In regards to the economy and how the republicans and democrats deal with it consider this…………. Obama and the democrats want to raise taxes on the wealthy. These are the very people that create jobs. It’s been shown time and time again that when taxes are raised on the wealthy and middle class (who are the small business owners in this country), businesses fold and joblessness rates rise. When tax incentives are in place or tax cuts are offered to the same group of people, the confidence in the economy increases and these same people EXPAND their businesses, creating jobs for the otherwise unemployed. In turn these employees contribute to the economy in the form of taxes.

The Fair Tax is what we need to save the American economy. I’m not sure that McCain gets this but I’m certain that Obama doesn’t. I think this year we choose the least of the two evils, unfortunately. Perhaps in 4 years, someone with a vision for this country will step up and do what they have been elected to do. Aside from that, term limits in congress would go a long way to help decrease the corruption that stagnates progress.

JMO,

Derin

Phil check this out. If there is anyone who knows somthing about terrorism it's this man. I agree with him and would love to vote for him to be president, he'd do a great job.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZiw3qVdFzw

NJFarrierCJF wrote:
Spending a life time in fear of terrorism does not constitute knowledge and understanding. Talking to Gingrich about this would be like talking to a brick wall. The guy is an extremest with a closed mind. His comment on Iran having nuclear and will use them is the same thing the Bush administration said to justify going to war with Iraq only to find nothing. All he would do is get us deeper and deeper in trouble. Has the thought ever occurred to you that maybe some countries hate us because we don't mind our own business and impose our ideals and values on everyone?

beslagsmed wrote:
Good idea, I just may do that.

I get awful sick of people bad mouthing George Bush. Bush gets blamed for everything under the dang sun. I've heard people say Katrina was Bush's fault. You gotta be kidding! New Orleans is below sea level, thats why they bury people above ground, and thats why all the alcohol people vomit up on bourban street never finds its way to the gutter. I watched the news, the weather channel, and listened to the radio telling all those folks in New Orleans to evacuate the city for a week in advance. Everyone in the US knew Katrina was gonna hit New Orleans, and everyone in that town had enough warning the could have walked up to Arkansas. Then when the National Guard goes in and tries to help those not so smart individuals they get shot at. But of course its all Bush's fault. Now we hear people saying this is Bush's war. Never mind 90% of everyone was for the war to begin with, the weapons of mass destruction talking point is just democratic rhetoric. Sadam Hussein was an evil dictator and an enemy of the US who was giving safe haven to terrorists and was murdering thousands of his own innocent civilians, he failed to comply with UN sanctions and called our bluff. If you are gonna tell someone you better do so and so or else, you better back it up or you loose any further credibility. Hussein was a lot like Hitler. But Hitler didn't have weapons of mass destruction either did he, so I guess we shouldn't have stood up for those people either. The fact that Bush has the testicular fortitude to stick to his word is a testament to the fact that he is a man of character. Nevermind the fact that we've not had another terrorist attack since 9/11. Nevermind the extra cash you got back in your pocket that came from Bush. How bout these higher gas prices, of course they are Bush's fault, nevermind the democrats have continuously blocked attempts to pass legislation to allow offshore drilling, drilling in anwar, or the opening of new refineries. Nevermind the democrats have increased the amount you pay in taxes per gallon time and again. The democrats are responsible for the high gas prices and any reasonably minded individual would agree to that.
But maybe we should all vote for Barrack Hussein Obama, he's a man with experience right? He wants to cut and run from Iraq, so all our soldiers who have given their lives would then have died in vain. He wants to raise your taxes. He is all for abortion. He is against drilling. He was against the surge. He doesn't think we have a problem with illegal aliens, as a matter of fact he wants them all to get free medical care at your expense, and he wants them all to be able to vote too. After all they are not very well educated and therefore tend to vote democratic. Obama's idea of what America should be like is the exact definition of socialism. Republicans believe in individual responsibility and limited government intereference. Democrats believe in the opposite. I could go on forever.

Come on Uncle fester, tell us how you really feel.

I voted for Bush but I can tell you that I'm not a fan at this moment. I do however believe that he was the better choice of the two at the time. It's a shame that in the 21st century we have to vote for the lesser of the two evils, but it appears that is what we are about to face yet again this November.

