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TOPIC: JibJab Election 2008

RE:JibJab Election 2008 20 Jul 2008 15:24 #31

  • Tom Stovall CJF
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Uncle Fester (bravely posting anonymously) in gray, stuff deleted

1)How is my logic faulty High gas prices are the result of supply and demand, thats what I said and thats what you said so we are either both right or both wrong.

I'm right, you're wrong. :)

Which is it? Like we both said, lack of drilling and refineries.


You said "lack of drilling," not me; your argument is based on a false premise and thus illogical.

Who lifted that executive ban on offshore drilling? Thats right my man Bush.


Do you know what an "executive order" is? Your man Bush, not the evil Democrats, ordered the ban on offshore drilling and that order was in effect until this week!

2)If you do not want your tax refund send it back.


Does anyone really think a fiscal band aid will stop arterial bleeding?

3) so you are saying that the answer to high gas prices is for the government to mandate a cap on the salary of oil company executives?


It wouldn't bother me in the least to see Big Oil broken up in the same way that Rockerfeller's Standard Oil was.

This is a free country and if what you call the "grunts" don't feel like they are getting paid fairly they can strike and negotiate, if they are easily replaceable then the chances are they are getting paid fairly.

Before you make such a silly statement, you might want to take a look at refinery life in the real world. Unions don't have a chance when management routinely hires "temporary workers", many of whom are illegal aliens who do not read or write English. Of course, the inability to read English can create a few problems around a refinery and every once in a while somebody ignores the written word and a refinery blows up, causing a price escalation in refined products. Oops!

And you won't hear any argument from me on the practice of hiring illegals. If they are doing so they should be fined heavily and the illegals should be deported. But what party is it that supports illegals? the dems.

So, you'll join me in calling for legislation that would make it a felony for anyone to hire someone without a valid social security number?

4)Your comments that all our soldiers that have died have already died in vain are so ungrateful and disrespectful that I don't even know how to respond.

Reality may not be palatable, but it's nonetheless reality. Ever wonder why Bush banned pictures of the coffins of our fallen soldiers?

5) I believe I am sticking to the issues when it comes to Obama which point would you disagree with?

All of the unsubstantiated ones. :)

6) Have you ever heard about someone yelling fire in a crowded house, or the fact that if you say something enough times to enough people then people start to believe it is true. Did you notice we were not in a recession until a month or two after the mainstream media started telling us we were?


Your knowledge of economics is absolutely astounding! Has is occurred to you that our continually borrowing money to pursue a war we started might be hurting our economy by devaluing the American dollar? That NAFTA and similar programs might not be in the best interests of the American economy? That our sending jobs offshore and failure to protect American industry might be good for the world economy and multinational corporations, but bad for America's economy? If you really think the US is better off economically now than it was 10 years ago, just count the foreclosures. :(
Tom Stovall, CJF
"The only foolish question is the one left unasked."
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RE:JibJab Election 2008 20 Jul 2008 16:02 #32

  • Uncle Fester
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Here we go again,
Your claim is that Iraq was an innocent victim? The comparison is that we mugged Iraq? To get what? Oil? Then why don't we take it? Why have we continuously bent over backward to help these people out? We didn't mug anyone and the comparison is retarded. You would have us believe Saddam was a good and honest man who wrongly got ousted by the arrogant americans. Secondly, all your Bush quotes were just as I suspected not at all lies, every quote was accurate at the time given the information available to the president and international community. A lie consists of a willful intent to decieve and you certainly did not and will not be able to prove that our commander in cheif masterminded duking an entire nation (multiple nations in fact) into going into a war, for what? What is it you think Bush was scheming? High approval ratings? You think he wanted to see soldiers get killed? PLEASE! I don't know what else I can tell you when you keep insisting Bush is "directly responsible" for all the soldiers who lost their lives. That is the nature of war, in war we don't run up to the enemy and slap them on the wrist. People get killed that is the unfortunate truth. Thats why they call it war. Of course the guy that shot the gun or planted the roadside bomb couldn't be responsible. Is it your claim that every president of every country that has ever been to war in the history of the world is responsible for the deaths that subsequently occured? Our soldiers know the risk they take when they sign the dotted line. If you take a job as a roofer, you may fall off a roof, if your a farrier, you might get kicked, if your a soldier you may go to war and you may not come back.
What about all the lives our soldiers have saved?
2) when you say I'm wrong are you disputing the congressional vote to declare war on iraq, was bush the only one who voted for the war? Actually a Majority of democrats supported the war effort initially and republicans as well of course, not to mention a majority of the american people.
3)I don't think I said anything about Iraq invading us. But you are correct they did not. Did they pose a significant potential threat? yes they certainly did.
4)LMAO back at ya, what the heck is it you think we are trying to establish in Iraq if not a stable democracy?
Please, you are killing me here, turn down national public radio, turn off cnn, open your mind that maybe, just maybe you've been completely led down the wrong path here. Remember common sense?
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RE:JibJab Election 2008 20 Jul 2008 16:21 #33

