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TOPIC: Improvement Clinics held for all organizations

Improvement Clinics held for all organizations 17 Mar 2009 19:01 #1

What I would like to see -- is more on clinics held by the AFA, Guild, BWFA, IUJH is "farriers helping other farriers" improving their skill levels higher like a combination of a hammer-in and psuedo certication clinic.

Not so much on sit down lecture; but a hands on approach with clinicians, testers, and examiners going around and helping and discussing on how & why's and showing farriers what they need to know on different horses brought in for shoeing and forging techniques that would benefit everyone's education.
A laid back approach in where everyone goes at their own pace and is made to feel comfortable at their own skill level, and be able to develop new skills and new approaches to their shoeing.

This I believe would be better than testing (certification) all of the time. Testing makes people nervous, and if you want people to learn and go forward; than you have to make them feel welcomed and comfortable.:)

When this is acheived; then maybe farriers will be more accepting that certification will be "relevant" to them!!!!!!!!!

It's just a though from a lady's point of view.

What say you...............................Linda Marie, IUJH:eek:
________
LovelyWendie99
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RE:Improvement Clinics held for all organizations 17 Mar 2009 21:04 #2

Linda,

You attended one last Otober.

Wellshodhorses Practical Farriery Workshop 2008

This year will blow last year out of the water.

Put it in your calender.
Brian R. Purrington
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www.wellshodhorses.com
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RE:Improvement Clinics held for all organizations 17 Mar 2009 21:24 #3

A few years ago, Jaye came up to Ohio and we had one of the best clinics I've ever been to. We went over xrays in the morning, then brought out some horses for observation and shoeing. Those that wanted to get dirty and shoe some did, and those that wanted to sit and watch got to sit and watch. No one was judging anything, and almost everyone walked away learing something.

It was also sponsored by a chapter of the AFA, Jaye was kind enough to volunteer his appearance and that was what got that chapter off it's feet.

The problem isn't with the clinics themselves, the problem is that most of the people that are willing to get together and do something all have the same interests, so those that want to forge, get a clinic together on forging. Those that want to complain about stuff and talk theory behind their computer complain about the forging clinics and the world continues to spin.
"Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects." Will Rogers

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBimQu6Pxxs
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RE:Improvement Clinics held for all organizations 18 Mar 2009 02:10 #4

  • Gary_Miller
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Linda the point I was trying to make on the other tread was this. Besides the AFA convention, Pre-certification clinics, and horse owner clinics. The AFA does not put on clinics, they don't sponser them and they don't supply clinitions. The local associations are the ones who do this, and some people feel that because many local association are chapters or that many of the clinitions are past members of the AFA Team. This means the AFA put on the clinic. That is simply not so local people find the clintion, advertise the clinic and pay for the clinic, the AFA does nothing.

That being said, I have attended several clinics since I started shoeing. While I have learned alot from each clinic. Most of the clintions seem to spend sometime talking about shoeing a horse. But then they end up being mostly forging clinics. I have grown tired of forging clinics and have a great desire to learn other things related to ferrier work.

The best clinics I have been to are the ones where there was more discussion on the science of horse shoeing and less on the forging side of things. Its been these types of clinics where I have learned the most that has been benifical to me and the horses I care for.

Last weekend our association, the Farriers of Idaho Guild (FIG), had a clinic where we went to the local Equine Hospital and had discussions and work shops with the local vets on therapeutic shoeing. We reviewed X-rays and discussed the problems with the horse. Discussed the vets diagnoses, and recommendations on a shoeing protocol. Then we each built a shoe to fit the vets prescription. The best part of the whole clinic was Saturday morning where we sat and listened to a lecture on laminates, heel pain, ect.. It was very informative and I learned more from this one clinic than I have from all the ones where the clintion was someone from the AFA Team.
Gary Miller, PF

Ride hard, shoot straight, and always speak the truth.
Gunfighter Motto

"Our level of quality is how well our eye can see it." (Eric Russell, Oct 2008, Horseshoes.com)

"Discover what it is that makes you passionate then grab a firm...
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RE:Improvement Clinics held for all organizations 18 Mar 2009 04:46 #5

  • Mark_Gough
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Gary_Miller wrote:
Linda the point I was trying to make on the other tread was this. Besides the AFA convention, Pre-certification clinics, and horse owner clinics. The AFA does not put on clinics, they don't sponser them and they don't supply clinitions. The local associations are the ones who do this, and some people feel that because many local association are chapters or that many of the clinitions are past members of the AFA Team. This means the AFA put on the clinic. That is simply not so local people find the clintion, advertise the clinic and pay for the clinic, the AFA does nothing.

