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TOPIC: AFA Elected officials, what to you look for?

RE:AFA Elected officials, what to you look for? 22 Jun 2008 22:08 #16

  • Martin Kenny
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Phil Armitage wrote:
I disagree, feedback in any shape or form (good or bad tone) is good stuff. One of the things the AFA is suffering from is getting input from the members. From what I see it is the same ole folks speaking up and setting the rules which may explain why the AFA is stagnant, which is a reflection of leadership. So which leader are you going to be? The same ole type of leader or someone that understands how to get feedback from the quite guy in the back of the room? I will let you ponder that for awhile. :)

Phil, That is the great thing about this country. We can agree to disagree. I stand by my decision to change gears like I did this morning.

To answer your question though....So which leader are you going to be? The same ole type of leader or someone that understands how to get feedback from the quite guy in the back of the room?.....

I am more than happy to hear anyone that has the ability to communicate his/her thoughts, concerns, gripes, etc as long as it is a civil, productive conversation/discussion. Will I stand by and let the guy in the back of the room take over a meeting by going off course and attempting to make it about personalities and all about personal opinions on how a man should run his business? No I will not. If it's about the AFA and is constructive. I've got all day to discuss it and will do so as long as it is a productive dialog.

I hope that answers your question. If not ask another direct one and I will be happy to answer for you.
Regards. Martin Kenny AFA #178
If you feel shoeing horses is best served by how well you can work in the forge, you are missing the point!

It is how well you shoe a horse, so he performs at his best advantage, IN SPITE of his personal issues. Forge work is simply a tool that MAY be...
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RE:AFA Elected officials, what to you look for? 22 Jun 2008 22:39 #17

Martin I said the quite guy in the back of the room not an extrovert's that will take over, they sit in the front. How about the quite guy that cannot articulate by your definition of a civil discussion. What if he drools chew as he starts to talk. I get more stains on my shirt that way, hate it when someone asks how I'm doing while I'm applying my artistic ability and enjoying the day with a good chew.

I'm starting to get the impression you don't get it. "IT"
Phil Armitage, CF
AFA member 7480

"Anyone who proposes to do good must not expect people to roll stones out of his way, but must accept his lot calmly if they even roll a few more upon it." Albert Schweitzer
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RE:AFA Elected officials, what to you look for? 22 Jun 2008 23:16 #18

  • Jaye Perry
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Martin Kenny......” I agree. Let me give you an example. There was an ad in the last issue that was placed by Texas A&M for a farrier position. By the time the AFA members received that issue A&M was already interviewing for the position. First off, that was a disservice to the readers, but even more importantly; it was a disservice to A&M. I am assuming they paid for that ad, and received no tangible results for it. .....


You are DEAD WRONG on this!!!

:mad:
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RE:AFA Elected officials, what to you look for? 22 Jun 2008 23:29 #19

Martin,

I have watched this conversation and feel that there are a few things missing from the leadership list.

A true leader is able to listen to and take criticism. The may not like it or even agree with it, but they have to be man enough to take it and learn from it.

A true leader needs to know and embody the term, “Fix the problem, not the blame.” True leaders do not seek out and blame people from the problems that they are working to correct, they work with the entire team to fix the problem and help the team grow stronger. They coach and cajole.

True leaders always criticize and critique in private, and praise in public. Leadership is not a contest where you vilify, destroy or defeat your opponents to win. It is a collegial effort where the leader actively works to strengthen every member of the team no matter how week they are.

A true leader not only understands what the word compassion means they use it as a cornerstone in their leadership style.

Finally and I think most importantly, leaders know how to say they have made mistakes and how to apologize to those they have injured by their actions.

I want to see guys that exhibit all of these traits and more in their every day life.
Ronald E. Kramedjian, RJF

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"What is popular is not always right; what is right is not always popular." Unknown

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RE:AFA Elected officials, what to you look for? 22 Jun 2008 23:33 #20

  • Rick Burten
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Martin Kenny wrote:
I really feel that the way the AFA is set up (see most current bylaws) one must look not at what an individual proposes to DO, but on if the individual is capable of pulling a team together and making things happen. The way the bylaws are set up, the BoD dictates what will be done, the Executive committee is charged with pulling off the directives of the BoD.

Do you truly believe that that is what is happening?
I personally don't have any agendas for the AFA at all.

