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TOPIC: Certification on AFA

RE:Certification on AFA 19 Apr 2009 14:25 #16

  • Rick Burten
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Just passin through~ wrote:
Susan,if a farrier joins the AFA,and is a journeyman before he joins,does he have to take the test to prove it?
S/he not only must take the test, s/he must pass it. :)
Rick Burten PF

In the immortal words of Ron White: "But let me tell you something, folks: You can't fix S-tupid. There's not a pill you can take; there's not a class you can go to. S-tupid is forever."
."


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RE:Certification on AFA 19 Apr 2009 14:35 #17

  • Rick Burten
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unbridled wrote:
On another interesting note, the AFA owns the trademarked name PROFESSIONAL FARRIER yet when one types in www.ProfessionalFarrier.com it goes straight to the AFJ.
1. Was the name trademarked prior to the domain name being established by the AFJ?
2. If it was, and given Mr. Kraus' latest statements, why hasn't the AFA done something about it?
Apparently the AFA is not that concerned about "protecting" its trademarks because if they were why do the allow Lessiter Publications to own the domain of their trademarked name
So, if a non-AFA member advertises that they are a Professional Farrier, are they guilty of trademark infringement?

As I am no longer a member of the AFA, should I live in fear of retribution from the AFA when I sign my name or advertise:

"Rick Burten, PF(Professional Farrier)" ?

Should anyone else who is in the same 'state' also fear reprisal from the AFA?
Rick Burten PF

In the immortal words of Ron White: "But let me tell you something, folks: You can't fix S-tupid. There's not a pill you can take; there's not a class you can go to. S-tupid is forever."
."


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RE:Certification on AFA 19 Apr 2009 14:42 #18

  • Rick Burten
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anvilsteve wrote:
I hope this satisfies most of you, I am sure Rick will find something to pick apart.
Steve Kraus, CJF
Yep. So, from now on, the AFA is recommending/requiring that all of its credentialed farriers add "AFA' in front of their credential appellation rather than as has always been the practice of just using the appellation(CF,CTF,CJF, whatever)?

Hmm, maybe the reason the AFA has allowed the AFJ and individual farriers to use the term/appellation Professional Farrier/PF, is because unless said publication/individual puts "AFA" in front of the other term, said entity is not in violation of any trademark laws. LOL!.

Rick Burten, PF
Rick Burten PF

In the immortal words of Ron White: "But let me tell you something, folks: You can't fix S-tupid. There's not a pill you can take; there's not a class you can go to. S-tupid is forever."
."


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RE:Certification on AFA 19 Apr 2009 17:18 #19

  • unbridled
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Rick -

That is a very interesting question regarding "Professional Farrier".

Here are the public facts concerning the domain name and trademark per the Who is directory and USPTO:

1) Lessiter registered the domain on Oct. 1, 2003, here is the link to verify:
http://www.networksolutions.com/whois-search/ProfessionalFarrier.com

2) The AFA filed for the name Professional Farrier on SEPT 30, 2003 on and it was registered to them on SEPT 14, 2004 it covers goods & services/magzine covering farrier industry. Here is the link to verify: http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=4009:qv556j.2.1

I don't know the legalese as to the filing date and rightful ownership, however, I find the dates of registration for the domain and trademarked name to be strangely close:cool:
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RE:Certification on AFA 19 Apr 2009 19:30 #20

  • Gary_Miller
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anvilsteve wrote:
and the AFA to keep selling our certification program to the horse public.
Steve, did I miss something. Since when did the AFA ever start selling/promoting the AFA certification to the public?
Gary Miller, PF

Ride hard, shoot straight, and always speak the truth.
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"Our level of quality is how well our eye can see it." (Eric Russell, Oct 2008, Horseshoes.com)

"Discover what it is that makes you passionate then grab a firm...
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RE:Certification on AFA 19 Apr 2009 20:55 #21

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unbridled wrote:
Rick -

That is a very interesting question regarding "Professional Farrier".

Here are the public facts concerning the domain name and trademark per the Who is directory and USPTO:

1) Lessiter registered the domain on Oct. 1, 2003,

2) The AFA filed for the name Professional Farrier on SEPT 30, 2003 on and it was registered to them on SEPT 14, 2004 it covers goods & services/magzine covering farrier industry.
unbridled wrote:
I don't know the legalese as to the filing date and rightful ownership, however, I find the dates of registration for the domain and trademarked name to be strangely close:cool:
I don't. Why? Because when you mess with the bull, you often get the horns.

Well, considering that it is, to my knowledge, not resolved that a website is considered a magazine when it doesn't promote itself as such.

It also seems to me that the AFA ought to be more concerned with the entity that ripped of the name of its magazine and started up a magazine of its own.

Of course, taking on Frank Lessiter Publications over the matter would take bigger cojones and intestinal fortitude than has thus far been manifested by the AFA.

Rick Burten, PF
Rick Burten PF

In the immortal words of Ron White: "But let me tell you something, folks: You can't fix S-tupid. There's not a pill you can take; there's not a class you can go to. S-tupid is forever."
."


Je pense donc je suis
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RE:Certification on AFA 20 Apr 2009 18:26 #22

Rick Burten wrote:
I don't. Why? Because when you mess with the bull, you often get the horns.

Well, considering that it is, to my knowledge, not resolved that a website is considered a magazine when it doesn't promote itself as such.

It also seems to me that the AFA ought to be more concerned with the entity that ripped of the name of its magazine and started up a magazine of its own.

Of course, taking on Frank Lessiter Publications over the matter would take bigger cojones and intestinal fortitude than has thus far been manifested by the AFA.

