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TOPIC: Is the AFA relevant to the THE HORSE OWNING PUBLIC?

RE:Is the AFA relevant to the THE HORSE OWNING PUBLIC? 14 Feb 2009 18:40 #196

Dances with Hooves OFFLINE Master Posts: 1345 Thank you received: 5 Karma: 3	tbloomer wrote: Quick, somebody insult Phil before he decides to leave. :cool: Phil, Let's face it you suck at farriery. I think you should put your farrier chaps on E-bay and purchase instead a pair of Pink full seat breeches and take up the practice of Dressage. Perhaps someday you will be able to ride a test better than you can balance a foot. Have a happy valentine's day!
	George Spear CNBBT, CNBF, CLS ".....and I said to the horse: Trust no man in whose eyes you do not see yourself reflected as an equal." Don Vincenzo Giobbe CA. 1700 "What people do not appreciate is that every time a horse submits to... The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:Is the AFA relevant to the THE HORSE OWNING PUBLIC? 14 Feb 2009 18:44 #197

Cyber Farrier OFFLINE Master Posts: 1624 Thank you received: 3 Karma: 0	Only because I know that was completely tongue-in-cheek will this thread continue. Baron
	“Suppose you were an ******. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself.” - Mark Twain “There is no distinctly native American criminal class... save Congress.” -Mark Twain “No man's life, liberty, or property is safe... The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:Is the AFA relevant to the THE HORSE OWNING PUBLIC? 14 Feb 2009 18:45 #198

solidrockshoer
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Gary_Miller wrote:

Eric, is not the only reason any of the WCB members compete at the convention is because that is where the AFT is selected.

I think the reason they go to convention to compete is because it's the afa convention and they want to be a part of it. The WCB team is already selected. I doubt the guys who just missed out on the WCB team are going to try out for the AFT.

If no one from the WCB competed at the convention then the competition would die, and the AFT would be selected at a WCB competition.JMO

I guess we'll see what happens at the convention. I don't have an inside track on anything but I get the funny feeling the top wcb guys are looking to make an impression at the convention. That's just my gut feeling, maybe I'm wrong.

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RE:Is the AFA relevant to the THE HORSE OWNING PUBLIC? 14 Feb 2009 18:58 #199

Phil Armitage OFFLINE Guru Posts: 9254 Karma: 0	tbloomer wrote: Could it be that when you are sourrounded by business people you forget that you are not just a farrier, but you are in the farrier business? Aren't you a business man? Tom, you make a good point. Never looked at it that way. I probably could use a lot of help in that area. I have to admit, that I'm probably not a very good business man.
	Phil Armitage, CF AFA member 7480 "Anyone who proposes to do good must not expect people to roll stones out of his way, but must accept his lot calmly if they even roll a few more upon it." Albert Schweitzer The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:Is the AFA relevant to the THE HORSE OWNING PUBLIC? 14 Feb 2009 19:01 #200

Phil Armitage OFFLINE Guru Posts: 9254 Karma: 0	Cyber Farrier wrote: Only because I know that was completely tongue-in-cheek will this thread continue. Baron It's okay Baron. At least George said Happy Valentines day.
	Phil Armitage, CF AFA member 7480 "Anyone who proposes to do good must not expect people to roll stones out of his way, but must accept his lot calmly if they even roll a few more upon it." Albert Schweitzer The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:Is the AFA relevant to the THE HORSE OWNING PUBLIC? 14 Feb 2009 19:06 #201

scruggs1
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tbloomer wrote:

John,

My local association has done something like this every year since we started in conjunction with a local equestian festival. We continue to get called back every year as it has always been a big hit with the festival attendees. So, from my own personal experience, I can see where your program would also be a big hit with horse owners.

Sooooo, why didn't this AFA marketing program take off and become a cornerstone of the AFA marketing outreach?

In all honesty, because I dropped the ball.

We had a slim budget that we spent on 2-3 clinics that year. They went very well and we were quite pleased. Shortly after the 2003 Convention in Salt Lake, I totally dropped the ball and left Craig hanging because I resigned my post and had a career change. I still regret it...

I can't speak for why it was not picked back up afterward, but for that particular place and time, the blame is mine.

Scruggs Farrier Service
John Scruggs, CJF

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RE:Is the AFA relevant to the THE HORSE OWNING PUBLIC? 14 Feb 2009 19:10 #202

Phil Armitage
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tbloomer wrote:

fairweatherforge wrote:

it.

Phil, you've come a long way and I'm very proud of you.

Quick, somebody insult Phil before he decides to leave. :cool:

Man you almost sapped the motivation right out of me. Good thing George replied as quick as he did. I can't help it, a product of my generation, slap me upside the head, kick me in the butt. Problem is, seems like this does not work on the younger guys. I try these things on new guys coming into the trade and they leave. :confused:

Phil Armitage, CF
AFA member 7480

"Anyone who proposes to do good must not expect people to roll stones out of his way, but must accept his lot calmly if they even roll a few more upon it." Albert Schweitzer

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RE:Is the AFA relevant to the THE HORSE OWNING PUBLIC? 14 Feb 2009 19:11 #203

solidrockshoer
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tbloomer wrote:

From my perspective, that is the real value of the WCB. Generating excitement and interest. However, there is also a down side to the situation. Sometimes the farriers who would benefit the most from participating in hands-on continuing education are less likely to take advantage of such opportunities because they are intimidated by the whole situation in the first place.