I think it's a bit unfair to say that the lesser educated among us vote democratic, but I understand your point as far as entitlement programs, etc. I'm all in favor of helping those that can't help themselves but it ticks me off to no end to support those able bodied people who simply refuse to work whether they be mexicans, whites, or whatever.

Telling me that the 'extra cash in my pocket' came from Bush is a bit disingenuous since we borrowed it from China. We've sold our souls to those folks for 20-30 years and now THEY are reaping the benefits. My kids and grandkids will pay for the mistakes my generation has made and that's a sad fact.

As I said earlier in this thread, term limits for our congressmen would go a long way toward stabilizing this great country.

Derin

Derin, I'm all for the fair tax as you mentioned earlier. The candidate for that cause would of been Huckabee. I liked Romney, but we got who we got. But we better get behind him and support him or things are gonna get a lot worse. Last time I checked it was the Bush tax cuts, not the china tax cuts, I get your point but the fact is that if it were not for Bush that money would not have found its way to your mailbox, but if you want to contribute your share to china we'll understand. What I meant by the less educated comment is just that. Those with a hand out who actually think the government should provide for their needs from cradle to grave. The same government that spends 100,000 for a toilet seat or whatever that ridiculous amount was. Not only do these people think they are entitled, but they actually think it is possible and they naively trust the politician who promises the world. Those who vote democratic are ussually looking for the government to do something for them. Those who vote republican are ussually concerned more for the best interest of the country rather than what they think they can get out of the deal. Most people I meet who claim to be democrats, actually believe in the principles of the republican party moreso than the party they claim, they just have never been educated as to what each party is all about. If I hurt anyone's feelings I'm sorry but conservatives get all kinds of junk shoved done our throats by the main stream left wing media and its gonna start makin some of us snap.

Uncle Fester (bravely posting anonymously) in gray

I get awful sick of people bad mouthing George Bush.

I'm just sick of Bush.

Bush gets blamed for everything under the dang sun.

He turned a balanced budget into the largest deficit ever; lied to America about his reasons for invading Iraq, and - most importantly - has needlessly sacrificed the lives of more than 3,000 of America's best and brightest kids without reason. Anybody silly enough to think we're "fighting terrorism" in Iraq's civil war is beyond intellectual redemption because it simply ain't so.

I've heard people say Katrina was Bush's fault. But of course its all Bush's fault.

The buck stops where?

Now we hear people saying this is Bush's war. Never mind 90% of everyone was for the war to begin with, the weapons of mass destruction talking point is just democratic rhetoric.

Actually, it was Karl Rove's rhetoric and Bush's dismissal of the his own intelligence services' assessment of Iraq's nonexistent weaponry of mass destruction. Does it bother Limbaugh's Legions that not a single WMD has ever been found? After all, that was Dubya's excuse for invading Iraq.

Sadam Hussein was an evil dictator and an enemy of the US who was giving safe haven to terrorists and was murdering thousands of his own innocent civilians, he failed to comply with UN sanctions and called our bluff.

So the hell what? Kim Il Jong is a helluva lot worse, has killed more of his people, and has more UN sanctions against him, but we're not invading North Korea. Besides, since when does the UN have anything to do with US policy unless we choose to use if for an excuse for our actions?

If you are gonna tell someone you better do so and so or else, you better back it up or you loose any further credibility.

Our credibility hovers around zero at present. Our failure to acknowledge that Islam, not "radical" Islam is our enemy has folks wondering at the head-in-the-sand idiocy of American political correctness throughout the world. Doubts? When was the last time you heard a Muslim cleric condemn a suicide bomber? A rocket attack on Israel? the 9-11 attack on the US? Have you forgotten that the 9-11 attacks were financed by Saudi sources? Or, that most of the terrorists were Saudis?

Hussein was a lot like Hitler. But Hitler didn't have weapons of mass destruction either did he, so I guess we shouldn't have stood up for those people either.

Your understanding of history is quite unique. For starters, Hitler had WMDs, Saddam didn't. Hitler attacked American interests; Saddam didn't. We invaded Iraq; Iraq didn't invade the US.

The fact that Bush has the testicular fortitude to stick to his word is a testament to the fact that he is a man of character.

Bush invaded Iraq without provocation and is directly responsible for the deaths of more than 3,000 America soldiers. Character? I've seen dogturds with more character.

