make up natural cara make up make up tutorial make up korea make up minimalis make up artis make up mata belajar make up make up wardah alat make up makeup forever indonesia makeup artist jakarta tips make up barbie make up natural make up make up wajah make up pesta make up syahrini makeup mata makeup minimalis peralatan make up make up cantik make up mac make up kit jual make up make up sederhana perlengkapan make up gambar make up vidio make up cara makeup minimalis wardah make up make up pac make up glamour cara memakai makeup make up panggung harga make up make up modern make up alami make up dasar pixy make up make up muslimah make up oriflame make up jepang makeover cosmetic make up ultima make up sariayu grosir make up makeup fantasi makeup pesta tas makeup langkah make up make up pria make up malam alat makeup tahapan make up produk make up shading make up mak up make up kebaya make up jilbab make up inez make up simpel contoh make up cara ber makeup makeup wajah tanpa make up make up terbaru toko make up mac makeup indonesia make up soft urutan make up trik make up makeover makeup brand gusnaldi make up paket make up panduan make up jual makeup brush make up bagus alat2 make up make up gusnaldi aplikasi make up alat alat makeup dasar make up inez make up peralatan makeup make up wanita make up berjilbab make up tebal sejarah make up make up maybeline make up branded make up siang tata cara makeup reseller make up make up muslim make up maybelin warna make up tips make up artist rias make up make up mata make up artis belajar make up make up artist kursus make up kuas make up make up forever indonesia jual make up mac indonesia make up make up artist indonesia harga make up forever jual make up online make up pac make up forever jakarta make up oriflame jual make up forever make up online shop indonesia harga make up sekolah make up grosir make up harga make up maybelline jual make up murah make up terbaru mak up mac make up indonesia sofia make up make up kit murah mac makeup indonesia produk make up jual make up kit make up store indonesia make up forever academy jakarta toko make up online jual make up set jual make up mac make up beauty jual make up branded produk make up mac make up forever harga make up mac indonesia produk make up artis jual make up palette produk make up forever make up palette murah before after make up pengantin before after make up sendiri before n after hasil makeup contoh make up karakter contoh riasan pengantin before n after harga make up wisuda harga make up artist harga make up forever make up wisuda rias wisuda di jogja Daftar harga make up forever daftar harga make up mac daftar harga kosmetik make up forever makeup wisuda harga makeup wisuda kursus make up di yogyakarta kursus make up di jogja kursus make up jogja kursus make up yogyakarta kursus kecantikan di yogyakarta kursus kecantikan di jogja kursus make up artist di jogja kursus rias pengantin di jogja kursus rias di yogyakarta kursus tata rias di yogyakarta rias pengantin muslim jogja jasa kreasi jilbab wisuda yogyakarta jasa rias make up wisuda murah bagus bisa dpanggil tempat make uf di jigja yang bagus rias wisuda murah dan berkualitas yogyakarta pakar kreasi jilbab di jogja make uper natural yogya make up wisuda hijab area jogja make up dan kreasi jilbab yang bagus di jogja jasa make up natural untuk wisuda jogja makeup jogja make up jogja makeup yogyakarta make up yogyakarta makeup wisuda jogja make up wisuda jogja make up wisuda yogyakarta makeup wisuda yogyakarta
Tuesday September 27, 2022
Welcome, Guest
Username: Password: Remember me

TOPIC: 'lest there be any doubt

RE:'lest there be any doubt 01 Nov 2008 15:36 #196

T.N. Trosin wrote:
Religion is a strange thing.
Tom,

You got that right.

Worse it gets perverted into something that it was not intended to be by various sects that cherry pick their way through there various holy books for the parts that they need to justify their actions, while ignoring the parts that condemn their actions.
Ronald E. Kramedjian, RJF

Visit the Guild of Professional Farriers, Inc. Website

"What is popular is not always right; what is right is not always popular." Unknown

"In matters of style swim with the current; In matters of principle, stand like a...
The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:'lest there be any doubt 01 Nov 2008 22:27 #197

  • Bill Adams
  • Bill Adams's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Master
  • Posts: 4185
  • Thank you received: 9
  • Karma: 6
I read my post to my wife, Mari, and she wanted to write a bit more about our experience with our grandson, Noah.

