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TOPIC: AFA program a failure in Vermont

RE:AFA program a failure in Vermont 23 Aug 2009 05:19 #181

  • beslagsmed
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Susan,
I was wondering what happened to the No Hoof No Horse. Haven't received one in a long time, but I thought that was due to my being across the pond. Was a good pub, really enjoyed getting it.
Mikel Dawson, RJF

(Denmark)
What part of "NO" don't you understand!!

Caution: Watch for hoof in mouth disease!!!
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RE:AFA program a failure in Vermont 23 Aug 2009 11:26 #182

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Mikel,

I enjoyed producing NFNH and was looking forward to sending out the next copy which included helpful articles and interviews, however, I was told by the AFA attorney in a recent letter that the AFA BoD did not want me to produce it -- to stop production on it. I don't know why.
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RE:AFA program a failure in Vermont 23 Aug 2009 13:34 #183

Susan, what did your publication cost the AFA and how much were you paid? Should be easy for you to post this info here for all to see in a timely manner.

Thank you.
Phil Armitage, CF
AFA member 7480

"Anyone who proposes to do good must not expect people to roll stones out of his way, but must accept his lot calmly if they even roll a few more upon it." Albert Schweitzer
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RE:AFA program a failure in Vermont 23 Aug 2009 19:57 #184

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As I recall (I am not in my office this Sunday afternoon)--

In a nutshell, rockin horse productions was paid $36,000 for the time it worked for the AFA and sold about $32,000 in advertising/sponsorship for the same period in the Weekly eNews, NFNH (print & Issuu) and YouTube Channel.

During our brief time together we re-established relations with soured advertisers and had recieved a bevy of content from authors to publish. We had significant ongoing advertising commitments that were unfortunately cancelled when the BoD decided to go with iHorseshoe along with a very large sponsor to produce NFNH into a spectacular DVD series for horse owners -- this would have made a nice profit for the AFA while generating good will and proper hoofcare awareness in the equine community.

The 16-page, full color NFNH newsletter cost the AFA .75 cents per member including postage.

Hope this helps.
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RE:AFA program a failure in Vermont 23 Aug 2009 20:10 #185

Susan I get the feeling that you are out for some sort of retribution, slinging some muck and telling just a little bit of the whole deal.
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RE:AFA program a failure in Vermont 23 Aug 2009 20:31 #186

unbridled wrote:
As I recall (I am not in my office this Sunday afternoon)--

In a nutshell, rockin horse productions was paid $36,000 for the time it worked for the AFA and sold about $32,000 in advertising/sponsorship for the same period in the Weekly eNews, NFNH (print & Issuu) and YouTube Channel.

During our brief time together we re-established relations with soured advertisers and had recieved a bevy of content from authors to publish. We had significant ongoing advertising commitments that were unfortunately cancelled when the BoD decided to go with iHorseshoe along with a very large sponsor to produce NFNH into a spectacular DVD series for horse owners -- this would have made a nice profit for the AFA while generating good will and proper hoofcare awareness in the equine community.

The 16-page, full color NFNH newsletter cost the AFA .75 cents per member including postage.

Hope this helps.

So let me see if I get this straight. The AFA is a non-profit organization. They were paying you 36,000.00 and are now paying 27,000.00. Am I missing something here?
Phil Armitage, CF
AFA member 7480

"Anyone who proposes to do good must not expect people to roll stones out of his way, but must accept his lot calmly if they even roll a few more upon it." Albert Schweitzer
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RE:AFA program a failure in Vermont 23 Aug 2009 22:06 #187

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Phil -- $36,000 was for multiple Newsletters (not just one!), A YouTube Channel, Weekly eNews, HD Commercials, all production, all content and quite a bit more of communication; ie story ideas, articles in mainstream mags, press releases etc.

Unfortunately, you are missing alot ... which is my whole point. Whether the organization is for-profit or non-profit is irrelevant to this particular discussion as all material produced was to educate and build awareness of the AFA's programs.
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RE:AFA program a failure in Vermont 23 Aug 2009 23:09 #188

unbridled wrote:
Phil -- $36,000 was for multiple Newsletters (not just one!), A YouTube Channel, Weekly eNews, HD Commercials, all production, all content and quite a bit more of communication; ie story ideas, articles in mainstream mags, press releases etc.

Unfortunately, you are missing alot ... which is my whole point. Whether the organization is for-profit or non-profit is irrelevant to this particular discussion as all material produced was to educate and build awareness of the AFA's programs.

Sounds good. Why didn't the BOD like this? Their must be reasons.
Phil Armitage, CF
AFA member 7480

"Anyone who proposes to do good must not expect people to roll stones out of his way, but must accept his lot calmly if they even roll a few more upon it." Albert Schweitzer
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RE:AFA program a failure in Vermont 24 Aug 2009 11:32 #189

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Phil Armitage wrote:
Sounds good. Why didn't the BOD like this? Their must be reasons.