  • Uncle Fester
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Are you saying a lack of drilling has not contributed to the supply of oil?
2) My man Bush did not make the executive order banning offshore drilling, He lifted it. The Ban was actually put in place by Bush senior. But lets think for a minute here whats keeping us from drilling, oh yeah its Nancy Pelossi and the democratic congress who are not gonna lift the CONGRESSIONAL BAN on offshore drilling. So who is standing in the way of lower prices and an increased supply of oil?
3) definitely 100% i would agree with you and join you in calling for legislation to make hiring of illegals a felony.
4) these foreclosures are workin great for me as I'm negotiating the price to purchase a new home this week as a matter of fact. I think maybe these people should have read the small print and realized that they were actually gonna be responsible for paying for these homes. Personal accountability.
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RE:JibJab Election 2008 20 Jul 2008 16:58 #34

  • Tom Stovall CJF
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Uncle Fester (bravely posting anonymously) in gray

Your claim is that Iraq was an innocent victim?

Iraq is indisputably the victim of an invasion.

The comparison is that we mugged Iraq? To get what? Oil? Then why don't we take it? Why have we continuously bent over backward to help these people out? We didn't mug anyone and the comparison is retarded.


What part of my analogy was beyond your comprehension? Iraq is still in the process of being "mugged" by an aggressor on the basis of the agressor's disinformation and outright lies to its citizenry. We are that aggressor!

You would have us believe Saddam was a good and honest man who wrongly got ousted by the arrogant americans.

Nossir, I'd simply tell it like it is: Saddam was despotic tyrant whose country was invaded by the United States on the basis of the Bush administration's lies to the American public.

Secondly, all your Bush quotes were just as I suspected not at all lies, every quote was accurate at the time given the information available to the president and international community.

Nossir, every Bush quote I posted was a lie of either commission or omission and knowingly made with the intention of deceiving the American public.

I don't know what else I can tell you when you keep insisting Bush is "directly responsible" for all the soldiers who lost their lives.

Bush invaded Iraq without reason; ergo, he is responsible for every casualty.

2) When you say I'm wrong are you disputing the congressional vote to declare war on iraq, was bush the only one who voted for the war? Actually a Majority of democrats supported the war effort initially and republicans as well of course, not to mention a majority of the american people.

When a bunch of folks do something stoopid, it's still something stoopid. In reality, a great many folks believed the Bush administration's lies and supported the invasion on the basis of that belief.

3)I don't think I said anything about Iraq invading us. But you are correct they did not. Did they pose a significant potential threat? yes they certainly did.

In simple, declarative sentences, please detail exactly how a stone age country, 6,000 miles away, with neither WMDs nor means of delivery, can possibly pose a significant threat to the US.

4)LMAO back at ya, what the heck is it you think we are trying to establish in Iraq if not a stable democracy?

Most likely a puppet government friendly to US interests- and that's exactly what's been established. But, it sure as hell ain't democracy and if everybody gets to vote, Iraq will be an Islamic theocracy tomorrow.

Please, you are killing me here, turn down national public radio, turn off cnn, open your mind that maybe, just maybe you've been completely led down the wrong path here. Remember common sense?

Reality can be difficult to accept, but it's still reality. It's easy to be an intellectual lemming, marching in lockstep with either the right or left; on the other hand, it's a bit more difficult to think for oneself. Perhaps you might give it a try. :)
Tom Stovall, CJF
"The only foolish question is the one left unasked."
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RE:JibJab Election 2008 20 Jul 2008 18:37 #35

Uncle Fester wrote:
Phil, I think the fact that enlistment numbers have been up throughout the war, and that we've not even had to consider re-instating the draft is a testament to the patriotism of our young men and women who are willing to toe the line against the enemy and defend our right to sit here and express our views however we see fit and not worry about getting blown up by a suicide bomber at walmart. I agree that a lot of the new recruits are what we'd consider kids when they enlist, but I think they quickly earn the right to be considered men (and women) by serving this country, especially in a time of war. Don't forget that every soldier is not a fresh faced kid just out of school, there are many family men, fathers, husbands, mothers, wives, sure nuff adults, in there late twentys and thirtys over there as we speak. I think it is demeaning to these people to refer to them as kids. When I really was just a kid working on a ranch in Kansas, I was told if you work like a man you'll be treated like a man. I hold everyone over 18 to that standard. Sure we have college kids (18-24) spending daddy's money driving a truck daddy bought them, and they haven't worked a day in their lives. To me these are "kids". If you want respect you gotta earn it, and I think every member of our armed forces has done just that.