Hi all. I appreciate the opportunity to comment on this very important subject. When our DDIL (dear daughter-in-law) was only 15 weeks pregnant when her doctor inisisted that there was no hope for a live birth and for the sake of her health he insisted that she let him end the pregnancy. Her mom and I (along with other friends and relatives) fought for hours to get the staff and doctor to listen to us. The whole culture at the hospital was geared toward ending her pregnancy. Her support group made phone calls, held off the doctor, put her in a better position to sustain the pregnancy, begged for a catheter so she wouldn't be walking around, etc. All this to arguments, stares and disdain from most of the staff we came in contact with. We were holding off the executioners while we tried to rally support for our sweet little guy. Long story short, a San Francisco doc, a neonatal specialist heard our story, insisted Noah could live, suggested treatment, and low-and-behold a local doc knew a very specialized proceedure that saved his life!. We continued to battle throughout much of the pregnancy and when Noah was born, his profile looked just the same as it did in his sonograms at 15 weeks. The nurses at the hospital still mention the miracle to me when they see me. Abortion affects us all whether we care to have it do so or not. I'm thankful that we fought for the life of our little guy and reap the great rewards of watching him grow. Put yourself in the place of each baby caught in the cross hairs of abortion. Who will care? A woman can get over an unwanted pregnancy. A baby cannot get over an abortion. Choose life. Mari.

Bill again;
When I need a bit of eloquence, I have Mari pinch hit for me.

A rightous man regardeth the life of his beast. Proverbs 12:10
I don't give a damn for a man who can only spell a word one way. Mark Twain
The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:'lest there be any doubt 01 Nov 2008 22:44 #198

  • Gary_Miller
  • Gary_Miller's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Master
  • Posts: 2565
  • Thank you received: 1
  • Karma: 0
Tom Stovall, CJF wrote:
The homeless, a disproportionate number of whom are veterans, don't have cell phones - or addresses.
Go down to the local soup line and check out the number of people in line with cell phones. Also go sit in the local health and welfare office a check out the number of people applying for welfare who have cell phones. I think you will be amazed.

Tom Stovall, CJF wrote:
More than 40 million Americans have no health insurance.
So! No one is guranteed health insurance its something you have to pay for.

Tom Stovall, CJF wrote:
Another 40 million or so are underinsured and one hospital stay or a similar financial crisis away from living under a bridge.
OK! But it still does not make it the tax payers responsablity to provide health insurance. And there are public and privite assistance programs to help those who may need help. In most cases all the have to do is ask.

Tom Stovall, CJF wrote:
Thanks to our failed economic policies, no one's job is safe and a pension plan dependent on investments may have gone the way of the Passenger Pigeon: What now?
All while the democrats were in control of the congress.
No one ever gauranteed you a job.
No one ever guaranteed that the price of stock would not drop.

Tom Stovall, CJF wrote:
The poor can't get routine medical care because they don't have any money, any job, or any prospects.
Its been my experiance that those you consider poor are usually the ones who don't go out and work to get a job and expect everything to be given to them.
They are usually satified with what welfare will give them and don't look for work because they would lose their welfare check. I have even know of family members having to move out when the turn 18 yrs old because thier expected to find a job and the amount of welfare check for the family will decrease.

Tom Stovall, CJF wrote:
Our porous borders have allowed the "free" hospitals in the border states to become overrun with illegal aliens - but hey, they're good for big business because they pluck the chickens, wash the dishes, and trim the trees for the multinationals that're calling the shots on both sides of the aisle.
I agree this is a big problem that needs to be address. Of course all we need if for those elected to enforce and uphold the laws currently in place to do thier job. Round them up and ship the back. If they come back put them in a work camp.

