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TOPIC: Animal Removal now in questioning

Animal Removal now in questioning 26 Feb 2009 19:08 #1

A farrier and I were talking shop, and he told me "Did you hear that in few months, if the animal rights people have their way; there will not be any dead animal removal from farms; you will have to disposed the animal another way.
Reason is:
They don't want meat by-products in the pet food products any longer!!!
Has anyone else heard of such a thing?

PS. I did not make this up.
________
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RE:Animal Removal now in questioning 26 Feb 2009 20:23 #2

  • Kaydence
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I haven't heard anything like this but yesterday I was at the allergist with my daughter and unfortunately, in a very un-farrier manner, I was over an hour early so I was reading a lot of magazines. I saw one there for PETA and figured it would be interesting to see the good and the bad in their literature.

I chuckled over the way they represented movie stars that gave the impression that there were all these vegan stars out there but in fact all they'd done is go to a vegan restaurant.

I also shook my head over the number of stories of them forcing owners to treat their animals "better" and in reality, the poor animals were being taken from a common, average lifestyle and probably turned into food (because sometimes it is cheaper to eat them than to deal with the crazy animal rights people) or over pampered (heaven forbid the animal stand in rain or snow or sunshine!). Heck, I sure hope they don't come up and see my horses with the snow on their backs, in a herd, drinking water we catch off the roof that goes into the bathtub. Only two of the five up here are blanketed and none of the ones at the other farm are (not even the 31 year old or 29 year old! How on earth have they survived so long with such neglect!?!).

I was kinda chuckling over the thought of PETA and the BUA meeting up. Of course the evils of shoes would be a common ground but I'd suspect PETA would be wanting fuzzy little liners in the boots for winter (faux fur of course) and what of the "natural" lifestyle the BUA promote? Blankets or no blankets. Promoting gravel and mud? Oy my! When extreme meets extreme.

I do lean towards pampering my pets and I do think it is great when an animal neglect case is brought to light and the animals who are truely in need are given a good home but some of the crazy people sitting behind desks who have no freaking idea what is "natural" or what is "healthy domestic" really need a reality check.

I LOVE Temple Grandin's book "Animals in Translation" because she is working at removing cruel practices by being completely practical and simple.

Cheri
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RE:Animal Removal now in questioning 26 Feb 2009 22:04 #3

  • Jim Sweeney
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ladyblacksmith wrote:
A farrier and I were talking shop, and he told me "Did you hear that in few months, if the animal rights people have their way; there will not be any dead animal removal from farms; you will have to disposed the animal another way.
Reason is:
They don't want meat by-products in the pet food products any longer!!!
Has anyone else heard of such a thing?

PS. I did not make this up.

That is probably not far from true. The sad fact is some of those dead or near dead animals are going onto OUR food products. If you read your pet food labels chances are you won't find any animal by products in the top three ingredients. Worse yet the broad defintion of "by products" can include the sawdust that they soak up the blood with in the slaughter house. A random test of many Dog foods found substantial ppm counts of the drugs used by vets to euthanize the animals. We use to have a "knacker" that came and took away dead animals. Most communities did. There was always a brisk market to supply fur farms with food. I don't think fur is a big business anymore. Today the government would like to see people compost dead livestock and provide detailed instructions how to do it if you request it. Nothing makes me more sick than seeing some one from PETA dressed up like a cow trying to get little kids to stop drinking milk. However they are on track with some issues, this may be one of them. Our agencies that have been set up to protect our entire food chain have been gutted by the previous administration, so anybody that helps raise peoples awareness is OK with me.
Jim Sweeney

"I started with nothing and I still have most of it left". The Logger.
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RE:Animal Removal now in questioning 27 Feb 2009 01:43 #4

Kaydence wrote:
I haven't heard anything like this but yesterday I was at the allergist with my daughter and unfortunately, in a very un-farrier manner, I was over an hour early so I was reading a lot of magazines. I saw one there for PETA and figured it would be interesting to see the good and the bad in their literature.

I chuckled over the way they represented movie stars that gave the impression that there were all these vegan stars out there but in fact all they'd done is go to a vegan restaurant.

I also shook my head over the number of stories of them forcing owners to treat their animals "better" and in reality, the poor animals were being taken from a common, average lifestyle and probably turned into food (because sometimes it is cheaper to eat them than to deal with the crazy animal rights people) or over pampered (heaven forbid the animal stand in rain or snow or sunshine!). Heck, I sure hope they don't come up and see my horses with the snow on their backs, in a herd, drinking water we catch off the roof that goes into the bathtub. Only two of the five up here are blanketed and none of the ones at the other farm are (not even the 31 year old or 29 year old! How on earth have they survived so long with such neglect!?!).

