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TOPIC: 'lest there be any doubt

RE:'lest there be any doubt 29 Oct 2008 02:38 #46

  • Gary_Miller
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I don't understand how any sound thinking person could vote for someone who comes right out and says. They plan to take money form someone who has worked hard for it and give it to someone else (who hasn't worked for).

As far as health care in the United States of America. We have the best health care system in the world. Everyone can get health care where ever they choose. I know of no one who has ever been turned away from getting health care. Even if you can't afford it you can usually get necessary health care. If you need help there is always health insurance.

All one has to do is be willing to pay for it.
Gary Miller, PF

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RE:'lest there be any doubt 29 Oct 2008 11:45 #47

Gary_Miller wrote:
All one has to do is be willing to pay for it.
Gary,

Sorry to say this but you are so out of touch on this you must be on the Bush or McCain staff.

I can most certianly afford health insurance. Not one insurance company in my state will insure me. I have a preexisting health problem that prevents it. Nothing serious mind you. A moderate level sleep disorder. If it wasn't for the VA I would get no health care at all, not that the VA does much for me beyond the bare neccessities anyway.
Ronald E. Kramedjian, RJF

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RE:'lest there be any doubt 29 Oct 2008 11:55 #48

I've spent a lot of time thinking about Gwen’s post and I am still thinking about it. Other than the fact that it is the most libelous lie ridden excrement that I have seen to date I can not think of much more to say.

However I do observe that Gwen’s post is a true indicator of the kind of attacks that have become all to common in the Roven playbook and that this has so lowered the level of political debate in this country that people no longer feel embarrassed to lie openly, but are emboldened to do so. It is this change, this willingness of common otherwise honest people to lie about others, that has become epidemic and that will in my opinion be the most long lasting and damaging result of Karl Rove and the Bush politics of hate.
Ronald E. Kramedjian, RJF

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RE:'lest there be any doubt 29 Oct 2008 13:06 #49

  • vthorseshoe
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This is exactly what I have been saying !!!

With all the half truths told by BOTH SIDES who knows what to believe ????

Lieing has poluted the political system from the begining of time and it contiunues today.

The average person vote on the following reasons;

face recognition

family influence/friend influence

name recognition

what they see on TV and hear on radio

influenced by celebrities

eany meany moe/ flip a coin

"well he did a good job so far" yet they haven't a clue what he did.

"I am a Republican" or "I am a Democrat" and vote only on their parties affiliation and not on the candidates merit.

Believe the hype that comes across like a southern preacher gets his congregation to sing and dance.

A very few actually listen and do some sort of research.

ALL BECAUSE OF ALL THE LIE'S AND HA;F TRUTHS THAT ARE TOLD BY BOTH PARTIES....

Who the heck are we supposed to believe ? NO ONE !!!

my 2 cents worth ;)
"you may not like what I say" !
-but-
"you'll never have any doubts where I stand
quote Cindy Matthews 1948-2006


I thought my life had come to a close with Cindy's passing, but there is life after death Thankyou Sharon !

Bruce Matthews
Southeast...
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RE:'lest there be any doubt 29 Oct 2008 13:10 #50

  • caballus
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Other than the fact that it is the most libelous lie ridden excrement that I have seen to date I can not think of much more to say.
If stating whose one's mentors, friends and fathers are and have been is considered lying; if stating documented history is considered an attack then we are in serious trouble. Can you show us the "other" side to counter the statements and list I posted?
However I do observe that Gwen’s post is a true indicator of the kind of attacks that have become all to common in the Roven playbook and that this has so lowered the level of political debate in this country that people no longer feel embarrassed to lie openly, but are emboldened to do so.
One question to those of you who feel attacked - Knowing Obama's background and past political involvements, knowing his present deceptions (all his records sealed), knowing that 20 years of his life was spent listening to Black Liberation Theology, knowing that he supports known terrorists and "liberators" - knowing that would you allow Barrack Hussein Obama to babysit for your children? Or, if you were hiring someone to run your business and found this information such as BO has in his background during a background check, would you hire him to run your business?
:) -- Gwen Santagate
“Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.” -- Albert Einstein
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RE:'lest there be any doubt 29 Oct 2008 13:28 #51

  • Mike Ferrara
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Well, there isn't much you can do about the people who vote based on looks or who will be influenced by celebrities.

The fact that we can't really believe the candidates themselves is a problem. Let's face it, they often say whatever they think will get them elected...which isn't all bad but when in office, they do what they want.

However, it gets easier when you completely disagree with what a candidate says. That's certainly the case for me in this election. I have strongly disagreed with every proposal that I have heard from Obama. It doesn't matter what anybody else says about Obama. I don't like what Obama says about Obama.

If he is elected I hope that he does NOT do what he promised because I think it's all wrong!

I think McCain is pretty wrong headed too. I didn't pick him and the only thing that can get me to vote for McCain is for the other choice to be someone like Obama. To be plain, I'm not voting for McCain, but rather, against Obama.

As far as being aligned with a party....Members of the parties stick together. You can't judge a candidate as an individual alone because, to one extent or another, their views and their voting ARE aligned with those of the party.

There's plenty that I don't like about the rupublican party and individual republicans but there are too many issues that I see as key where the democratic party stance is WAY of the scale of anything that I could ever condone. 40 years ago, I may have been able to vote for a democrat, but these days, there just isn't any way that I could.
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RE:'lest there be any doubt 29 Oct 2008 13:41 #52

  • vthorseshoe
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Out of curiosity;

If you could elect the person of your choice, "WHOM WOULD EACH OF YOU WANT TO SEE IN OFFICE"? and why

my 2 cents worth ;)
"you may not like what I say" !
-but-
"you'll never have any doubts where I stand
quote Cindy Matthews 1948-2006


I thought my life had come to a close with Cindy's passing, but there is life after death Thankyou Sharon !

