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TOPIC: Is the AFA relevant to the VET COMMUNITY?

Is the AFA relevant to the VET COMMUNITY? 31 Jan 2009 13:41 #1

  • Martin Kenny
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OK let's play nice here too, and keep on track; or I will shut it down.

Also Please note, I am adding one more aspect to the questions I have asked.

If you say, NO. please expound with a short note why you feel that way, do the same if you say YES.

Then if you say NO, please ad what you feel would make the AFA become relevant!

READ THE QUESTION AND ANSWER IT DIRECTLY< OR DON"T BOTHER ANSWERING IT AT ALL>
If you feel shoeing horses is best served by how well you can work in the forge, you are missing the point!

It is how well you shoe a horse, so he performs at his best advantage, IN SPITE of his personal issues. Forge work is simply a tool that MAY be...
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RE:Is the AFA relevant to the VET COMMUNITY? 31 Jan 2009 15:09 #2

  • JimBondra
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Martin Kenny Is the AFA relevant to the VET COMMUNITY?

OK let's play nice here too, and keep on track; or I will shut it down.

READ THE QUESTION AND ANSWER IT DIRECTLY< OR DON"T BOTHER ANSWERING IT AT ALL>

Your pomposity is duly noted.
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RE:Is the AFA relevant to the VET COMMUNITY? 31 Jan 2009 15:38 #3

  • Rick Burten
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Jim,

Pomposity aside, what is your take on the question?

For me, the answer is "It Depends", with a definite tilt towards "NO".

Many farriers out there that are not AFA members are involved, at least at some level, in a veterinary practice. Due to whatever quirk of nature that sparks them, they have gone the extra mile to learn about those subjects that are encountered in a veterinary practice that require a higher level of knowledge and skills set in order to make themselves valuable to the veterinarian(s). Remember, we are the 'installation technicians' and no veterinarian will recommend, or, often, work with, a farrier whom they feel does not measure up. YMMV.
Rick Burten PF

In the immortal words of Ron White: "But let me tell you something, folks: You can't fix S-tupid. There's not a pill you can take; there's not a class you can go to. S-tupid is forever."
."


Je pense donc je suis
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RE:Is the AFA relevant to the VET COMMUNITY? 31 Jan 2009 15:50 #4

  • reillyshoe
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I am not certified by the AFA, and this question never came up in my interviewing process at UPenn.
On the other hand, I was asked to participate in a farrier/vet relations discussion for the AAEP a few years ago, and had the invitation was revoked when it was learned that I am not in the AFA.
P
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RE:Is the AFA relevant to the VET COMMUNITY? 31 Jan 2009 15:58 #5

  • George Geist
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reillyshoe wrote:
I am not certified by the AFA, and this question never came up in my interviewing process at UPenn.
On the other hand, I was asked to participate in a farrier/vet relations discussion for the AAEP a few years ago, and had the invitation was revoked when it was learned that I am not in the AFA.
Pat,
I guess that proves it just depends. To best of my understanding the AFA has worked pretty hard over the years trying to jump into bed with the AAEP. Looks like they finally made some progress in that area. Ain't politics grand?:rolleyes:
George
For another fun place to play........
www.horseshoersforum.invisionzone.com
Come over and say hello.
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RE:Is the AFA relevant to the VET COMMUNITY? 31 Jan 2009 16:00 #6

  • JimBondra
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Rick Burten Re: Is the AFA relevant to the VET COMMUNITY?

Remember, we are the 'installation technicians' and no veterinarian will recommend, or, often, work with, a farrier whom they feel does not measure up. YMMV.

I disagree with your take on this.
But, I can only speak from my experiences in my area.

The larger Vet practices here indeed want and do recommend their own "installation technicians"
What they insist on in their "technicians" is someone who will follow orders.
Jim
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RE:Is the AFA relevant to the VET COMMUNITY? 31 Jan 2009 16:07 #7

  • Mike Ferrara
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reillyshoe wrote:
I am not certified by the AFA, and this question never came up in my interviewing process at UPenn.
On the other hand, I was asked to participate in a farrier/vet relations discussion for the AAEP a few years ago, and had the invitation was revoked when it was learned that I am not in the AFA.

To follow up on what George said, why do you think they did that? I've gotten the impression that the AAEP is at least as interested in control as anythging else.

On that same note I was talking to a farrier who is an AFA CF and used to compete. The last time he made the team, they dropped him when it came to light that he wasn't a CJF. Assuming that the account is accurate and I have no reason to doubt it, he was dropped AFTER having demonstrated adequate skill.

Seems the same happened with you. They thought you were just the right guy...until.

Who needs that kind of garbage?
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RE:Is the AFA relevant to the VET COMMUNITY? 31 Jan 2009 16:13 #8

  • Mike Ferrara
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JimBondra wrote:
I disagree with your take on this.
But, I can only speak from my experiences in my area.

The larger Vet practices here indeed want and do recommend their own "installation technicians"
What they insist on in their "technicians" is someone who will follow orders.
Jim

In my experience some vets just refuse to talk to or work with a farrier other than their own.

As a matter of self defense, I have taken to recommending to people that use those vets to just take the horse to the clinic. I don't want to touch them until after the vet and the vets farrier sets them up the way they want.

If I can avoid any involvement at all, so much the better.
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RE:Is the AFA relevant to the VET COMMUNITY? 31 Jan 2009 16:31 #9

  • Rick Burten
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Mike Ferrara wrote:
On that same note I was talking to a farrier who is an AFA CF and used to compete. The last time he made the team, they dropped him when it came to light that he wasn't a CJF. Assuming that the account is accurate and I have no reason to doubt it, he was dropped AFTER having demonstrated adequate skill.

