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TOPIC: Is the AFA still Relevant?

RE:Is the AFA still Relevant? 14 Mar 2009 12:55 #391

  • solidrockshoer
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Rick Burten wrote:
Mr. Lansing,

Have you ever pondered the question. "if the AFA standards are so much better, objective, sacrosanct, whatever, why it is that AFA examiners and testers use pencils not pens to score a candidate's work?

What do you think the outcome might be if:
1. All exams were required to be scored in PEN?
2. Whether in pen or pencil, no alterations to the score sheet were allowed
3. Whether in pen or pencil, any/all alteration(s) to the score sheet had to be accompanied by a written explanation by the examiner/tester ?
4. No replacement score sheets were allowed to be issued for any/all cadidate(s)?

As has already been pointed out, so long as a candidate averages sevens and acquires no threes or lower, that candidate will successfully complete the practical portion of the AFA exam(s).


How you get to the finished product isn't my concern. As long as a consistent standard is being met.
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RE:Is the AFA still Relevant? 14 Mar 2009 13:07 #392

tbloomer wrote:
Phil, please feel free to quote something I have posted that attacks something good that was said about the AFA.

Let this be your reality check; I have invested more of myself in the AFA and gotten more out of the AFA than you ever have or ever will. You can take that check to the bank.

Of course you have Tom. Self promotion seems to be your MO these days. How is that working out for you? :)
Phil Armitage, CF
AFA member 7480

"Anyone who proposes to do good must not expect people to roll stones out of his way, but must accept his lot calmly if they even roll a few more upon it." Albert Schweitzer
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RE:Is the AFA still Relevant? 14 Mar 2009 13:10 #393

  • Cyber Farrier
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Rick Talbert wrote:
... how bout a discount on tools or something we are actually gonna be purchasing?...

Have you checked out the tools/supplies discounts offered by the Co-Op?

Baron
“Suppose you were an ******. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself.”
- Mark Twain

“There is no distinctly native American criminal class... save Congress.”
-Mark Twain

“No man's life, liberty, or property is safe...
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RE:Is the AFA still Relevant? 14 Mar 2009 13:18 #394

  • ray steele
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Cyber Farrier wrote:
Have you checked out the tools/supplies discounts offered by the Co-Op?

Baron


Baron,
Is the quoted comment germaine to the thread title"Is the AFA still relevant? Please stay on the subject.

Any more of this and I will report you to what's his name.

Some folks just can't stay on subject!!!!

Regards

Ray Steele
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RE:Is the AFA still Relevant? 14 Mar 2009 13:23 #395

  • tbloomer
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Cyber Farrier wrote:
Have you checked out the tools/supplies discounts offered by the Co-Op?
Baron,

If I join the co-op and take advantage of all the discounts, will I be helping or harming the global economic crisis? :confused:

I don't care what Phil says about you. You're a stand up guy! ;)
Tom Bloomer
http://blackburnforge.com
302-222-6404


Here's the deal. I'm trying to keep it simple.
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RE:Is the AFA still Relevant? 14 Mar 2009 15:24 #396

  • ray steele
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Phil Armitage wrote:
Your welcome Ray

Bill Lansing in my opinion has done a great job stating his opinions respectfully and in a positive manner.

(rays comments)*
* Phil,

I would disagree with you, I know that if someone tells me that I don't matter, for whatever reason, I don't would not find it respectful, and I bet you a pint that you would not either. Positive or negative is subjective whenever one wishes to use it in any vague format.*





He has also been very helpful, for example the advice he gave to Mikel to improve his forging skills and to Gary about communicating with the AFA.

* Some might say*




I suppose he could have ignored the whole discussion.

*He might have, but he did not.*




The handful of complainers on this forum have demonstrated to me that they find entertainment in attacking the AFA.



* Your read, but I have observed many of these same folk repeat the issues fervently for a # of years, in similar discussion,which is, I believe one of the reasons for partaking in such blogs.*


Yes attacking is a strong word and I do not use it lightly. Just about every time something good is said about the AFA the same guys come out and attack it. Frankly it is tiring and one reason I have not participated as much as I use to. Mike, Gary and Tom B. have gone on and on with negative remarks about the AFA. I assume Bill Lansing has also grown tired of their constant complaints.


* I haven't used it but have seen it printed something about an ignore button, I'm guessing that you have seen the same over the years. If that was cause for Bill Lansing I'm sure someone more capable than I can explain its use.*

For most of the winter the pads worked well. The wet snow packed in, but no different than the amount that packs in a snow rim pad. Your going to hate me, but I can get a lot of resets out of them. :D


* Did you read the fine print, it's in invisible ink between the leather and the plastic, "Reuse of these pads requires that a monthly rent check be sent".

Regards

Ray Steele
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RE:Is the AFA still Relevant? 14 Mar 2009 15:35 #397

  • tbloomer
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ray steele wrote:
* Did you read the fine print, it's in invisible ink between the leather and the plastic, "Reuse of these pads requires that a monthly rent check be sent".