Bruce Matthews
Southeast...
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RE:'lest there be any doubt 29 Oct 2008 13:51 #53

  • Mike Ferrara
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vthorseshoe wrote:
Out of curiosity;

If you could elect the person of your choice, "WHOM WOULD EACH OF YOU WANT TO SEE IN OFFICE"? and why

my 2 cents worth ;)

I don't know. There are a few people who I would be interested in hearing more from but they aren't talking because they aren't running.
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RE:'lest there be any doubt 29 Oct 2008 13:52 #54

caballus wrote:
Can you show us the "other" side to counter the statements and list I posted?
Gwen,

Your potential to garner any credibility at all died when you posted that Mr. Obama was a member of or active in HAMAS, or any of the other organizations that you list. Sorry, you are a liar. Period, full stop. There is no chance to recover from this overplayed hand. There is not one thing you can say beyond apologizing for your lapse that could possibly rehabilitate my opinion that everything that comes our of your mouth is untrue.

I do not have to defend Mr. Obama from your lies. Your lies are evident on their face. If you feel somehow that you have some authoritative proofs of your libelous allegations offer them up. Otherwise you should slink away in shame like others of your ilk.

caballus wrote:
would you allow Barrack Hussein Obama to babysit for your children?
Yep, and my new grandson as well.
Ronald E. Kramedjian, RJF

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"What is popular is not always right; what is right is not always popular." Unknown

"In matters of style swim with the current; In matters of principle, stand like a...
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RE:'lest there be any doubt 29 Oct 2008 13:59 #55

  • Mike Ferrara
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caballus wrote:
Knowing Obama's background and past political involvements, knowing his present deceptions (all his records sealed), knowing that 20 years of his life was spent listening to Black Liberation Theology, knowing that he supports known terrorists and "liberators" - knowing that would you allow Barrack Hussein Obama to babysit for your children? Or, if you were hiring someone to run your business and found this information such as BO has in his background during a background check, would you hire him to run your business?

No. I wouldn't want him anywhere around...especially around my children or grandchildren.
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RE:'lest there be any doubt 29 Oct 2008 14:01 #56

  • Mike Ferrara
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Ronald E. Kramedjian wrote:
Gwen,

Your potential to garner any credibility at all died when you posted that Mr. Obama was a member of or active in HAMAS, or any of the other organizations that you list. Sorry, you are a liar. Period, full stop. There is no chance to recover from this overplayed hand. There is not one thing you can say beyond apologizing for your lapse that could possibly rehabilitate my opinion that everything that comes our of your mouth is untrue.

I do not have to defend Mr. Obama from your lies. Your lies are evident on their face. If you feel somehow that you have some authoritative proofs of your libelous allegations offer them up. Otherwise you should slink away in shame like others of your ilk.

Sort of like you coming on here accusing us of racism?
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RE:'lest there be any doubt 29 Oct 2008 14:27 #57

  • Gary_Miller
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Ronald E. Kramedjian wrote:
Gary,

Sorry to say this but you are so out of touch on this you must be on the Bush or McCain staff.
Nope I can think for myself.

Ronald E. Kramedjian wrote:
I can most certianly afford health insurance. Not one insurance company in my state will insure me. I have a preexisting health problem that prevents it. Nothing serious mind you. A moderate level sleep disorder.
In most cases you can get insurance it just won't cover a precondition. This is a usual policy for most insurance companies and there is usually a time period you have to wait before the company will pickup prior conditions. This is to prevent people from jumping from policy to policy with out paying into the system.

Even though you may not be able to have insurance. You still have health care. You only have to pay for it.

Ronald E. Kramedjian wrote:
If it wasn't for the VA I would get no health care at all, not that the VA does much for me beyond the bare neccessities anyway.
Thats not true you can go down to the local clinic make an appointment and get the care you need. You just have to pay for it.

You statement should read. "If it wasn't for the VA I would get no health care at all, not that the VA does much for me beyond the bare neccessities anyway. (Because I'm not willing to pay for it)."
Gary Miller, PF

Ride hard, shoot straight, and always speak the truth.
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"Discover what it is that makes you passionate then grab a firm...
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RE:'lest there be any doubt 29 Oct 2008 14:44 #58

  • Mike Ferrara
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Gary_Miller wrote:
You statement should read. "If it wasn't for the VA I would get no health care at all, not that the VA does much for me beyond the bare neccessities anyway. (Because I'm not willing to pay for it)."

This is all about making someone else pay for your medical care, your education, your whatever!

The cost of medical care has become rediculous (the quality of care and service has also declined) but it's because of government and insurance companies. If the market isn't tampered with, health care providers have no choice but to charge what the market can, and is willing to, pay.

Trade your OWN money for the products and services provided to you...now there's an interesting and novel concept.
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RE:'lest there be any doubt 29 Oct 2008 14:46 #59

  • Gary_Miller
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For those who are voting for Obama or think they might.

Why do you feel Obama is right thing for our country?

What is it he has said that convinced you he is what our country needs in a president?

Please leave out the McKain bashing I want to hear about Obama.
Gary Miller, PF

Ride hard, shoot straight, and always speak the truth.
Gunfighter Motto

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RE:'lest there be any doubt 29 Oct 2008 14:49 #60

  • T.N. Trosin
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caballus wrote:
Knowing Obama's background and past political involvements, knowing his present deceptions (all his records sealed), knowing that 20 years of his life was spent listening to Black Liberation Theology,
So what your saying is that McCain is a communist becaue he was held in a prison camp in Vietnam? Come on
knowing that he supports known terrorists and "liberators"
As do the Annenburg's who support McCain so what your saying is McCain is a terrorist? Come on

Everbody is full of beans.
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