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TOPIC: AFA Mid-Year Mtg Chatanooga, TN

AFA Mid-Year Mtg Chatanooga, TN 15 Sep 2008 15:37 #1

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If you are interested, click here to read the meeting report on FarrierFacts Blog.

Susan Kayne
UnbridledTV
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RE:AFA Mid-Year Mtg Chatanooga, TN 20 Sep 2008 13:24 #2

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How come the AFA powers that be get all in an uproar when the AFA is discussed on this web site, yet continue, through their agent(s) to post on this web site when it suits them?

And, by the way, since there is no other venue now to discuss AFA stuff, the President, in his message, said I had left the AFA. Nothing could be further from the truth. I am a current, dues paying member of the AFA. My AFA # is 3414. I would certainly hope that in the next issue of the newsletter or the PF magazine, which ever comes first, the President will correct his disinformative error.

And, to further set the record straight, though I did indeed. on the advise of my attorney, resign as Treasurer of the AFA, the reasons for my action have everything to do with the current administration and nothing to do with any illegality on my part as (wrongfully)implied by the president in his missive to the masses. So if transparency is the goal, then the President ought to lay out all the facts instead of some self-serving partial truth.
Rick Burten PF

In the immortal words of Ron White: "But let me tell you something, folks: You can't fix S-tupid. There's not a pill you can take; there's not a class you can go to. S-tupid is forever."
."


Je pense donc je suis
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RE:AFA Mid-Year Mtg Chatanooga, TN 29 Sep 2008 12:08 #3

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What does being a CJF have to do with one's ability to successfully manage and lead a 501c3 corporation?

As I have maintained from the inception of this foolish rule that only allows someone who is a CJF to run for and/or hold, Executive office, there is a finite and rather small group of CJF's and of that number, there is an even smaller number of individuals who even want to stand for office. Thus, the vast and varied talent pool of the membership is negated, ignored and lost. Now that's one helluva way to run an organization...........

This foolish requirement effectively disenfranchises the majority of the membership of the AFA from ever holding office.

Sure smacks of a 'good ole' boys" club rather than a professional organization/association of responsible, forward thinking individuals. YMMV

Rick Burten, CJF
Rick Burten PF

In the immortal words of Ron White: "But let me tell you something, folks: You can't fix S-tupid. There's not a pill you can take; there's not a class you can go to. S-tupid is forever."
."


Je pense donc je suis
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RE:AFA Mid-Year Mtg Chatanooga, TN 29 Sep 2008 16:10 #4

  • Jack Evers
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Rick probably remembers, but there was once a proposal that someone would have to be a CF before they could be a member -- We ( I was on the Bod at the time) voted that one down or it would have truly been the most foolish rule of all. Unfortunately IMO the "president must be a CJF" rule isn't far behind.

3000+ members, perhaps a couple hundred CJF's, many, like me, old enough to have lost the fire needed to take leadersip leaves a very small pool. The new member who may well have come from an organizational background but has not had the time and experience to reach CJF level may well be the best candidate, but can't be considered.

The magazine situation is the same mindset. A small group of people, who are afraid to see something in print that they disagree with, think full time farriers should be part time publishers, while slamming the part time horseshoer. As a result we come up short on articls. Why is there such a great fear of new ideas from outside the establishment.
Jack Evers CJF AFA#426

The best things about the good old days -- I wasn't good and I wasn't old.

The older I get, the more horses I shoe, the fewer things that I can absolutely, positively fix.
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RE:AFA Mid-Year Mtg Chatanooga, TN 30 Sep 2008 02:36 #5

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Jack Evers wrote:
The magazine situation is the same mindset. A small group of people, who are afraid to see something in print that they disagree with, think full time farriers should be part time publishers, while slamming the part time horseshoer. As a result we come up short on articls. Why is there such a great fear of new ideas from outside the establishment.

In the past year I tried to submit 2 articles, but never received so much as a "No thanks", so really doubt if I will ever try to submit another. Yet on the other hand The Farriers Journal published my last one, guess they figured it was worth something.

Getting no response makes guys who have submitted an article the idea they are not appreciated so no wonder the AFA Mag has a hard time getting articles.
Mikel Dawson, RJF

(Denmark)
What part of "NO" don't you understand!!

