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TOPIC: Is the AFA still Relevant?

Is the AFA still Relevant? 29 Jan 2009 01:02 #1

With the advent of the Co-Op and it’s obvious benefits, the apparent success of the WCB to attract and engage competitors and the International Hoofcare Summit’s obvious ability to provide a superior educational opportunities it seems to me that it is time to ask the most obvious question.

IS THE AFA still a viable and relevant organization?

In considering this question I have to think about the many issues that have been exposed over the last three years:

- We have to remember the divisive and destructive political activities that have driven so many willing volunteers away and cost so many members.

- We need recognize the ongoing failure of AFA management to develop and deliver a public relations and marketing plan that makes having an AFA certification relevant to the horse owning population.

- One needs to remember how the AFA’s relationship with AAEP has disintegrated.

- We need to recognize the total and absolute lack of transparent governance and the fact that the members of the AFA, almost regardless of how much effort they put in to track the happenings in the AFA, are almost completely shut out of the decision making process and are only presented with accomplished fact.

Personally I have begun to believe that things have begun to spiral out of control like an airplane that’s pilot is unconscious. I hear all the time from people that I respect and listen to that they are done and will not again renew their membership.

So what do you folks think? Is the AFA still viable and relevant?
Ronald E. Kramedjian, RJF

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"What is popular is not always right; what is right is not always popular." Unknown

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RE:Is the AFA still Relevant? 29 Jan 2009 01:16 #2

  • Gary_Miller
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I feel that the only thing currently going for the AFA is thier certification program. However, the relavence of the program is nothing without it being marketed to the horseowner public which the AFA seems to not what to do.

I will not be renewing my membeship this year due to I feel the AFA has nothing to offer me at this time. That I can't get else were.
Gary Miller, PF

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RE:Is the AFA still Relevant? 29 Jan 2009 01:23 #3

  • brian robertson
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the life insurance policy is still a good deal for $150 if they really pay out.
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RE:Is the AFA still Relevant? 29 Jan 2009 02:08 #4

  • JimBondra
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Ron,
You really going to grind that old axe again?
We all know how unfairly you were treated by the big bad AFA.
Get over it already:rolleyes:
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RE:Is the AFA still Relevant? 29 Jan 2009 02:23 #5

  • vthorseshoe
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Is the AFA still relevant.......


1. If a person chooses not to renew their membership it is a personal choice relevant to their own reasons.

Has nothing to do nor should it have anything to do with your or anyone elses reasons.


There is so much good you could be doing instead of harboring this festering anger inside yourself.

A man with your skills and talent and ability could and should be constructive in something positive and let go of the negative.


If you really want to rip the AFA apart then get your lawyer and take them to court.

Here is where I am probably going to irritate you.

I see you as the kid who was hollered at by the teacher and then spent the rest of his time trying to enlist everyone he could get to listen to him so he could get them to hate the teacher too.

People who harbour such anger to the point of letting it fester inside will eventually burn up. It has a way of overtaking everything in their lives and before long they end up all alone .


Come on Ron 'LET IT GO"

You are too smart and too talented to keep feeding this fire.

My 2 cents worth ;)
"you may not like what I say" !
-but-
"you'll never have any doubts where I stand
quote Cindy Matthews 1948-2006


I thought my life had come to a close with Cindy's passing, but there is life after death Thankyou Sharon !

Bruce Matthews
Southeast...
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RE:Is the AFA still Relevant? 29 Jan 2009 02:42 #6

  • BS-Horseshoeing
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It all depends on who you are, and what you see in the organization. As some say you get out of it what you put into it. That is not true for all, but nothing works for everyone.

I like the certification program, I don't care what some think, going through it has made me better at what I do. Other than the Guild there is no other program out there that has a cert. worth spit. So, for those of us who want to go through a certification, this is the best one. You don't like it don't do it.

The insurance is a good thing.

The network it has provided me is indespensible. This site has done that to, but the AFA has given me friends all over also, it's a good place to meet good people.

The magazine, though sparse in it's delivery, is ok.

So, to those who like it or see a use for it, yes it is viable. Those of you who don't like it, fine. But why keep trashing it? Leave it alone and it will leave you alone.
Ben Sturman
AFA CF #7558

Tough times never last, but tough people do!