Nevermind the fact that we've not had another terrorist attack since 9/11.

Who was in charge when 9-11 happened? Where does the buck stop?

Nevermind the extra cash you got back in your pocket that came from Bush.

Extra cash? The economy is in the dumps, our dollar has taken a nosedive, and we're in the midst of a recession.

How bout these higher gas prices, of course they are Bush's fault, nevermind the democrats have continuously blocked attempts to pass legislation to allow offshore drilling, drilling in anwar, or the opening of new refineries.

Reckon the instability in the Middle East might have something to do with higher gas and diesel prices? Are you aware that until yesterday, offshore drilling was forbidden by executive order, not legislative mandate? Or, that while multinational oil companies whine about environmental regs, they somehow manage to pay their executives more than 1,000 times what the grunts in the refineries make - provided they haven't gone to contract labor consisting mostly if illegal aliens.

Nevermind the democrats have increased the amount you pay in taxes per gallon time and again. The democrats are responsible for the high gas prices and any reasonably minded individual would agree to that.

Your logic is a bit faulty: High gas prices are the result of supply and demand, lack of refining capacity, and instability and unrest in the Middle East.

But maybe we should all vote for Barrack Hussein Obama, he's a man with experience right? He wants to cut and run from Iraq, so all our soldiers who have given their lives would then have died in vain.

All of our soldiers who've died in Iraq have already died in vain, as will the next one to die. Bush's private war in Iraq is a civil war, we have no business there.

He wants to raise your taxes. He is all for abortion. He is against drilling. He was against the surge. He doesn't think we have a problem with illegal aliens, as a matter of fact he wants them all to get free medical care at your expense, and he wants them all to be able to vote too.

I'm not an Obama fan and I sure as hell wouldn't vote for him, but your lies about his stance on various issues are easily refuted. Why lie? Stick to the issues.

After all they are not very well educated and therefore tend to vote democratic. Obama's idea of what America should be like is the exact definition of socialism.

Only dummies vote Democratic? Damn, here I thought the Dems were the last bastion of academia.

Republicans believe in individual responsibility and limited government intereference.

You might want to check the amount of corporate welfare that came into existence during Bush's years in office. Remember, Dubya is the brilliant scholar who said, "Jobs going offshore is good for America."

Where the hell is ol' jug ears when you need him?

Democrats believe in the opposite. I could go on forever.

Hopefully, you'll stop before making an even greater fool of yourself.

Personally, I really like the idea of marking my ballot, "None of the above!"

Derin Foor wrote:
Derin,

Do ya think the other guy(Kerry) could have done much worse?

Realize this, we the American voters saw a 4 year preview of this last 4 years and still put the village (you fill in the blank) back into the office. Because of this I look into the mirror each morning and introduce my self to the fool who did not work hard enough to keep Bush et al out.

We agree completely on term limits.