Caution: Watch for hoof in mouth disease!!!
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RE:AFA Mid-Year Mtg Chatanooga, TN 30 Sep 2008 19:07 #6

  • George Geist
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Rick Burten wrote:
How come the AFA powers that be get all in an uproar when the AFA is discussed on this web site, yet continue, through their agent(s) to post on this web site when it suits them?
Interesting and good point you bring up Rick. I'm sure a few others besides me would like to know what's up with that?



Rick Burten wrote:
What does being a CJF have to do with one's ability to successfully manage and lead a 501c3 corporation?

As I have maintained from the inception of this foolish rule that only allows someone who is a CJF to run for and/or hold, Executive office, there is a finite and rather small group of CJF's and of that number, there is an even smaller number of individuals who even want to stand for office. Thus, the vast and varied talent pool of the membership is negated, ignored and lost. Now that's one helluva way to run an organization...........

This foolish requirement effectively disenfranchises the majority of the membership of the AFA from ever holding office.

Sure smacks of a 'good ole' boys" club rather than a professional organization/association of responsible, forward thinking individuals. YMMV

Rick Burten, CJF
Couldn't have said it better. Agreed 100%

The most interesting thing about this continued politicization of their certification is why? We know they'll never say why this policy was left intact or the reasons they feel so strongly it should be this way but it sure would have been cool to have been a fly on the wall at that meeting;):)
George
For another fun place to play........
www.horseshoersforum.invisionzone.com
Come over and say hello.
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RE:AFA Mid-Year Mtg Chatanooga, TN 30 Sep 2008 23:04 #7

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Jack Evers wrote:
Rick probably remembers, but there was once a proposal that someone would have to be a CF before they could be a member

Heck Jack, I remember when it was proposed that in order for an organization to become an AFA Chapter, every member of the organization had to be a member of the AFA. For some obvious reasons, that bit of insanity soon passed into file 9.
-- We ( I was on the Bod at the time) voted that one down or it would have truly been the most foolish rule of all. Unfortunately IMO the "president must be a CJF" rule isn't far behind.

Jack, its not the the president who now must be a CJF, it is anyone who stands for the offices of President, President-elect and Vice President, must be a CJF. This is because of the new order of succession that went into effect a couple of years ago. Now, only the Treasurer, Secretary and, I believe, BOD members, are not subject to this restriction. Which begs the question of why BOD members don't have to be CJF's, not that I think they should have to be so.

I was going to look up the information on the AFA web site, but I just can't seem to find it anywhere on the new site. Too bad too. All of that stuff was readily available on the old web site.
3000+ members, perhaps a couple hundred CJF's, many, like me, old enough to have lost the fire needed to take leadersip leaves a very small pool. The new member who may well have come from an organizational background but has not had the time and experience to reach CJF level may well be the best candidate, but can't be considered.

My point exactly.
The magazine situation is the same mindset. A small group of people, who are afraid to see something in print that they disagree with, think full time farriers should be part time publishers, while slamming the part time horseshoer. As a result we come up short on articls. Why is there such a great fear of new ideas from outside the establishment.

Perhaps the Chairman of the Publications Committee would be in the best position to answer the question. Quien sabe?
Rick Burten PF

In the immortal words of Ron White: "But let me tell you something, folks: You can't fix S-tupid. There's not a pill you can take; there's not a class you can go to. S-tupid is forever."
."


Je pense donc je suis
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RE:AFA Mid-Year Mtg Chatanooga, TN 01 Oct 2008 13:59 #8

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Jack Evers wrote:
Rick probably remembers, but there was once a proposal that someone would have to be a CF before they could be a member

Mr. Evers and others might remember, once upon a time you had to be certified to vote.
Soliceter General Warning: This message may not have been spell checked for your protection
Just a piece of advice, think to yourself is this something I would say in front of a client, before your click the submit button.
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RE:AFA Mid-Year Mtg Chatanooga, TN 01 Oct 2008 16:19 #9

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Rules are almost always made to fill a specific reason.

Rule's always need to be open for change, as in growing outside the boundries of said rules.

People need to be flexible to realize rules can become out lived and need to be changed or expanded upon.