Beware the lollipop of mediocrity, one lick and you will suck for ever!

Folks who think traditional farriery means perimeter fit don't know a heluva lot about shoeing. Tom Stovall,...
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RE:Is the AFA still Relevant? 29 Jan 2009 02:54 #7

Ronald E. Kramedjian wrote:
With the advent of the Co-Op and it’s obvious benefits, the apparent success of the WCB to attract and engage competitors and the International Hoofcare Summit’s obvious ability to provide a superior educational opportunities it seems to me that it is time to ask the most obvious question.

IS THE AFA still a viable and relevant organization?

In considering this question I have to think about the many issues that have been exposed over the last three years:

- We have to remember the divisive and destructive political activities that have driven so many willing volunteers away and cost so many members.

- We need recognize the ongoing failure of AFA management to develop and deliver a public relations and marketing plan that makes having an AFA certification relevant to the horse owning population.

- One needs to remember how the AFA’s relationship with AAEP has disintegrated.

- We need to recognize the total and absolute lack of transparent governance and the fact that the members of the AFA, almost regardless of how much effort they put in to track the happenings in the AFA, are almost completely shut out of the decision making process and are only presented with accomplished fact.

Personally I have begun to believe that things have begun to spiral out of control like an airplane that’s pilot is unconscious. I hear all the time from people that I respect and listen to that they are done and will not again renew their membership.

So what do you folks think? Is the AFA still viable and relevant?
Ron, Take a Gander over on the farriers helping horse owner general discussions, Hoof Butchery in NC, I think that is a great example why the AFA is, and alwayse will be relevant. Sorry you still have your Knickers -in -a Knot though !
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RE:Is the AFA still Relevant? 29 Jan 2009 03:40 #8

  • anvilsteve
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Bruce makes some good points, but the main question is, why does Ron K need to ask if the AFA is still relevant in theat tone? I know there is some baggage between Ron and the AFA, much of it of his own making. The real measure of a man is when you stick with the concept of the organization that you believe in, even when times are difficult. It is always easier when things are smooth. There are still good men & women working to keep the AFA missions going and we are making progress, sorry if it does not happen instantly. The certification program as well as the whole AFA is being agressively marketed now to farriers and horseowners, we expect to see encouraging results this coming year. The convention registration is also looking good.

I am actually glad Ron asked the question because it stimulates the conversation. But really, ask why he even needs to bring the subject up in the tone that he does, what does it matter to him at this point, unless he wants the AFA to do poorly, what good does that do? What a pitiful man!

Steve Kraus, CJF
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RE:Is the AFA still Relevant? 29 Jan 2009 03:55 #9

I know a lot of you think I started this thread because I hate the AFA and that I am eaten up with anger. I'd tell you that you are wrong and could list a lot of reasons you are wrong, but you wouldn't accept one word of it as true because if you did you would have to recognize that there are other possibilities.

I have had hundreds of conversations with AFA members and former members. The results of those conversations are not great. Two years ago almost everyone I talked to intended to stay in the AFA and the few that were thinking about leaving stayed because I asked them to. In the last two or three months I have not had one person tell me that they were going to stay. Instead I have heard from chapter presidents, testers, CJF's, CF's and even a few board members that they were not going to renew their memberships or were thinking strongly about resigning their positions and not renewing.

It seems to me that you folks that have chosen to dump your psychobabble BS on me because I asked a serious question that is spot on to the situation and perhaps requires a lot of real honesty to discuss. Perhaps more honesty than some of you are currently capable of being comfortable with.

Bruce, if the AFA is unwilling to have an honest conversation with itself and it’s members are unwilling to participate in that honest conversation then it will continue to loose members because of the demonstrated lack of interest in retaining them. The AFA’s behavior is the cause of its problems so it seems to me the reasons that members are not renewing have everything to do with the conversation and when people are openly talking about not renewing it is having an effect on those around them. You can’t solve the problem until you own it. The kumbiya song you and others are preaching has never solved a single real problem, it just makes people feel better as they go down together on a sinking ship.

