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TOPIC: 'lest there be any doubt

RE:'lest there be any doubt 29 Oct 2008 15:03 #61

  • Gary_Miller
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Mike Ferrara wrote:
This is all about making someone else pay for your medical care, your education, your whatever!
Your so right.

And BO is promising it all and more for free.

Oh wait, no he's not, he's going to take the money from others in the form of taxes and give it to you so you can have it all with out having to do anything.

Mike Ferrara wrote:
The cost of medical care has become rediculous (the quality of care and service has also declined) but it's because of government and insurance companies. If the market isn't tampered with, health care providers have no choice but to charge what the market can, and is willing to, pay.
So true. So true.

Mike Ferrara wrote:
Trade your OWN money for the products and services provided to you...now there's an interesting and novel concept.
Come on this is not a very realistic idea.:eek:

I bet you even want those on welfare to work for what they get. You hate monger you.:D
Gary Miller, PF

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RE:'lest there be any doubt 29 Oct 2008 15:52 #62

  • Steve Swain
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I apologize that the numbers aren't exact but they are within a few points. I saw this on Glenn Beck. Since 1980 the cost of fuel has risen 189% medical cost have risen 269% and education has risen 489%. Why aren't people screaming about the cost of education at our fine liberal learning institutions? As for Barry O, how can anyone with half a brain support him? Read his book Dreams of my father, it's amazing that someone with his ideas can be this close to being President. I've busted my hump for what I have, I don't want someone who has never had a real job deciding that I have to much and some one else needs part of my stuff. The elephants messed up when they didn't chose Romney.
I stink, therefore I am.............a farrier.
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RE:'lest there be any doubt 29 Oct 2008 17:12 #63

  • vthorseshoe
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I opened it up for you folks to give an indication of whom you would have wanted in office and yet only one has made mention that the powers to be messed up by not accepting Romney.

Instead you continue to bash each other for your individual thoughts on your particular candidates, primarily Obama.

Its not hard to understand how the Civil War got started and was continuously fueled .

To debate, discuss, and disagree is healthy.
To down right call others names and demean others for their choices
on what they believe to be the facts is what causes pure division instead of advancing unity.

I find the folks on this board to be a great example of the nation as a whole.

1. folks willing to work out differences of opinions with respect of others
opinions at the same time.

2. folks who have their opinion and won't budge an inch

3. folks who want to be left alone on their island and don't want anyone telling them how to live.
Yet they enjoy and reap the benifits of the very society they are so upset with.

4. folks who cause a constant riff yet offer no solution

I can't for the life of me figure out why anyone would want to be the head of any nation and have to cope with all the different peoples wants and dissatisfactions.

my 2 cents worth ;)
"you may not like what I say" !
-but-
"you'll never have any doubts where I stand
quote Cindy Matthews 1948-2006


I thought my life had come to a close with Cindy's passing, but there is life after death Thankyou Sharon !

Bruce Matthews
Southeast...
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RE:'lest there be any doubt 29 Oct 2008 17:27 #64

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I simply asked for counter-proof of the list I posted (which, btw, I didn't make up but was passing along.) ... As USUAL, whenever a supporter for Obama is asked to counter statements made by a non-supporter the name calling and personal attacks begin. I don't believe I personally attacked anyone. I posted what I believe to be true and then asked a simple question. I've been trying for weeks to get answers ... if you are supporting Obama WHY? What changes do you believe he's going to bring about that will better our lives in this country? HOW is he going to do this? ... anyone here wanna answer that or will we simply have to be satisfied with name calling and derogatory personal comments? Perhaps you'd like to also discuss infanticide? Oh ... never mind. THAT would be too tough.
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RE:'lest there be any doubt 29 Oct 2008 17:34 #65

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Oh! And hey! Anytime one of you would like to implement the resdistribution of the wealth you can start sending me a check for $50 a week. Email to me privately and I'll be happy to furnish my mail address to you. :p
:) -- Gwen Santagate
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RE:'lest there be any doubt 29 Oct 2008 17:44 #66

  • vthorseshoe
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Hi Gwen;

What is infanticide ?

I suppose I can look it up but would like to know what your def is...:D

Hows business and are you still being safe and healthy ?

Are you coming to Cornell ?
"you may not like what I say" !
-but-
"you'll never have any doubts where I stand
quote Cindy Matthews 1948-2006


I thought my life had come to a close with Cindy's passing, but there is life after death Thankyou Sharon !

Bruce Matthews
Southeast...
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RE:'lest there be any doubt 29 Oct 2008 17:49 #67

  • Mike Ferrara
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vthorseshoe wrote:
I find the folks on this board to be a great example of the nation as a whole.

1. folks willing to work out differences of opinions with respect of others
opinions at the same time.

2. folks who have their opinion and won't budge an inch

3. folks who want to be left alone on their island and don't want anyone telling them how to live.
Yet they enjoy and reap the benifits of the very society they are so upset with.

You're catching on. Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness! Our founders saught to maximize personal liberty and minimize interference especially from the government.