Then you're the first one in recent memory to be that way.
I do feel that we (the AFA) need to step back and decide what we want to become. Develop a list of 3 or 4 things and be specific on how we feel we can determine that we have achieved those goals.

Sounds like you want "someone" to at last create and implement a Strategic Plan. If so, that's great! Question is, how would you go about accomplishing this?
The shotgun approach the AFA has always used has produced very few tangible results.

"Say it ain't so, Joe" ("Eight Men Out")
Example: "Educate the horse owning public...." While there has been some strides that direction lately, considering that has been a goal for 35 years and still the vast majority of horse owners don't really know about us, says that the approach to achieve that goal was not established and or followed through.

What are your priorities with regard to educating the public? How, at this juncture, would you propose going about it?
Now if we are to appear as professionals, then our voice Professional Farrier magazine needs to project that image.

What steps should be taken to accomplish this goal?

What is your position regarding AFA members that are contributing articles and advertising(but primarily, articles) to other magazines first when their own magazine is in such need of articles and support?
I for one feel this is issue #1, but the BoD may see differently. I can not and will not speak for that wing of the AFA.

Have you, as of now, spoken with any BOD representatives in order to get a handle on what, if any, their priorities are and how they are going about implementing them?
So in closing for now. The items ahead of this post are wonderful. Let’s keep up the idea here of helping establish how our LEADERSHIP will form in the future. After all, that is what this thread was designed to do.

Martin Kenny AFA #178

Martin,

I wish you nothing but success in your election campaign.

Over the coming months, it will be interesting and noteworthy to see how you address the issues that conflict the AFA.
Rick Burten PF

In the immortal words of Ron White: "But let me tell you something, folks: You can't fix S-tupid. There's not a pill you can take; there's not a class you can go to. S-tupid is forever."
."


Je pense donc je suis
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RE:AFA Elected officials, what to you look for? 22 Jun 2008 23:39 #21

  • Martin Kenny
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Phil Armitage wrote:
Martin I said the quite guy in the back of the room not an extrovert's that will take over, they sit in the front. How about the quite guy that cannot articulate by your definition of a civil discussion. What if he drools chew as he starts to talk. I get more stains on my shirt that way, it when someone asks how I'm doing while I'm applying my artistic ability and enjoying the day with a good chew.

I'm starting to get the impression you don't get it. "IT"

Actually I have always been pretty good at getting people engaged. When I became President of PA Guild of Professional Horseshoers in the 80's we had very little input and the Guild was very stagnant.
When I took office we had about $100 in the till. When I left PA the Guild till had over $2,000 in the till and we had MORE than doubled in size and (more importantly) more than quadrupled in participation.

We had been putting on our competition at the Pa Gold Cup show at Devon and they had been giving us $1,000 toward awards etc. They felt it would be a draw for the show I guess. Anyhow, (before I was president) Ron Palmer was president and he asked me to head up the competition and try to build it up as the Gold Cup said they would only sponsor us one more year unless we gave them a bigger bang for their buck. So I made a committee (Dean Pearson became my first hand man) and we went to work. Long story short, we had more than 25 competitors from Europe and all over the US. We had the Philadelphia "PM Magazine" crew there, we had so much activity that the Gold Cup came to me and said (you are going to love this) "You took up too much room, we don't want you back." Hey, you win some, you loose some. BUT the point is this, I am pretty darned good at pulling people together and getting them to roll up their sleeves and get things done.

I won't bore you, but will give you one more example. The PA Guild had been providing the farriers needed for the (now defunct) Chesterland 3-day Event. (became the Fair Hill 3-Day event) The event payed the Guild and we coerced people to provide services for it. I organized for the farriers with some time under their belts to work it and have the members that were new into shoeing come spend the 1/2 day with the elders during the time they put in for the Guild (We rotated people in and out so no one had to spend the entire day if they did not want to). It was a great time for sharing, practicing in the fire making shoes and the side benefit was that the elder farriers wanted to serve instead of resisting and they developed a relationship with the younger members along with PRIDE in their organization. Many even signed up for a full day shift at the event, they liked it so much. (we did this for a number of years)

We had a member that was a certified mentally retarded individual. I was able to get him to have enough self confidence to come to EVERY meeting, share with us and became a pretty good hand in the fire; thanks to being able to get guys like Bob Skradzio and Joe Brandau to willingly take the time to understand this guy and help him improve. When I left PA, he was the first one at a meeting and the last to leave.