Tom Stovall, CJF wrote:
I despise anyone on the dole who won't work,
I don't believe you. If you did you would not be for the tax payer providing health insurance. And you would not be for Mr. Obama and his redistribution of wealth policy.

Tom Stovall, CJF wrote:
but there are lots of folks just like you and me, blue collar folks not afraid to get dirty who took pride in their work, who were put out of work or whose jobs were sent offshore because the government allowed corporations to merge and downsizing was introduced to avoid redundancy.
The government did not allow it they have no control over where a company goes to do thier buisness.
How ever the government (under Mr. Clinton) did cause this by laying heavey tax burdons and mandates on companies to the exstent that they could no longer operate in the USA and still turn a profit.

Tom Stovall, CJF wrote:
Too bad the poor don't have a "Golden Parachute" - or even adequate medical care.
Its to bad that we as a country make it easy to be poor and on welfare.

Tom Stovall, CJF wrote:
I'm not a Christian, but I am my brother's keeper
I am a Christian and also my brothers keeper. However, I believe that being my brothers keeper is helping him to become self reliant so he can hold his head up high instead of his hand out.

Give a man a fish and you feed him for a meal. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a life time.

Tom Stovall, CJF wrote:
and I would much rather see my taxes go for things like universal health care and education
I would rather see my taxes be lowed and put back into the family budget.

Tom Stovall, CJF wrote:
As I mentioned earlier, it's a damn shame we unwashed taxpayers don't have a line item veto. :)
We don't need a line item veto as much as we need a people in the government who understand their role as defined by the constitution.
Gary Miller, PF

Ride hard, shoot straight, and always speak the truth.
Gunfighter Motto

"Our level of quality is how well our eye can see it." (Eric Russell, Oct 2008, Horseshoes.com)

"Discover what it is that makes you passionate then grab a firm...
The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:'lest there be any doubt 01 Nov 2008 22:55 #199

  • Bill Adams
  • Bill Adams's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Master
  • Posts: 4185
  • Thank you received: 9
  • Karma: 6
Gary_Miller wrote:
Give a man a fish and you feed him for a meal. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a life time.

Agree with your post, very well put.
I must ad this however, when ever I see the saying above;
If you give a man a fire he will be warm for the nite, if you set a man on fire, he will be warm for the rest of his life.

A rightous man regardeth the life of his beast. Proverbs 12:10
I don't give a damn for a man who can only spell a word one way. Mark Twain
The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:'lest there be any doubt 02 Nov 2008 05:15 #200

  • Tom Stovall CJF
  • Tom Stovall CJF's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Master
  • Posts: 3882
  • Thank you received: 1
  • Karma: 0
Gary_Miller in gray, my old stuff in brown, stuff deleted

Its been my experiance that those you consider poor are usually the ones who don't go out and work to get a job and expect everything to be given to them.

Apparently, your "experience" consists of parroting the bigotry, sterotyping, and scapegoating one hears on talk radio and other bastions of mindless prejudice.

They are usually satified with what welfare will give them and don't look for work because they would lose their welfare check.

If you keep telling yourself this sort of balony, you might actually start believing it - but it's simply not so. Rather than being typical of the behavior of welfare recipients, such stories are typical of the nonsense bigots use in an effort to justify their prejudice.

I have even know of family members having to move out when the turn 18 yrs old because thier expected to find a job and the amount of welfare check for the family will decrease.

If so, do you feel their behavior is typical? Or, are you using your allegations to fuel your prejudice?

Our porous borders have allowed the "free" hospitals in the border states to become overrun with illegal aliens - but hey, they're good for big business because they pluck the chickens, wash the dishes, and trim the trees for the multinationals that're calling the shots on both sides of the aisle.

I agree this is a big problem that needs to be address. Of course all we need if for those elected to enforce and uphold the laws currently in place to do thier job. Round them up and ship the back. If they come back put them in a work camp.