While I do understand your point Gary, I have to disagree on some of the content.

I sponsored a clinic at my facility last fall. The AFA pitched in and made it even better. Two AFA reps, Thom Gabel and Doug Hopper, setup a table with handouts and discussion for any and all interested. They represented both the local AFA chapter and the national organization. Racheal Heighton, The AFA office manager, shipped me a box of AFA magazines and bumper stickers to hand out to attending farriers and horse owners. No charge. Danvers Child showed up, free gratus, and provided a great lecture and acted in a clinician capacity covering several areas well beyond forging, then helped me and others with practical anvil work and shoeing. Rick Burton and Mark Sullivan helped with the practical aspects of the clinic, trimming and shoeing horses. Bruce Matthews was the major contributing clinician and provided two days of demonstrations, none of which had anything to do with forging.

My point is, the AFA did pitch in and contributed to make the clinic a huge success. While we lit a forge to get a test case horse shod, there were lots of others topics covered. This wasn't an AFA sponsored clinic, but the quality of the clinic was vastly enhanced by help from the AFA and specifically, some of it's leading members.

The two day clinic ultimately included aspects of equine training and management, farrier/customer relationships, mapping and trimming to balance, shoeing, forging, anvil practice and AFA participation and membership.

Perhaps the difference was the inclusion of horse owners in this clinic. The mix of owners and farriers seemed to create a much broader opportunity for discussion topics on several levels.

In this case, it would completely incorrect to suggest that the "AFA does nothing". The AFA was front and center in every aspect of this particular, non-AFA sponsored clinic.

The only thing I had to do to acquire so much help from the AFA was to simply ask them.

Respectfully,

Mark
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RE:Improvement Clinics held for all organizations 18 Mar 2009 05:07 #6

  • Gary_Miller
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Mark_Gough wrote:
While I do understand your point Gary, I have to disagree on some of the content.
That's OK, disagreement is what makes for a good discussion. We all see things differentially.

Mark_Gough wrote:
The only thing I had to do to acquire so much help from the AFA was to simply ask them.
I was not insinuating that you would not get help if you asked. Only that the AFA does not sponsor clinic local organizations sponsor them.
Gary Miller, PF

Ride hard, shoot straight, and always speak the truth.
Gunfighter Motto

"Our level of quality is how well our eye can see it." (Eric Russell, Oct 2008, Horseshoes.com)

"Discover what it is that makes you passionate then grab a firm...
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RE:Improvement Clinics held for all organizations 18 Mar 2009 05:43 #7

  • vthorseshoe
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Gary is correct that the AFA does not sponsor clinics.
The Chapters and Assoc. do this.

Mark is correct that the AFA is a source of information, material, and other help such as;

They have a list of clinicians, mostly retired farriers who volunteer their time.
These "over the Hill Gang" The Anvil Club (or something like that) have their names on a list in the office of the AFA and are available for clinics.
These are folks who have forgotten more than we have learned.

The AFA has insurance for Chapters that covers Liability wants to put on a clinic. (A benifit of being a Chapter)

I will stop here, but the list does go on.

my 2 cents worth ;)
"you may not like what I say" !
-but-
"you'll never have any doubts where I stand
quote Cindy Matthews 1948-2006


I thought my life had come to a close with Cindy's passing, but there is life after death Thankyou Sharon !

Bruce Matthews
Southeast...
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RE:Improvement Clinics held for all organizations 18 Mar 2009 12:45 #8

Brian Purrington wrote:
Linda,

You attended one last Otober.

Wellshodhorses Practical Farriery Workshop 2008

This year will blow last year out of the water.

Put it in your calender.



Yes, that was the best clinic held so far:), including the ones at New Bolton.

When is the next one, date, time, ect. I want to attend next one.
It was great, and I really learned a lot in those few hours. We need more of this.
________
Justin Bieber
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RE:Improvement Clinics held for all organizations 18 Mar 2009 12:54 #9

I meant like a hybrid type of clinic were all the groups, chapters get together and shoe and forge, and work with each other.
________
Uggs
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RE:Improvement Clinics held for all organizations 18 Mar 2009 21:37 #10

  • Dan Puckett
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I took Mitch Taylor's Precertification clinic in October while I was a student. It was basically like ladyblacksmith said she wanted- everyone progressed at their own pace, worked on their weak points, improved their strong points, etc. I learned more in that week than the prior month of class work. When Saturday rolled around, each tester went over the test takers' shoe jobs and discussed what was done right, wrong, what would pass, what didnt, etc. It was why I didnt get to go til 2:30, when I was scheduled for ~11:45- the testers wanted to make sure everyone knew what was expected of them before the next person went. Even the guys who passed (of which I was not one) discussed their work.