There isn't any reason for you or I to care what the other thinks until one of us starts trying to force their way on the other.

There's nothing to work out and no reason to budge...go your own way, take responsibility for it and good luck to you.

You don't like me wanting to "be an island"? Now we have a problem but you chose it.

4. folks who cause a constant riff yet offer no solution

A solution for what?
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RE:'lest there be any doubt 29 Oct 2008 17:56 #68

  • Mike Ferrara
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vthorseshoe wrote:
Hi Gwen;

What is infanticide ?

I suppose I can look it up but would like to know what your def is...:D

I believe she's refering to the killing of unborn (and sometimes born) children...abortion.
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RE:'lest there be any doubt 29 Oct 2008 17:59 #69

  • caballus
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Specifically, the throwing away in dirty linen closets those babies who are the results of botched abortions AND ... the murdering of full term or nearly full term babies by partial birth abortion.

Somehow I just don't have the stomach to go along with yanking a baby partially out of his mother's womb then stabbing him in the back of the head/neck and sucking out his brains.

that's infanticide.

More formally defined as: in⋅fan⋅ti⋅cide   /ɪnˈfæntəˌsaɪd/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [in-fan-tuh-sahyd] Show IPA Pronunciation

–noun 1. the act of killing an infant.
2. the practice of killing newborn infants.
3. a person who kills an infant.
:) -- Gwen Santagate
“Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.” -- Albert Einstein
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RE:'lest there be any doubt 29 Oct 2008 18:01 #70

  • caballus
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Hi Bruce. Doing well, thx. And no, I'm afraid I won't be at Cornell. Gotta keep workin' ... :) Business is keeping me busy! :)
:) -- Gwen Santagate
“Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.” -- Albert Einstein
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RE:'lest there be any doubt 29 Oct 2008 18:37 #71

  • IRNWKR_2
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caballus wrote:
Specifically, the throwing away in dirty linen closets those babies who are the results of botched abortions AND ... the murdering of full term or nearly full term babies by partial birth abortion.

Somehow I just don't have the stomach to go along with yanking a baby partially out of his mother's womb then stabbing him in the back of the head/neck and sucking out his brains.

that's infanticide.

More formally defined as: in⋅fan⋅ti⋅cide   /ɪnˈfæntəˌsaɪd/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [in-fan-tuh-sahyd] Show IPA Pronunciation

–noun 1. the act of killing an infant.
2. the practice of killing newborn infants.
3. a person who kills an infant.

Gwen, I think they would prefer the words "pro choice" Its a little easier for the Libs to swallow.

But however you say it this shold be enough to turn anyone away from osama.
Jason Gilliland
"whether you think you can or think you caint your usually right" Henry Ford

"Im not as good as I once was, but Im just as good once as I ever was" My Grandad

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RE:'lest there be any doubt 29 Oct 2008 18:48 #72

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While I fully appreciate the English language and all it has to hold, the truth is the truth no matter how its padded or d-u-m-b-ed down. I'm sorry if the Libs have a hard time swallowing any other term but "Pro Choice" but ya know what? In reality we ALL are "Pro Choice" .. meaning we ALL have the right to make our own decisions and then take the consequences and be held PERSONALLY ACCOUNTABLE for our own actions. That's where the Libs and I differ big time. The ones who DON'T have choices are the children and animals in this world. It is up to those of us who do have choices to be superior stewards for them and speak up for those who cannot speak up for themselves.

THAT'S accountability in my book. I'm held accountable for those lives that come into mine who cannot speak for themselves. I hold MYSELF accountable and know that, in the end, God will too.
:) -- Gwen Santagate
“Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.” -- Albert Einstein
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RE:'lest there be any doubt 29 Oct 2008 19:48 #73

  • Tom Stovall CJF
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caballus in gray

While I fully appreciate the English language and all it has to hold, the truth is the truth no matter how its padded or d-u-m-b-ed down. I'm sorry if the Libs have a hard time swallowing any other term but "Pro Choice" but ya know what? In reality we ALL are "Pro Choice" .. meaning we ALL have the right to make our own decisions and then take the consequences and be held PERSONALLY ACCOUNTABLE for our own actions.

One hates to interrupt a good right wing rant, but in the English language, the generally accepted definition of "infancy" in humans is the period between birth and one year old while "infanticide" is the murder of an infant.

That's where the Libs and I differ big time. The ones who DON'T have choices are the children and animals in this world.

So what? While it's fashionable among rightists to attempt to redefine problematic terminology, a fetus is neither an infant nor a child - it's simply a fetus and the correct term for aborting a fetus is "abortion." In the United States, society has granted women the right to choose whether or not to carry a fetus to term.

It is up to those of us who do have choices to be superior stewards for them and speak up for those who cannot speak up for themselves.


What a woman chooses to do with her body is simply none of society's business.

THAT'S accountability in my book. I'm held accountable for those lives that come into mine who cannot speak for themselves.