It would be impossible to round up every illegial alien and send them back where they came from - but it would be relatively easy to make it a felony to hire anyone without a valid social security number. Without work, there's no reason for illegal immigration.

I despise anyone on the dole who won't work,


I don't believe you.


You wouldn't want to say that to my face.

If you did you would not be for the tax payer providing health insurance.

Evidently, logic is not your long suit.

And you would not be for Mr. Obama and his redistribution of wealth policy.

LMAO! I understand that critical thinking and you are strangers, but whatever gave you the silly idea that I would vote for a canditate like Obama? Stop trying to pigeonhole folks and try to understand that some of us think for ourselves and don't march in lockstep with any political party.

There are lots of folks... who were put out of work or whose jobs were sent offshore because the government allowed corporations to merge and downsizing was introduced to avoid redundancy.

The government did not allow it they have no control over where a company goes to do thier buisness.

Nonsense: Business does business at the pleasure of the government.

How ever the government (under Mr. Clinton) did cause this by laying heavey tax burdons and mandates on companies to the exstent that they could no longer operate in the USA and still turn a profit.


You might want to check your sources, Clinton (damned fool that he was) was a champion of NAFTA and no friend to either the working man or the consumer. You might also want to check on who controlled the Legislative Branch of government during Clinton's presidency.

Its to bad that we as a country make it easy to be poor and on welfare.

It's easy to be poor because the gap between rich and poor has widened exponentially, starting with Reagan's failed economic policies. Nothing "trickeled down", the rich got richer and the poor got poorer.

I am a Christian and also my brothers keeper. However, I believe that being my brothers keeper is helping him to become self reliant so he can hold his head up high instead of his hand out.

Really? Would you support a workfare program in which every able-bodied recipiant of welfare would be required to provide community service?
Tom Stovall, CJF
"The only foolish question is the one left unasked."
The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:'lest there be any doubt 02 Nov 2008 10:36 #201

  • Rick Burten
  • Rick Burten's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Enforcer
  • Posts: 9082
  • Thank you received: 50
  • Karma: 8
Bill Adams wrote:
I read my post to my wife, Mari, and she wanted to write a bit more about our experience with our grandson, Noah.

Bill/Mari,

I am glad that things worked out for you and your family. My kids had a much different experience. Their unborn child had zero chance of survival had my DIL carried him to term. They chose to terminate the pregnancy at twenty weeks.

The important thing here is that they had the ability and right to choose.

And that is something that no one should be able to take away from them or anyone else.

Being Pro-choice is not the same as being Anti-life, though there are many who would try to convince you otherwise.
Rick Burten PF

In the immortal words of Ron White: "But let me tell you something, folks: You can't fix S-tupid. There's not a pill you can take; there's not a class you can go to. S-tupid is forever."
."


Je pense donc je suis
The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:'lest there be any doubt 02 Nov 2008 10:40 #202

  • Rick Burten
  • Rick Burten's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Enforcer
  • Posts: 9082
  • Thank you received: 50
  • Karma: 8
Tom Stovall, CJF wrote:
.

Would you support a workfare program in which every able-bodied ecipiant of welfare would be required to provide community service?

I'd sure be inclined to. Especially if that program weeded out all the illegals and the law was changed such that any children of illegals, born on US soil, would be illegal too. And not privy to any of the social, medical, educational or other benefits accorded legal citizens of the United States.
Rick Burten PF

In the immortal words of Ron White: "But let me tell you something, folks: You can't fix S-tupid. There's not a pill you can take; there's not a class you can go to. S-tupid is forever."
."


Je pense donc je suis
The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:'lest there be any doubt 02 Nov 2008 11:10 #203

  • Mike Ferrara
  • Mike Ferrara's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Guru
  • Posts: 5057
  • Thank you received: 3
  • Karma: 0
Tom Stovall, CJF wrote:
Gary_Miller in gray, my old stuff in brown, stuff deleted

It would be impossible to round up every illegial alien and send them back where they came from - but it would be relatively easy to make it a felony to hire anyone without a valid social security number. Without work, there's no reason for illegal immigration.