Regards

Ray Steele

Tom, Tom, Tom,.... I'll just respond to your comments in order one by one.
1) Fighting a war costs a lot of money. That money goes to our troops. I would rather our men and women be equipped with whatever they need to get the job done than to cut corners and sacrifice lives for the sake of a
balanced budget.
2) I'm so sick of these Bush lied allegations you are espousing be specific here when exactly did he lie and what exactly was that lie? That is merely a baseless and ignorant allegation.
3) Bush sacrificed the lives of these "kids"? Are you kidding? Bush didn't kill anyone did he. The only ones who have killed our men and women who volounteered to fight this just war is the enemy. Not Bush. Bush is no more responsible for these soldiers sacrifice than any republican or democrat that voted for the war. But you would have us believe that the enemy is Bush and not these islamic extremists blowing our guys up?
4)I think our soldiers deserve more respect than for you to call them "kids" and if they are as you say and I agree some of our countries best and brightest what does that say that they obviously believe this war is worth winning?
5)What then would you say we are fighting for in Iraq? How bout an independent and democratic self sustaining government that can operate as an allie. How bout we went in to overthrow an evil dictator and mass murderer and we did just that saving countless lives. thats just all silliness right. So your saying our soldiers mission is just silly?
6)"The buck stops where?" How bout the buck should stop with those individuals that put themselves in that position.
7)Wrong again, WMDs were not the only reason we invaded Iraq. The best our intelligence told us at the time was that they did likely exist. That was not only our intelligence but the intelligence of our allies as well sir. We were forced to invade Iraq thanks to Saddam's failure to comply and allow inspectors in after repeated diplomatic attempts. (and) I wouldn't say that that bothers the "limbaugh legions" at all seeing as how we have a broader view of what this war was and is all about. Democrats would like this all to be about WMDs for sure.
8)Korea and Iran are threats we will have to deal with, would it have made you feel better if we invaded all these countries at once? Or are you of more of an isolationist and think "let the rest of the world suffer who cares I'm comfortable in my house". After all the mass graves found in Iraq, your answer is "so the hell what"?
9)Our credibility does not hover around zero, respect for our leadership abroad may be poor due to unpatriotic individuals in our own country who are wanting us to surrender and retreat and continue to loudly and constantly express the points you've made thus far about our own president and our motives for being in Iraq. These are the same individuals who think that Bush had a conspiracy to implode the twin towers.
10)Finally you say something that almost makes sense, Islamic extremists are the enemy period. This is where terrorists are bred. I agree that this fact condemns the entire religion. Are you suggesting we should have invaded Saudi Arabia rather than Iraq?
11)The times and the nature of the enemy we are fighting has changed since WW2, but both Saddam and Hitler are definitely similar in many ways. Both believed in and practiced mass murder both were sworn enemies of the United States, both were power hungry dictators. Did you forget that Saddam invaded Kuwait. Do you think he would have stopped there if we had not intervened? You contend that Hitler had weapons capable of doing more damage than those of the Iraqi army? Maybe they did, maybe I am ignorant of this fact. To my knowledge Hitler did not. But maybe you can educate me on this. Do you remember the antagonistic language used by Saddam leading up to the invasion? Suppose we had ignored our intelligence reports and cowardly backed down, Bush would be known as a coward, Iraq would have continued to pursue WMDs with the intent to use them against us and Iraq would have become a mecca for Islamic terrorists who would have then been funded and trained by Saddam. We would probably have been attacked several times by now and be in a real dogfight against a much stronger opponent than what we faced when we did invade.
12) "without provocation" your right, good old saddam and all that flag burning and rifle firing and anti-american rallies in the street. They were all a bunch of innocent bystanders over there weren't they. Mean old Bush.
13)here we are back on the Bush is responsible for our soldiers deaths again.
when these men and women signed up for the armed forces they knew they were not signing up for the girl scouts. they believed in the very cause you are trivializing and in doing so offending their intelligence and honor.
14) you like this "buck stop" way of thinking I know but how can you say the president is responsible for 9/11. Are you held responsible when an owner's horse gets a stone bruise? Is the president of Mcdonalds responsible that the other guys kid got more french fries in his happy meal? Of course it has to be someone's fault, we gotta blame someone, we can't blame the terrorists cause that would just make too much sense and we'd start to sound like republicans, so lets blame Bush cause we all got sour grapes when he won the last election and we want to see him suffer. see i can read your mind thru the computer.
15)You said dummies, not me. But I guess you can read my mind thru the computer as well
16)Lastly, I really like the idea of you marking your ballot none of the above as well! Finally we agree on something at the very end. No hard feelins Tom, we can keep this up or we can end it. whatever you like but I doubt we are gonna change each others minds. I bet we could see eye to eye on at least a few things when it comes to shoein horses, but me and you are sure like oil and water on this political stuff.