I was kinda chuckling over the thought of PETA and the BUA meeting up. Of course the evils of shoes would be a common ground but I'd suspect PETA would be wanting fuzzy little liners in the boots for winter (faux fur of course) and what of the "natural" lifestyle the BUA promote? Blankets or no blankets. Promoting gravel and mud? Oy my! When extreme meets extreme.

I do lean towards pampering my pets and I do think it is great when an animal neglect case is brought to light and the animals who are truely in need are given a good home but some of the crazy people sitting behind desks who have no freaking idea what is "natural" or what is "healthy domestic" really need a reality check.

I LOVE Temple Grandin's book "Animals in Translation" because she is working at removing cruel practices by being completely practical and simple.

Cheri
well cheri if ya though that mag was a hoot try the aspca .com and read some of the bs that theporfessional is saying on that site about horse slaughter and so on.and the thing is he don't live in the usa and most of the things that he posts happen in some other country not the us.
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RE:Animal Removal now in questioning 27 Feb 2009 02:12 #5

  • Mike Ferrara
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horseshoe1 wrote:
That is probably not far from true. The sad fact is some of those dead or near dead animals are going onto OUR food products. If you read your pet food labels chances are you won't find any animal by products in the top three ingredients. Worse yet the broad defintion of "by products" can include the sawdust that they soak up the blood with in the slaughter house. A random test of many Dog foods found substantial ppm counts of the drugs used by vets to euthanize the animals. We use to have a "knacker" that came and took away dead animals. Most communities did. There was always a brisk market to supply fur farms with food. I don't think fur is a big business anymore. Today the government would like to see people compost dead livestock and provide detailed instructions how to do it if you request it. Nothing makes me more sick than seeing some one from PETA dressed up like a cow trying to get little kids to stop drinking milk. However they are on track with some issues, this may be one of them. Our agencies that have been set up to protect our entire food chain have been gutted by the previous administration, so anybody that helps raise peoples awareness is OK with me.

That's all fine...I guess...but it still leaves the question of what to do with the dead animal if you don't need compost.

Restricting how the material is used for the sake of public health is one matter but preventing folks who don't want it from paying to have it hauled away is another.
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RE:Animal Removal now in questioning 27 Feb 2009 03:14 #6

  • vthorseshoe
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Here in Vermont a number of the farms (at least in my area) that lose a calf for one reason or another drag it out to the back field and let the coy dogs or coyote's scavage over it.

When I was in California I had good friends who had a horse die from old age
and they , being realists, said the body was just an empty carcus now the horse had passed on.
The same day the carcus was taken to a local zoo and fed to the lions.

When the border wasn't so strict, many horses that were old or crippled (along with some healthy animals) went to Canada.
This happened before and after the slaughter houses in the US were shut down.
They turned into dog food, and "hamburgers." am I correct about this my Canadian Farrier Brothers and Sisters ?
Seems the Canadians and French eat horse meat. (if I have heard correctly)....

What will Peta do about the Veterinarian hospitals and clinics across the country that use cadavors for research ?
Will this go the way of green grass fertilizer also ???

How will Mitch Taylor give anatomy clinics with out cadavor legs ?
What will all the famous Veterinarians doing research on founder/laminitiis do ???
What about research animals with windows in their sides so researchers can view what is going on ?? and all the other forms of testings going on.

By-products..... saw dust entrenched with urine/manure/etc..
blood and hooves and hair and vegetables and what ever else they can induce into the mix.
Chemicals coming from all area's...

Yet who stands up and makes the noise ? SPCA and PETA and other orgs.

The rest of the folks just complain about the folks making or pushing the laws to go through.

What should be done ????


my 2 cents worth ;)
"you may not like what I say" !
-but-
"you'll never have any doubts where I stand
quote Cindy Matthews 1948-2006


I thought my life had come to a close with Cindy's passing, but there is life after death Thankyou Sharon !