After I spoke at the 2006 IHCS, I received numerous calls from farriers all over the country. From Amish in Wisconsin, to Race Track shoers in West Va. We spent an enormous amount of time on the phone and those guys grew and have implemented the things I have taught them and they have had tremendous growth in their businesses. They tell me that they had called numerous other speakers over the years and have never received the time of day from any other's before I helped them. I must admit I have had the same lack of response from farriers I have reached out too.

About 2 years ago, I invited 8 groups of ten farriers and vets (all easily recognized if you knew their names and at least one that had responded to my thread on this forum and all AFA members.) and asked them to critique work I had put on a password protected website. I told them that if they would like to participate I would issue each one a code to identify them and no one else would know who they were. I told them I would only use their direct comments if they gave me specific permisison to do so. My goal was to put together an article on how a group of people look at the same photos and see what happens. I had SIX people out of 80 agree to participate, and of those SIX; FOUR actually followed through.

So you see, I have no problem attempting to pull people together for a common goal. It is not always possible, but one can not say QUIT just because individuals are not willing to come along for the ride.

So to answer your question; hopefully better this time than last, I have no problem trying to pull people together, no matter what their self confidence level is. Am I always successful? NO, but who is?

Regards, Martin Kenny AFA #178
If you feel shoeing horses is best served by how well you can work in the forge, you are missing the point!

It is how well you shoe a horse, so he performs at his best advantage, IN SPITE of his personal issues. Forge work is simply a tool that MAY be...
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RE:AFA Elected officials, what to you look for? 22 Jun 2008 23:40 #22

  • Martin Kenny
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Jaye Perry wrote:
You are WRONG on this!!!

:mad:

How so? Please explain.
If you feel shoeing horses is best served by how well you can work in the forge, you are missing the point!

It is how well you shoe a horse, so he performs at his best advantage, IN SPITE of his personal issues. Forge work is simply a tool that MAY be...
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RE:AFA Elected officials, what to you look for? 22 Jun 2008 23:42 #23

  • Martin Kenny
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Ronald E. Kramedjian wrote:
Martin,

I have watched this conversation and feel that there are a few things missing from the leadership list.

A true leader is able to listen to and take criticism. The may not like it or even agree with it, but they have to be man enough to take it and learn from it.

A true leader needs to know and embody the term, “Fix the problem, not the blame.” True leaders do not seek out and blame people from the problems that they are working to correct, they work with the entire team to fix the problem and help the team grow stronger. They coach and cajole.

True leaders always criticize and critique in private, and praise in public. Leadership is not a contest where you vilify, destroy or defeat your opponents to win. It is a collegial effort where the leader actively works to strengthen every member of the team no matter how week they are.

A true leader not only understands what the word compassion means they use it as a cornerstone in their leadership style.

Finally and I think most importantly, leaders know how to say they have made mistakes and how to apologize to those they have injured by their actions.

I want to see guys that exhibit all of these traits and more in their every day life.

Ron, GREAT POINTS. Thanks for jumping in here
Martin
If you feel shoeing horses is best served by how well you can work in the forge, you are missing the point!

It is how well you shoe a horse, so he performs at his best advantage, IN SPITE of his personal issues. Forge work is simply a tool that MAY be...
The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:AFA Elected officials, what to you look for? 23 Jun 2008 00:08 #24

  • Jaye Perry
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Martin Kenny wrote:
How so? Please explain.


I have to write a Formal reccomendation letter for the CFJ, AFA member who has been, IMO, short listed for the job. I have already submitted a personal letter of recommendation to some of my friends and assiociates at A &M.
A well informed leader will ya Be?:rolleyes::rolleyes::eek:

You have a pulse on the membership, the little guy, YEAH Martin!!!!
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RE:AFA Elected officials, what to you look for? 23 Jun 2008 00:27 #25

  • BS-Horseshoeing
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Jaye Perry wrote:
I have to write a Formal reccomendation letter for the CFJ, AFA member who has been, IMO, short listed for the job. I have already submitted a personal letter of recommendation to some of my friends and assiociates at A &M.
A well informed leader will ya Be?:rolleyes::rolleyes::eek:

You have a pulse on the membership, the little guy, YEAH Martin!!!!

Jaye, question is, "Did this individual learn of the job specifically from the AFA magazine or some other venue?" Just cause he's a member doesn't mean he got the info from the AFA mag. Just trying to clarify that to be fair.

