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TOPIC: Grandfathered in?

RE:Grandfathered in? 20 May 2009 15:41 #16

  • George Geist
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calshoer wrote:
The California test was a joke. The track plater inspector wanted me to take it and "get legal" (I told you they knew about my and my ex's plating there,and I shod his personal horses at his home) ) and he gave me all the information and study guides.The information I needed involved about a hundredth of the knowledge that a good farrier should posess,and some of it was mechanically wrong for the horse. Oh common, how many TB platers ever actually need to get into the forge? If they can make a simple bar shoe or pull clips that's all they need in that environment. Like i said the test is a joke anyway. It only tests knowledge of what plates are which win the parts that involve the mechanics of the foot and leg, it's is wrong in many areas and the track shoeing guidelines often perpetuates detrimental shoeing.
Of course we all know Patty knows better:rolleyes:

Anyway, having been involved with more horseshoeing tests than most guys, and being quite familiar with the California test, I can say that anybody who can't even pass the daggone CF test will never pass any racetrack test anywhere.

Snowed in again today Patty?
George
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RE:Grandfathered in? 20 May 2009 16:32 #17

  • Mike Ferrara
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George Geist wrote:
Snowed in again today Patty?
George

It's a good day for fixing lawn tractors, making knives and going fishing...maybe a little beer and internet thrown in there someplace.

If you charge enough, you can take Wednesday off.
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RE:Grandfathered in? 20 May 2009 16:33 #18

Just passin through~ wrote:
Linda,do you shoe more crippled horses than sound horses? Your business could get bigger if all you did was shoe cripples? Do you like to shoe cripples or not?

I get "asked" to straighten out horses that others "xxx up!!":mad:
that are whack and tacks and 90 day wonders in this business that have No business being in this business; and the all of the smucks that won't support "good" blacksmiths; whether they are in the AFA, Guild, Union, or BWFA; certified or not-certified, buddy JPT.

I don't like to see any horse crippled, or any shoer cripple a horse; but it happens in this business. I shoe enough cripples as it is.
I shoe a cripple to the best of my ablities; and hope that I have been able to help the horse and owners in any way. If I cannot; then I will see if someone else can think of something different in shoeing.
I am not a know it all; nor will I ever know it all. But I will my dxxest to be the best that I can be.
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RE:Grandfathered in? 20 May 2009 17:09 #19

calshoer wrote:
Which was my point .WRONG, because unions (of any kind ) IMO(tend to protect the members despite those members shortfalls. Pay your dues, your in, and then no one can challenge you. It removes the free market and fair competition for the best skills .

The California test was a joke. The track plater inspector wanted me to take it and "get legal" (I told you they knew about my and my ex's plating there,and I shod his personal horses at his home) ) and he gave me all the information and study guides.The information I needed involved about a hundredth of the knowledge that a good farrier should posess,and some of it was mechanically wrong for the horse. Oh common, how many TB platers ever actually need to get into the forge? If they can make a simple bar shoe or pull clips that's all they need in that environment. Like i said the test is a joke anyway. It only tests knowledge of what plates are which win the parts that involve the mechanics of the foot and leg, it's is wrong in many areas and the track shoeing guidelines often perpetuates detrimental shoeing.
Licencing farriers on the track IMO is primarily to insure no cheating (setting up someones horse with bad shoeing deliberately to fix a race for example) , to control financial responsibility, and drug use. Horse owners and trainers should not have to be limited in whatever way they want to shoe their own horses, as long as the shoeing adheres to the incorrect and and harmful shoeing rules imposed upon them. :rolleyes:
.......................................................................................

Union has totally changed in the 21st Century.
Union test you have to use forging skills!!!
Union test is not a joke; although other tests in the past have been a joke; including today the NO shoeing test to be PC.
Union testing made sure you could shoe a racehorse propertly, and in any shoeing......in the classical way of shoeing a racehorse ....

