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TOPIC: Certification on AFA

Certification on AFA 15 Apr 2009 17:56 #1

Was talking to someone about AFA certification; and he dropped a bomb on me
that some guys are just members who took the test, but failed; or didn't take it at all.
They get that AFA member sticker on their trucks and put CF next to their name, when they shouldn't; and passing themselves off as being certified; because they are members of the AFA.

WOW!........how should that be addressed; especially when there is a big taboo now on certifications VS licencing agruments now?
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RE:Certification on AFA 15 Apr 2009 18:28 #2

  • Mike Ferrara
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"AFA CF" is an AFA thing...go figure. If it's being done, it's up to the AFA to adress it...or not.
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RE:Certification on AFA 15 Apr 2009 18:34 #3

  • Rick Burten
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Mike Ferrara wrote:
"AFA CF" is an AFA thing...go figure. If it's being done, it's up to the AFA to adress it...or not.
Don't hold your breath.......
Rick Burten PF

In the immortal words of Ron White: "But let me tell you something, folks: You can't fix S-tupid. There's not a pill you can take; there's not a class you can go to. S-tupid is forever."
."


Je pense donc je suis
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RE:Certification on AFA 15 Apr 2009 19:38 #4

Farriers that do that are only cheating themselves.
Phil Armitage, CF
AFA member 7480

"Anyone who proposes to do good must not expect people to roll stones out of his way, but must accept his lot calmly if they even roll a few more upon it." Albert Schweitzer
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RE:Certification on AFA 17 Apr 2009 02:05 #5

  • anvilsteve
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It will be looked into, but there isn't much legally that the AFA can do about it.

Steve Kraus
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RE:Certification on AFA 17 Apr 2009 02:28 #6

Steve,

Is this your educated legal opinion?

If it is, I have to ask why did the AFA spend the time effort and energy to trademark the AFA CF?

Funny, just after I joined one of the gents in my neck of the woods was advertising himself as a Certified Farrier. I let Brian Quinsy know about it. Brian jumped the guy and put the fear of god into him and the guy stopped doing so. In fact he just flat dropped of the face of the farrier world shortly after. Amazing what an Executive Director that actually knows something can do. Any progress on hiring a new Executive Director?
Ronald E. Kramedjian, RJF

Visit the Guild of Professional Farriers, Inc. Website

"What is popular is not always right; what is right is not always popular." Unknown

"In matters of style swim with the current; In matters of principle, stand like a...
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RE:Certification on AFA 17 Apr 2009 10:56 #7

  • Rick Burten
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anvilsteve wrote:
It will be looked into, but there isn't much legally that the AFA can do about it.

Steve Kraus
If that is the legal counsel the AFA is receiving from its corporate attorneys, then the AFA needs new, competent, legal help.
Rick Burten PF

In the immortal words of Ron White: "But let me tell you something, folks: You can't fix S-tupid. There's not a pill you can take; there's not a class you can go to. S-tupid is forever."
."


Je pense donc je suis
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RE:Certification on AFA 18 Apr 2009 02:52 #8

  • vthorseshoe
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False representation is the same as tellng a Lie, It will eventually come full circle and bite you right in the butt.

If a farrier has to lie about being certified then he hasn't any self esteam or pride in his own abilities.
If a farrier has to sell himself with falsehoods then he is destinied to fail long before he starts. Not only in being a farrier but in all of life itself.

When his peers learn of his attempted deception does anyone truly believe he will have their admiration and trust or will he/she be looked at with a shake of the head and a walk away.
Discovery will make them and island among themself..

There is an old saying my father taught me;

I have no use for a lier or a thief, but at least I know a thief will steal. A lier I can Never trust.
Well, I take it further than my father did;
A lier IS A THIEF also, He/she is stealing my trust, and I have NO use for either....

my 2 cents worth ;)
"you may not like what I say" !
-but-
"you'll never have any doubts where I stand
quote Cindy Matthews 1948-2006


I thought my life had come to a close with Cindy's passing, but there is life after death Thankyou Sharon !

Bruce Matthews
Southeast...
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RE:Certification on AFA 18 Apr 2009 04:18 #9

Here, Here, Well put Bruce Matthews, one is only cheating themselves, I was proud when I passed my CF test.