Very rarely does a young man or woman join the armed forces because they are a good patriot and that has been that way for generations. If this were the case then past generations must have been poor patriots requiring a draft. It is based on economy, availability of jobs, need for continuing education to compete in the job market. Back in the farming and factory job days all you had to do is be a good worker. Men and women join for personal reasons, free education, a job, free training. Yes they know the risk of joining is the obligation to country first, however lets get real, the economy is not that good, college education will put you into debt for years before you even get started in life and joining the military is a risk worth takeing. So with a recession on the horizon, hi cost of living, less and less jobs it sure is easy for this country to get volunteers. :rolleyes:

I wish life were as easy as just working hard and you gain respect by the men on the ranch. Watch the sun set and rise, work hard and have a good tired at the end of a honest days work that you can sleep well and then get up and do it all over again. I wish this on every man and women in this country. No more fast pace life, stress, hi tech gizmos. Just a simple life full of contentment. Put down the sword and pick of a farm tool or hammer and make stuff all day. :)
Phil Armitage, CF
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"Anyone who proposes to do good must not expect people to roll stones out of his way, but must accept his lot calmly if they even roll a few more upon it." Albert Schweitzer
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RE:JibJab Election 2008 20 Jul 2008 19:06 #36

  • Tom Stovall CJF
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Uncle Fester (bravely posting anonymously) in gray

Are you saying a lack of drilling has not contributed to the supply of oil?

Right now, the bottleneck is at the refineries, not in the supply of crude.

2) My man Bush did not make the executive order banning offshore drilling, He lifted it. The Ban was actually put in place by Bush senior. But lets think for a minute here whats keeping us from drilling, oh yeah its Nancy Pelossi and the democratic congress who are not gonna lift the CONGRESSIONAL BAN on offshore drilling.

LMAO! Tell it like it is: Your man Bush maintained an executive order banning offshore drilling in certain areas until the third week in July, '08. If he'd wanted to lift the executive order, he could've done so at any time during his first 7 1/2 years in office, but he chose not to do so until it became politically expedient.

So who is standing in the way of lower prices and an increased supply of oil?

Follow the money. The multinationals who comprise the de facto Big Oil Monoply are operating at record profits and have absolutely no incentive to make less money.

4) these foreclosures are workin great for me as I'm negotiating the price to purchase a new home this week as a matter of fact.


How nice for you. It's a good thing you aren't one of the millions of working stiffs whose jobs have been sent offshore with the blessing of the Bush administration or one of those unfortunates who've been laid off so their employer could hire "temporaries" and "part timers", thereby negating the necessity of offering benefits to the rank and file. Hopefully, you and yours aren't uninsured or underinsured, so catastrophic illness or accident won't have you living under a bridge instead of in your new house. Folks who think they're sitting in the economic catbird seat and arrogantly look down their collective noses at those unfortunates who've lost their homes are well advised to remember the little proverb that goes, "There, but for the grace of God, go I."

I think maybe these people should have read the small print and realized that they were actually gonna be responsible for paying for these homes. Personal accountability.

Evidently, it's tough to keep up the mortgage when one's employer has been bought out by a multinational and the workforce downsized; or, as was the case of Mustad's acquisition of Simonds, the entire company was moved to a third world country to make it more profitable. Stateless multinationals have allegiance only to their stockholders, they don't worry overmuch about the US economy or whether the folks affected by their policies will be able to pay their mortgages.
Tom Stovall, CJF
"The only foolish question is the one left unasked."
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RE:JibJab Election 2008 20 Jul 2008 19:24 #37

Uncle Fester,

I wonder how offensive and heartbreaking it must be to tell hard working dedicated men and women that they lost their homes because of poor planning. Dedicated hard working men and women that had the rug pulled out from underneath them by undedicated lazy uncaring businesses that only look out for themselves and make record profits off the hard work of dedicated caring and honest people. I wonder how many of these folks owned horses and use to be able to afford the monthly board, horse shows and your farrier bill?
Phil Armitage, CF
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"Anyone who proposes to do good must not expect people to roll stones out of his way, but must accept his lot calmly if they even roll a few more upon it." Albert Schweitzer
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RE:JibJab Election 2008 20 Jul 2008 19:28 #38

  • ray steele
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Tom Stovall, CJF wrote:
Uncle Fester (bravely posting anonymously) in gray


Evidently, it's tough to keep up the mortgage when one's employer has been bought out by a multinational and the workforce downsized; or, as was the case of Mustad's acquisition of Simonds, the entire company was moved to a third world country to make it more profitable. Stateless multinationals have allegiance only to their stockholders, they don't worry overmuch about the US economy or whether the folks affected by their policies will be able to pay their mortgages.


For clarity sake,

As I understand it, Mustard only bought the Simonds hoof rasp/farrier line, previously a division of Simonds International. Simonds International still shows operations in the USA, China etc. on their website.