Mike,

The CJF requirement for Team members came about because as some point in time the Brits said that the Team members couldn't compete over there unless the farriers were at least the 'equal' of their entry level WCF farrier(or words to that effect). Since the CJF appellation was deemed by the Brits to be acceptable it became required for Team members.

IIRC, Craig Trnka at that time was a CF and a member of the Team, so there was a scramble to get him successfully through all phases of the CJF exams so he could go and compete.
Rick Burten PF

In the immortal words of Ron White: "But let me tell you something, folks: You can't fix S-tupid. There's not a pill you can take; there's not a class you can go to. S-tupid is forever."
."


Je pense donc je suis
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RE:Is the AFA relevant to the VET COMMUNITY? 31 Jan 2009 16:32 #10

  • Rick Burten
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Jim,

I don't know why you feel we are in disagreement. I find the same conditions of employment as do you.
Rick Burten PF

In the immortal words of Ron White: "But let me tell you something, folks: You can't fix S-tupid. There's not a pill you can take; there's not a class you can go to. S-tupid is forever."
."


Je pense donc je suis
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RE:Is the AFA relevant to the VET COMMUNITY? 31 Jan 2009 17:22 #11

  • JimBondra
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Rick,
I was assuming that your statement about Vets not using Farriers that don't measure up to mean some sort of measurable achievement.
AFA certification or the equivalent of.
My bad.

I guess we do agree!
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RE:Is the AFA relevant to the VET COMMUNITY? 31 Jan 2009 20:05 #12

  • Rick Burten
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JimBondra wrote:
I guess we do agree!

Will wonders never cease?:D:)

Sadly, here in the Land of Lincoln, the state university cares little about how well qualified or what certifications their staff farrier holds. The faculty of the veterinary teaching hospital of the university have demonstrated that they are satisfied in providing second rate care and as a result I no longer recommend the university to any of my clients, or anyone else who asks me. In fact, I will try to dissuade people from sending their horses to the university for veterinary care.
Rick Burten PF

In the immortal words of Ron White: "But let me tell you something, folks: You can't fix S-tupid. There's not a pill you can take; there's not a class you can go to. S-tupid is forever."
."


Je pense donc je suis
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RE:Is the AFA relevant to the VET COMMUNITY? 01 Feb 2009 00:06 #13

  • Martin Kenny
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Rick, good point and I have to say that this is the same situation here in NC as well.
If you feel shoeing horses is best served by how well you can work in the forge, you are missing the point!

It is how well you shoe a horse, so he performs at his best advantage, IN SPITE of his personal issues. Forge work is simply a tool that MAY be...
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RE:Is the AFA relevant to the VET COMMUNITY? 01 Feb 2009 07:28 #14

Hey Rick,

I do not chime in on these discussions and the reason is forth coming in my post.

Quote: “ Many farriers out there that are not AFA members are involved, at least at some level, in a veterinary practice. Due to whatever quirk of nature that sparks them, they have gone the extra mile to learn about those subjects that are encountered in a veterinary practice that require a higher level of knowledge and skills set in order to make themselves valuable to the veterinarian(s).”
Rick that is truly run away pomposity in that statement! :cool:But then again this is belief of some of its members for eons {at least 25yrs). This in of it self, has turn off many – very many would be many members over the years.
As oppose to the “Fear Factor” on taking the exams:eek: as Tom S. has suggested and has stated numerous of times on this board. Then he and others state that AFA needs to educate the horse owning public of the merits of being AFA certified, well that in it self is VERY simplistic. In fact, more of the public has full knowledge of the AFA. . In fact, most horse owner get their opinions from the barn owner, trainer, stable mate, Vet. and finally the farrier. :pIt has been well known for decades that as a group it has a LOT members purporting that if you want your horses shod right you must use a CJF or your horse will not be shod properly. Well I can truthfully say that there a lot of trainers and barn owners that have been the business 10 – 45 yrs and say to me, that they do not appreciate or care to be told, they do not know how their horse should be shod or the results they should expect? This is B---S to these folks, they believe the AFA is and always is and always be
nada, rein, Ei-mitaan.
As far as their exam goes,( contest prep) to the folks out here “Due to whatever quirk of nature that sparks them”:rolleyes: get it done right and have for a long time my friend , is that the best they can do to help the farrier trade, the ONLY reason for the quack system of testing, was to emulate the British and to be able to contest there, PERIOD they never tried to help the system. It was merely for the one’s who wanted to contest there. Thirty yrs ago, they could have work with the education system here and brought it about. However, no, they prefer to be a loose cannon in the US farrier system and to me they are a bigger part of the problem than a solution that is my view anyhow. I will leave you with this quote:
“ Half the harm done in this world is due to people who want to feel important. They don’t mean to due harm, but harm does not interest them. “ T.S Elliot

Thanks for your ear, John C

" I am not young enough to know everything" Oscar Wilde
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RE:Is the AFA relevant to the VET COMMUNITY? 01 Feb 2009 08:04 #15

  • Clint Burrell
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Regarding John Corkery's post.I realy did'nt understand that rant. I think you may have misunderstood Rick,he was saying that AFA cirtification was NOT a big factor in working with vets in this area(yes,I Know Rick)however your skills as a farrier and your willingnesss to learn are.Those who don't want to learn or just can't do, don't need to be doing corrective work anyway.Or working on live animals for that matter.Clint Burrell AFA#9921 Not Cirtified,Veterinarian recomended.
Clint Burrell

"You say your from collage,
but you don't seem to bright.
You just brought a swichblade
to a pistol fight"
Move On by Chris Knight
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