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TOPIC: AFA Elected officials, what to you look for?

AFA Elected officials, what to you look for? 22 Jun 2008 12:35 #1

  • Martin Kenny
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What makes one a good ELECTED OFFICER of the AFA?

We just had a really fun day yesterday didn’t we guys? I waded through all the stuff that was posted in the thread I started before and believe or not, in amongst the numerous posts was some really good thoughts.

I have taken those thoughts and combined them below in hopes of us trying this exercise one more time.

Leave the crud on your computer, we don’t need to share it for all the world to see. Keep focused and lets try this one more time.

This is not just for me, but hopefully others that are running will glean from it as well. This thread is not meant to ask you to vote for me, it is simply a forum where by you can get out your desires. I may admit that if I had not shared my thoughts then a lot of that crud would have been avoided. But I thought you all would appreciate what I thought it meant to be an elected leader of the AFA. I must admit I never dreamed that my thoughts would be so controversial. But hey, I’m a big guy, I can take it!!

So below are the thoughts that came out of that day of rhetoric and some of them were really good. Thanks to those who participated in it in the way it was meant to be.
Martin Kenny AFA #178


#1 One may have all the abilities of a good farrier, but if he don't have the ability to lead and get things done, then what good is he in the office? I think what Martin wants us to look at is was it only for good farrier skills or popular name why one is placed in office, or is there good leadership skill involved?

22.5 yrs in the military has taught me that good leadership goes a long way. You may not have the skills to get every job done, but if you know how to direct you assets and get people to support you and do the job required of them, then the over all mission will be completed.

JMO
__________________
Mikel


#2 The AFA needs leaders who can delegate. (and then step back and let them do their job !Q)
If he/she happens to be a farrier so much better, but if he/she isn't then it is leadership quality we need.
The AFA has out grown the group of original farriers who started it. They knew this would happen if it was successful.
And if $ is a sign of success, then the AFA is a success.
It takes $ to run projects and produce material, and move folks across the country and exchange students over sea's etc.
It takes LEADERSHIP to see all this runs smoothly and GOOD COMMITTEE'S with dedicated members willing to work to over come the constant hurdles that pop up.

Danvers said it best when he listed names of volunteers whom many of us never heard of. But if it wasn't for these folks things would never get done.
These are the unsung HERO'S who keep the AFA going forward or keep it from falling backwards.

Give us, the membership an opportunity to make a solid decision when we vote.
I would to imagine just how many folks close their eyes and pick a name from the ballot card sent to them. I also can't imagine how many vote for someone they recognize the name from an article they read about them.
Many of us take voting seriously and want to put the best man for the job in the position needed.
You as a nominee have an opportunity to do just this.
OR you can sit back on your laurels like others have in the past and not communicate and still get voted in.

my 2 cents worth

Bruce Matthews AFA #1300


#3 If a couple of close associations with a sincere interest in the election process were to come together and split the expense then we could bring a few of the candidates to our areas and have a one on one with them.

I have had a similar conversation with Dick Fanguy and the expense was a consideration in his thoughts as well. (and well it should be ! )

Why do we keep asking for things to be free or always expect the AFA to pay all the expenses ?

I know someone will bring up the very high yearly due's we pay, but you have to realize the cost of doing business. To run the AFA is not cheap and like EVERYTHING ELSE in today’s world, costs for them keep rising.

I am not endorsing this nominee, I am merely laying some things on the table without any negativity.
This person is from the hip and looking you square in the eyes.
Kinda refreshing me thinks.

Ron K and Rick B. did the same thing and got beaten up for it.

Here is another candidate who is talking and looking you in the eyes. Voicing his opinions and explaining any mis-conceptions that may arise.

Lets not belittle, or abuse.
Ask good strong questions that are pertinent.
Stay focused and remember this person is but the first of others to come.


If we want others to step up to the plate and bring their particular expertise with them then don't shoot them in the foot the minute they come through the door.
If you want improvements, and a strong AFA with positive direction, then we need leaders.
We need folks who can delegate and work well with others.

This year many things have been implemented to make the wheels work better. Grease is getting introduced finally.
Folks ARE making efforts on all fronts to make the machine run better.

We need folks who will volunteer and help to carry some of the load.
It is so easy to sit on the fence and knock everyone and everything tried.
It is much harder to get off the fence and say "what can I do to help ?"
As Danvers pointed out, it is the persons behind the scene who are the real GLUE in making the AFA work.

