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TOPIC: Health Care

Health Care 24 Aug 2009 00:58 #1

  • Anvil150
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For anyone living in a country with government health care I would like to know what you think of it. as you probably know The US is trying to put it through congress. I hear horror stories about rationing and long waits. what are your experiences?
A.J. Nuckles,CF
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RE:Health Care 24 Aug 2009 01:24 #2

  • Tom Stovall CJF
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Anvil150 in gray

For anyone living in a country with government health care I would like to know what you think of it. as you probably know The US is trying to put it through congress.

My wife and I are on Medicare, parts A, B and D.

I hear horror stories about rationing and long waits. what are your experiences?

We haven't had our medical care rationed and haven't experienced any longer waits than when we were with AIG. When I had a little health problem, all of the recommended diagnostic testing was done without delay and treatment was initiated immediately. Medicare is not perfect, but having imperfect insurance beats the hell out of having none at all. :)
Tom Stovall, CJF
"The only foolish question is the one left unasked."
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RE:Health Care 24 Aug 2009 01:26 #3

Contrary to the perceived notion that Canada's system is no good,

IT was awesome.

What is the difference between when it was awesome and now ???

The Feds passed the mantle to the provincial Gov and then to meet budget
They have been cutting funding so now there are problems, it is that simple.

The way to fix it is to throw money at it. It is that simple.

Lets look at it this way:
Adjusted to 2005 Apollo spent $135 billion to have 12 men walk on the moon.
Yes it was very COOL, but that is 11.25 billion per man, to walk on the moon.
You who say "I'm not paying for the kid down the block to get his appendix out, let him die"

As far as I am concerned Just throw lots of money at it,
include dental, it is a health issue.

:D
Bradley SaintJohn

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RE:Health Care 24 Aug 2009 01:57 #4

  • JD Sawyer
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I have some friends in the U.K. Scotland to be exact. I have asked the same question and their opinions were the same as Mr. Bradley's Great when it started but budget became the problem and now its a mess.
They also thought that it improved rural health care immensely.

JD
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RE:Health Care 24 Aug 2009 02:17 #5

  • beslagsmed
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Living here in Denmark we got socialized medical care. I have had to use it 3-4 times since I have lived here. Got a nail pilled down my little finger. Went to the emergancy room, they cleaned it, x-rayed it, sewed it up, gave me medication for it, and turned me loose - did receive a bill for it. My doctor is in a town next to me. I was assigned one since I never had one. My wife's doctor is in a nother town, which she has had for years. Yes I got to make appointments like everyone else. I get some paid on dental as well, not all, but part. Had an abcessed tooth this past summer. I think it paid around 25%. My wife's mother had cancer - she was given treatment for free, transportation was provided to and from hospital. It was a very radical cancer and spread thoughout her body. We were given the choice of putting her in a hospice or bringing her home. She came home, my wife was given time from her job (with pay) to take care of her. As she failed so the care increased. They brought out hospital bed, portable toilet, a RN stop as needed for care, drug injection. Our fridge looked like a drug store. After she died, they came and got everything - no charge. My wife has be diganosed with 2 collapsed disks in her back and received treatment.

With all that said, yes there are problems, the big one is money. Like every other place Denmark is struggling to pay for everything. Yes there are lines and lists for elective surgery. They have revamped the health care system by consolidating types of care in different hospitals. Example - Cancer care in one, transplants in another. Some emercancy rooms have been closed.
You have to understand Denmark is not big - I can drive from the west coast to Copenhagen in 3.5 hrs.

Hope this gives some insite.
Mikel Dawson, RJF

(Denmark)
What part of "NO" don't you understand!!

Caution: Watch for hoof in mouth disease!!!
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RE:Health Care 24 Aug 2009 02:40 #6

  • Anvil150
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the biggest thing we keep hearing in the US is that there is rationing for the elderly and long waits for specialists.
A.J. Nuckles,CF
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RE:Health Care 24 Aug 2009 02:48 #7

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Anvil150 wrote:
the biggest thing we keep hearing in the US is that there is rationing for the elderly and long waits for specialists.

I have never heard of rationing for the elderly. I can't comment on long waiting lists for specialists as I just haven't paid that much attention to it. I do know, like I said, they are like every other country, having money problems which do trickle down.