Bruce Matthews
Southeast...
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RE:Animal Removal now in questioning 27 Feb 2009 03:55 #7

  • Gary Hill
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"What should be done" ? Stand up and fight them when they are in your neighborhood! Problem is, they have Bob Barker, Pam Anderson, Lilly Tomlin and such people as "spokesmen" for them. The common person has no way of getting on TV like they do to spill their poisonous venom. Years ago when I was on the road with RBBBC we were constantly hassled in most every town and for the most weird reasons. They are fanatics and also terrorists of a kind like people that bomb abortion clinics. They are very Left in their thinking and as a matter of fact apparently have the majority of the USA on their side with their last vote. Last spring Kelly Miller Circus came through my area and the Tiger Trainer is a friend of mine. I stopped by the show after setup and during nap time for the show. They travel early in the am and then setup and have a small window to catch a nap or do laundry or grocery shop. Anyway I stopped at the elephants and three ladies from the town were there commenting how cruel it was that the elephants were in a area with three strans of hotwire. ( It wasn't even hot) The elephants were eating hay and throwing dirt on their backs, a very common thing for them to do anywhere they are. The ladies said they needed to be loose in the "wild". I asked them if they had ever been to India or Africa to see how they lived in the "wild". None of them could answer that. I then proceeded to tell them about snares made of wire that eventually cut their legs off if they are caught up in them. Farmers and poachers do that over there. I also explained the care that these captive elephants and other animals in zoos and circus's recieve. They walked away with a completely differant additude and thanked me for explaining things for them. They admitted that they were "sent" there to protest by a peta person. One small win in a very big war!
"As I see it, winners get the money - while losers talk of "individual goals" and similar stuff." Tom Stovall
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RE:Animal Removal now in questioning 27 Feb 2009 06:17 #8

  • Bill Adams
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Good job outa you Gary.
When asked what happens to wild horses (when I tell someone what I do for a living) I just tell them "They die much younger than domestic horses, and more painfully".
Watch a National Geographic special, and then chose where you would rather live if you were an antelope.

A rightous man regardeth the life of his beast. Proverbs 12:10
I don't give a damn for a man who can only spell a word one way. Mark Twain
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RE:Animal Removal now in questioning 27 Feb 2009 19:33 #9

  • Jim Sweeney
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Mike Ferrara wrote:
That's all fine...I guess...but it still leaves the question of what to do with the dead animal if you don't need compost.

Restricting how the material is used for the sake of public health is one matter but preventing folks who don't want it from paying to have it hauled away is another.

I agree Mike, I was more in favor of preventing dead or dying animals from entering our food chain. Here in Vermont I have buried horses on my land because I have plenty of room to do it. I know a vast number of people probably don't have alot of extra acres to plant dead horses. I also own the equipment to dig the holes, I know it may be a stretch for someone to pay hundreds of dollars to have a machine trucked in to bury a horse. As Bruce mentioned many folks just haul livestock out to the boonies to let the coyotes have at it. I did this once with 4 feet of snow on the ground and no way to start a excavator at -23 degrees. I took comfort in the fact that countless deer may have survived because the coyotes were busy feeding on my "petunia" for a week. The USDA would like to see people stop putting them in the ground so that is why they push the composting which sounds bad but the livestock just simply disappears in the compost pile. Again I have tried this as well but not the least bit practical for the suburban horse operation. There has to be an approved method of disposing of them without them being ground up for animal feed.
Jim Sweeney

"I started with nothing and I still have most of it left". The Logger.
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RE:Animal Removal now in questioning 27 Feb 2009 21:53 #10

In our county it's illegal to bury livestock on your own property, I'd much rather bury my horse (and pay the added expense to have someone come dig the hole) on my property then have the renderer come out.
Phil Smith CNBF, CLS
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RE:Animal Removal now in questioning 28 Feb 2009 01:26 #11

  • JStaples
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vthorseshoe wrote:
Here in Vermont a number of the farms (at least in my area) that lose a calf for one reason or another drag it out to the back field and let the coy dogs or coyote's scavage over it.

When I was in California I had good friends who had a horse die from old age
and they , being realists, said the body was just an empty carcus now the horse had passed on.
The same day the carcus was taken to a local zoo and fed to the lions.

When the border wasn't so strict, many horses that were old or crippled (along with some healthy animals) went to Canada.
This happened before and after the slaughter houses in the US were shut down.
They turned into dog food, and "hamburgers." am I correct about this my Canadian Farrier Brothers and Sisters ?
Seems the Canadians and French eat horse meat. (if I have heard correctly)....

What will Peta do about the Veterinarian hospitals and clinics across the country that use cadavors for research ?
Will this go the way of green grass fertilizer also ???

How will Mitch Taylor give anatomy clinics with out cadavor legs ?
What will all the famous Veterinarians doing research on founder/laminitiis do ???
What about research animals with windows in their sides so researchers can view what is going on ?? and all the other forms of testings going on.

By-products..... saw dust entrenched with urine/manure/etc..
blood and hooves and hair and vegetables and what ever else they can induce into the mix.
Chemicals coming from all area's...

Yet who stands up and makes the noise ? SPCA and PETA and other orgs.