I have had 100s of members ask me the same thing, especially with the recent drop off in communications. I do not know why the BoD didn't like this -- I do know the members liked what we did per the 100s emails, calls and letters I received !?!?!

Perhaps that's why the expression "the good ole boys club" overshadows everything AFA...
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RE:AFA program a failure in Vermont 24 Aug 2009 14:45 #190

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100's of folks e-mailing or asking you what happened.
That really presents a very good image Susan.
And basically they are reacting to the product produced. A good product well recieved.
BUT!!!
How many of these folks have bothered to make phone calls to both sides of the issue and gather information that, could, would, and should influence their questions and decisions.
So far what I see are visual responces to only one side of an issue.

The question on advertisers and free ads (and advertisers not knowing it was being done ...this I really find unbelievable)

Has anyone asked why such ads may have been implimented ?
Nothing like this gets done "for no reason at all."

With the change of the powers to be, could decisions have been made by previous persons and with time passing others were un-aware of why thisw was done without researching it out fully.

You imply it was a st***d MOVE. Are you saying that the BOD or EC make st***d decisions with NO reasonable or sensical reasoning ?
Wouldn't it be wiser to suggest your readers research and ask MANY persons involved as to why this decision was implimented RATHER than make misleading statements ????

Rather than giving us "DUH ! I think I remember this to be the amount cause I am not in my office....
How about an exact break down of the TOTAL amount you charged and recieved during your tenour.

Being an astute business woman, I would tend to believe you can recall in seconds if you met a perspective employer and needed to do some financial figuring quickly to decide if this would be profitable.

Aren't the magazines cost available on the front of each magazine inside cover or there abouts ?

IF you are going to openly make statements or present it in the manner " Why is this happening to me ??"

Then is it unreasonable for us to request the WHOLE picture and not specifically chosen tid bits to PEAK favorable interest ???

Why am I asking these questions ?
YOU made it public.
You brought the topic to us.
YOU asked us a question when you said; "why is this happening to me ?"

To give as honest an answer as a person can;
it requires researching the problem,
it requires honest answers from both parties involved
The culmination of which will allow someone else to make a reasonable decision and present their view and give you an answer.

And responding to your remark about a good ole boys club.
I and many others have used this term in the past.

I for one, want to say, "as easy as it is to say, it is such a horrible mis-nomer of a group of dedicated and hard working men and women all across the area's the AFA reaches.
THERE are SO MANY persons who work behind the scenes and let the figure heads take the credit (and the blame) who give it THEIR ALL.
The figure heads give it their all and do so with "honest intentions" of bettering the association FOR EVERYONE.
To use this term is to imply Andrew was part of the "good ole boys club" yet we know "he did his best to guide and impliment and aide in making the AFA a worth while organization."
Andrews presence at the Vermonts AFA certification was such a positive one.
I have not heard ONE negative about his guidance,judging, or decision making at this event.
I saw a person who made decisions Solomon himself would have been proud of.
I saw a person who encouraged and truly wanted folks to succeed and did his best (within the parameters of what he was required to work within) to see everyone had equal chances to succeed (if they did their homework and practiuced their skills).

I think the TERM "good ole boys club" has out lived itself. and no longer applies to ANY of the many workers in the AFA.

my 2 cents worth ;)
"you may not like what I say" !
-but-
"you'll never have any doubts where I stand
quote Cindy Matthews 1948-2006


I thought my life had come to a close with Cindy's passing, but there is life after death Thankyou Sharon !

Bruce Matthews
Southeast...
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RE:AFA program a failure in Vermont 25 Aug 2009 13:47 #191

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VtHS: The question on advertisers and free ads (and advertisers not knowing it was being done ...this I really find unbelievable)

Has anyone asked why such ads may have been implimented ?
Nothing like this gets done "for no reason at all."


I found the free advertising unbelievable as well. Collectively, as members, our dues go towards paying for the production of the PF which I estimated at $27,000 an issue, at 64 pages that equals around $420 per page.

I am an AFA member -- Why should I or any AFA members pay for pages in my association's magazine to host free ads for businesses to then again sell their products or services back to me?

From an ethical publishing and business standpoint -- why should one advertiser pay full price and their competitor be on the next page for FREE????? This is what has me upset as a member. I know this because when I called on these people to advertise it was hard to offer a better deal then FREE ADS!