I have been following the debate at home, and I can see it is getting heated. If the insurnace companies weren't raping the public for premiums, this debate wouldn't be happening. With the EO of the insurance companies getting skyhigh wages, no wonder the consumer is paying so much. If people were the main focus and not money, well no problem.
Mikel Dawson, RJF

(Denmark)
What part of "NO" don't you understand!!

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RE:Health Care 24 Aug 2009 03:10 #8

  • George Geist
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beslagsmed wrote:
I have never heard of rationing for the elderly. I can't comment on long waiting lists for specialists as I just haven't paid that much attention to it. I do know, like I said, they are like every other country, having money problems which do trickle down.
Is much ado about nothing. The talk of waiting lines and such is already happening. Been to an American ER lately? Our healthcare system is already in a shambles. When I used to hang out in Canada I saw firsthand that they had a fine system which worked as it should.
I have been following the debate at home, and I can see it is getting heated. If the insurnace companies weren't raping the public for premiums, this debate wouldn't be happening. With the EO of the insurance companies getting skyhigh wages, no wonder the consumer is paying so much. If people were the main focus and not money, well no problem.
Breaking the stranglehold of the insurance monopolies is going to be a formidable problem. They have limitless funds as evidenced not only by their having the tallest buildings in every town but by their ability to organize and disrupt town meetings everywhere they can.

On the issue of lack of money.........

A good friend from England tells me their system worked great for many years. The reason it's now bankrupt is because of immigration. They have the same wide open door immigration policy as the USA, thus entirely too many people burden their system that never have or will contribute to it.

End this problem first and it will be an easy fix.
George
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www.horseshoersforum.invisionzone.com
Come over and say hello.
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RE:Health Care 24 Aug 2009 03:18 #9

Anvil150 wrote:
as you probably know The US is trying to put it through congress.
Hmmmm.

First. I wonder how this applies to farrier politics?

Next I get my health care from the VA. Do I like having to jump through the VA's hoops? No. But the care I get is good when I am really sick. I wish it was more like Medicare, the flexability would be cool.

Last, your charicterization of what has been proposed is inaccurate. A single payer, Medicare for all plan is not being asked for. The option for Individules to purchase insurane from the government at competitive prices is being persued.

On such a major issue I think it is a bit sad that the debate has ben reduced toa pachwork of missinformation or I've lies. Further, it is sad that those telling the lies count on American voters in general to be to lazy or out of touch to catch them at it by researching the issues themselfs.
Ronald E. Kramedjian, RJF

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RE:Health Care 24 Aug 2009 04:29 #10

  • JD Sawyer
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George and Ron both make excellent points no matter if its health care or not the immigration policies need to be better, and illegal immigration needs to be stopped completely.
But as Ron noted the apathy of the average american is sad, and most people would rather go by here say than look into the facts.
Its a mess that only the people themselves can change.

JD
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RE:Health Care 24 Aug 2009 11:09 #11

  • Anvil150
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I don't know anyone who lives where there is gov health care just wanted to get first hand info and know we have people from Europe on here. I wasn't sure were to post this thread if I posted in the wrong section i apologize. any how thanks for the constructive reply's. It is good to get first hand info.
A.J. Nuckles,CF
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RE:Health Care 24 Aug 2009 11:58 #12

  • ThomasRideandDrive
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Well I'm in the UK where there's health care for all. I'm also testament to it's success.

Makes no difference whether you're rich or poor you are guaranteed to get health care from the moment you get sick to the moment you die :rolleyes:..... I mean get better ! (joke!)

The myth (abroad!) is that there's long waiting lists and rationing of treatment and of course it's true to say that you don't just walk in and get what you want no matter. But in a world where resources are finite that happens and personally speaking I've no issue with it. You have to wait for things that aren't critical (life threatening). You don't get things just because you want them. Want a boob job and there's no underlying clinical need then you can still have it..... but you pay.

Having a National Health Service doesn't mean that if you can afford it and want to pay extra that you can't chose to buy supplementary additional support or treatment.

So if I have a pain in my hip and see my doctor who sends me for an x ray and I have to wait for 3 weeks, then I can chose to pay and go quicker if I want to. If I then discover I need a hip replacement and find I have to wait the 103 days that it actually is in my region and I think that is WAYYYY too long then I either have to satisfy clinical test that it's to my health detriment and jump the queue or else again I can if I want pay to go private and perhaps quicker.