I’ll admit that I am a bit angry. The AFA had, and it may still have, the potential to be a great organization and a powerhouse for real good in the life of horses and farriers. It truly upsets me to see so many good people walking away from the organization because it is being ostriched into oblivion by people that are not willing to admit to their mistakes and examine the current situation honestly with an intent to fix the problems instead of trying to fix the blame for them on anyone they can get the blame to stick to. I am still a member of the AFA and I have both the right and the obligation to kick up a fuss when I don’t like how things are going.

Bruce if you, or anyone else, wants to explain why you think the AFA is both viable and relevant in your opinion please do so. However, your unlicensed and unprofessional psychobabble is nothing more than a personal attack in disguise. It is an attempt to diminish my concerns and questions by diminishing me. While I fully expect it of some I’d have thought that was beneath you.
Ronald E. Kramedjian, RJF

Visit the Guild of Professional Farriers, Inc. Website

"What is popular is not always right; what is right is not always popular." Unknown

"In matters of style swim with the current; In matters of principle, stand like a...
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RE:Is the AFA still Relevant? 29 Jan 2009 04:01 #10

Ronald E. Kramedjian wrote:
I know a lot of you think I started this thread because I hate the AFA and that I am eaten up with anger. I'd tell you that you are wrong and could list a lot of reasons you are wrong, but you wouldn't accept one word of it as true because if you did you would have to recognize that there are other possibilities.

I have had hundreds of conversations with AFA members and former members. The results of those conversations are not great. Two years ago almost everyone I talked to intended to stay in the AFA and the few that were thinking about leaving stayed because I asked them to. In the last two or three months I have not had one person tell me that they were going to stay. Instead I have heard from chapter presidents, testers, CJF's, CF's and even a few board members that they were not going to renew their memberships or were thinking strongly about resigning their positions and not renewing.

It seems to me that you folks that have chosen to dump your psychobabble BS on me because I asked a serious question that is spot on to the situation and perhaps requires a lot of real honesty to discuss. Perhaps more honesty than some of you are currently capable of being comfortable with.

Bruce, if the AFA is unwilling to have an honest conversation with itself and it’s members are unwilling to participate in that honest conversation then it will continue to loose members because of the demonstrated lack of interest in retaining them. The AFA’s behavior is the cause of its problems so it seems to me the reasons that members are not renewing have everything to do with the conversation and when people are openly talking about not renewing it is having an effect on those around them. You can’t solve the problem until you own it. The kumbiya song you and others are preaching has never solved a single real problem, it just makes people feel better as they go down together on a sinking ship.

I’ll admit that I am a bit angry. The AFA had, and it may still have, the potential to be a great organization and a powerhouse for real good in the life of horses and farriers. It truly upsets me to see so many good people walking away from the organization because it is being ostriched into oblivion by people that are not willing to admit to their mistakes and examine the current situation honestly with an intent to fix the problems instead of trying to fix the blame for them on anyone they can get the blame to stick to. I am still a member of the AFA and I have both the right and the obligation to kick up a fuss when I don’t like how things are going.

Bruce if you, or anyone else, wants to explain why you think the AFA is both viable and relevant in your opinion please do so. However, your unlicensed and unprofessional psychobabble is nothing more than a personal attack in disguise. It is an attempt to diminish my concerns and questions by diminishing me. While I fully expect it of some I’d have thought that was beneath you.
I would try to associate myself with more optomistic people
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RE:Is the AFA still Relevant? 29 Jan 2009 04:11 #11

anvilsteve wrote:
why does Ron K need to ask if the AFA is still relevant in theat tone?
Steve,

There is no threat in my post. There are background facts and a serious question. If you see a threat please explain exactly how you managed to construct it out of what I wrote.

anvilsteve wrote:
The real measure of a man is when you stick with the concept of the organization that you believe in, even when times are difficult. It is always easier when things are smooth.