When a resource pool become's threateningly small, it becomes a noose around the organizations neck. The pool of available qualified folks will become smaller and smaller.
The programs will never have new input, or new concepts, or anything that will spark interest and make folks want to join.

Using folks with the skills, talent, and savy to move things along and keep up with the ever changing challenges of growth and new idea's means dropping the stiff requirements of being a CJF.

There can be other requirements put in place such as a tenure requirement in the AFA for example.

There are so many talented folks who are well prepared to assist in and have the desire to aid in the longevity and growth of the AFA, who at the present are uneligible due to the CJF restriction.

Growing means change and change instills growth.

How can it not be a bit biased when to the best of my knowledge, it was CJF's who voted to keep this restriction in place.
Even with all the good intentions of those involved you have continued to keep a strangle hold on the very association you are working to see grow ...

On the Magazine.
I will follow up on Mikels statement and I am sure Danvers or April will be in touch with Mikel.

Remember folks, it is easy to complain or question. It is much harder to get involved and work to make a change.
Change doesn't always come from the top. It can be instituted from the bottom.


Change means not being impatient, but to be patient.
Idea's, formulation of idea's, approval of idea's, implementation of idea's,
All this is a slow process to have it done correctly.

my 2 cents worth ;)
"you may not like what I say" !
-but-
"you'll never have any doubts where I stand
quote Cindy Matthews 1948-2006


I thought my life had come to a close with Cindy's passing, but there is life after death Thankyou Sharon !

Bruce Matthews
Southeast...
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RE:AFA Mid-Year Mtg Chatanooga, TN 01 Oct 2008 16:35 #10

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I think some funamentals are being overlooked. A company or organization will thrive if it offers value and is managed well. ok, that's a little vague but I would ask the question "why are there so many farriers who don't care to be members?"...without a market, management (how you service that market) doesn't matter.
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RE:AFA Mid-Year Mtg Chatanooga, TN 01 Oct 2008 17:39 #11

Mike Ferrara wrote:
I would ask the question "why are there so many farriers who don't care to be members?"
I realize that what the AFA basically has to offer is, Certification,
and to get that one needs to be a member.

In my neck of the woods, we have an association,
and the only noticeable benefit is you get into the yearly conference cheaper,
and the dues help to support the local Farrier Team that competes.
No help to me.

I used to be a member when I was new and excited,
but now I am not new and I get a lot out of The AFJ.
Kinda like a personal clinic any time any place I want.
If I wish to be certified and I belong to my local association,
I would still need to join the AFA.

The good ol’boy clubs need to offer more than a good ol’boy club,
to me, to get excited enough to join.
As it seems to me I don't need to be a member to attend the clinics or what have you.

I am not complaining, Just offering some input to the Quoted question.
Bradley SaintJohn

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RE:AFA Mid-Year Mtg Chatanooga, TN 01 Oct 2008 17:56 #12

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Bradley-1stChoice wrote:
I realize that what the AFA basically has to offer is, Certification,
and to get that one needs to be a member.

In my neck of the woods, we have an association,
and the only noticeable benefit is you get into the yearly conference cheaper,
and the dues help to support the local Farrier Team that competes.
No help to me.

I used to be a member when I was new and excited,
but now I am not new and I get a lot out of The AFJ.
Kinda like a personal clinic any time any place I want.
If I wish to be certified and I belong to my local association,
I would still need to join the AFA.

The good ol’boy clubs need to offer more than a good ol’boy club,
to me, to get excited enough to join.
As it seems to me I don't need to be a member to attend the clinics or what have you.

I am not complaining, Just offering some input to the Quoted question.

That's pretty close to the way I see it.
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RE:AFA Mid-Year Mtg Chatanooga, TN 01 Oct 2008 18:00 #13

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vthorseshoe wrote:

Growing means change and change instills growth.

Change isn't always a good thing.
Change means not being impatient, but to be patient.
Idea's, formulation of idea's, approval of idea's, implementation of idea's,
All this is a slow process to have it done correctly.

Change isn't necessarily slow. It's not my experience that patience results in change. On the contrary, the impatient desire for different results would seem a great driver of change.
Remember folks, it is easy to complain or question. It is much harder to get involved and work to make a change.
Change doesn't always come from the top. It can be instituted from the bottom.