It isn't big business keeping them here. Look around at all the major cities who's mayors have declared their city as a "sanctuary city". The liberals want to let them stay and are openly refusing to enforce the law.



There are lots of folks... who were put out of work or whose jobs were sent offshore because the government allowed corporations to merge and downsizing was introduced to avoid redundancy.

The government did not allow it they have no control over where a company goes to do thier buisness.

Nonsense: Business does business at the pleasure of the government.

Th purpose...the ONLY purpose of a business is to make money. Having spent a lot of time in the corporate world, I can tell you that plenty of mistakes are made but the goal is profit. Downsizing, aquisition and moving oporations to where they are more profitable are all means of increasing profit.

What's wrong with that and why should the government prevent it? Business that isn't profitable can't do anybody any good.


Its to bad that we as a country make it easy to be poor and on welfare.

It's easy to be poor because the gap between rich and poor has widened exponentially, starting with Reagan's failed economic policies. Nothing "trickeled down", the rich got richer and the poor got poorer.

The rich always get richer. First of all, they are people who know how to get rich. Also, once you have money it's easy to make more since the money works for you.

There are a good many people in this country who start out poor and become wealthy. The town I live near is, in fact, owned in large part by just such a person. We live in one of the few place where such things are possible.

Assuming one is healthy enough to work, there isn't anything stopping them. Some don't know how and some aren't willing to do what it takes...ok the government and it's taxes puts quite a burden on businesses (especially small business). I know, I've been there too but we're mostly talking about people who never get that far.

Have you taken a drive through one of our inner cities lately (wear body armor)? What do you see? Hords standing in the street drinking. They will not make any progress that way.



Really? Would you support a workfare program in which every able-bodied recipiant of welfare would be required to provide community service?

One problem with welfare is that it's a bad investement that wasts everyones resources. We continue to support those who have never earned a living, never contributed and never will. In many cases we are talking about families (if we can call them that) who have been unemployed for generations.

Yet, there is little help available for the many with good work histories who fall on temporary hard times until they've lost everything. Helping these folks would be a good investement because they'll get things squared away and go right back to contributing.

I'm not sure that it's the governments place (especially the federal government) to provide welfare at all. However, if it does, it needs to be very temporary and with stringent conditions attached. If they don't make progress, you turn them lose and let them starve if that's what they choose to do.
The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:'lest there be any doubt 02 Nov 2008 12:33 #204

  • Mike Ferrara
  • Mike Ferrara's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Guru
  • Posts: 5057
  • Thank you received: 3
  • Karma: 0
Companies moving out of the country...

I've personally been involed in moving three different manufacturing facilities to Mexico and I've been involved in more re-organizations as a result of aquisitions/sell-offs than I can even remember or count.

Two of the three facilities I moved were losing money and had been for a long time. The third had been in the red for several years. We got it in the black but just barely. It wasn't enough or soon enough and it was sent south.

Moving costs a ton of money, often has huge risk and, even when profit is increased, it often takes years to make back the cost of moving. As much as I hate the typical 30 year old inexperienced MBA who is typically running the show these days, I've never seen a corporation move just to squeeze a few more pennies of profit out.

The more government gets involved and the more restrictions there are the worse it gets. If companies aren't free to run their own business, they just go away all together and that represents a loss by more people than just those who lose their jobs when a facility moves. Most of these companies are publically held and there are millions of shareholders who are just normal every day people (you and your neighbors) who stand to lose their savings.

Small business...well the government is already kicking the **** out of them.
The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:'lest there be any doubt 02 Nov 2008 12:37 #205

  • Mike Ferrara
  • Mike Ferrara's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Guru
  • Posts: 5057
  • Thank you received: 3
  • Karma: 0
Ronald E. Kramedjian wrote:
Tom,

You got that right.