The Village Smith Farrier
Rick Barnard AFA#1363
Thousand Oaks, ca.
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RE:Certification on AFA 19 Apr 2009 00:17 #10

  • anvilsteve
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I spoke too soon in regards to what the AFA will do about someone using an AFA title without earning it, for that I apologize.
The procedure is that anyone finding someone using an AFA title that is suspect, first check with the office to make sure. If you actually can confirm this person is using an AFA title that is not legitimate, contact the AFA with that persons name and address as well as your name and address in writing ( you must sign your name).
I am looking into what the procedure from there is and I'll report my findings when I know. Hope this satisfies.

Steve Kraus, CFJ
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RE:Certification on AFA 19 Apr 2009 00:24 #11

  • unbridled
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The fact of the matter is a farrier can be an AFA member and be a "certified farrier" -- this is does not mean that the farrier is an AFA CF it does not necessarily mean the farrier is misrepresenting him/herself because he or she could be an AFA member and be certified by another organization. The same applies for CJF.
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RE:Certification on AFA 19 Apr 2009 01:16 #12

unbridled wrote:
The fact of the matter is a farrier can be an AFA member and be a "certified farrier" -- this is does not mean that the farrier is an AFA CF it does not necessarily mean the farrier is misrepresenting him/herself because he or she could be an AFA member and be certified by another organization. The same applies for CJF.

Susan,if a farrier joins the AFA,and is a journeyman before he joins,does he have to take the test to prove it? To join the machinist union and you go in as a journeyman,you are classed a journeyman untill somebody complains that you aren't.
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RE:Certification on AFA 19 Apr 2009 12:20 #13

  • Rick Burten
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unbridled wrote:
The fact of the matter is a farrier can be an AFA member and be a "certified farrier" -- this is does not mean that the farrier is an AFA CF it does not necessarily mean the farrier is misrepresenting him/herself because he or she could be an AFA member and be certified by another organization. The same applies for CJF.
Really? Then why did the AFA go the the trouble to register and trademark the terms "CF, CJF, etc? So now, if some stalwart advertises that they are "Billy Bob, CF" but have not passed the AFA certifications, they are 'off the hook' and can legally continue to represent themselves in that manner?

If so, then the AFA has yet again shot itself in the foot and demeaned, disrespected and discounted its own certification process. No wonder the horse owning public couldn't care less......

OTOH, the GPF doesn't stand for such shenanigans regarding its credentials. Nor do I believe that the BWFA or the ELPO organizations would allow it.
Rick Burten PF

In the immortal words of Ron White: "But let me tell you something, folks: You can't fix S-tupid. There's not a pill you can take; there's not a class you can go to. S-tupid is forever."
."


Je pense donc je suis
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RE:Certification on AFA 19 Apr 2009 13:35 #14

  • anvilsteve
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Illegetimate AFA titles, con't:

The next step from my last post on this subject is that once the individual, that is not AFA certified is properly reported to the AFA. that person is contacted and invited to join the AFA, stop using it, and actually earn the title. If that person refuses the offer and refuses to stop using the illegitimate title, there will be a legal action taken against them for trademark and copyright infringement.

So, if anyone come accross a farrier who falsely claims an AFA Certified title, you have the tools to do something about it. This only applies to "AFA Certified".
If someone claims certified or journeyman without AFA prefix I think it is up to the horseowner to learn the difference and the AFA to keep selling our certification program to the horse public. What does certified really mean, without a legitimate organization in front of it and standing behind it. Horse owners or farriers need to ask certified by who and then find out what that represents.

I hope this satisfies most of you, I am sure Rick will find something to pick apart.

Steve Kraus, CJF
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RE:Certification on AFA 19 Apr 2009 13:40 #15

  • unbridled
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Rick,

The AFA registered those names ONLY in conjunction with the AFA full name or initials. Therefore one can be a member of the AFA and Certified by another organization. A Certified Farrier can be a member of the AFA (unless the AFA refuses their membership) and the AFA can't do a thing about it unless the farrier misreprensents that he/she is an "AFA CJF" "AFA Certified Farrier". It is misleading and confusing to the general public.

On another interesting note, the AFA owns the trademarked name PROFESSIONAL FARRIER yet when one types in www.ProfessionalFarrier.com it goes straight to the AFJ.

Apparently the AFA is not that concerned about "protecting" its trademarks because if they were why do the allow Lessiter Publications to own the domain of their trademarked name:confused:
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