That would be a great point if it were a paid position.
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RE:AFA Mid-Year Mtg Chatanooga, TN 01 Oct 2008 21:41 #14

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Mike and Bradley, If you believe that certification and a lower rate to get into the yearly convention is all you get then we need to open some eye's.

Another benifit not listed is the comaraderie that comes from being a member.

Certification is nothing without the journey it takes you on to achieve your certification.
You gain that by working and studying to pass the tests involved.
(and in my opinion, you can gain this whether it is a Guild test, AFA test,Union Shoers testing, even BWFA test.

It is the sharing of knowledge that comes and the life long friendships developed.
It is knowing you have passed an exam others haven't and that you accomplished this by sharing and learning from others.

$150. a yearly dues includes a $50,000.00 death and dismemberment coverage .
Break that down and you tell me how many pennies a dayt that is and show me where you can get a policy like this for that price ?

The discounts from the following companies, idf used by the members adds up to huge savings in total cost of what your buying. (Ask Ken Norman what he saved buying a new tractor with the savings from the discount. I can tell you it was substantial...)

Look at the other benifits;

Someone told me the AFA benifits paid to have his house painted.


The AFA, through its Member Services Committee, works diligently to provide benefits to its members. The following benefits are available:

The magazine is all that most ever talk about, but even that is only one part of the whole picture.

PUBLICATIONS:
Professional Farrier™, bi-monthly magazine
No Foot No Horse™, bi-monthly newsletter
Membership Directory, produced annually
Certification Guide, the only official AFA Certification study guide

NTRA ADVANTAGE
John Deere- Save on selected models of agricultural, construction and lawn and garden equipment

UPS- Up to 30% off next day and 2nd day shipping and up to 5% off ground

OfficeDepot- Preferred member pricing on thousands of office supplies, furniture & technology

Sherwin Williams- Up to 40% off list price on in-store products

Toshiba- Up to 25% off all Toshiba Direct list prices

Equine Travel Advantage- Up to 60% off travel expenses

INSURANCE
Markel Insurance Company- Farriers Liability & Care, Custody & Control with an Equipment Supplies floater

Cigma Group Insurance- All regular members of the AFA are automatically covered by a $50,000 Accidental Death and Dismemberment Policy

AFA LOGO APPAREL
Loose Shoe Embroidery

ADDITIONAL BENEFITS

Complimentary promotional AFA brochures
Educational opportunities through the AFA Certification Program
Pre-Certification workshops
Horse Owner Clinics
AFA Title Sponsorship of all AFA Certifications which provides insurance for the event
15% discount on admission to the Kentucky Horse park and gift shop purchases
Free listing on the AFA web site
Free link to your web site
Reduced registration rate to the Annual Convention


If many of you only knew the many hard working farriers and office workers and sponsors that work so hard to provide you with an association.
But you probably never will because they do this behind the scene and don't ask for any recognition.

my 2 cents worth ;)
"you may not like what I say" !
-but-
"you'll never have any doubts where I stand
quote Cindy Matthews 1948-2006


I thought my life had come to a close with Cindy's passing, but there is life after death Thankyou Sharon !

Bruce Matthews
Southeast...
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RE:AFA Mid-Year Mtg Chatanooga, TN 01 Oct 2008 22:04 #15

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Mike, in an organization of any stature that is run with a concience for the welfare of others has to have checks and balance's.
That is why change is slow in many situations. To take an idea or suggestion, run it by others and if it worthy then form aproject and send it to a committee to build and put the project together. Then it is presented to the BOD for approval. Then it is either approved or shot down.
If it is approved then it is back to the committee to set the project rolling.

Money to fund the project has to be approved and that means submitting
a request to the BOD then to the treasurer.

All of these proceedurers are checks and balances. They take time and that is where I say patience is involved. The wheels move slowly at times.
All the folksa involved have their own farrier business;s and customers they service like you and me.
They volunteer their time to the AFA and do so with a passion to be involved for the betterment of all.

my 2 cents worth ;)
"you may not like what I say" !
-but-
"you'll never have any doubts where I stand
quote Cindy Matthews 1948-2006


I thought my life had come to a close with Cindy's passing, but there is life after death Thankyou Sharon !

Bruce Matthews
Southeast...
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