I think the reason people get nervous testing is psychological- they are so afraid of failing that they end up doing so. I just go in and do it, always have. It is nothing to get nervous about, IMO. Someone else is going to be judging your shoeing, just like every day in your business. Only these people know a thing or two about shoeing, unlike many horse owners.

Dan
Dan Puckett, CF
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RE:Improvement Clinics held for all organizations 18 Mar 2009 22:39 #11

  • Rick Talbert
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ladyblacksmith wrote:
I meant like a hybrid type of clinic were all the groups, chapters get together and shoe and forge, and work with each other.

The differences in how these groups evaluate and define a good shoeing job, makes a co-sponsored event between two or more of these groups you mentioned seem unlikely. Not impossible, but unlikely IMO. Kinda like having a conference co-sponsored by catholics, baptists, and buddhists. I think the most active group providing the type of learning experience you described is the state chapters of the AFA. In most states these guys are eager to help others and will put on a clinic whenever or where-ever they can.
I have been to 5 AFA Pre-certification clinics, and they were all just as you described you would like. Everyone is made welcome and comfortable. I think certification is "relevent" to most farriers, regardless of what they claim, or what excuses they make. There will always be cases of sour grapes, or cases where people have a hard time accepting reality. There will also be those who turn against the certification process simply out of an inability to master their own fear of failure. But I think most people find that the anticipation of being tested is worse than the actual testing itself. Exposing yourself to it a few times will allow all those pre-conceived notions to subside, and you realize that there are very good farriers at each cert. who fail, laugh it off, and try again, and again if neccesary. If it were easy everyone would do it and it wouldn't mean as much. You say testing makes people nervous. Did taking tests in school make people nervous? I guess it is all in how you approach it and what expectations you put on yourself. When I took my certified test I was very nervous for some reason, but ever since then, I've approached things with a sense of humor, (and probably not as prepared as I should be) with an "okay, I'll have a go at it" philosophy. I've learned to laugh at myself and not take things so seriously. Shoeing the horse for the journeyman in the alotted amount of time has been difficult for me, but it'd help if I shod horses with handmades more than once in a blue moon. But do I blame the test, or the examiners, ... nope, its all on me! I do know if I buckle down and practice a little it is attainable, so no sour grapes here.:o If I were not such a lazy bugger I'd be out there practicin now instead of lying in the bed tellin others how to go about it, lol. ......maybe i will go light the forge :)
Rick Talbert
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RE:Improvement Clinics held for all organizations 19 Mar 2009 14:05 #12

Dan Puckett wrote:
I took Mitch Taylor's Precertification clinic in October while I was a student. It was basically like ladyblacksmith said she wanted- everyone progressed at their own pace, worked on their weak points, improved their strong points, etc. I learned more in that week than the prior month of class work. When Saturday rolled around, each tester went over the test takers' shoe jobs and discussed what was done right, wrong, what would pass, what didnt, etc. It was why I didnt get to go til 2:30, when I was scheduled for ~11:45- the testers wanted to make sure everyone knew what was expected of them before the next person went. Even the guys who passed (of which I was not one) discussed their work.

I think the reason people get nervous testing is psychological- they are so afraid of failing that they end up doing so. I just go in and do it, always have. It is nothing to get nervous about, IMO. Someone else is going to be judging your shoeing, just like every day in your business. Only these people know a thing or two about shoeing, unlike many horse owners.

Dan

Great to hear this.....and it's Linda. ....and your right about the nerves.
________
TEEN HEALTH ADVICE
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RE:Improvement Clinics held for all organizations 19 Mar 2009 14:14 #13