Regards

Ray Steele
How much of the original rental fee for the pads is retuned as a "secuity deposit" or applied as a credit toward a replacement set of "rental pads," if we return the pads to you when we no longer need them? :D
Tom Bloomer
http://blackburnforge.com
302-222-6404


Here's the deal. I'm trying to keep it simple.
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RE:Is the AFA still Relevant? 14 Mar 2009 15:57 #398

  • Rick Burten
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Bill Lansing wrote:
How you get to the finished product isn't my concern. As long as a consistent standard is being met.
Thats a cop-out. Answer the questions. Because my contention is that the AFA standard(s) is/are not consistent, are subject to human frailty and the whims/wishes of those doing the evaluations.
Rick Burten PF

In the immortal words of Ron White: "But let me tell you something, folks: You can't fix S-tupid. There's not a pill you can take; there's not a class you can go to. S-tupid is forever."
."


Je pense donc je suis
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RE:Is the AFA still Relevant? 14 Mar 2009 17:24 #399

ray steele wrote:
Phil,

Thanks for the example about "No Hoof No Horse", that may be the other part of the communication equation, listening. I 'm glad that your are getting more out of the relationship than before, but others are saying that they are not. I presume that a farrier org. would want to represent it's membership in total.

My post to Bill Lansing had mostly to do with his statement to the effect, that a handful of complainers don't amt to much in the scheme of things or words to that effect.

Regards

Ray Steele

I have plenty of problems with the AFA also, and I'm hopeful that some of the kinks will be worked out. I think the AFA does want to represent it's membership in total, however our reps weren't voted in by the membership in total. In other words, I didn't vote for Obama cause he stands for everything I'm against, do you think he wishes to represent my thoughts and feelings? No he represents his thoughts and feelings and those that agree with him. The same goes for any organization I know of.

However there is one exception to that rule. Area 4 BOD reps are in it for the people they represent. They called a special meeting at the convention for the area 4 members, filled us in on what was going on and asked us how they should vote on certain items. I respect that.

The problem with politics in general whether it's city, state, federal or farrier org's. most of the people running or sitting in office do/did it for their own personal gain/fame. Very few do it for the sake of the organization.

The AFA is running out of money, but the EC had the whole top floor of the Mariott paid for by the AFA. Is there something about those guys that doesn't allow them to sleep in a regular room like me?
"Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects." Will Rogers

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBimQu6Pxxs
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RE:Is the AFA still Relevant? 14 Mar 2009 18:18 #400

  • George Geist
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Dave Purves RJF wrote:
I have plenty of problems with the AFA also, and I'm hopeful that some of the kinks will be worked out. I think the AFA does want to represent it's membership in total, however our reps weren't voted in by the membership in total. In other words, I didn't vote for Obama cause he stands for everything I'm against, do you think he wishes to represent my thoughts and feelings? No he represents his thoughts and feelings and those that agree with him. The same goes for any organization I know of.

However there is one exception to that rule. Area 4 BOD reps are in it for the people they represent. They called a special meeting at the convention for the area 4 members, filled us in on what was going on and asked us how they should vote on certain items. I respect that.

The problem with politics in general whether it's city, state, federal or farrier org's. most of the people running or sitting in office do/did it for their own personal gain/fame. Very few do it for the sake of the organization.

The AFA is running out of money, but the EC had the whole top floor of the Mariott paid for by the AFA. Is there something about those guys that doesn't allow them to sleep in a regular room like me?
Dave,
There is something you and others overlook just as I did for a long time too.
Mr Stovall once said they are not a farriers organization. They are a "farriery" organization. This is true.

I think most working horseshoers look to them to be representative of folks like them. Problem is their are other folks at the table. There are manufacturers, suppliers, schools, vets, corporate sponsors etc etc etc.

These people also have business interests that AFA tries to represent and often times their interests are not always in the best interests of working horseshoers.

Before Phil and others get all upset understand I'm not bad mouthing them. Just laying out a few facts. It helps to see the whole picture. Now can anybody tell me how any organization can represent all these divergent interests without some if not all of them being dissatisfied?
George
For another fun place to play........
www.horseshoersforum.invisionzone.com
Come over and say hello.
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RE:Is the AFA still Relevant? 14 Mar 2009 19:47 #401

George Geist wrote:
Dave,
There is something you and others overlook just as I did for a long time too.
Mr Stovall once said they are not a farriers organization. They are a "farriery" organization. This is true.

I think most working horseshoers look to them to be representative of folks like them. Problem is their are other folks at the table. There are manufacturers, suppliers, schools, vets, corporate sponsors etc etc etc.

These people also have business interests that AFA tries to represent and often times their interests are not always in the best interests of working horseshoers.