"Ask not what the AFA can do for you, but what YOU can do for the AFA !"

Bruce Matthews AFA #1300


#4 The AFA has always had an "Identity Crisis".... one minute it looks in the mirror and wants to be the AAEP, then it looks again and wants to be the Worshipful Company of Farriers. The collective soul of the group must deal with this, not some "Leader". Laugh if you may......

Norman E. Foley CJF AFA #733


#5 Some of you have missed the point, big time. Martin didn't ask for any of us to judge him, his forging or shoeing skills, or political skills at all. But you sure all jumped right on that trying to throw him out before he got started. He asked the question:

"WHAT MAKES ONE A GOOD ELECTED OFFICER OF THE AFA?"

For which I'm pretty sure he was looking for what we thought the people we elected should have in the way of morals, leadership skills, people skills, and political skills. He did not ask you to judge his shoeing, his web page, or his ability to hold office. He was looking for what we thought we might like to see in a leader of the AFA.

Ben Sturman

Tough times never last, but tough people do!
-Bumper sticker I saw. (foot note, from Martin. I love this statement. Think about it as you go through your day!)



#6 AND I MUST SAY< MY FAVORITE AS THERE ARE SOME really GREAT THOUGHTS IN HERE…. Thanks Eric, you get that gold horseshoe for the day! Martin

Well what makes a good elected officer of the AFA? I guess someone who can make a difference.

What makes a difference?

When I go to a clinic and learn something different, whether I could use it or not it is enlightening. Free clinics, like ones I used to go to at Valley Farrier Supply, we would have incredible turn outs. There would be 30 or 40 people there, all would be enthused and everyone got a long. The host would have a raffle and everyone would get something to take home... guys would mingle around and trade stuff that they got and didn't like as much as something someone else had.... That made it fun, physically rewarding, mentally rewarding and gave me a feeling that I would come shop there because I owed it to them....

Point of the matter was you always got something out of the deal and that is a positive thing...

With the AFA, you really have to work hard to get something out of it... basically that is our job though.. it isn't for wussies... we have a hard job... we work hard, we get together, clinics and contests and we have fun....


So what would I like to see in an elected officer of the AFA? I would like to see someone that would make our association stronger, bring members together, open awareness of the public so certification would actually mean more than just personal pride... Would give members a sense of getting something back from the organization we pay dues to.

That is what I would like from an elected official.
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Eric DeSocio CF
If you feel shoeing horses is best served by how well you can work in the forge, you are missing the point!

It is how well you shoe a horse, so he performs at his best advantage, IN SPITE of his personal issues. Forge work is simply a tool that MAY be...
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RE:AFA Elected officials, what to you look for? 22 Jun 2008 13:49 #2

  • beslagsmed
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The ability to look at a problem, assess it, and know what to do or who to assign it to. A good leader never gives the answers to all the problems. The leader will guide and direct the followers to find many of the answers themselves. This way it will help to promote new ideas, helps develope leadership skills in those who have them but don't use them. If they can't come with the answers the leader will then direct them in the way they should go to solve the problem.

No matter if it is right or wrong, will accept responsiblity for his/her actions.

With out knowing many or most of the AFA membership somethings I guess I would have to judge a canidate on is: how does he run his business? what are his people skills? how is this person is standing with other farriers in his/her area?
Mikel Dawson, RJF

(Denmark)
What part of "NO" don't you understand!!

Caution: Watch for hoof in mouth disease!!!
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RE:AFA Elected officials, what to you look for? 22 Jun 2008 13:55 #3

  • Martin Kenny
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beslagsmed wrote:
The ability to look at a problem asses it and know what to do or who to assign it to. A good leader never gives the answers to all the problems. The leader will guide and direct the followers to find many of the answers themselves. This way it will help to promote new ideas, helps develope leadership skills in those who have them but don't use them. If they can't come with the answers the leader will then direct them in the way they should go to solve the problem.

No matter if it is right or wrong, will accept responsiblity for his/her actions.

With out knowing many or most of the AFA membership somethings I guess I would have to judge a canidate on is: how does he run his business? what are his people skills? how is this person is standing with other farriers in his/her area?