Gee. I am still a member Steve. I haven’t given up yet.

anvilsteve wrote:
But really, ask why he even needs to bring the subject up in the tone that he does, what does it matter to him at this point, unless he wants the AFA to do poorly, what good does that do?
The AFA, by my perception of the facts that I am aware of, appears to be in a bit of trouble. I’d like to see it do better and I believe that the members should have a strong, honest and open discussion of what is causing them to leave so that you folks in management will listen, learn and act. Since you folks have taken away the members only section of the AFA website were I would have posted this thread had it been available, I posted it here. There are an awful lot of AFA members that participate here you know. Given the renowned lack of communication to the membership level about the problems and proposed solutions it seemed a good idea.

anvilsteve wrote:
What a pitiful man!

First, it is a shame that you feel that way. Second, it is a shameful example statesmanship that you feel it is acceptable to say so in such a public attack on my character. But I understand that is the only tool you seem to have available to you. I would have hoped better of you.
Ronald E. Kramedjian, RJF

Visit the Guild of Professional Farriers, Inc. Website

"What is popular is not always right; what is right is not always popular." Unknown

"In matters of style swim with the current; In matters of principle, stand like a...
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RE:Is the AFA still Relevant? 29 Jan 2009 04:46 #12

  • Bill Adams
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If you think it is send $150. If not don't worry about it.

A rightous man regardeth the life of his beast. Proverbs 12:10
I don't give a damn for a man who can only spell a word one way. Mark Twain
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RE:Is the AFA still Relevant? 29 Jan 2009 05:01 #13

  • tbloomer
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anvilsteve wrote:
The certification program as well as the whole AFA is being agressively marketed now to farriers and horseowners,
Where and how is this agressive marketing taking place? I subscribe the The Horse and Equus. Can I look forward to seeing something from the AFA in those magazines next month? Is there an impending update for the web site with content geared toward attracting the attention of horse owners? This is exciting news. But thus far I haven't seen any evidence of agressive marketing for the AFA certification program. It would help me a lot if you could tell me where to look.
We expect to see encouraging results this coming year.
Please clarify what results you are expecting. Is there a new strategy about to unfold? If so, will we see that published in the next newsletter?
The convention registration is also looking good.
Good compared to other years? Good compared to the IHCS? Can you qualtify what looking good means by comparison to previous events?
I am actually glad Ron asked the question because it stimulates the conversation. But really, ask why he even needs to bring the subject up in the tone that he does, what does it matter to him at this point, unless he wants the AFA to do poorly, what good does that do? What a pitiful man!
Ron has always been forthright, honest, and kept his word with me. Furthermore he has kept his word and followed through to completion on tasks he agreed to do. This he has done in many situations where it cost him considerable time, personal expense and effort to do so.

OTOH, there have been some pitiful political upheavals in the AFA over the past few years. Each new president and EC has sought a particular direction and vision. According to th AFA constitution, the BoD is supposed to come up with the direction and vision and the EC is supposed to EXECUTE that vision and manage it on a daily basis. This has not worked out according to the objectives and thought process behind the formation of the AFA's charter. The result is many many short term tactical changes and no long term strategic direction.

Reducing the size of the BoD was supposed to slove this problem. Perhaps in hind sight the problem is not too many cooks. Perhaps the problem is too many recipies. Maybe if all the cooks could agree on one recipie and then go to work cooking it, the AFA could have a happy meal. :cool:
Tom Bloomer
http://blackburnforge.com
302-222-6404


Here's the deal. I'm trying to keep it simple.
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RE:Is the AFA still Relevant? 29 Jan 2009 06:13 #14

  • T.N. Trosin
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Gary_Miller wrote:
I will not be renewing my membeship this year due to I feel the AFA has nothing to offer me at this time. That I can't get else were.

WHOOOOOOh.............. sorry just fell out of my chair at the revelation that Gary Miller won't be renewing his dues......... again.

Have what you want where you want, i am still not clear on the whole new and improved HSDC, but as long as people want to learn something about shoeing a horse the AFA will be relevant.
Soliceter General Warning: This message may not have been spell checked for your protection
Just a piece of advice, think to yourself is this something I would say in front of a client, before your click the submit button.
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RE:Is the AFA still Relevant? 29 Jan 2009 07:18 #15

  • vthorseshoe
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Bruce if you, or anyone else, wants to explain why you think the AFA is both viable and relevant in your opinion please do so. However, your unlicensed and unprofessional psychobabble is nothing more than a personal attack in disguise. It is an attempt to diminish my concerns and questions by diminishing me. While I fully expect it of some I’d have thought that was beneath you.