And believe it or not after all that writing I overlooked some of your points, I just couldn't let slide.
Tom,
1)How is my logic faulty High gas prices are the result of supply and demand, thats what I said and thats what you said so we are either both right or both wrong. Which is it? Like we both said, lack of drilling and refineries. Who lifted that executive ban on offshore drilling? Thats right my man Bush. Who is standing in the way of drilling? Thats right, democrats. Republicans have been pushing this issue for a long time now.
2)If you do not want your tax refund send it back.
3) so you are saying that the answer to high gas prices is for the government to mandate a cap on the salary of oil company executives? Maybe they should impose a cap on all executive salaries, or how bout all small business owners? This is a free country and if what you call the "grunts" don't feel like they are getting paid fairly they can strike and negotiate, if they are easily replaceable then the chances are they are getting paid fairly. And you won't hear any argument from me on the practice of hiring illegals. If they are doing so they should be fined heavily and the illegals should be deported. But what party is it that supports illegals? the dems.
4)Your comments that all our soldiers that have died have already died in vain are so ungrateful and disrespectful that I don't even know how to respond.
5) I believe I am sticking to the issues when it comes to Obama which point would you disagree with?
6) Have you ever heard about someone yelling fire in a crowded house, or the fact that if you say something enough times to enough people then people start to believe it is true. Did you notice we were not in a recession until a month or two after the mainstream media started telling us we were? Ever seen that movie wag the dog? Do you think the left wing media is gonna allow Bush to get out of office with the type of economic stability he has maintained throughout his term? Do I think they hate him that badly. You bet I do. They have shoved recession down our throats just to stick their thumb in Bush's eye. You are the perfect example of how the mainstream media has endoctrinated individuals toward their own leftist views. Personally I'm not in a recession, I'm makin more money than I ever have. What we are seeing and overreacting to is the trickle down effect of high gas prices, want to improve our economy again vote republican and we'll do a little drilling do a little refining and then, no more recession.
that about covers it, I'm goin to bed,

Uncle Fester. Most of the military members dying are kids. I debate these very issues on a daily basis with my future son in-law. Who is a very bright young man. Me the ole republican who voted for George Bush and he the young Democrat that likes Obama. Your singing to the choir Uncle Fester but this Choir member is taking a closer look at the facts. One question I have is why the volunteer force is so strong these days, has it ever occurred to you nobody has been drafted since Vietnam and the draft was needed during the so called "Great Generation" era?

Phil, I think the fact that enlistment numbers have been up throughout the war, and that we've not even had to consider re-instating the draft is a testament to the patriotism of our young men and women who are willing to toe the line against the enemy and defend our right to sit here and express our views however we see fit and not worry about getting blown up by a suicide bomber at walmart. I agree that a lot of the new recruits are what we'd consider kids when they enlist, but I think they quickly earn the right to be considered men (and women) by serving this country, especially in a time of war. Don't forget that every soldier is not a fresh faced kid just out of school, there are many family men, fathers, husbands, mothers, wives, sure nuff adults, in there late twentys and thirtys over there as we speak. I think it is demeaning to these people to refer to them as kids. When I really was just a kid working on a ranch in Kansas, I was told if you work like a man you'll be treated like a man. I hold everyone over 18 to that standard. Sure we have college kids (18-24) spending daddy's money driving a truck daddy bought them, and they haven't worked a day in their lives. To me these are "kids". If you want respect you gotta earn it, and I think every member of our armed forces has done just that.

...pretty darned accurate...anybody notice nobody's head ever hiy the chopping block over 9/11?

..and we have been attacked successfully since 9/11. Did we forget the Anthrax attacks that was traced back to our own military complex...and that G.W. was already on the antectdote Cipro when they hit?

THe sooner people get over themselves and realize we do not live in a left vs. right paradigm but a top down elite hierarchy, the sooner we can fix this country.
I never saw so many people just blindly follow the mainstream and sell their intelectual integrity for the hope of being in the majority...instead of standing on what they know is right and becoming the majority.

These "leaders"....have but one goal. To achieve power to rule over others. THey want their playground to be in better shape than they got it, and they look around and see too many of us getting in their way. They use fabricated stories to shape our opinions and use state sponsored events to rally us into killing our children here and abroad.
They tell us we can't have the freedoms we used to have because there are terrorists everywhere and somehow, us giving up our liberties will slow them down or bring them to light.
So they target old women in wheelchairs.
They put over a million citizens (the list is growing) on terror watch lists...for things like having the same last name of someone else...or protesting electronic voting machines...or citing the Constitution...or having a map on your front seat...or believing in the second coming of Christ.
They pass legislation no one reads on the marching orders of their elite bosses and make us feel good about that.
They try to tell us the Second Amendment is legal because it's for our home defense instead of the leverage it gave us against tyranny as it was intended.
And in all of that, they need more of you money....which... (at least in my case) translates into more of my time.
I figure it takes the average working stiff until somewhere around the end of June just to pay all their taxes...sales, excise, surcharge on phone, elect..etc. So now...in today's America...where it used to be perfectly acceptable and normal for one person to have a job and the wife stay home...to raise six or seven kids...and actually be financially able to do that...NOW, it takes two people working a full time job each just to pay the same bills our folks had.
TOMORROW, it won't be any cheaper, no matter who (from these choices) we install....why?
Because this country is lost. We've lost our direction somewhere and the better part of what it was that made us Americans.
When the day comes we get multiple stories on the latest crisis of Britanny Spears...instead of news like: Over 100 times every year, the Mexican Army comes onto our soil and overpowers our border guards and takes huge shipments of drugs back to Mexico that have been confiscated here...on OUR soil...and nary a peep?
I for one don't get that.