If you don't believe in abortion, don't have one. But, your rights are granted by societal imperative, not by some watchful deity, and these rights end where another's begin. You can make choices for yourself, you don't get to make choices for another woman.

I hold MYSELF accountable and know that, in the end, God will too.


In reality, you "know" no such thing! You believe in a God, but you don't know a God exists - and belief, no matter how fervent, is not knowledge. :)
Tom Stovall, CJF
"The only foolish question is the one left unasked."
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RE:'lest there be any doubt 29 Oct 2008 20:19 #74

  • Mike Ferrara
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Tom Stovall, CJF wrote:
caballus in gray

While I fully appreciate the English language and all it has to hold, the truth is the truth no matter how its padded or d-u-m-b-ed down. I'm sorry if the Libs have a hard time swallowing any other term but "Pro Choice" but ya know what? In reality we ALL are "Pro Choice" .. meaning we ALL have the right to make our own decisions and then take the consequences and be held PERSONALLY ACCOUNTABLE for our own actions.

One hates to interrupt a good right wing rant, but in the English language, the generally accepted definition of "infancy" in humans is the period between birth and one year old while "infanticide" is the murder of an infant.

That's where the Libs and I differ big time. The ones who DON'T have choices are the children and animals in this world.

So what? While it's fashionable among rightists to attempt to redefine problematic terminology, a fetus is neither an infant nor a child - it's simply a fetus and the correct term for aborting a fetus is "abortion." In the United States, society has granted women the right to choose whether or not to carry a fetus to term.

It is up to those of us who do have choices to be superior stewards for them and speak up for those who cannot speak up for themselves.


What a woman chooses to do with her body is simply none of society's business.

THAT'S accountability in my book. I'm held accountable for those lives that come into mine who cannot speak for themselves.

If you don't believe in abortion, don't have one. But, your rights are granted by societal imperative, not by some watchful deity, and these rights end where another's begin. You can make choices for yourself, you don't get to make choices for another woman.

I hold MYSELF accountable and know that, in the end, God will too.


In reality, you "know" no such thing! You believe in a God, but you don't know a God exists - and belief, no matter how fervent, is not knowledge. :)

All well and good Tom but we are forced to be part of it by how some of our tax money is used and even by what they bring into the government schools.

Laws that get around parental concent where the mother is under age are way beyond the pale.

Society hasn't condoned abortion. Only a portion of society does and it was the Supreme court that made it legal.

Call it a fetus or a child, makes no difference. I can't think of a more vile act.

Bruce, this is one good example of an issue that must cause a devide.
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RE:'lest there be any doubt 29 Oct 2008 20:25 #75

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Tom Stovall, CJF wrote:
caballus in gray

While I fully appreciate the English language and all it has to hold, the truth is the truth no matter how its padded or d-u-m-b-ed down. I'm sorry if the Libs have a hard time swallowing any other term but "Pro Choice" but ya know what? In reality we ALL are "Pro Choice" .. meaning we ALL have the right to make our own decisions and then take the consequences and be held PERSONALLY ACCOUNTABLE for our own actions.

One hates to interrupt a good right wing rant, but in the English language, the generally accepted definition of "infancy" in humans is the period between birth and one year old while "infanticide" is the murder of an infant.

That's where the Libs and I differ big time. The ones who DON'T have choices are the children and animals in this world.

So what? While it's fashionable among rightists to attempt to redefine problematic terminology, a fetus is neither an infant nor a child - it's simply a fetus and the correct term for aborting a fetus is "abortion." In the United States, society has granted women the right to choose whether or not to carry a fetus to term.

It is up to those of us who do have choices to be superior stewards for them and speak up for those who cannot speak up for themselves.


What a woman chooses to do with her body is simply none of society's business.

THAT'S accountability in my book. I'm held accountable for those lives that come into mine who cannot speak for themselves.

If you don't believe in abortion, don't have one. But, your rights are granted by societal imperative, not by some watchful deity, and these rights end where another's begin. You can make choices for yourself, you don't get to make choices for another woman.

I hold MYSELF accountable and know that, in the end, God will too.


In reality, you "know" no such thing! You believe in a God, but you don't know a God exists - and belief, no matter how fervent, is not knowledge. :)

Tom ... not about to get into any belief discussion with you. You can tell me what I "know" or don't "know" as much as you wish but it ain't gonna change what I know! *GRIN*

As for infacticide ... once the "fetus" is taken from the mother's womb he is then defined as an infant. so, by definition, "partial birth abortion" is infanticide. That being said ...

AND ... if MY tax dollars are going to help support abortion then it IS MY BUSINESS. Which, they do. But, every woman does have the right to make her own choices ... and then experience whatever consequences there are to follow. Every man, also, has the right to make his own choices ... and then experience whatever consdequences there are to follow.

Right wing? Far from it. Way closer to Libertarian, my friend even though I'm registered as an Independant. I strongly believe in choice ... we have the right to make our own choices whether right or wrong. Then, as I said, we also are to be held personally accountable for the choices we do make.
:) -- Gwen Santagate
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