Now this is what I'm looking for in this thread. Thank you for a GREAT response. Martin
If you feel shoeing horses is best served by how well you can work in the forge, you are missing the point!

It is how well you shoe a horse, so he performs at his best advantage, IN SPITE of his personal issues. Forge work is simply a tool that MAY be...
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RE:AFA Elected officials, what to you look for? 22 Jun 2008 15:11 #4

  • Rick Burten
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Honesty, integrity, principles, ability to delegate authority while understanding that ultimately the responsibility lies with him/her. Ability not to micro-manage.
Gives others the credit and praise rather than being a "look at me/look at what I've done" person. Ability to take advise and wise counsel. Ability to recognize the abilities of others and to then work with those others and make the best use of their abilities/knowledge/skills/wisdom. Should have and know how to use, great communication skills. Must understand the parameters of the job description and then stay within them. Understands different personalities and knows how to blend them together for the common good.

I suppose, that can all be summed up in the following way. (Courtesy of William S. Frank):

"Visionary.

Good leaders create a vision, a picture of the future, of where they want to take their organizations. Leaders can improve both the quality and acceptance of the vision by partnering with their peers, executive team, key employees throughout the organization or outside consultants. To get the best vision you need lots of ideas, and people support what they help to create.

Inspirational.

Once a vision is established, great leaders can inspire everyone in the company to get onboard. Employees in great organizations are passionate about what they do. This inspiration extends to customers, investors, suppliers, boards of directors and all other stakeholders.

This doesn't mean good leaders have to be charismatic or great public speakers, though some are. Leaders may inspire by example or in low-key ways. Every word and action demonstrates their passion for the vision.

Strategic.

Strategic leaders are clear and directly face the strengths and weaknesses of their own organizations, as well as their external opportunities and threats. They think in terms of leverage, fishing where the big fish are and partnering to gain market advantage. While interested in one sale, they would rather create pipelines and strategic alliances that generate thousands, or hundreds of thousands, of sales.

Tactical.

Wired like businesspeople, good leaders are bottom-line oriented and extraordinarily committed to results. They thrive on facts, figures, numbers and data. If not numbers-oriented themselves, they surround themselves with strong financial talent.

Focused.

Once vision and mission (a brief, clear statement of the reasons for an organization's existence) are established, good leaders achieve what they set out to do before launching new initiatives. By contrast, poor leaders may have dozens of conflicting programs and priorities. Leaders with 20 priorities essentially have no priorities.

Persuasive.

Not necessarily salespeople, good leaders can bring others to their point of view using logic, reason, emotion and the force of their personalities. They motivate by persuasion rather than intimidation. The key here is the leader speaking from his or her heart.

Likeable.

Good leaders are people-centric. They may be scientists, engineers or technical experts by background, but they recognize interpersonal skills are paramount. They display high degrees of emotional intelligence, and thrive on finesse and likeability.

They want to be liked -- and they are. Again, the key is what's inside the leader. Likeability comes from the inside out.

Decisive.

Sometimes shooting from the hip, good leaders can make decisions quickly -- often with incomplete data. As Theodore Roosevelt said, "In any moment of decision, the best thing you can do is the right thing, the next best thing is the wrong thing, and the worst thing you can do is nothing."

Rarely is a leader able to get 100 percent of the information needed for a decision. Typically it is "60 percent and go" or "80 percent and go."

Ethical.

Good leaders are direct and straightforward. They set clear performance expectations and hold people accountable. This requires being direct and truthful, which can be difficult but -- more often than not -- is natural for the principle-based leader. Good leaders know it's hard to beat the truth.

Open to feedback.

Good leaders are open and dedicated to lifelong learning. They seek feedback about their performance through direct conversations and objective tools such as 360-degree reviews. Seeking continuous improvement in their companies, they also seek it for themselves."
Rick Burten PF

In the immortal words of Ron White: "But let me tell you something, folks: You can't fix S-tupid. There's not a pill you can take; there's not a class you can go to. S-tupid is forever."
."


Je pense donc je suis
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RE:AFA Elected officials, what to you look for? 22 Jun 2008 16:10 #5

beslagsmed wrote:
With out knowing many or most of the AFA membership somethings I guess I would have to judge a canidate on is: how does he run his business? what are his people skills? how is this person is standing with other farriers in his/her area?
Mikel,
Now your getting to the core....
Norman
Norman E. Foley CJF AFA #733
Make haste.... slowly.
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RE:AFA Elected officials, what to you look for? 22 Jun 2008 16:46 #6

  • BPethick
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What makes one a good ELECTED OFFICER of the AFA?