*****Which- if you look at "Smitty88" shoeing of the racehorse; you will see a beautiful classical way of shoeing the racehorse; PLUS a wonderful and classical way of shoeing most horses. He is wonderful testament to this forum and to others here, including myself.
Plus, there are others on this forum that doing extrodinary work; which we can all learn from.
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RE:Grandfathered in? 20 May 2009 18:07 #20

  • George Geist
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ladyblacksmith wrote:
I get "asked" to straighten out horses that others "xxx up!!":mad:
that are whack and tacks and 90 day wonders in this business that have No business being in this business; and the all of the smucks that won't support "good" blacksmiths; whether they are in the AFA, Guild, Union, or BWFA; certified or not-certified, buddy JPT.
Linda! Do you need a trip to the woodshed girl!:mad:

Enough already!

Also, this board is innapproriate to discuss issues of racetracks. If you're that annoyed by the goings on in those places there are much more effective things you could be doing about it than whining about it here. Capice?
George
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RE:Grandfathered in? 20 May 2009 18:36 #21

George Geist wrote:
Linda! Do you need a trip to the woodshed girl!:mad:

Enough already!:(

Also, this board is innapproriate to discuss issues of racetracks. If you're that annoyed by the goings on in those places there are much more effective things you could be doing about it than whining about it here. Capice?
George

The guy that I talked today reminded me of all the unfairness people have bestowed upon me for shoeing horses in this area for the last 19 years.
He thinks I have been treated so unfairly; that it does and has disgusted a lot of people over the years.
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RE:Grandfathered in? 20 May 2009 20:51 #22

  • smitty88
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George Geist wrote:
Of course we all know Patty knows better:rolleyes:

Anyway, having been involved with more horseshoeing tests than most guys, and being quite familiar with the California test, I can say that anybody who can't even pass the daggone CF test will never pass any racetrack test anywhere.

Snowed in again today Patty?
George

George,
I think it was somthing about not been able to pull clips:eek:
Smitty88
John Mc Loughlin
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RE:Grandfathered in? 20 May 2009 21:26 #23

ladyblacksmith wrote:
The guy that I talked today reminded me of all the unfairness people have bestowed upon me for shoeing horses in this area for the last 19 years.
He thinks I have been treated so unfairly; that it does and has disgusted a lot of people over the years.

Linda,are you saying that people have judged you unfairly for 19 yrs?
And that one man says it was not justifieable? just so that you know,
i am with the one man~
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RE:Grandfathered in? 20 May 2009 22:24 #24

  • solidrockshoer
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ladyblacksmith wrote:
The guy that I talked today reminded me of all the unfairness people have bestowed upon me for shoeing horses in this area for the last 19 years.
He thinks I have been treated so unfairly; that it does and has disgusted a lot of people over the years.

Linda,

Are you ok? Are you suffering from a bout of depression? Do some google searches and try to find some help.

Last I checked, anyone (woman or man) who works hard enough has plenty of business. This constant crying on the internet can't possibly help you pick up any work.

I do hope you find help and get better. :)
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RE:Grandfathered in? 20 May 2009 23:43 #25

  • Rick Talbert
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ladyblacksmith wrote:
Yes.....Period.
you should just look at some of my cripples I shoe now!!!!!:mad:; because "the owner shod their own horse" rational.

It is animal cruelty is what it is!!!!!

No one is ever gonna stop owners from shoeing their own horses. That is just unenforceable. Plus this is America. They should have the right to do what they wish. Yes, the horse may suffer from a hot nail, or trimmed too short or too long, out of balance, etc. But until we raise the standards of farriery here in the states, we definitely have no leg to stand on, as the same junk is being done by many "farriers" as we speak. What defines a farrier? What minimal knowledge must one have to claim to be a farrier? At the present time none, so anyone that wants to call themselves a farrier could do so. I am all for licensing, to raise the minimal standard required for one to call themselves a farrier. But I am not for taking away an owner's rights to choose to shoe their own horses, or choose to use an unlicensed farrier (if licensing ever were to come to pass). There would inevitably be nonlicensed farriers working, but if licensing laws were passed in each state, these individuals would be labelled as unlicensed farriers, not licensed farriers, to a horse owner that has little sense, this would at least be something that would encourage them to use someone who was competent enough to pass a simple test. But if they want an unlicensed farrier to do their work, they should have that right. The point is more to advance the farrier profession/ trade, than it is to deny someone their rights and freedoms. Then when you ask "what minimal knowledge must one have to claim to be a licensed farrier?" their would be an answer, that would differentiate an individual with at least a minimal level of competency from those who are truly incompetent. Is such a law unenforceable, probably for the most part it is, so if it ever were to happen, it would not eliminate the hacks from the equation. But if the general public were made aware of the licensing statutes, then the owner may no longer equate the farrier professional with the work and knowledge exhibited by the worst our so-called profession has to offer. (Here we go again with this debate!!!!:()
Rick Talbert
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RE:Grandfathered in? 20 May 2009 23:51 #26

