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TOPIC: Re: Falling on my sword

Re: Falling on my sword 09 Jul 2009 02:17 #1

  • anvilsteve
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After thoroughly reviewing all the posts by George Geist in the thread "Organizations-spin off from WCB" I am compelled to answer his slanderous remarks about me and my relatioship with Mustad and the AFA. My name was mentioned many times and the assumptions and false information George has disseminated here must be addressed.

First of all George stated that I have "fallen on my sword in" these forums defending Mustad. The modern definition of falling on one's sword is to take responsibility for the actions of others. I have never taken responsibility for anything that Mustad has done, but I have clarified false information and explained exactly how and why certain events have happened. For example I had a discussion with Mr Stovall on this forum last year about the Mustad/ Capewell aquisition. It was a real privelage to spar with Mr. Stovall, who is a real and honorable gentleman, and a treat to listen to. Not so for you George.

The old definition of falling on one's sword is commit suicide to avoid the consequences of failure. My continued responses to false information spread by people like George Geist, obviously shows that I am not about to fall on my sword, but sharpen it up and look for a place to stick it.

Mr Geist has made many assumptions about me that are quite wrong. Instead of accusing me of using my AFA position as a Board Member to help Mustad do their "dirty deeds", let's see some proof. Otherwise this forum looks like those newspapers in the supermarket that claim Elvis was a Martian.

My resume as a farrier, AFA member, Mustad consultant, and horseman, is an open book. I am willing to compare it to yours, George, on any level. I have addressed some of your eroneous statements on the other thread. Someone on the other thread noted that your glass is always half empty, which is obvious to us all. If you have any specific questions about my relationship with Mustad and the AFA I will be happy to answer them.

Thank you Danvers for covering my back when I was not aware this was happening.

I believe, George needs to back up his accusations about me or apologize to me on this forum. Are you a little boy with a computer and too much time or an honest man? What say you, George?

Steve Kraus, CJF
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RE:Re: Falling on my sword 10 Jul 2009 20:03 #2

  • tbloomer
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anvilsteve wrote:
. . . Otherwise this forum looks like those newspapers in the supermarket that claim Elvis was a Martian.
Definately not true. OTOH, I'm certain that Miles Davis was from another planet. Way too innovative for a mere earthling.

Yes Baron I know . . . but I didn't start this irresistable tangent into the history of dead American musicians. OTOH, Elvis' resume as an artist compared to Miles Davis . . . snort, ain't even close. :rolleyes:
Tom Bloomer
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Here's the deal. I'm trying to keep it simple.
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RE:Re: Falling on my sword 10 Jul 2009 22:43 #3

  • Tom Stovall CJF
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tbloomer in gray

OTOH, I'm certain that Miles Davis was from another planet. Way too innovative for a mere earthling.

Speaking of innovation, ever hear of the Louvin Brothers? What Miles Davis and Ahmad Jamal are to jazz, the Louvin's unique two-part harmonies are to red-dirt gospel and bluegrass. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KhMiKeSffns&feature=related

Yes Baron I know . . . but I didn't start this irresistable tangent into the history of dead American musicians. OTOH, Elvis' resume as an artist compared to Miles Davis . . . snort, ain't even close. :rolleyes:

The old blind fellow singing a capella gospel with couple of kids is typical of the Louvin's influence on contemporary gospel and bluegrass. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRGxbFmIni4

Folks like this will make you ask, "Elvis who?" :)
Tom Stovall, CJF
"The only foolish question is the one left unasked."
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RE:Re: Falling on my sword 11 Jul 2009 01:22 #4

  • Guy_Buck
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Mr Stovall, I have to sit down and have a drink with you sometime. Your Louvin Brothers post just lead to an hour of Bluegrass and Country music, every thing from Hank, Kieth Whitley, Vern Gosdin and plenty of others.
Sorry Steve, don't want to side track your tread.

Guy
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RE:Re: Falling on my sword 11 Jul 2009 01:37 #5

  • anvilsteve
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That's OK Guy, I'm waiting to hear from George, so it's a good way to pass the time talking about music, in fact, the Professional Farrier magazine just published an essay that I wrote comparing good farriery to classical jazz.

Steve Kraus, CFJ
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RE:Re: Falling on my sword 11 Jul 2009 01:46 #6

  • Guy_Buck
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Don't know much about classical jazz, always wanted to do an essay comparing farriery to cutting hair, but I digress.
Come on George, where are you.

Guy
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RE:Re: Falling on my sword 11 Jul 2009 13:42 #7

  • Rick Burten
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I've waited till now to add my $.02, hoping that George might respond. Since that is apparently not going to happen, here's my take on it.

Because of my prior involvement at the AFA BOD level, I've known, collegially, Mr. Kraus for quite a while. And though we often disagreed/crossed swords, I have never, as in not even once, seen him do anything like that of which Mr. Geist accuses him.