1. Someone who is well respected in their field.
So your opinion is respected and people listen to what you have to say.
That individual can get things done!

2. Someone who is well liked.
Usually this person has a great personality and people will do anything for them.

3. Honesty, Integrity...
Rick has done a great job summing the rest up.

If you are not this person or if the AFA membership does not think you are this person. Withdraw and save yourself and your family a lot of aggravation.
Bob Pethick CJF AFA #1340
This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

Only those who have the patience to do things perfectly will acquire the skill to do difficult things easily...
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RE:AFA Elected officials, what to you look for? 22 Jun 2008 17:54 #7

  • vthorseshoe
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Martin, You have gotten the best answers available to your question.
Everyone covered it from every angle and were precise .

Now I would like to pose 2 questions .. for others to answer including nominee's.

When all info available is layed on the table, HOW DO WE, the voters go about chooseing and making a sensible educated decision on whom we vote for.
What can the candidates do to give us every opportunity to make as best a decision as we can.

Also, one other note. Mikel for one didn't get his ballot for what seemed like an eternity, during last elections.
I know there were others.
Will this be corrected so due's paying members over sea';s and in other countries can vote on time ?

my 2 cents worth ;)
"you may not like what I say" !
-but-
"you'll never have any doubts where I stand
quote Cindy Matthews 1948-2006


I thought my life had come to a close with Cindy's passing, but there is life after death Thankyou Sharon !

Bruce Matthews
Southeast...
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RE:AFA Elected officials, what to you look for? 22 Jun 2008 19:08 #8

  • Rick Burten
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vthorseshoe wrote:
Now I would like to pose 2 questions .. for others to answer including nominee's.

When all info available is layed on the table, HOW DO WE, the voters go about chooseing and making a sensible educated decision on whom we vote for.

"eenie, meanie, miney, mo....." Just kidding. I try to put the information I have in perspective and then make a choice. It is often easier to do when you have met the candidate(s) personally.
What can the candidates do to give us every opportunity to make as best a decision as we can.

Communicate. And, be themselves. Nothing worse than voting for someone because of "A,B, and C and then finding out that in reality, that person is and does X,Y and Z.

Of course, we have numerous examples of how a lack of communication, and being one of the "good ole' boys", has well served some candidates in getting elected.

And let me add this. When Craig ran for President, I was, for many reasons, dead set against him. I didn't vote for him. As it turns out, I think that by his second term, Craig showed us, me especially, that he was indeed the right man, at the right time, for the job. And I told him just that.

So, I guess that even with a great deal of information available to base a decision on, one can still form the wrong impression and later be proven the error of his/her voting decision(s).
my 2 cents worth ;)

Mine too. :)
Rick Burten PF

In the immortal words of Ron White: "But let me tell you something, folks: You can't fix S-tupid. There's not a pill you can take; there's not a class you can go to. S-tupid is forever."
."


Je pense donc je suis
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RE:AFA Elected officials, what to you look for? 22 Jun 2008 19:14 #9

  • Martin Kenny
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BPethick wrote:
What makes one a good ELECTED OFFICER of the AFA?

1. Someone who is well respected in their field.
So your opinion is respected and people listen to what you have to say.
That individual can get things done!

2. Someone who is well liked.
Usually this person has a great personality and people will do anything for them.

3. Honesty, Integrity...
Rick has done a great job summing the rest up.

If you are not this person or if the AFA membership does not think you are this person. Withdraw and save yourself and your family a lot of aggravation.



The input today was great. I would say that now we have something to work with. I have to agree with all that was shared on this thread.

Rick your post was superb. Thanks.

Bob,
You have a point for sure, but one must be careful not to jump to conclusions about how the AFA at large reacts to an individual by what is shared on a forum. By it’s very nature, a Forum such as this, brings out things in people that they probably would not think of (or share) in person. It is kind of like a pack mentality on Forum’s where one person says something and its just too easy to jump on the prey.
So I certainly take your cautions in the manner they were intended (positive not negative) I feel that time will tell how the at large community feels. I would never give a small group of people the power to determine what is best for the AFA.
When you look at the number of hits on the original thread, it was 869 hits, 47 replies and only 8 different people jumping in with half of those with their hackles up. (Note to Rick, see I must be a leader potential, I love numbers. LOL)
So I say MOVE FORWARD.
I do appreciate your concern though.
Regards, Martin
If you feel shoeing horses is best served by how well you can work in the forge, you are missing the point!

