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TOPIC: 'lest there be any doubt

RE:'lest there be any doubt 03 Nov 2008 14:45 #241

  • Mike Ferrara
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Gary_Miller wrote:
While we are all saved by the grace of good through our faith in him. It is through our works in following Chirsts teachings that we show faith. Therefore faith along is not enough. We must do also. Faith and works goes hand in hand.

Of course, but I was trying to illustrate to Ron why Christians don't follow the letter of Mosaic law.
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RE:'lest there be any doubt 03 Nov 2008 14:50 #242

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caballus wrote:
I still remember his speech where he said we can't keep on driving around in our SVUS, keeping our thermostats turned up and eating all the food we want as that sets a bad example for the rest of the world. My feeling is this on that - I and my husband worked and work HARD to get where we are right now and with God's grace and blessings we've been able to achieve all but one of our dreams. If we choose to drive an SUV (which, btw, gets 24 mpg on the highway) or keep our thermostat turned up to 72 (actually we heat our home with wood stove so that point is mute in our home) and eat as much as we want (mostly fresh home-grown during season and then put up for the winter) then it's our right to do so and its our God-given right to take pleasure in the "fruits of our labor". We live in the United States of America which was founded on Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness and out from under the taxation without representation (anyone remember the Boston Tea Party?) and THAT SHOULD SET THE EXAMPLE FOR THE REST OF THE WORLD. Do I feel we have the 'right' to jam that down others' throats? No ... are we responsible for other peoples in other countries? It depends. If we've put our fannies in another country to help "liberate" from terrorists and a dictorial situation and we've been ASKED to do so then we need to follow through and not jump ship, so to speak. Do we have the right to go into another country and try to FORCE democracy on them? Only if we're invited by the people and then its not forced. Are we responsible for other people in our own country? As God calls each of us to share our gifts then, yes.
We've taken in the homeless into our own home. We've taken in and cared for sick and ailing parents in our own home. We have raised 4 awesome kids to adulthood who are now raising their own awesome kids and families. Two of them are Missionaries to countries such as Haiti, The Dominican, Jamaica, Albania, Senegal, Morroco, Maurtania (can't spell that one) and others. My hubby and I also have our "missions" ... he to Haiti and we both work within our own "neighborhood" with city kids and those in need. We take in sick and old and disabled animals and care for those without voices. We work as God calls us to work. We don't serve "the world" - we serve God - Under the red, white and blue stripes of an AWESOME COUNTRY! We are truly blessed. AND ... WE ARE FREE TO DO THESE THINGS!!!

I think we ALL should be counting our blessings right now, today, and think hard and long about the direction in which this country is going in light of the present government and what has been promised by the candidates.

My first post that created such a furor is not to be ignored. The implications are smacking us right in the faces.

We have one day left. Vote thoughtfully.

Wow, all that and (as Obama suggests) you aren't smart enough to properly inflate your tires?:D
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RE:'lest there be any doubt 03 Nov 2008 15:12 #243

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Tom Stovall, CJF wrote:
No matter what you see in the waiting room, the folks who have no resources who are admitted and treated at most hospitals in the Houston area have life-threatening problems

Nope...not true. EVERY single one of those people in line ahead of me were TREATED for the illness they complained about. Whether they are admitted into thehospital is a non-sequitor.....they got TREATMENT for what was ailing them. Period. Not a single one was turned away...what more is expected???? There is no health care crisis...at least not one I can see anywhere.

Steve
Obstacles are those frightful things you see when you take your eyes off your goal. - Henry Ford (1863-1947)
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RE:'lest there be any doubt 03 Nov 2008 15:28 #244

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Mike Ferrara wrote:
Wow, all that and (as Obama suggests) you aren't smart enough to properly inflate your tires?:D
oh geez ... I forgot about that. Better get out the compressor and go check! :p
:) -- Gwen Santagate
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RE:'lest there be any doubt 03 Nov 2008 17:09 #245

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HoustonFarrier wrote:
Nope...not true. EVERY single one of those people in line ahead of me were TREATED for the illness they complained about. Whether they are admitted into thehospital is a non-sequitor.....they got TREATMENT for what was ailing them. Period. Not a single one was turned away...what more is expected???? There is no health care crisis...at least not one I can see anywhere.

Steve

You never said which hospital it was Steve. Or if you did I lost it.

Tom
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RE:'lest there be any doubt 03 Nov 2008 18:54 #246

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HoustonFarrier in gray, my old stuff in brown

No matter what you see in the waiting room, the folks who have no resources who are admitted and treated at most hospitals in the Houston area have life-threatening problems


Nope...not true. EVERY single one of those people in line ahead of me were TREATED for the illness they complained about. Whether they are admitted into the hospital is a non-sequitor.....they got TREATMENT for what was ailing them. Period. Not a single one was turned away...what more is expected????

The Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act of 1986 requires hospitals and ambulance services to provide emergency treatment (not non-emergency, preventative, or routine medical treatment) to anyone who needs emergency treatment, regardless of citizenship or ability to pay.