Uncle Fester (bravely posting anonymously) in gray, stuff deleted

Tom, Tom, Tom,.... I'll just respond to your comments in order one by one.
1) Fighting a war costs a lot of money. That money goes to our troops. I would rather our men and women be equipped with whatever they need to get the job done than to cut corners and sacrifice lives for the sake of a
balanced budget.

The salient point being that Bush started the war, not Iraq. One does not blame the victim because the mugging gets expensive.

2) I'm so sick of these Bush lied allegations you are espousing be specific here when exactly did he lie and what exactly was that lie? That is merely a baseless and ignorant allegation.

You know the thing about being hoist with one's own petard? Here are a few particularly stinky petards from the Bush camp and every one of them has proven to be a lie.

"The evidence indicates Iraq is reconstituting its nuclear weapons program..." Bush, Oct 7, 2002

"We believe [Saddam] has, in fact, reconstituted nuclear weapons..."
Chaney, March 16, 2003, on Meet the Press

"We learned that Iraq has trained al-Qaeda members in bomb-making and poisons and deadly gases... Alliance with terrorists could allow the Iraqi regime to attack America without leaving any fingerprints..." Bush, Oct 7, 2002

"We have discovered thorugh intelligence that Iraq has a growing fleet of manned and unmanned vehicles that could be used to disperse chemical or biological weapons across broad areas. We are concerned that Iraq is exploring ways of using these UAVs for missions targeting the United States..." Bush, Oct 7, 2002

"We have seen intelligence over many months that they have chemical and biological weapons, and that they have dispersed them and that they're weaponized and that, in at least one case, the command and control arrangements have been established..." Bush, Feb 8, radio address

"Yes, we found a biological laboratory in Iraq which the UN prohibited..." Bush, June 1, 2003

There are hundreds more.

3) Bush sacrificed the lives of these "kids"? Are you kidding? Bush didn't kill anyone did he.

Bush is directly responsible for the deaths of 4,116 American soldiers in Iraq.

The only ones who have killed our men and women who volounteered to fight this just war is the enemy. Not Bush. Bush is no more responsible for these soldiers sacrifice than any republican or democrat that voted for the war. But you would have us believe that the enemy is Bush and not these islamic extremists blowing our guys up?

Wrong! Bush invaded Iraq, deposed Saddam, and embroiled the US in a sectarian civil war; Iraq didn't invade us, neither did they represent a significant threat.

4)I think our soldiers deserve more respect than for you to call them "kids" and if they are as you say and I agree some of our countries best and brightest what does that say that they obviously believe this war is worth winning?

Before you castigate me for calling a kid a kid, you might want to determine the average of the kids doing the dying in Iraq. The kids are undoubtedly America's best and brightest, but their sacrifices are shamefully wasted and grunts don't have a say in making policy decisions.

5)What then would you say we are fighting for in Iraq? How bout an independent and democratic self sustaining government that can operate as an allie.

LMAO! The last thing Bush wants is a democracy in Iraq because it would quickly become an Islamist theocracy.

6)"The buck stops where?" How bout the buck should stop with those individuals that put themselves in that position.

The buck stops with whomever makes policy decisions - Bush, et al.

7)Wrong again, WMDs were not the only reason we invaded Iraq.

"The Iraqi dictator must not be permitted to threaten America and the world with horrible poisons and diseases and gases and atomic weapons..." Bush, Oct 7, 2002 speech in Cincinnatti

At the time, both American and British intelligence had determined Iraq had neither WMDs nor means of delivery. Bush knowingly ignored his own intelligence sources in order to invade Iraq!

You will note that, unlike yourself, I take personal responsibility for my political opinions by signing my posts.