Rick Talbert wrote:
The differences in how these groups evaluate and define a good shoeing job, makes a co-sponsored event between two or more of these groups you mentioned seem unlikely. Not impossible, but unlikely IMO. Kinda like having a conference co-sponsored by catholics, baptists, and buddhists. I think the most active group providing the type of learning experience you described is the state chapters of the AFA. In most states these guys are eager to help others and will put on a clinic whenever or where-ever they can.
I have been to 5 AFA Pre-certification clinics, and they were all just as you described you would like. Everyone is made welcome and comfortable. I think certification is "relevent" to most farriers, regardless of what they claim, or what excuses they make. There will always be cases of sour grapes, or cases where people have a hard time accepting reality. There will also be those who turn against the certification process simply out of an inability to master their own fear of failure. But I think most people find that the anticipation of being tested is worse than the actual testing itself. Exposing yourself to it a few times will allow all those pre-conceived notions to subside, and you realize that there are very good farriers at each cert. who fail, laugh it off, and try again, and again if neccesary. If it were easy everyone would do it and it wouldn't mean as much. You say testing makes people nervous. Did taking tests in school make people nervous? I guess it is all in how you approach it and what expectations you put on yourself. When I took my certified test I was very nervous for some reason, but ever since then, I've approached things with a sense of humor, (and probably not as prepared as I should be) with an "okay, I'll have a go at it" philosophy. I've learned to laugh at myself and not take things so seriously. Shoeing the horse for the journeyman in the alotted amount of time has been difficult for me, but it'd help if I shod horses with handmades more than once in a blue moon. But do I blame the test, or the examiners, ... nope, its all on me! I do know if I buckle down and practice a little it is attainable, so no sour grapes here.:o If I were not such a lazy bugger I'd be out there practicin now instead of lying in the bed tellin others how to go about it, lol. ......maybe i will go light the forge :)

Great!!! wonderful to here and we need more pre-certs to help farriers be their best.

NOTE:
An excellent blacksmith and friend was telling me just yesterday the he has all of them: AFA CJF, lifetime member, BWFA Master Farrier - lifetime member, and retire from our Union as IUJH. What his told me was all that testing and certifications made him a better horseshoer, but that his teacher made him the BEST horseshoer he could be.

I should do the same!.............................Linda
________
Motorcycle tires
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RE:Improvement Clinics held for all organizations 22 Mar 2009 16:20 #14

  • calshoer
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The Equine Lameness Prevention Organization did just what Linda suggested this last week.
Talks and hands on classrooms with veterinarians and farriers on subjects such as forging shoe modifications, negative palmer angles and hind end conformation as it relates to lameness, chiropractic, nutriceuticals and joint health demos and lectures on subjects such various treatment packages, horse handling, running your business, reading radiographs, and so on.
The veterinarian participation and guest speakers/clinicians from the UK were a great benefit to all. :)

Oh PS: much of the the information presented at the mini workshops was designed to " tune up" the ELPO members on the NB guidelines, update them on any changes and refinements that have come along, so they can better move forward to the next level of certification if they want to.
Patty Stiller CNBF,CLS
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RE:Improvement Clinics held for all organizations 23 Mar 2009 02:36 #15

Gary_Miller wrote:
Linda the point I was trying to make on the other tread was this. Besides the AFA convention, Pre-certification clinics, and horse owner clinics. The AFA does not put on clinics, they don't sponser them and they don't supply clinitions. The local associations are the ones who do this, and some people feel that because many local association are chapters or that many of the clinitions are past members of the AFA Team. This means the AFA put on the clinic. That is simply not so local people find the clintion, advertise the clinic and pay for the clinic, the AFA does nothing.

That being said, I have attended several clinics since I started shoeing. While I have learned alot from each clinic. Most of the clintions seem to spend sometime talking about shoeing a horse. But then they end up being mostly forging clinics. I have grown tired of forging clinics and have a great desire to learn other things related to ferrier work.

The best clinics I have been to are the ones where there was more discussion on the science of horse shoeing and less on the forging side of things. Its been these types of clinics where I have learned the most that has been benifical to me and the horses I care for.

Last weekend our association, the Farriers of Idaho Guild (FIG), had a clinic where we went to the local Equine Hospital and had discussions and work shops with the local vets on therapeutic shoeing. We reviewed X-rays and discussed the problems with the horse. Discussed the vets diagnoses, and recommendations on a shoeing protocol. Then we each built a shoe to fit the vets prescription. The best part of the whole clinic was Saturday morning where we sat and listened to a lecture on laminates, heel pain, ect.. It was very informative and I learned more from this one clinic than I have from all the ones where the clintion was someone from the AFA Team.
Hey, Gary , After all of that Rant - Against the AFA, Should't it be up to the Individual, to seek more knowledge??? Did you EVER Hear that the AFA , had ALL of the Answers?? Do you think that the AFA, and their programs, do not have something to offer ? Do you think that those individuals , that have given - themselves , to this trade, are irrelevant?? Where do you see Knowledge - Passed down , to New guys comming from?? The latest Issue of the AFJ??? I sure hope not!!!
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