Unfortunately, reality is often nothing more than perception and thus, perception becomes , for some, reality.
Rick Burten PF

In the immortal words of Ron White: "But let me tell you something, folks: You can't fix S-tupid. There's not a pill you can take; there's not a class you can go to. S-tupid is forever."
."


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RE:Re: Falling on my sword 11 Jul 2009 14:28 #8

  • Mike Ferrara
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In one of my past lives in the corporate world, we had an ethics manual which laid out corporate policy and paid special attention to conflicts of interest. LOL, yes there were those who were apparently "above" those rules but I wasn't one of those.

Anyway, there are two things that really stick in my memory. One is that there were certain things that weren't necessarily disallowed but required higher management approval. For example, working for a supplier. A specific example would be a time when an equipment vendor who owed us equipment had a programmer with an illness that resulted in a fairly long term absence and offered me a part time position writing the software/firmware. My superiors did NOT approve and I had to turn it down. Taking the work without management approval would have been grounds for termination while having management approval would have given credence to the idea that there was no conflict of interest or that it was even the best interest of the company.

The other thing, and the big one, is that every company that I ever worked for considered the APPEARANCE of wrong doing as "wrong". No proof necessary. If it looked bad (as defined in the ethics manual), it was bad and you could be in hot water. This is important. You were required to avoid the appearance of a conflict of interest and anything that might give that appearance required prior management approval.

Daver's point about other income sources is worth considering and so is Rick's in regards to perception. However, the mere perception or appearance of a conflict of interest can cause problems. I tend to agree with those ethics manuals that I had to live with all those years and think that the appearance should be avoided or that it be cleared with interested parties in advance.

All that said, I'm not sure I see where working for a farrier supply company would create a conflict of interest for an AFA officer. The AFA doesn't procure supplies on behalf of it's members does it? By contrast, if the AFA were providing insurance, it would probably look bad for an officer to be an employee of the insurance company.
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RE:Re: Falling on my sword 11 Jul 2009 18:18 #9

  • Tom Stovall CJF
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Guy_Buck in gray

Mr Stovall, I have to sit down and have a drink with you sometime.

Mr. Buck, it would be my distinct honor and pleasure to buy the first round!

Your Louvin Brothers post just lead to an hour of Bluegrass and Country music, every thing from Hank, Kieth Whitley, Vern Gosdin and plenty of others.

I'm a fan of good music of whatever genre. I enjoy everything from the Louvin Brothers to the Allman Brothers - but I ain't much on today's "mainstream" country or pop.

Sorry Steve, don't want to side track your tread.

I don't think Mr. Kraus will mind - if he had one more "s" on his family name I'd be asking him if he's kin to Allison Krauss, the lady who has done a lot to bring bluegrass out of the woodshed and into the parlor without losing touch with her roots. :)
Tom Stovall, CJF
"The only foolish question is the one left unasked."
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RE:Re: Falling on my sword 11 Jul 2009 18:37 #10

  • solidrockshoer
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Yonder Mountain string Band is pretty good!
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RE:Re: Falling on my sword 11 Jul 2009 20:45 #11

  • anvilsteve
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Thank you Rick for your above .02 cents. Mike does have a point though, I will concede that appearance can cause problems. How ever in a volunteer organization like the AFA, there may be a need to step up, like I have done to help, because I can. The fact that I have worked for Mustad for all these years puts me in a better position to help the AFA. Those that know me ( which George does not), I would hope would perceive my intentions like Rick does. I will repeat, if there is ever an issue with the AFA where there might be a conflict of interest in regards to my relationship with Mustad, I would recuse myself without giving it a second thought. If you really want to know how I feel about the AFA, please read the essay just published in The Professional Farrier Magazine. I wrote it from the heart one night without much editing. I will however, always be willing to clarify any false statements in regards to Mustad Hoofcare and the history that I have experienced with them. All one needs to to is just ask.

Regards,

Steve Kraus, CJF
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RE:Re: Falling on my sword 11 Jul 2009 20:51 #12

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Mr. Stovall-

Unfortunately, I am no relation to Allison. It would be impossible for a lady with a voice as sweet as hers to have any DNA in common with me! I am still looking forward to having ribs with you sometime.

Steve Kraus, CJF
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RE:Re: Falling on my sword 12 Jul 2009 02:13 #13

  • Tom Stovall CJF
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anvilsteve in gray

Unfortunately, I am no relation to Allison. It would be impossible for a lady with a voice as sweet as hers to have any DNA in common with me!

C'est la vie. Nobody in my family can carry a tune in a bucket, but we listen good and all of us can dance well enough to suit ourselves. :)

I am still looking forward to having ribs with you sometime.

If you're ever in Central Texas, the best pork ribs on the planet are at the City Meat Market at the intersection of US 290 and US 77 in downtown Giddings, Texas. My treat, all you can eat! :)

Meanwhile, here comes the long, slow, curve that looks like a watermelon, but breaks off into the dirt: I have a favor to ask. If it's not too much trouble, would you please send me a copy of your essay? If the word count thing gets you on this venue, please send it to This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.. I don't get any farrier publications, but I'd sure like to read your essay. Any format - .txt, .doc, .pdf, etc. - will work.