The rest of the folks just complain about the folks making or pushing the laws to go through.

What should be done ????


my 2 cents worth ;)

Bruce,

I can assure my American friends there is no horse meat in Canadian hamburger. To my knowledge most Canadian horse meat is consumed in France.

John Staples
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RE:Animal Removal now in questioning 28 Feb 2009 01:50 #12

  • dave murray
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Like John said theres no horsemeat in canadian hamburg. i remember a few years ago there was some question at the track about horses being on sulphur drugs if you had a horse die you had to let them know if they were on any sulphur drugs . they said that they ground them up for fertilizer and the sulphur ruined the machinery.
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RE:Animal Removal now in questioning 28 Feb 2009 02:12 #13

  • Jim Sweeney
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dave murray wrote:
Like John said theres no horsemeat in canadian hamburg. i remember a few years ago there was some question at the track about horses being on sulphur drugs if you had a horse die you had to let them know if they were on any sulphur drugs . they said that they ground them up for fertilizer and the sulphur ruined the machinery.

Dave. I use to make the trip up to Owen Sound to Barton Feeders and bring back the Cadaver legs for Classes at the vet school at Guelph. It was quite an experience for a kid that thought all horses were peacefully laid to rest at the end of their lives. I think that Belgium along with France was the final destination for their product. I doubt anyone actually believes slaughtered horse meat ends up in hamburger. The real danger is when those animals are ground up and then fed to other animals intended for human consumption.
Jim Sweeney

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RE:Animal Removal now in questioning 03 Mar 2009 17:27 #14

horseshoe1 wrote:
That is probably not far from true. The sad fact is some of those dead or near dead animals are going onto OUR food products. If you read your pet food labels chances are you won't find any animal by products in the top three ingredients. Worse yet the broad defintion of "by products" can include the sawdust that they soak up the blood with in the slaughter house. A random test of many Dog foods found substantial ppm counts of the drugs used by vets to euthanize the animals. We use to have a "knacker" that came and took away dead animals. Most communities did. There was always a brisk market to supply fur farms with food. I don't think fur is a big business anymore. Today the government would like to see people compost dead livestock and provide detailed instructions how to do it if you request it. Nothing makes me more sick than seeing some one from PETA dressed up like a cow trying to get little kids to stop drinking milk. However they are on track with some issues, this may be one of them. Our agencies that have been set up to protect our entire food chain have been gutted by the previous administration, so anybody that helps raise peoples awareness is OK with me.

Thanks for responding, everyone.

I was talking about this post, and what I had said; and she thinks it's has to do with the "Mad Cow" and to keep things cleaner, because when they pick up, it has all the animals, horses, bison, cattle mixed together!!! in the same truck. This does make a lot of sense. When the truck came, it had all different livestock in there. I used to see that for myself, and might be what's going on.

Also remember, I know there IS an underlying and undermining of our animal use in this country.
Any other comments?
________
MAGIC FLIGHT LAUNCH BOX REVIEW
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RE:Animal Removal now in questioning 03 Mar 2009 17:29 #15

Gary Hill wrote:
"What should be done" ? Stand up and fight them when they are in your neighborhood! Problem is, they have Bob Barker, Pam Anderson, Lilly Tomlin and such people as "spokesmen" for them. The common person has no way of getting on TV like they do to spill their poisonous venom. Years ago when I was on the road with RBBBC we were constantly hassled in most every town and for the most weird reasons. They are fanatics and also terrorists of a kind like people that bomb abortion clinics. They are very Left in their thinking and as a matter of fact apparently have the majority of the USA on their side with their last vote. Last spring Kelly Miller Circus came through my area and the Tiger Trainer is a friend of mine. I stopped by the show after setup and during nap time for the show. They travel early in the am and then setup and have a small window to catch a nap or do laundry or grocery shop. Anyway I stopped at the elephants and three ladies from the town were there commenting how cruel it was that the elephants were in a area with three strans of hotwire. ( It wasn't even hot) The elephants were eating hay and throwing dirt on their backs, a very common thing for them to do anywhere they are. The ladies said they needed to be loose in the "wild". I asked them if they had ever been to India or Africa to see how they lived in the "wild". None of them could answer that. I then proceeded to tell them about snares made of wire that eventually cut their legs off if they are caught up in them. Farmers and poachers do that over there. I also explained the care that these captive elephants and other animals in zoos and circus's recieve. They walked away with a completely differant additude and thanked me for explaining things for them. They admitted that they were "sent" there to protest by a peta person. One small win in a very big war!

Agreed!!! Gary
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