Before Phil and others get all upset understand I'm not bad mouthing them. Just laying out a few facts. It helps to see the whole picture. Now can anybody tell me how any organization can represent all these divergent interests without some if not all of them being dissatisfied?
George

I understand what you're saying George, and won't disagree. However can you say that the same thing isn't true of our federal, state or local governments? Do you think that your congressman actually cares more about your interests than those that lobby for others at their door everyday? I don't quit being an American cause I hate the politics, I still pay my taxes.
"Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects." Will Rogers

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBimQu6Pxxs
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RE:Is the AFA still Relevant? 14 Mar 2009 20:26 #402

  • George Geist
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Dave Purves RJF wrote:
I understand what you're saying George, and won't disagree. However can you say that the same thing isn't true of our federal, state or local governments? Do you think that your congressman actually cares more about your interests than those that lobby for others at their door everyday? I don't quit being an American cause I hate the politics, I still pay my taxes.
Well, paying taxes isn't exactly voluntary is it? I'd venture to say that most people probably wouldn't if they didn't have to.

Aside from that I'll share with you another e-mail somebody sent me that I think is on track with what you say regarding government:

Politicians are the only people in the world who create problems and
> then campaign against them.
>
> Have you ever wondered, if both the Democrats and the Republicans are against deficits, WHY do we have deficits?
>
> Have you ever wondered, if all the politicians are against inflation
> and high taxes, WHY do we have inflation and high taxes?
>
> You and I don't propose a federal budget. The president does.
> You and I don't have the Constitutional authority to vote on
> appropriations. The House of representatives does.
>
> You and I don't write the tax code, Congress does.
>
> You and I don't set fiscal policy, Congress does.
>
> You and I don't control monetary policy, the Federal Reserve Bank does.
> One hundred senators, 435 congressmen, one president, and nine
> SupremeCourt justices 545 human beings out of the 300 million are
> directly,legally, morally, and individually responsible for the
> domestic problems that plague this country.
> I excluded the members of the Federal Reserve Board because that problem was created by the Congress. In 1913, Congress delegated its Constitutional duty to provide a sound currency to a federally chartered, but private, central bank.
>
> I excluded all the special interests and lobbyists for a sound reason.
> They have no legal authority. They have no ability to coerce a
> senator,a congressman, or a president to do one cotton-picking thing. I don't care if they offer a politician $1 million dollars in cash. The politician has the power to accept or reject it. No matter what the lobbyist promises, it is the legislator's responsibility to determine how he votes..
>
> Those 545 human beings spend much of their energy convincing you
> that what they did is not their fault. They cooperate in this common
> con regardless of party.
>
> What separates a politician from a normal human being is an
> excessive amount of gall. No normal human being would have the gall
> of a Speaker, who stood up and criticized the President for creating
> deficits. The president can only propose a budget. He cannot
> force the Congress to accept it.
>
> The Constitution, which is the supreme law of the land, gives sole
> responsibility to the House of Representatives for originating and
> approving appropriations and taxes. Who is the speaker of
> the House?
>
Nancy Pelosi. She is the leader of the majority party. She and fellow
> House members, not the president, can approve any budget they want. If the president vetoes it, they can pass it over his veto if they agree to.
>
> It seems inconceivable to me that a nation of 300 million can not
> replace 545 people who stand convicted -- by present facts -- of
> incompetence and irresponsibility. I can't think of a single
> domestic problem that is not traceable directly to those 545 people.
> When you fully grasp the plain truth that 545 people exercise the power of the federal government, then it must follow that what exists is what they want to exist.
>
> If the tax code is unfair, it's because they want it unfair.
>
> If the budget is in the red, it's because they want it in the red .
>
> If the Army & Marines are in IRAQ , it's because they want them in
> IRAQ
>
> If they do not receive social security but are on an elite retirement
> plan not available to the people, it's because they want it that way.
>
> There are no insoluble government problems.
>
> Do not let these 545 people shift the blame to bureaucrats, whom
> they hire and whose jobs they can abolish; to lobbyists, whose gifts
> and advice they can reject; to regulators, to whom they give the power to regulate and from whom they can take this power. Above all, do not let them con you into the belief that there exists disembodied mystical forces like "the economy," "inflation," or "politics" that prevent them from doing what they take an oath to do.
>
> Those 545 people, and they alone, are responsible.
>
> They, and they alone, have the power.
>
> They, and they alone, should be held accountable by the people who are their bosses.
>
> Provided the voters have the gumption to manage their own employees.
>
> We should vote all of them out of office and clean up their mess!
>
> Charlie Reese is a former columnist of theOrlando Sentinel Newspaper.
>
> What you do with this article now that you have read it... is up to
> you.



=
For another fun place to play........
www.horseshoersforum.invisionzone.com
Come over and say hello.
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RE:Is the AFA still Relevant? 15 Mar 2009 06:26 #403

  • tbloomer
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Dave Purves RJF wrote:
However there is one exception to that rule. Area 4 BOD reps are in it for the people they represent. They called a special meeting at the convention for the area 4 members, filled us in on what was going on and asked us how they should vote on certain items. I respect that.
Good on them. Instead of waiting to hear from the people they represent, they reached out, asked for input, and created an opportuinty for participation. Maby the idea will catch on with other area reps.
Tom Bloomer
http://blackburnforge.com
302-222-6404


Here's the deal. I'm trying to keep it simple.
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