It is how well you shoe a horse, so he performs at his best advantage, IN SPITE of his personal issues. Forge work is simply a tool that MAY be...
The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:AFA Elected officials, what to you look for? 22 Jun 2008 20:39 #10

My dad always said a good leader is also a good follower. Took me a long time to figure out what he meant by that, at 48 years old I think I'm starting to understand what he means.
Phil Armitage, CF
AFA member 7480

"Anyone who proposes to do good must not expect people to roll stones out of his way, but must accept his lot calmly if they even roll a few more upon it." Albert Schweitzer
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RE:AFA Elected officials, what to you look for? 22 Jun 2008 20:48 #11

Martin, I was a little disappointed that you requested to close the original thread. I thought you had gathered a very wide range of input and if you studied leadership this is what you want. While I was in the military in a supervisor role I had to take leadership courses. One of the things taught was the differences in people and how to gather input no matter how it came. As I said in the other thread conflict does not build character it reveals it. Closing a thread when you start to hear things you do not want to hear is not a good sign.
Phil Armitage, CF
AFA member 7480

"Anyone who proposes to do good must not expect people to roll stones out of his way, but must accept his lot calmly if they even roll a few more upon it." Albert Schweitzer
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RE:AFA Elected officials, what to you look for? 22 Jun 2008 21:27 #12

  • Martin Kenny
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Phil Armitage wrote:
Martin, I was a little disappointed that you requested to close the original thread. I thought you had gathered a very wide range of input and if you studied leadership this is what you want. While I was in the military in a supervisor role I had to take leadership courses. One of the things taught was the differences in people and how to gather input no matter how it came. As I said in the other thread conflict does not build character it reveals it. Closing a thread when you start to hear things you do not want to hear is not a good sign.

Phil, I closed it not because I was hearing things I did not want to hear, but because we needed to get a grip and change the tone. If you study this thread (which I started at same time as closing the other one) you would have to admit the resulting change in tone confirms that move (closing last thread) was the correct one to make.
If you feel shoeing horses is best served by how well you can work in the forge, you are missing the point!

It is how well you shoe a horse, so he performs at his best advantage, IN SPITE of his personal issues. Forge work is simply a tool that MAY be...
The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:AFA Elected officials, what to you look for? 22 Jun 2008 21:36 #13

Martin Kenny wrote:
Phil, I closed it not because I was hearing things I did not want to hear, but because we needed to get a grip and change the tone. If you study this thread (which I started at same time as closing the other one) you would have to admit the resulting change in tone confirms that move (closing last thread) was the correct one to make.

I disagree, feedback in any shape or form (good or bad tone) is good stuff. One of the things the AFA is suffering from is getting input from the members. From what I see it is the same ole folks speaking up and setting the rules which may explain why the AFA is stagnant, which is a reflection of leadership. So which leader are you going to be? The same ole type of leader or someone that understands how to get feedback from the quite guy in the back of the room? I will let you ponder that for awhile. :)
Phil Armitage, CF
AFA member 7480

"Anyone who proposes to do good must not expect people to roll stones out of his way, but must accept his lot calmly if they even roll a few more upon it." Albert Schweitzer
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RE:AFA Elected officials, what to you look for? 22 Jun 2008 21:56 #14

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vthorseshoe wrote:
Martin, You have gotten the best answers available to your question.
Everyone covered it from every angle and were precise .

Now I would like to pose 2 questions .. for others to answer including nominee's.

When all info available is layed on the table, HOW DO WE, the voters go about chooseing and making a sensible educated decision on whom we vote for.
What can the candidates do to give us every opportunity to make as best a decision as we can.

Also, one other note. Mikel for one didn't get his ballot for what seemed like an eternity, during last elections.
I know there were others.
Will this be corrected so due's paying members over sea';s and in other countries can vote on time ?

my 2 cents worth ;)


First off, I have no idea about late ballots and have no input at this point. Remember I am only a grunt like everyone else at this point. I would direct you to Don Gustafson on that one.