Ron I am going over my own remarks for the third time and I have yet to see where I attacked your integrity.

There is so much good you could be doing instead of harboring this festering anger inside yourself.

A man with your skills and talent and ability could and should be constructive in something positive and let go of the negative.


Come on Ron 'LET IT GO"

You are too smart and too talented to keep feeding this fire.


Sounds like a person who is giving advice to a person he has enjoyed talking with.

Psyco-babble ?
Granted I am not a licensed therapist but since I have been privy to both sides of the spectrum and heard many versions of what took place,
I do believe you had nothing but the best of intentions.
I also believe you gave much of your time and at I am sure a $ cost to you in some manner or form.

But here is where I personally think you go wrong;
you are a dominate personality.
You are a forcefully, strong personality.
You yourself told me you stood up to folks in the corporate world and told them things they didn't like to accomplish the job at hand.

I have concluded in my own mind after listening to so many sides of the events, and much of my conclusion comes from listening to you.
You came on too forceful.
Had you been more diplomatic. Had you found other ways to get your idea's and points across, you might have had more success.
example; "your own words" They wanted the pass word.... I told them they didn't have a need to know...
Whether they had a need or didn't have the need to know, IT IS YOUR APPROACH.

Now you have lashed back at me for saying to you--Ron just drop it and move on.

In your last post I see you playing both side of the fence.
On one hand you tell every one the sky is falling
On the other hand you say but wait !! I am still a member and I am willing to help save it.

Tom Bloomer brought his thoughts . HERE ARE MINE;

I have said all along that
1. the folks running the AFA appear to be going in seperate directions at times.,

2. Once something is voted on and passed then it should be the commitment of all the folks to get behind the idea and work hard to make it or at least give it every chance to succeed.

3. Lack of communication

4. lack of reponce from regional reps.
(I have heard of one region where their reps took the job seriouslky and have kept their chapters updated as they were elected to do.
They have visited their regions chapters and made themselves available to the chapters.)

Until I started asking questions and I e-mailed all 3 of our reps and spoke with one in person our chapter hadn't heard word one from them.
I had an e-mail from all 3 of them and 1 promise's to come to one or some of our events.
The third resigned due to health concerns.



Now why I resigned as Committee Chairman'

5. I resigned not out of anger,
not out of dislike for ANYONE,
not because I want it to fail.
ON THE CONTRARY I resigned because I felt lacking in my own abilities to full fill the task given to me.

I felt left out in the dark because of lack of communication.

I also was extremely embarrassed because I blew up at Tom Trosin for not getting back to me.
I later learned he had promised his wife a weekend away from all HORSE RELATED things and hadn't read my e-mails.
I LET MY AS- OVERLOAD MY MOUTH and made a fool of myself.


So you see Ron I can find fault with the workings of the AFA, BUT I also can find fault with myself...

Do I believe in the AFA ? Of course I do.
Are they necessary ? In many ways.... top of the list in my book is the networking that comes from members who seek out others to learn from.

I still believe it is a great organization founded on strong principles and has MANY dedicated and caring people involved.
I believe any learning institute is a valuable asset to any farrier's education.
They all present opportunities to learn and advance one's skills and knowledge.

These other venue's have popped up through the years because of folks disagreeing with
or feeling they could do a better job of,
or to fill needs of others who felt the mother ship was dead in the water.

What is so bad or uncommon of this ??? Nothing !
Take religion and look at all the different variations of Christianity or other religions.
They are off shoots of the mother ship because some folks disagreed with the venue
or course taken
or disagreed with folks running the venue or felt they had a better idea.

The egg is liked by most folks... Just how it is prepared is where folks differ. but the common ground starts with the egg.

my 2 cents worth
"you may not like what I say" !
-but-
"you'll never have any doubts where I stand
quote Cindy Matthews 1948-2006


I thought my life had come to a close with Cindy's passing, but there is life after death Thankyou Sharon !

Bruce Matthews
Southeast...
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