Martin, I think it has been mentioned a couple of times, but one of the things a leader really needs is the time to commit to the job. That is one of the hardest things I see to accomplish. No matter how qualified, energetic, or enthused the guy is, is he willing to give the job the time it needs. That comes down to personal, business, and financial concerns that must be looked at to help make that decision. With out the time commitment, nothing else will help.
Ben Sturman
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Tough times never last, but tough people do!

Beware the lollipop of mediocrity, one lick and you will suck for ever!

Folks who think traditional farriery means perimeter fit don't know a heluva lot about shoeing. Tom Stovall,...
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RE:AFA Elected officials, what to you look for? 23 Jun 2008 00:45 #26

  • Martin Kenny
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Jaye Perry wrote:
I have to write a Formal reccomendation letter for the CFJ, AFA member who has been, IMO, short listed for the job. I have already submitted a personal letter of recommendation to some of my friends and assiociates at A &M.
A well informed leader will ya Be?:rolleyes::rolleyes::eek:

You have a pulse on the membership, the little guy, YEAH Martin!!!!

Well, I guess the joke is on you Jaye.

As Ben made proper note, the A&M position was not ONLY advertised in The Profession Farrier magazine.

I say the joke was on you, because I too had applied for the position from the AJF ad and had already been phone interviewed before the PF came out.

As for personal friends and associates, I did not need such recommendations as I have such ON STAFF myself at A&M. I am glad to know though that A&M have you opinion on who they should hire. I am certain it made their decision that much easier. LOL

The comment about the A&M ad was only made to underscore the lack of promptness of the PF magazine not to show who knows who or who may have applied (Note I kept that I had applied to myself until you forced me hand. Ain't Poker FUN???)
Martin
If you feel shoeing horses is best served by how well you can work in the forge, you are missing the point!

It is how well you shoe a horse, so he performs at his best advantage, IN SPITE of his personal issues. Forge work is simply a tool that MAY be...
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RE:AFA Elected officials, what to you look for? 23 Jun 2008 00:47 #27

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BS-Horseshoeing wrote:
Jaye, question is, "Did this individual learn of the job specifically from the AFA magazine or some other venue?" Just cause he's a member doesn't mean he got the info from the AFA mag. Just trying to clarify that to be fair.

Martin, I think it has been mentioned a couple of times, but one of the things a leader really needs is the time to commit to the job. That is one of the hardest things I see to accomplish. No matter how qualified, energetic, or enthused the guy is, is he willing to give the job the time it needs. That comes down to personal, business, and financial concerns that must be looked at to help make that decision. With out the time commitment, nothing else will help.

Ben, I agree fully and have done that for sure. Thanks for your input
Martin
If you feel shoeing horses is best served by how well you can work in the forge, you are missing the point!

It is how well you shoe a horse, so he performs at his best advantage, IN SPITE of his personal issues. Forge work is simply a tool that MAY be...
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RE:AFA Elected officials, what to you look for? 23 Jun 2008 01:14 #28

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Quote: from Martin
Originally Posted by Martin Kenny
I really feel that the way the AFA is set up (see most current bylaws) one must look not at what an individual proposes to DO, but on if the individual is capable of pulling a team together and making things happen. The way the bylaws are set up, the BoD dictates what will be done, the Executive committee is charged with pulling off the directives of the BoD.
*****************************************

From Rick Do you truly believe that that is what is happening?

Rick; I did not say it was happening, only that this is what the bylaws dictate. Martin
********************************************

Quote: from Martin
I personally don't have any agendas for the AFA at all.

From Rick Then you're the first one in recent memory to be that way.

Rick, I told you all I was different. I stand by that statement. Martin
***********************************************

Quote: from Martin
I do feel that we (the AFA) need to step back and decide what we want to become. Develop a list of 3 or 4 things and be specific on how we feel we can determine that we have achieved those goals.

From Rick Sounds like you want "someone" to at last create and implement a Strategic Plan. If so, that's great! Question is, how would you go about accomplishing this?

Rick; You are right, how can we move forward without such a plan? If given the charge to do so, I would assess who would be able to work together and build a team to begin that task. We did it in the 80’a but that was just before I moved and was no longer on BoD so don’t know what happened to it. Martin
************************************************

Quote: from Martin
Example: "Educate the horse owning public...." While there has been some strides that direction lately, considering that has been a goal for 35 years and still the vast majority of horse owners don't really know about us, says that the approach to achieve that goal was not established and or followed through.