I think that if the candidates can feel comfortable about using forum's such as this without the fear of posters running off course; it could be a wonderful way to get to know how the nominees think. It gives the opportunity to think about the answer before posting what he/she thinks. Many times if given an opportunity to consider the question at hand, the answer becomes clear. Certainly a leader needs to be able to think on his feet too, but for the most part, with an organization such as this, that is not as often as having the opportunity to think, research and think again before deciding what is the best path. I really feel that by answering too quickly gets us into way too much trouble that could have been avoided. We used to have that problem in the old BoD meetings, when the agenda and reports were handed to us as we entered the room. I used to scream about that when I was on that Board and in time it did improve. It's simply not fair to expect decisions to be made under such circumstances in the BoD meetings, Executive meetings, or even here.

I know many people do better with one on one direct contact and that is fine, but with a nominee running for a position that will cost him/her time away from family and business and ultimately money out of pocket for misc. travel, office supplies etc. it is unreasonable to expect the nominee to foot travel expenses because the membership desires (however justified) to meet him/her face to face.

I feel that if there is a desire to have that contact, the individual regional organization should figure out how to cover the travel expenses. Perhaps a clinic could be set up in conjunction to offset travel costs. I can not speak for other's but I can assure you that I would be all too happy to provide a clinic service in exchange for the travel begin defrayed by the hosts organization. This may also provide comfort for those individuals that feel there is a need to understand the way the candidate addresses horse shoeing as well. You know my feelings on that issue, but those are just my feelings and I recognize that other's feel different than I do and there is nothing wrong with that. It's not about how I feel; it's about the good of the AFA. What ever that means!

Remember no other national elections that I can think of (but am prepared to say I am wrong if one is brought to my attention) expects the candidate to pay for his expenses out of pocket. (Ever hear of the checkoff on the IRS 1040 and 1040A form that provides $$$ for that type of expense?)

I hope this answers your specific questions. If not let me know and I will provide what you desire. I am also posting further input following this answer to your post.
Regards, and thank you for your input. Martin Kenny AFA #178
If you feel shoeing horses is best served by how well you can work in the forge, you are missing the point!

It is how well you shoe a horse, so he performs at his best advantage, IN SPITE of his personal issues. Forge work is simply a tool that MAY be...
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RE:AFA Elected officials, what to you look for? 22 Jun 2008 21:58 #15

  • Martin Kenny
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Just some thoughts I have and may generate (I expect it will and should) more dialog.

I really feel that the way the AFA is set up (see most current bylaws) one must look not at what an individual proposes to DO, but on if the individual is capable of pulling a team together and making things happen. The way the bylaws are set up, the BoD dictates what will be done, the Executive committee is charged with pulling off the directives of the BoD.

I personally don't have any agendas for the AFA at all. I do feel that we (the AFA) need to step back and decide what we want to become. Develop a list of 3 or 4 things and be specific on how we feel we can determine that we have achieved those goals. Once we have proved we are approaching success of those goals (via a written set of markers that says we are approaching that success) then and only then can we move forward to more goals.

The shotgun approach the AFA has always used has produced very few tangible results.
Example: "Educate the horse owning public...." While there has been some strides that direction lately, considering that has been a goal for 35 years and still the vast majority of horse owners don't really know about us, says that the approach to achieve that goal was not established and or followed through.

The members tell me over and over again. “Heck we don’t even have a publication we can count on receiving in a timely manner.” I agree. Let me give you an example. There was an ad in the last issue that was placed by Texas A&M for a farrier position. By the time the AFA members received that issue A&M was already interviewing for the position. First off, that was a disservice to the readers, but even more importantly; it was a disservice to A&M. I am assuming they paid for that ad, and received no tangible results for it. Now if we are to appear as professionals, then our voice Professional Farrier magazine needs to project that image. I for one feel this is issue #1, but the BoD may see differently. I can not and will not speak for that wing of the AFA.

So in closing for now. The items ahead of this post are wonderful. Let’s keep up the idea here of helping establish how our LEADERSHIP will form in the future. After all, that is what this thread was designed to do.

Martin Kenny AFA #178
If you feel shoeing horses is best served by how well you can work in the forge, you are missing the point!

It is how well you shoe a horse, so he performs at his best advantage, IN SPITE of his personal issues. Forge work is simply a tool that MAY be...
The administrator has disabled public write access.

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