  • George Geist
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She's talking about racetracks Rick.

The racetrack licensing is very enforceable. Always has been.

Problem we got is that more than a few of us justifiably feel that we've earned our racetrack licenses.

Just watch the reaction you get from AFA certified guys when somebody falsely claims certification as can easily be found in the archives.

Racetrack guys who have earned their place in the trade tend to feel the same way. That's all.

Thing I'm trying to understand like Rick is why Linda resurrected an old thread that had nothing to do with racetracks and went off on her own tangent instead of starting a new one:confused:
George
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RE:Grandfathered in? 21 May 2009 00:49 #27

George Geist wrote:
She's talking about racetracks Rick.

The racetrack licensing is very enforceable. Always has been.

Problem we got is that more than a few of us justifiably feel that we've earned our racetrack licenses.

Just watch the reaction you get from AFA certified guys when somebody falsely claims certification as can easily be found in the archives.

Racetrack guys who have earned their place in the trade tend to feel the same way. That's all.

Thing I'm trying to understand like Rick is why Linda resurrected an old thread that had nothing to do with racetracks and went off on her own tangent instead of starting a new one:confused:
George

George,lol Linda was just looking around to find something she could relate to.
I do the same thing sometimes.But linda needed recognition and there is nothing wrong with that either.But when she said some guy stood up for her,when all the others let her down.Do you think the guy that stood up for her was some young kid? or some old experienced farrier? Because where i come from,we call old men who like pretty young girls?"EVERYBODY"
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RE:Grandfathered in? 21 May 2009 00:58 #28

  • Jaye Perry
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Just passin through......Because where i come from,we call old men who like pretty young girls?"EVERYBODY

prevert?...:confused::confused::confused::confused:
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RE:Grandfathered in? 21 May 2009 01:34 #29

  • George Geist
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Just passin through~ wrote:
But when she said some guy stood up for her,when all the others let her down.Do you think the guy that stood up for her was some young kid? or some old experienced farrier? Because where i come from,we call old men who like pretty young girls?"EVERYBODY"
Gotta love my lil' sister but I really have no idea who or what she was talking about:confused:
George
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RE:Grandfathered in? 21 May 2009 01:52 #30

  • Tom Stovall CJF
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calshoer in gray

I believe Linda's issue is her precious union losing it's grip on her limited world in the racing trade.

The JHU has been essentially dead since they lost the Midwest.

Frankly,from what I have seen, many race platers are somewhat limited in their range of farrier skills,

My experience is contrary to yours. In my experience, one can find the best and the worst at the track. You probably wouldn't understand due to your limited experience and the fact you've never been licensed as a plater, but it takes a unique skill set to move a horse up in class - and some platers do it with regularity. On the other hand, a plater with limited skills can drop a horse in class before Bob gets the news - but they can't make a living plating and they seldom stay around until the water gets hot; in fact, some of that particular class of deadweights on the periphery of racing don't even bother to become licensed as platers.

and therefore IMO the owners should have the right to bring in any farrier they want to work on their horses as long as the shoeing on entered horses adheres to that racing jurisdiction's rules.

Everyone from mutuel clerks to owners to hot walkers undergos a background check and are LICENSED in every perimutuel jurisdiction: Why should platers be any different?
Tom Stovall, CJF
"The only foolish question is the one left unasked."
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