Worse it gets perverted into something that it was not intended to be by various sects that cherry pick their way through there various holy books for the parts that they need to justify their actions, while ignoring the parts that condemn their actions.

If you read it yourself, someone elses "cherry picking" is of no concern.
The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:'lest there be any doubt 02 Nov 2008 12:47 #206

  • Mike Ferrara
  • Mike Ferrara's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Guru
  • Posts: 5057
  • Thank you received: 3
  • Karma: 0
Originally Posted by Tom Stovall, CJF
.

Would you support a workfare program in which every able-bodied ecipiant of welfare would be required to provide community service?

Rick Burten wrote:
I'd sure be inclined to. Especially if that program weeded out all the illegals and the law was changed such that any children of illegals, born on US soil, would be illegal too. And not privy to any of the social, medical, educational or other benefits accorded legal citizens of the United States.

What would you have them do?

Keep in mind that if they do a job that was fomerly done by someone else, then someone is displaced. For example, the state park here has started using prison inmates to do work that they used to employ people to do. It sounds reasonable to put those prisoners to work doing something useful but now there are LESS jobs in the community and instead of being in prison being punished for their crimes the inmates are out in the beautifull forest all day doing easy enjoyable work...if they actually work at all.

But, what is community service? In the summer when things are busy, I'm gone enough that I have trouble keeping my grass cut (and I have LOTS of it). I pay taxes and I'm part of the community. Why don't they send some of those welfare recipiants over to cut my grass?
The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:'lest there be any doubt 02 Nov 2008 13:26 #207

  • Mike Ferrara
  • Mike Ferrara's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Guru
  • Posts: 5057
  • Thank you received: 3
  • Karma: 0
Originally Posted by Tom Stovall, CJF
Would you support a workfare program in which every able-bodied ecipiant of welfare would be required to provide community service?

Rick Burten wrote:
I'd sure be inclined to. Especially if that program weeded out all the illegals and the law was changed such that any children of illegals, born on US soil, would be illegal too. And not privy to any of the social, medical, educational or other benefits accorded legal citizens of the United States.

One more question. If they are willing and able to work, why aren't they already working?
The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:'lest there be any doubt 02 Nov 2008 13:43 #208

  • Tom Stovall CJF
  • Tom Stovall CJF's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Master
  • Posts: 3882
  • Thank you received: 1
  • Karma: 0
Mike Ferrara in gray, stuff deleted

It isn't big business keeping them [illegal aliens] here.

Businesses of all sizes provide jobs for illegal aliens, and most of that employment is in the form of unskilled labor in the construction, agricultural, hotel, restaurant, and similar industries.

Look around at all the major cities who's mayors have declared their city as a "sanctuary city".

The City of Houston is one of those "sanctuary cities." Every once in a while, the INS does a sweep of the apartments in the Gulfton area and hits a few construction sites, but enforcement of immigration law is nearly nonexistent, probably because the Hispanic community has a great deal of political clout.

The liberals want to let them stay and are openly refusing to enforce the law.

The businesses that hire illegal aliens are apolitical and Houston has voted Republican for the last generation - it's Tom DeLay country. Illegal aliens tend to concentrate where the jobs are: If it were a felony to hire anyone without a valid social security card, the jobs will go away and there would be no incentive for illegal immigration.

Th purpose...the ONLY purpose of a business is to make money. Having spent a lot of time in the corporate world, I can tell you that plenty of mistakes are made but the goal is profit. Downsizing, aquisition and moving oporations to where they are more profitable are all means of increasing profit.


Quite true, business is not about altruism, it's about profit; however, the desire to maximize profit does not give business a carte blanche to fix prices, produce unsafe merchandise, hire illegal aliens, use unfair trade practices, etc.

What's wrong with that and why should the government prevent it?


In a nutshell, when businesses have no competition and no regulation, both the consumer and the workers get screwed.

Business that isn't profitable can't do anybody any good.


