone else knowing what type of overhead a doctor has to run his business. What do you think would be a fare charge for just a basic office visit? And what do you think would be a good salary for a doctor?
Tom Stovall, CJF wrote:- and that should have nothing to do with the cost of purchasing health care insurance because for-profit insurance is an artificial construction that creates a barrier between patient and doctor.
Yes but it has been determined that the problem with our "health care system" is the the cost and availability of "Health Insurance".
And the only reason for having insurance is so that we don't have a great big bill that could cause us financial hardship if something was to go really wrong.
As for creating a barrier between the patient and doctor only if you as a patient is unwilling (by choice) to pay for whats not covered by the insurance you purchased.
Tom Stovall, CJF wrote:C'mon Gary, do you really think anyone CHOOSES to live under a bridge?
No but I do think that in most cases it was choices one made at sometime, past and present, that put them under the bridge. And its ones current choices they make that keep them under the brigde.
This is not to be construed, that I don't think we as a society should not help them to get out from under the bridge. Because I think we should do what ever we can to help get people out from under that bridge if passable. But once we have done all that was passable, in the end its the choice of the individual if they get out from under the bridge.
However, its where this help comes from where the disagreement is.
Some people think that it the governments role and responsibility to make sure no one ends up under the bridge, and to do this they have the right to take money from one person and give it to another.
On the other hand some people think its not the governments role or responsibility to make sure no one ends up under the bridge but its the communities role and responsibility in which they live through the help of individual compassionate donations to charitable organizations.
Remeber, "Give a man a fish and you feed him a meal, teach a man to fish and you have feed him for a life time."
Tom Stovall, CJF wrote:The salient point is that health care professionals are NOT running the health care industry! Insurance company actuaries, not medical personnel, determine the availability of medical procedures.
While insurance companies play a big part of this. Government regulations place upon the insurance companies play a bigger role.
Example: My wife needs a drug called "Imatrx" to help kill her migraine headaches. Her doctor wants to give her enough to have one a day if needed, or 30 a month. However, due to "government regulation" she is only authorized 18 a month. To get more the doctor has to write up a justification send it to the insurance company for approval. Both the pharmacist and the insurance company say it due to government regulations.
Tom Stovall, CJF wrote:I think the way our government has treated our veterans is disgraceful! However, the problem you've had with your government funded health care - or, or that matter, any problems I might encounter with Medicare - have no relationship to the problems of someone unable to obtain ANY health care.
I agree that there is no relationship to the problem of one not being able to obtain any health care. However the problems I have and the problems you have are a good indicator of the problems we will all have under government controlled health insurance.
Tom Stovall, CJF wrote:[As an aside, here in the Sunbelt, the emergency rooms have so been overwhelmed by illegal aliens that it's not uncommon for a hospital to place emergency vehicles on "drive by" status, meaning they CANNOT accept ANY patients in their emergency room because they simply don't have enough room. if the gutless bastards in Washington would make it a felony to hire anyone without a valid social security card, a big part of the lack of health care availability would be alleviated - but, don't hold your breath.]
I don't disagree that there is a big problem with illegal aliens. Sad to say that under the current administration the problelm is not going to go away, its just going to get bigger.
Tom Stovall, CJF wrote:So, yessir, I damn sure believe the government can do better job than the private sector when it comes to providing health care for folks who can't afford insurance! For some reason, it seems fashionable for many folks to disparage our government, as if it were some sort of doofus, collectively incapable of doing anything right - and I vehemently disagree with that proposition! It ain't perfect, it doesn't always get things right, but it's a helluva lot better than whatever system is second best.
I agree that our system of government is allot better than any other system of government currently on the planet. However it has been proven time and time again that there are just some things that are better off without government involvement. Government tends to have a tendency to over regulate everything in the name of doing what best for the nation. However, its been shone many times that government regulations are the problem and not the solution. Take the current economy its due to over regulation that most of our manufacturing companies are now over seas.
Tom Stovall, CJF wrote:As I see it, having more doctors in rural areas would be a Good Thing. At present, they tend to gravitate to urban areas, just like farriers, because that's where the money's at.
One has to do what they have to do to make a living. However it more than just the money for instance. I live in a rural area and there are good doctors in this area that I and my family would be more than willing to see. However, in order to have the best benefit program from my "Government Insurance" I can't see any of them because they are what is called out of the "catchment area" to be able to qualify as a primary care manager.