Those individuals need to take that leap of faith themselves. I new individuals show up at the WCB event all the time. Some like to watch just to get a feel to the situation. By the end of the day when they're hanging out drinking some beers with everybody they realize everyone's there having a good time.

The minute a farrier who lacks skill and proficiency picks up a tool or a horse's foot in front of an accomplished proficient clinician, their inadiquacy is exposed for everyone to see. THIS IS A PROBLEM. I consider it the biggest problem in our industry.

LOL! You know how it is, you're the best farrier in the world until somebody's watching you and "that's how I meant to do it" just isn't gonna work anymore. If working in front of somebody makes you nervous, at least you know you care about what you're doing.

How do we overcome this problem? What is it going to take for the skilled and educated farriers to attract the unskilled and uneducated into their circle? How do we create a situation where the inner desire to learn overshadows the self denial presented by the fragile ego?

WCB's already doing it. You have to be realistic though. You can only do it one person at a time then let that person go back and spread the word. Eventually it all starts to snowball.

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RE:Is the AFA relevant to the THE HORSE OWNING PUBLIC? 14 Feb 2009 19:30 #204

tbloomer
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Mike Ferrara wrote:

tbloomer wrote:

When one goes into a class or other training wouldn't it normally be assumed that the material, or some portion of the material, is new to them? Why would they be there if they had already mastered the material?

I'm not saying that you're wrong but I guess I don't get it.

I have had several farriers tell me point blank that they do not want to participate in a hands-on clinic because they were intimidated by the prospect of having their peers see their work. Some of them were beginners and some were farriers for decades.

Let me give you an analogy of sorts:

I've been playing the guitar for 42 years. About 80% of my playing ability was the result of strides I made before I reached age 16. I started with gospel, then moved to classical, then finger style jazz. I learned a little bit from every guitar player I met and along the way I helped a few guitar players myself. In my mid to late 20's I was good 'nuff to make a few bucks on weekends plaing solo gigs in some local pubs.

A few years ago I took my guitar to the wednesday night jam session at the AFA convention. There were a 'bout half a dozen farriers who brought thier guitars. When I started to play, everybody else put their guitars down. They couldn't keep up because what I was playing was a bit more complicated that C, G, D, strum, strum, strum. So I backed off of the more complicated chord progression and started playing less complicated music so that every body else could play along and feel comfortable. I wasn't looking for an audiance, I wanted to jamb. So I adapted what I was playing so that everyone else could participate in the fun.

One of the farriers in the jamb session asked me, "How'd you get so good at the guitar." I knew this particular farrier is a CJF and is well known as an accomplished professional. I answered him with this, "I got good at the Guitar the same way you got good at farriery. I hung out with guitar players that were better than me and asked them to teach me. AND I practiced tirelessly for many years."

In my analogy, a hands-on farrier clinic is a lot like that jamb session. If there's a farrier working in the fire that is really good, you might take a look around and see that a lot of other farriers have put thier hammers down. It's too fast and too complicated and they can't keep up or play along. Thus the student becomes a spectator and the learning stops.

Like jamb sessions, at farrier clinics there is a fine line between the enjoyment of skill sharing and the enjoyment of showing off. It's hard to learn from a showoff. Even harder to keep up if you're not already practiced and talented.

Tom Bloomer
http://blackburnforge.com
302-222-6404

Here's the deal. I'm trying to keep it simple.

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RE:Is the AFA relevant to the THE HORSE OWNING PUBLIC? 14 Feb 2009 19:40 #205

tbloomer OFFLINE Master Posts: 4622 Thank you received: 20 Karma: 1	Ok Eric, I've got an idea for how to get increased paricipation!!! Serve free beer at the beginning of the clinic. Then, everybody will bravely let go of their inhibitions and start working in the fire . . . Ok everybody we're gonna each do 4 shots of Jameson and then build a roadster. I'M IN!!!
	Tom Bloomer http://blackburnforge.com 302-222-6404 Here's the deal. I'm trying to keep it simple. The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:Is the AFA relevant to the THE HORSE OWNING PUBLIC? 14 Feb 2009 19:49 #206

Martin Kenny
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Hi guys, been a while since I have had a chance to get in here. Been a lot of good stuff written this week.

I was out in the clinic this AM and had about 15 minutes before my next client was to arrive. I noticed a note on my board to make a horse head hoof pick for a friend and took advantage of the spare time to get it made. While I was setting getting started, I thought, "Why waste the time between heats on my stock. Let's see if the old man can still make a horse shoe or not." So I found a section of steel and put it in to work on between heats on my stock for the hoof pick.

It has been tossed around on here (on more than one occasion, by more than one person) that just because I elect to shoe cold, these days, that somehow that makes me less of a Farrier. So I decided to see how it went making a shoe toady.