Appreciate though that on the NHS I not only get my operation but I also get all the medication and physiotherapy I will subsequently need.

I never have to worry myself sick about whether I can afford to have the whole range of clinical evaluations and tests and treatments though and I need not be concerned if money is tight.

I know I get my cancer treatment courtesy of the NHS and I know I'm alive because of it.

Another real example....Elderly: My father in law is 86 and went to his GP last week because his eyes are running tears permanently. Went to the Opthalmic specialist this morning and is in hospital having a minor operation this coming Monday.

If that's waiting then it suits us and you can keep the American system for yourselves.

Incidentally he also had a heart pacemaker fitted a few years ago and within 3 hours of being taken by air ambulance to hospital having been taken ill at our farm on Boxing Day! Also got transported back to his own home 80 miles from hospital once he'd got sorted. All free!

The other myth is that it's bankrupt. Now that is total tosh! You might want to give this a read:

http://www.nhs.uk/NHSEngland/aboutnhs/Pages/About.aspx

"Some" people blame the decline of the whole nation on immigration and foreigners. I'm not one of those. I dismiss that as prejudicial bovine excrement and file it appropriately!

Now when I say its "free" of course that's not really true. We're a social democracy with a welfare state and those who work pay contributions called National Insurance and based on income. That in effect is what pays for it and long may it be.
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RE:Health Care 24 Aug 2009 12:22 #13

  • dave murray
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i have no complaints here in ontario canada. everything is free and in a timely manner. life threatening matters are handled right away, things like hip replacements and knees , you may have to wait 3 to6 months, my health card is my favorite card in my wallet, i use it they swipe it and i never get a bill .
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RE:Health Care 24 Aug 2009 12:58 #14

  • Jack Evers
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Anvil150 wrote:
I don't know anyone who lives where there is gov health care just wanted to get first hand info and know we have people from Europe on here. I wasn't sure were to post this thread if I posted in the wrong section i apologize. any how thanks for the constructive reply's. It is good to get first hand info.

Baron might not agree, but, to me, this is a farrier politics issue since we're mostly independent contractors who only have access to a group plan through a spouse with one. National health care would benefit many of us. That said, I have had some very unsatisfactory experiences, both personal and thru friends and relatives in countries with National plans so have reservations, especially with a president who takes six months to choose a dog, but wants to pass a health care plan that he's not subject to in three weeks. It's too quick and smacks of purely political.
Jack Evers CJF AFA#426

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The older I get, the more horses I shoe, the fewer things that I can absolutely, positively fix.
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RE:Health Care 24 Aug 2009 14:51 #15

Jack Evers wrote:
Baron might not agree, but, to me, this is a farrier politics issue since we're mostly independent contractors who only have access to a group plan through a spouse with one. National health care would benefit many of us.
On this point I whole heartedly agree. Those of us that work for ourselves, those of us that have "issues" (preexisting conditions) and those of us over a certain age all have trouble with access and the costs when access is available are astronomical. A public option plan would at least let us purchase insurance at a reasonable rate. A national plan, single payer, would be even better as it would reduce cost over all to individuals and to employers that provide healthcare.

Jack Evers wrote:
That said, I have had some very unsatisfactory experiences, both personal and thru friends and relatives in countries with National plans so have reservations,
Jack, how many people here in the US have private insurance companies out right refuse treatment. How many bad outcomes have there been in that decision making process. How many people have gone bankrupt over medical bills even though they had purchased insurance. How many have been canceled because they were diagnosed with a major illness or a long term illness like diabetes. And all of these things happening not because it was a good medical decision, but because it was good for the private insurance companies profits.

Jack Evers wrote:
especially with a president who takes six months to choose a dog, but wants to pass a health care plan that he's not subject to in three weeks. It's too quick and smacks of purely political.
This is Republican hyperbolae. The debate on health care didn’t start when President Obama took office, it has been going one for many years and there have been many plans presented and blocked along the way by both Republicans and Democrats. This is yet another red herring being foisted upon the public like “Death Panels” and coverage for illegal aliens. The real issue being debated is how to protect the health insurance companies profits not how to provide reasonable cost effective health care to the citizens of this country. If we were debating health care single payer would still be on the table.
Ronald E. Kramedjian, RJF

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"What is popular is not always right; what is right is not always popular." Unknown

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