Here are a handful the free advertisers in PF I am aware of, if you actually added up just what this small group should have paid for these ads it is a significant amount of money as some are full and 1/2 pages run in six issues:

Champion Titanium Horseshoes
Delta HorseShoe
Kentucky Horse Park
Jackson Farrier Supply in Indiana
Wagon Mound in New Mexico
Middlefork Forge
Markel Insurance

Why is this type of stuff even going on in the first place? Who in the AFA okayed such at the expense of members? Did the BoD? Did the Publisher? To me it is a really fiscally irresponsible way to run the magazine whis is one of the largest expenditures of the AFA.
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RE:AFA program a failure in Vermont 25 Aug 2009 20:42 #192

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Susan;

Congratulations on your and Andrews marriage. May you both walk through life hand in hand and always have the gleam of love in your eyes as the years roll on.

You have listed a group of non paying advertisers.

It is quite a large group, granted.

My next question is who intially set up such a situation.
Why was such a situation set up. There must have been a reason.

Was it done during Danvers and Dicks tenure or was it done during Andrews tenure ?
or was it done during Dave Fergusons tenure ?
Or did it go back further than that ???

How many different publishers have there been since the AFA stopped using the American Farriers Magazine as the official publication ?

If I recall, there were some or one publisher who started out doing the job and then quit or was fired mid stream.

Just a thought ...
What compensation was made to the advertisers who had already paid for their advertisments but didn't get it delivered ? because the magazine wasn't being published for so long ???

One last point I'd like to ask....
Andrew was the past President of the AFA.
He knows everyone and would know right off who to ask the whats and why's of this very situation, which in my mind means YOU already have access to the reason why this is happening.

It makes me wonder why you just don't tell us the reason, what ever it may be that caused this situation .

The next question is not meant to be offensive, but are you trying to cause unnecesary ripples and hard feelings and malcontent for the AFA or the powers to be ?
By only acting like the front page of the Enquirer ?

You, being a reporter and a researcher and a person who compiles information for articles and such would find all the answers to anything you were going to write about.
Yet pertaining to this, you only seem to give enough information to get folks reacting adversely.

You continue to profess your admiration and glowing interest for the AFA, yet you are seemingly working awful hard to knock the legs out from under the association.

I for one am always interested in the truth and the whole story, from both sides.
Me thinks one doth protest way to much...

my 2 cents worth ;)
"you may not like what I say" !
-but-
"you'll never have any doubts where I stand
quote Cindy Matthews 1948-2006


I thought my life had come to a close with Cindy's passing, but there is life after death Thankyou Sharon !

Bruce Matthews
Southeast...
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RE:AFA program a failure in Vermont 25 Aug 2009 20:53 #193

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I have to agree from a business standpoint for a non profit organization it seems quite irresponsible and one would think that if enough members knew of these problems that some one would have the common sense to contact the Kentucky State Attorney Generals office or the Kentucky Secretary of States office lodge a formal complaint and try to get an audit.

(This paragraph removed because frankly, it suggested allegations that are beyond reasonable from the facts known.)

Have the AFA members the rank and file members ever been privy to this info or is it like the Walt Taylor manifesto it is never supposed to see the light of day?

JD
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RE:AFA program a failure in Vermont 25 Aug 2009 21:35 #194

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JD Sawyer in gray

I have to agree from a business standpoint for a non profit organization it seems quite irresponsible and one would think that if enough members knew of these problems that some one would have the common sense to contact the Kentucky State Attorney Generals office or the Kentucky Secretary of States office lodge a formal complaint and try to get an audit.

(This paragraph removed because frankly, it suggested allegations that are beyond reasonable from the facts known.)

Have the AFA members the rank and file members ever been privy to this info or is it like the Walt Taylor manifesto it is never supposed to see the light of day?


Without comment on the advisability of contacting the KY AG's office or the existence of an alleged Walt Taylor manifesto, given the vitriolic muckraking contained in Susan's recent posts, I think it's important to remember there are two sides to every story. Could this recent spate of venom possibly be related to the fact that the AFA sent her packing? Could her allegations and airing of the AFA's dirty laundry possibly be related to a desire for a little payback? It's said that hell has no fury like a woman scorned - and it appears whoever made that observation was an astute observer of the human comedy. :)
Tom Stovall, CJF
"The only foolish question is the one left unasked."
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RE:AFA program a failure in Vermont 25 Aug 2009 21:51 #195

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Tom is "airing Dirty Laundry " the best term of describing
the "image of dirty laundry"that Susan is trying to imply ?

We don't know yet if it was a bad decision made by some folks or whether it was a good business decision.

my 2 cents worth ;)
"you may not like what I say" !
-but-
"you'll never have any doubts where I stand
quote Cindy Matthews 1948-2006


I thought my life had come to a close with Cindy's passing, but there is life after death Thankyou Sharon !

Bruce Matthews
Southeast...
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