Now remember, that I have not made a shoe in over 6 years, and have not competed since 1987. I am posting a photo of the shoe I made this AM, just to offer that the old man can in fact still get-er-dun! It was made from COLD ROLLED 5/16 X 3/4 stock, that was rusted pretty well, (bought in 1992). Just want to warn Tom Stovall and Jaye Perry, that you will see hammer marks in the steel. Please forgive me, but it's been a while.

Took me 5 heats to make it, complete with the heel caulks. Frankly I am pretty pleased with my self!! LOL Not competitive quality, but hey the horse wouldn't care!

Attachments:

100_6344_0841.jpg (16KB)

If you feel shoeing horses is best served by how well you can work in the forge, you are missing the point!

It is how well you shoe a horse, so he performs at his best advantage, IN SPITE of his personal issues. Forge work is simply a tool that MAY be...

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RE:Is the AFA relevant to the THE HORSE OWNING PUBLIC? 14 Feb 2009 20:04 #207

Jaye Perry OFFLINE Guru Posts: 5653 Thank you received: 1 Karma: 0	Martin Kenny... Just want to warn Tom Stovall and Jaye Perry, that you will see hammer marks in the steel. Please forgive me, but it's been a while. . From my professional perpective it, the shoe, will suffice; Mr. Tom may have a different view of the shoe. Personal views of you may be continued at a later date:rolleyes:
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RE:Is the AFA relevant to the THE HORSE OWNING PUBLIC? 14 Feb 2009 22:19 #208

Rick Burten
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Phil Armitage wrote:

My wife has worked in the corporate environment for over 25 years as an executive assistant.

"Executive assistant". Isn't that PC speak for 'secretary'?

It is totally different when you walk through the front doors of a corporation meet up with a receptionist and security, walk the halls and everyone in suits look you over as you walk to your wife's office dressed in genes and a cotton shirt.

I might point out that without those genes(sic), you wouldn't be so would have no need of a cotton shirt.........

They love to ask each other what the other person does for a living at social events.

Perhaps the answer is, nothing. For unless you are the caterer or wait staff or hired entertainment, you are probably not doing anying for a living at social events....

I recall many moments when asked what I did the enthusiasm in the conversation immediately changed and ended abruptly to seek out another person to mingle with.

Have you considered it might be because of halitosis?

Not the life for me, I like my genes......

Then thank your ancestors.

Rick Burten PF

In the immortal words of Ron White: "But let me tell you something, folks: You can't fix S-tupid. There's not a pill you can take; there's not a class you can go to. S-tupid is forever."
."

Je pense donc je suis

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RE:Is the AFA relevant to the THE HORSE OWNING PUBLIC? 14 Feb 2009 22:29 #209

Rick Burten
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vthorseshoe wrote:

The WCB is about forging.
And is not affiliated with the AFA other than Craig is the past AFA President.

Ummmmm, Bruce, the WCB is an AFA chapter.

The way you folks are thinking has been part of the problem with the AFA.
Everyone has to get into a new frame of mind and realize the world is changing and the AFA has to change with it.

Actually, it doesn't. It(the AFA) can choose to muddle along status quo and be further relegated to the dung heap of history.

Tom Bloomer, as the newly elected President of the Guild, I am most interested in the things you will bring to the Guild, the projects you will start, the manner you bring folks together and the interest in the Guild you will bring to light.
I want to see what a Corporate person will actually do for a farrier Association.
I want to see how members react to your idea's and concepts.
I want to see how you handle situations and work through them.

"Judge Adam Fenton: You think I judged him too harshly? Used him for kindling my fire of justice? Well, maybe that's inevitable when there's only one man, one court, with the power of final justice over a territory that's five times the size of most states. Mistakes? Oh, I've made 'em, Cooper. Don't you doubt about that. Don't you doubt, either, there are times sitting up there in that judgement seat I wished, I prayed, that there was someone standing between me and God Almighty - someone with the power to say, "You're wrong, Fenton. You've made an error in law - that this man deserves another trial, this man here a reprieve, this man is innocent." But until this territory becomes a state with a governor and a state court of appeals, I am the law here - all the law. If you don't like that, you can cuss me till hell freezes over... or you can join me, Cooper; even fight me. Help me turn this God forsaken territory into a state where no one man calls himself the law. "

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0gscut1p4kY

:D

Rick Burten PF

In the immortal words of Ron White: "But let me tell you something, folks: You can't fix S-tupid. There's not a pill you can take; there's not a class you can go to. S-tupid is forever."
."

Je pense donc je suis

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RE:Is the AFA relevant to the THE HORSE OWNING PUBLIC? 14 Feb 2009 22:34 #210

Rick Burten OFFLINE Enforcer Posts: 9082 Thank you received: 50 Karma: 8	fairweatherforge wrote: I get the funny feeling the top wcb guys are looking to make an impression at the convention. For what reason, to what end?
	Rick Burten PF In the immortal words of Ron White: "But let me tell you something, folks: You can't fix S-tupid. There's not a pill you can take; there's not a class you can go to. S-tupid is forever." ." Je pense donc je suis The administrator has disabled public write access.