True, but consumer welfare is more important to a society than corporate profit.

The rich always get richer. First of all, they are people who know how to get rich. Also, once you have money it's easy to make more since the money works for you.

It's expecially easy for the rich to get richer when the government tilts the table in their favor - for example, by not enforcing immigration laws which provides a cheap source of unskilled labor and by a lack of oversight of corporate policies and banking practices. Did you miss Enron? The latest dustup on Wall Street?

There are a good many people in this country who start out poor and become wealthy. The town I live near is, in fact, owned in large part by just such a person. We live in one of the few place where such things are possible.

LMAO! if you think the concentration of wealth is a Good Thing, you'll love Mexico - where 90% of the wealth is controlled by 2% of the population.

Assuming one is healthy enough to work, there isn't anything stopping them.

Nonsense! How exactly does one go to work when there is no work to be had? Due largely to the "trickle down" economic policies instituted by the Reagan administration, jobs and industry here in Texas have been replaced by McJobs and boarded-up storefronts.

Some don't know how and some aren't willing to do what it takes...ok the government and it's taxes puts quite a burden on businesses (especially small business). I know, I've been there too but we're mostly talking about people who never get that far.

Mom and pop small businesses, especially in small towns, are an endangered species, thanks largely to the government's making it impossible for them to compete with multinational corporations.

Have you taken a drive through one of our inner cities lately (wear body armor)? What do you see?

What I've seen is lots of folks with no jobs, no prospects, and no way out.

Hords standing in the street drinking. They will not make any progress that way.


It's not how I deal with my problems, but I can understand how hopelessness can drive somebody to crack and MD 20-20.

One problem with welfare is that it's a bad investement that wasts everyones resources. We continue to support those who have never earned a living, never contributed and never will. In many cases we are talking about families (if we can call them that) who have been unemployed for generations.

Spare me the stereotyping, a welfare system that requires the able-bodied to work could be instituted tomorrow, were it not for the political pandering to minorities from both sides of the aisle. Roosevelt's WPA and CCC are good examples of "workfare" that worked.

Yet, there is little help available for the many with good work histories who fall on temporary hard times until they've lost everything. Helping these folks would be a good investement because they'll get things squared away and go right back to contributing.

Helping anyone who'll work is a good investment for society.

I'm not sure that it's the governments place (especially the federal government) to provide welfare at all.

The government provides more corporate welfare than public welfare: Did you protest the Wall Street Bailout?

However, if it does, it needs to be very temporary and with stringent conditions attached. If they don't make progress, you turn them lose and let them starve if that's what they choose to do.


Let 'em starve? That's certainly a charitable thought! Is that a tenet of morality found someplace in the Bible you've repeatedly cited as a moral compass? In reality, nobody "chooses" to starve in this country, but some do - and one is too many.
Tom Stovall, CJF
"The only foolish question is the one left unasked."
The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:'lest there be any doubt 02 Nov 2008 14:15 #209

  • Gary Hill
  • Gary Hill's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Guru
  • Posts: 5298
  • Thank you received: 6
  • Karma: 4
If I remember correctly the Church is supposed to support the widows and the sick, all others are to "Reap what they sow". If they don't want to work they stand on the corners and drink, and to support the drink they steal . My sister in-law works with the state and has to give out the welfare. Women come in with 5 kids from 5 differant fathers who are no where to be found except the last one who is waiting for her to come home so he can buy steaks to sell for drugs and Ho's. It discusses her and I take offence to it also, anyone that works for a living should be offended also. JMO
"As I see it, winners get the money - while losers talk of "individual goals" and similar stuff." Tom Stovall
The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:'lest there be any doubt 02 Nov 2008 14:22 #210

  • Mike Ferrara
  • Mike Ferrara's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Guru
  • Posts: 5057
  • Thank you received: 3
  • Karma: 0
Tom Stovall, CJF wrote:
LMAO! if you think the concentration of wealth is a Good Thing, you'll love Mexico - where 90% of the wealth is controlled by 2% of the population.