Rick Burten, PF

Rick what does PF stand for?
Phil Armitage, CF
AFA member 7480

"Anyone who proposes to do good must not expect people to roll stones out of his way, but must accept his lot calmly if they even roll a few more upon it." Albert Schweitzer
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RE:Certification on AFA 20 Apr 2009 22:01 #23

  • Gary Hill
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Pretty sure he means , "Professional Farrier" ? Has a nice ring to it!
"As I see it, winners get the money - while losers talk of "individual goals" and similar stuff." Tom Stovall
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RE:Certification on AFA 21 Apr 2009 01:08 #24

  • Rick Burten
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Gary Hill wrote:
Pretty sure he means , "Professional Farrier" ? Has a nice ring to it!
Precisely. :)
Rick Burten PF

In the immortal words of Ron White: "But let me tell you something, folks: You can't fix S-tupid. There's not a pill you can take; there's not a class you can go to. S-tupid is forever."
."


Je pense donc je suis
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RE:Certification on AFA 21 Apr 2009 01:13 #25

  • unbridled
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Exactly what does that mean? :cool:
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RE:Certification on AFA 21 Apr 2009 02:33 #26

  • Gary Hill
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Well according to Webster.
professional
3 entries found.

1professional (adjective)

2professional (noun)

professional corporation




Main Entry: 1pro·fes·sion·al
Pronunciation: \prə-ˈfesh-nəl, -ˈfe-shə-nəl\
Function: adjective
Date: 1606
1 a: of, relating to, or characteristic of a profession b: engaged in one of the learned professions c (1): characterized by or conforming to the technical or ethical standards of a profession (2): exhibiting a courteous, conscientious, and generally businesslike manner in the workplace
2 a: participating for gain or livelihood in an activity or field of endeavor often engaged in by amateurs <a professional golfer> b: having a particular profession as a permanent career <a professional soldier> c: engaged in by persons receiving financial return <professional football>
3: following a line of conduct as though it were a profession <a professional patriot>
— pro·fes·sion·al·ly adverb


Personally, I think #1 hits the mark.
"As I see it, winners get the money - while losers talk of "individual goals" and similar stuff." Tom Stovall
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RE:Certification on AFA 21 Apr 2009 14:26 #27

  • Rick Burten
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unbridled wrote:
Exactly what does that mean? :cool:
Ask Andrew. If he can't give you a satisfactory answer then perhaps he should resign as immediate past president of the AFA and also decline his nomination to be the next vice president of the AFA.

When you get his definition, post it here so we can all see it.

Rick Burten, PF
Rick Burten PF

In the immortal words of Ron White: "But let me tell you something, folks: You can't fix S-tupid. There's not a pill you can take; there's not a class you can go to. S-tupid is forever."
."


Je pense donc je suis
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RE:Certification on AFA 21 Apr 2009 15:45 #28

unbridled wrote:
Rick -That is a very interesting question regarding "Professional Farrier".
unbridled wrote:

Here are the public facts concerning the domain name and trademark per the Who is directory and USPTO:

1) Lessiter registered the domain on Oct. 1, 2003, here is the link to verify:
http://www.networksolutions.com/whois-search/ProfessionalFarrier.com

2) The AFA filed for the name Professional Farrier on SEPT 30, 2003 on and it was registered to them on SEPT 14, 2004 it covers goods & services/magzine covering farrier industry. Here is the link to verify: http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=4009:qv556j.2.1

I don't know the legalese as to the filing date and rightful ownership, however, I find the dates of registration for the domain and trademarked name to be strangely close

Trademarks are different from Patents, whereas patent registration is KING.

Trademarks although can be registered with governments,
as in the USA, federally and state,
ownership relies on use and public recognition,
if it can be established that, that was in place before a registration.


So eg. Lessiter purchased the domain name ProfessionalFarrier.com
and used it from day one. The public now sees a relationship between the two,
and has that association in their mind.

In order to tell the public that they OWN the trademark,
Lessiter would need to display “ TM ” beside all uses of the name.

Although the AFA filed a Trademark application 1/2 month prior,
it wasn't till a year later that it received the right to use “ Professional Farrier ® ”.
This is only to say that the AFA was the first to register the Trademark.

A “ TM “ can out weigh a “ ® ”.

Problem for Lessiter is, when the domain name ProfessionalFarrier.com is used
it redirects to http://www.lesspub.com/cgi-bin/site.pl?afj/index
and there are no public displayed “ TM “.

Conclusion:
In a court of law the AFA could demand that Lessiter not use the title
in specific ways, but Lessiter owns the domain name and can use it
as long as it is owned by them.

MR. Gough:
If I had a Horseshoe that you needed,
and you had a horseshoe that I needed,

Would you trade Mark. :D
Bradley SaintJohn

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RE:Certification on AFA 22 Apr 2009 12:40 #29

Bradley's post is about as good a definition of the process as one can get. However one thing is left out. Trademarks must be defended in total. You can not set back and allow any infringement at all. If you do you can loose your rights to the trademark.

When over a year ago, as Chair of the IT Committee, I suggested to the EC that the AFA should enforce their trademarks I was ignored. Since the AFA has yet to demonstrate the corporate will to attack trademark infringement in a professional and legal manner I would wonder if it is not already to late to assert their trademark rights.
Ronald E. Kramedjian, RJF

Visit the Guild of Professional Farriers, Inc. Website

"What is popular is not always right; what is right is not always popular." Unknown

"In matters of style swim with the current; In matters of principle, stand like a...
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