There is no health care crisis...at least not one I can see anywhere.

Please see http://www.texasobserver.org/article.php?aid=1789 then get back to me on this "no health care crisis" business.

To my knowledge, few of the private hospitals in Houston (Methodist, Memorial Hospital System, Christus St. Catherine, etc.) offer ER treatment to indigents for non-emergency treatment. Some public hospitals have chosen to offer non-emergency medical treatment to illegal aliens, but when John Cornyn was attorney general of Texas, he opined this practice is contrary to federal law:

"Mr. Cornyn said that federal law required that illegal immigrants receive emergency room care , immunizations and treatment of communicable diseases. But he said the law prohibited all other care unless states enacted laws to provide it."

More on this: http://www.vdare.com/misc/levin_illegals_in_er.htm

All of which brings to mind the logical question: At what hospital did this take place? All ERs practice triage, meaning whoever is hurt the worst gets treated first; so, if you had a lengthy wait in an ER, chances are real good that the folks in front of you needed treatment worse than you did. :)
Tom Stovall, CJF
"The only foolish question is the one left unasked."
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RE:'lest there be any doubt 03 Nov 2008 19:29 #247

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T.N. Trosin wrote:
You never said which hospital it was Steve. Or if you did I lost it.

Tom

Used to be called Poly Ryan hospital in Richmond, Texas (we used to call it "prolly dyin" LOL)...they are now called a different name......since I moved to Sealy, I go to the hospital in Bellville, when needed.

Tom S...did you READ that 2004 article you told me to read.....I mean, REALLY read it......I hate to say, but it backs up what I have already said...

Bold is by me for emphasis......
In contrast, emergency rooms are open 24 hours a day, and on weekends. By federal law, no ER, public or private, can turn anyone away, whether or not they can pay for treatment. The Medicaid co-payment for non-emergency services delivered at the emergency room is a bargain at $3. (The state can charge double that amount, if they prove you had an “alternative” avenue of care available, but that’s a lot of trouble to go to for an extra three bucks.) And for the uninsured and indigent, ERs routinely waive fees due to inability to pay.

Now, we can argue all day about how long one must wait for service....but...if one is NOT paying for a service, what difference does it make? See, the "health care crisis" is not really a crisis...it's just another "haves vs have nots" argument....bolstered by the liberal left of this country....in order to bolster THEIR voting block....IMHO:)

No one in the United States is turned away from any hospital for the lack of ability to pay....PERIOD.
Obstacles are those frightful things you see when you take your eyes off your goal. - Henry Ford (1863-1947)
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RE:'lest there be any doubt 03 Nov 2008 21:11 #248

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Hi all,

HoustonFarrier wrote:

No one in the United States is turned away from any hospital for the lack of ability to pay....PERIOD.

Yes and that would be OK if ya didn't have squat but lets say you actually owned something like a house or a farm or . . . . and you didn't have health insurance and had to have a 100, 200 thousand dollar operation then what. Think ya might think differantly about universal health care then?

Kevin
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if i was smart enought to spell properly I probably wouldnt be shoeing friggen horses for a living ay. Red Amor

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RE:'lest there be any doubt 03 Nov 2008 21:21 #249

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cowboy_bc wrote:
....but lets say you actually owned something like a house or a farm or . . . . and you didn't have health insurance and had to have a 100, 200 thousand dollar operation then what. Think ya might think differantly about universal health care then?

Kevin

Nope. If you can afford a house or a farm, then why can't you afford health insurance??? Look, I've been down and out before...I've been "let go" from jobs...I've taken a 33% pay cut right before Christmas.......I've NEVER....NEVER...NEVER been without health insurance. Health insurance is a decision that folks make. They either have it, and suck it up on what it costs(which is something we SHOULD be debating)....or they say it's too expensive and CHOOSE not to have it.

I'll use my daughter as an example again. Prior to her getting pregnant, she was working....first part-time for Sears (which provides no insurance for part-timers) and then for the Houston SPCA, which has a 6 month waiting period PRIOR to getting insurance. She is a Type I diabetic, but STILL managed to be able to purchase 3rd party health/dental insurance for herself. She BUGETED herself, so that she was "living within her means" even PAYING ALL HER OWN INSURANCE COSTS....now, if a 19 year old Type I diabetic can do it...........why is it others can't ?????

Steve
Obstacles are those frightful things you see when you take your eyes off your goal. - Henry Ford (1863-1947)
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RE:'lest there be any doubt 03 Nov 2008 21:33 #250

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HoustonFarrier, you do realize that a considerable amount of unpaid hospital bills are from those who already have health insurance, don't you?

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/booster_shots/2008/09/medical-bills-s.html

I've worked my butt off to be able to afford private health insurance my whole life. It's a priority. BUT, under no circumstances do I feel that the healthcare industry is even remotely well managed and that the premiums charged are within the means of all Americans and their employers.