What I think is impotant is that a person have some control over their own life. If only two percent do what it takes to get rich, so be it.

Assuming one is healthy enough to work, there isn't anything stopping them.

Nonsense! How exactly does one go to work when there is no work to be had? Due largely to the "trickle down" economic policies instituted by the Reagan administration, jobs and industry here in Texas have been replaced by McJobs and boarded-up storefronts.

Where is it that there are no jobs? I live out in the middle of no-where. I work and we (my wife and I) decided we needed a little more income through the winter so my wife went out and got a job.

It's true that things ahve changed. We don't have the high paying unskilled jobs that we once had. It's not all the governments fault. The world is changing. It's up the one seeking employment to gain the skills that can be sold to an employer.

Some don't know how and some aren't willing to do what it takes...ok the government and it's taxes puts quite a burden on businesses (especially small business). I know, I've been there too but we're mostly talking about people who never get that far.

Mom and pop small businesses, especially in small towns, are an endangered species, thanks largely to the government's making it impossible for them to compete with multinational corporations.

True enouph. I locked the door on my "mom and pop" retail business and walked away. The business practices of the manufacturers and distributers were a large part of it but it was the taxes that pushed me over the edge.

To make it short...the manufacturers require a certain volume, breadth and depth of product purchase. So, you don't get to decide what you are going to sell and are forced to purchase stuff that you know you can't sell...it's that or nothing. Then when you are unable to sell it and it sits on the shelf depreciating, the government (here in Indiana) makes you pay property tax on all that unsold inventory.

Have you taken a drive through one of our inner cities lately (wear body armor)? What do you see?

What I've seen is lots of folks with no jobs, no prospects, and no way out.

No way out or no way that they like?

Hords standing in the street drinking. They will not make any progress that way.


It's not how I deal with my problems, but I can understand how hopelessness can drive somebody to crack and MD 20-20.

Being understandable doesn't make it excuseable or productive.


I'm not sure that it's the governments place (especially the federal government) to provide welfare at all.

The government provides more corporate welfare than public welfare: Did you protest the Wall Street Bailout?

Absolutely!

However, if it does, it needs to be very temporary and with stringent conditions attached. If they don't make progress, you turn them lose and let them starve if that's what they choose to do.


Let 'em starve? That's certainly a charitable thought!

Charity is a fine thing but we're talking about what's done with our taxes and taxes have NOTHING to do with charity.

But yes, if they won't do anything to help themselves, then let them starve!

Is that a tenet of morality found someplace in the Bible you've repeatedly cited as a moral compass?

Actually, I haven't cited the Bible except to reply to someone who appeared to be.

However, if you read the Bible, you will find a lot in there concering work ethic and responsibility. You'll also find quit a bit dealing with who the church is responsible for taking care of and when.

In reality, nobody "chooses" to starve in this country, but some do - and one is too many.
Who is starving? Maybe they don't choose to starve but they certainly do choose to let someone else feed them and do NOTHING to improve their situation.

Why won't you place any of the responsibility on them? If a person won't take responsibility for themself, why should someone else?
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Kunena Birthday Module

  • irideazippo birthday is today
  • McCutcheon969 birthday is today
  • RidingGrace birthday is today
  • trueworthy birthday is today
  • 56power65 birthday is in 1 day
  • Brenda-MI birthday is in 1 day
  • farriergodmother birthday is in 1 day
  • Jetikarabbit birthday is in 1 day
  • Myr_4089 birthday is in 1 day
  • texfarrier birthday is in 1 day
  • lindar131 birthday is in 363 days
  • Dennis Peveto birthday is in 364 days
  • ironmanhorseshoeing birthday is in 364 days
  • Robyn Beane birthday is in 364 days
  • vanderblij birthday is in 364 days
Time to create page: 0.255 seconds

S5 Box

Register

*
*
*
*
*
*

Fields marked with an asterisk (*) are required.