Regards

Ray Steele
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RE:JibJab Election 2008 20 Jul 2008 19:29 #39

  • Cyber Farrier
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Uncle Fester wrote:
Are you saying...

Either put your full name on your posts in this forum, or stop posting in it.

Baron
“Suppose you were an ******. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself.”
- Mark Twain

“There is no distinctly native American criminal class... save Congress.”
-Mark Twain

“No man's life, liberty, or property is safe...
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RE:JibJab Election 2008 20 Jul 2008 20:02 #40

  • Rick Burten
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ray steele wrote:
For clarity sake,

As I understand it, Mustard only bought ......

Perhaps Mustard now wants to expand its Muscrat studs line?

:o:D:D:)
Rick Burten PF

In the immortal words of Ron White: "But let me tell you something, folks: You can't fix S-tupid. There's not a pill you can take; there's not a class you can go to. S-tupid is forever."
."


Je pense donc je suis
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RE:JibJab Election 2008 20 Jul 2008 23:36 #41

I agree that we have some very serious problems to address in this nation. I hate to agree that most elections, not just htis one, are the choice of the lesser of two evils. In my opinion all of our problems cannot be blamed on only one person. I do not agree with everything Bush has done. However, I do believe that once something is started, it needs to be finished. I understand that a lot of good people have died in Iraq, but the number comes no where near comparing to the number of lives lost in just the battle for Iwo Jima, which lasted no where near this long. Please do not misunderstand that statement, I have lost personal friends to this war, and have the deepest respect for all our soldiers over seas, but you know, most of them wouldnt have it any other way.
I am not the best educated in political science, and I dont have any simple answers to turn the country around, I just believe that we all need to pull our own wieght, and work together instead of bickering and arguing.
Tax breaks?? How about this? Instead of giving them to people that several children out of wedlock that thye cannot support, how giving bonuses to the people that are responsible enough to not have children they cannot support?
How about instead of giving so much aid to illegals, we crack down and only let the ones in that prove that they will contribute to our country? What about going back to the biblical standards this country was founded on? How about charging the same tax rate on everyone, across the board? What about Social Security? I have gotten several emails about that lately. Are they true? How it was originally supposed to be optional? How it was originally not allowed to be used by our govt at all? And how the Dems changed that to what it is now?
McCaine or Oboma? Mr Oboma would not even place his hand on his heart and say our Pledge of Allegiance! Does that not offend any of you???? It sure as hell does me! McCaine served in our military and was a prisoner of war. Does that make him better suited for the job? Im not sure, but at least he believed in our country enough to be their. At least he has enough respect for this great nation to make a stand.
I am a FL native, moved to WV over a year ago, had some family issues to tend to so Im currently traveling back and forth shoeing horses. I hear about this big deal of drilling off of FL coasts, but do you know that most oil producing countrys have drill rigs 50 miles off our coast, except us? I dont anyone here opposed to it. Everyone, however, is having a hard time paying thier gas bill.
Just some thoughts I wanted to share. Some of you may know something that I dont, and I would love to hear youre opinions and learn from youre experience. I am normally the be quiet and listen kind of guy, but I felt like I needed to share my opinion. Hope I didnt offend any of you.
Sincerely,
Matt McMicken
Its as good as I can do it, every time I get to do it

Matt McMicken
Farriery and such
FL (239)243-4325
WV (304)647-0100
USA
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RE:JibJab Election 2008 20 Jul 2008 23:37 #42

  • solidrockshoer
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We have plenty of our own oil to go and get. Our government is the problem. It's easier/cheaper to go drill in other places than to get the permits to rebuild what broke from Katrina.

Although I don't hear it mentioned very often, who's the brilliant person(s) that decided Isreal should have a state in Jerusalem? Wasn't their one other place on Earth to give them a state? How about Kansas? Things would be much easier is they were somewhere else.
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RE:JibJab Election 2008 20 Jul 2008 23:39 #43

  • solidrockshoer
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Cyber Farrier wrote:
Either put your full name on your posts in this forum, or stop posting in it.

Baron

Baron, aren't there political blogs these folks can be posting on?

I thought this forum was limited to the equine distal limb only?




-Liz Johnson
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RE:JibJab Election 2008 20 Jul 2008 23:41 #44

  • solidrockshoer
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Excellent points Matt! I very much agree.
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RE:JibJab Election 2008 20 Jul 2008 23:41 #45

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El_Scorcho wrote:
Baron, aren't there political blogs these folks can be posting on?

I thought this forum was limited to the equine distal limb only?




-Liz Johnson


The fact is Liz, farriers listen to a lot of talk radio due to the boredom throughout the day. Most of us are fairly up to date on politics even if we don't want to be. :)
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