From Rick What are your priorities with regard to educating the public? How, at this juncture, would you propose going about it?

Rick, we need to have website set up that would allow owners to look at various approaches to specific foot related conditions. We need to establish the thought process that there are many ways to get the same results on many foot problems. I would love to see a committee gather ideas from individuals that have working websites with information that educates the owners and possibly get permission to accumulate that input into one source. We would have to give credit and perhaps direct links to the websites we draw from, but there is a world of input already in place, we just would need to coordinate it into one location somehow. Martin
***************************************************

Quote: from Martin
Now if we are to appear as professionals, then our voice Professional Farrier magazine needs to project that image.

From Rick What steps should be taken to accomplish this goal?

Rick, I would like to see a committee that is made up of individuals with expertise in promotion and turn them loose to come up with a specific plan. I can think of several people that have been tremendously successful at promotion and could be a real asset.

From Rick What is your position regarding AFA members that are contributing articles and advertising(but primarily, articles) to other magazines first when their own magazine is in such need of articles and support?

Rick, I see NOTHING wrong with that. I personally had written to the PF and asked about writing an article for that publication and never received a response to that request. So I moved on and wrote for the AFJ. It’s a big world out there and the AFA does not own my publishing unless I choose to allow it. I feel that when I write, I want timely response to my request to be published and I also want the largest readership for what I write and at the moment that is not coming from the PF.
****************************************************

Quote: from Martin
I for one feel this is issue #1, but the BoD may see differently. I can not and will not speak for that wing of the AFA.

From Rick Have you, as of now, spoken with any BOD representatives in order to get a handle on what, if any, their priorities are and how they are going about implementing them?

Rick, I have not, remember my nomination just happened in the past couple weeks. Martin

Thanks for the chance to answer such great questions. Martin
If you feel shoeing horses is best served by how well you can work in the forge, you are missing the point!

It is how well you shoe a horse, so he performs at his best advantage, IN SPITE of his personal issues. Forge work is simply a tool that MAY be...
The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:AFA Elected officials, what to you look for? 23 Jun 2008 02:13 #29

I say the joke was on you, because I too had applied for the position from the AJF ad and had already been phone interviewed before the PF came out.

I can tell you now that the type of leader I want in the AFA, doesn't have the time to start a program and be the resident farrier at a major Equine Vet School.

The comment about the A&M ad was only made to underscore the lack of promptness of the PF magazine not to show who knows who or who may have applied (Note I kept that I had applied to myself until you forced me hand. Ain't Poker FUN???)
Martin

Is there something special about you that you feel somehow more important because you applied for the A&M job?

Quite frankly I thought about applying myself until I found out how much they were paying.

Showing your hand in poker is not the best way to win the game. You may win one or two hands, but most of the time you'll go away a loser if you start off showing your hand too early.
"Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects." Will Rogers

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBimQu6Pxxs
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RE:AFA Elected officials, what to you look for? 23 Jun 2008 10:12 #30

  • Martin Kenny
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Dave Purves RJF wrote:
I can tell you now that the type of leader I want in the AFA, doesn't have the time to start a program and be the resident farrier at a major Equine Vet School.


Is there something special about you that you feel somehow more important because you applied for the A&M job?

Quite frankly I thought about applying myself until I found out how much they were paying.

Showing your hand in poker is not the best way to win the game. You may win one or two hands, but most of the time you'll go away a loser if you start off showing your hand too early.

Well actually the job at A&M is a 40 hour a week position and that is less time than most working farriers put into their private practices in a week.


Again, that comment about A&M was made only to prove a point about timing of PF magazine when it was thrown out that I did not know what I was talking about on the timing of the PF ad and the A&M interview process. I never mentioned it until that was brought up by Jaye that he knew someone that had interviewed in an effort to prove the ad was timely. I did not mention it as I do not think it makes me special. So far I have not been offered the job and very well may not have it offered, so why would I think applying makes me special?


Well,as for pay scale; not all of us are interested in the same thing in this business. I used to be focused on the income level, but at this stage in my life, my focus has changed and though the job pays less than can be made in the private sector, that (pay scale) was not my #1 reason for applying.
Martin

Talk to poker players and just like farriers they all have different strategies. LOL
If you feel shoeing horses is best served by how well you can work in the forge, you are missing the point!

It is how well you shoe a horse, so he performs at his best advantage, IN SPITE of his personal issues. Forge work is simply a tool that MAY be...
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