What do you feel is a reasonable premium?
Starting on page eleven there is a listing of all the health insurance rates available to residents in my state.
http://www.bishca.state.vt.us/HcaDiv/consumerpubs_healthcare/shopping_IndSmGrp_July2008.pdf

Reasonable? I don't think so at all. It wasn't too long ago that I paid half of what I do now. This year alone the increase was $600.
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RE:'lest there be any doubt 03 Nov 2008 21:45 #251

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SharaNihan wrote:
HoustonFarrier, you do realize that a considerable amount of unpaid hospital bills are from those who already have health insurance, don't you?
Yes, I do know that...and it makes me even wonder more where the "crisis" is, ie, who is NOT getting medical attention????

SharaNihan wrote:
I've worked my butt off to be able to afford private health insurance my whole life. It's a priority.
As have I...and millions and millions of other folks too....and we are the ones who REALLY get the shaft!

SharaNihan wrote:
BUT, under no circumstances do I feel that the healtcare industry is even remotely well managed

No argument from me on that!

SharaNihan wrote:
and that the premiums charged within the means of the majority of Americans and their employers.

I would argue that.....I can pay them, and I live well within my means. My daughter was able to pay them when she was employed...she had to drive a ****py $500 car, but she made it work!

Steve
Obstacles are those frightful things you see when you take your eyes off your goal. - Henry Ford (1863-1947)
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RE:'lest there be any doubt 03 Nov 2008 21:45 #252

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SharaNihan wrote:
HoustonFarrier, you do realize that a considerable amount of unpaid hospital bills are from those who already have health insurance, don't you?

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/booster_shots/2008/09/medical-bills-s.html

I've worked my butt off to be able to afford private health insurance my whole life. It's a priority. BUT, under no circumstances do I feel that the healtcare industry is even remotely well managed and that the premiums charged are within the means of all Americans and their employers.

What do you feel is a reasonable premium?
Starting on page eleven there is a listing of all the health insurance rates available to residents in my state.
http://www.bishca.state.vt.us/HcaDiv/consumerpubs_healthcare/shopping_IndSmGrp_July2008.pdf

Reasonable? I don't think so at all. It wasn't too long ago that I paid half of what I do now. This year alone the increase was $600.

And you think that if the government is in charge of this, they'll manage it and make it more affordable? Last thing this country needs is government telling folks wheather it's health insurance, taxi cab, or horseshoeing, how much they can charge. That my friend is socialism. The Government shouldn't have that much control and say so in any business. If you can't afford health care you might want to think about getting another job or going back to school to get a better education to get a better higher paying job. It really upsets me when folks think their intitled to things like health care. America was built on hard work not hand outs.
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RE:'lest there be any doubt 03 Nov 2008 22:15 #253

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PerformanceHorseshoeing- So you're telling me that you're happy with the amount of and coverage of health insurance you have available to you? You find the healthcare industry efficiently managed? A good value for the dollar?

It upsets me to fund such an ill concieved industry and yet I don't feel I have any choice. Generally speaking if I don't like a product or don't like a company that makes a product, I choose to either go without or purchase something else. I'm cranky like that. Healthcare I have no choice.

It also upsets me when people can't seem to imagine the possiblities of why there could be people in our society not capable of going back to school to get a better education to get a better higher paying job. (Not that I couldn't.)
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RE:'lest there be any doubt 03 Nov 2008 22:26 #254

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Hi all,

In my neck of the woods yoiu have to have car insurance, but say for argument say we didn't and there were a bunch of fools taking a chance not having it. What do you think would happen to my rates?

Kevin
Kevin Joseph Wheeler

Always strive to be the person your dog thinks you are.

if i was smart enought to spell properly I probably wouldnt be shoeing friggen horses for a living ay. Red Amor

If it don’t seem like it’s worth the effort it probably...
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RE:'lest there be any doubt 03 Nov 2008 22:35 #255

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SharaNihan wrote:
HoustonFarrier, you do realize that a considerable amount of unpaid hospital bills are from those who already have health insurance, don't you?

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/booster_shots/2008/09/medical-bills-s.html

I've worked my butt off to be able to afford private health insurance my whole life. It's a priority. BUT, under no circumstances do I feel that the healthcare industry is even remotely well managed and that the premiums charged are within the means of all Americans and their employers.

What do you feel is a reasonable premium?
Starting on page eleven there is a listing of all the health insurance rates available to residents in my state.
http://www.bishca.state.vt.us/HcaDiv/consumerpubs_healthcare/shopping_IndSmGrp_July2008.pdf

Reasonable? I don't think so at all. It wasn't too long ago that I paid half of what I do now. This year alone the increase was $600.

Surely those numbers wern't for a month???
Kevin Joseph Wheeler

Always strive to be the person your dog thinks you are.

if i was smart enought to spell properly I probably wouldnt be shoeing friggen horses for a living ay. Red Amor

If it don’t seem like it’s worth the effort it probably...
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