Thanks.

Tom
Tom Stovall, CJF
"The only foolish question is the one left unasked."
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RE:Re: Falling on my sword 13 Jul 2009 10:44 #14

  • George Geist
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anvilsteve wrote:
After thoroughly reviewing all the posts by George Geist in the thread "Organizations-spin off from WCB" I am compelled to answer his slanderous remarks about me and my relatioship with Mustad and the AFA.
Slanderous? Is it slanderous to bring up your ties with Mustad and being an AFA officer? What is slanderous about that?
It was a real privelage to spar with Mr. Stovall, who is a real and honorable gentleman, and a treat to listen to.
On that we can certainly agree:)
Mr Geist has made many assumptions about me that are quite wrong. Instead of accusing me of using my AFA position as a Board Member to help Mustad do their "dirty deeds", let's see some proof. Otherwise this forum looks like those newspapers in the supermarket that claim Elvis was a Martian.
I have no knowledge of Mustad being engaged in any "dirty deeds". Do you?
Thank you Danvers for covering my back when I was not aware this was happening.

I believe, George needs to back up his accusations about me or apologize to me on this forum. Are you a little boy with a computer and too much time or an honest man? What say you, George?

Steve Kraus, CJF
I've pointed out that you hold an officer position in the AFA as well as doing whatever it is that you do with Mustad. Keep in mind here that we're discussing politics and is nothing personal. Truth of the matter is I don't know you from a bag of apples and wouldn't recognize you if I saw you on the street. Danvers is a stand up guy and if he says you're ok his word is good enough for me as to your fine character.

Rick Burten wrote:
I've waited till now to add my $.02, hoping that George might respond. Since that is apparently not going to happen, here's my take on it.
A little patience Rick, a few of us do in fact have a life.
Because of my prior involvement at the AFA BOD level, I've known, collegially, Mr. Kraus for quite a while. And though we often disagreed/crossed swords, I have never, as in not even once, seen him do anything like that of which Mr. Geist accuses him.
I've accused him of nothing. I've pointed out his officer position with that association and his job for that company which can create the perception of serving 2 masters.
Unfortunately, reality is often nothing more than perception and thus, perception becomes , for some, reality.
Precisely.

Mike Ferrara wrote:
Daver's point about other income sources is worth considering and so is Rick's in regards to perception. However, the mere perception or appearance of a conflict of interest can cause problems. I tend to agree with those ethics manuals that I had to live with all those years and think that the appearance should be avoided or that it be cleared with interested parties in advance.
This is why when Rick and Ron were running for their respective offices I was the one who brought up this question to both of them. Remember that? At that time both were in favor of the adoption of such an ethics policy. Unfortunately, I don't recall any of the other candidate(s) addressing the issue but to be fair I'll go back and check the archives on that when I get time.

anvilsteve wrote:
Thank you Rick for your above .02 cents. Mike does have a point though, I will concede that appearance can cause problems. How ever in a volunteer organization like the AFA, there may be a need to step up, like I have done to help, because I can. The fact that I have worked for Mustad for all these years puts me in a better position to help the AFA. Those that know me ( which George does not), I would hope would perceive my intentions like Rick does.
As pointed out before you're correct on this. Never saw you or talked to you.
I will repeat, if there is ever an issue with the AFA where there might be a conflict of interest in regards to my relationship with Mustad, I would recuse myself without giving it a second thought.
That is certainly good to hear. Would you require that of all officers who were in a similar situation if you had any say about it?
George
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RE:Re: Falling on my sword 14 Jul 2009 02:29 #15

  • anvilsteve
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George-

Actually the word should be libel, because it is written not spoken.
George in red

It's all about conflicts. When Mustad destroyed Simonds rasp company and threw hundreds of Americans out of work I and a few others found that reprehensible. Steve Kraus came on this website defending it and literally falling on his sword over anything Mustad did. I know he was looking to hold some kind of office did he get elected? If so who's interests do you think a man like that will look to?


You are implying that I wanted to get elected to the AFA BoD to look out
for Mustad's interests. This is about as far from the truth as you can get, as others have pointed out. Those who elected me knew of my association with Mustad and my record shows how I have used that relationship to help farriers.

I just think it is wrong for you to assume most of what you have posted about me and Mustad's history without knowing all the facts. You have posted your opinion without knowing the full truth, then you disagree with me when I present the facts. Furthermore, you assume that Mustad's role in the industry is to exploit the farriers. Remember, in this country you are innocent until proven guilty. (except for the IRS!).

And I do take this personally because I have endeavored to be an honest person, help the AFA, and use my position with Mustad for the benefit of farriers.

As I have pointed out already, I would answer any questions about my relationship with Mustad and the 33 years that I have been involved with them. Currently, I have been working for them longer then any other employees, so I have been an actual participant in most of what has transpired. And yes I would expect other AFA Board members to recuse themselves from any issues that would be a conflict of interest.

Steve Kraus, CFJ
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