Phil Armitage wrote:
Of course I'm sure! You better go outside and change the shoe you have hanging at the farm now. I'm sure somebody on here can type the whole story.

Bullwinkle, You seem to have a real problem with this issue. WOuld it improve you shoeing or business any if he changed his logo? You seem to have to much time on your hands if all you have to do is worry about somebodys logo. Maybe you need to put yours on a few more business cards so you can pick up a few more clients and have less time to worry about petty stuff.

Bryan McElwee in gray

Bullwinkle, You seem to have a real problem with this issue. WOuld it improve you shoeing or business any if he changed his logo? You seem to have to much time on your hands if all you have to do is worry about somebodys logo.

Bryan, I'm not from New Zealand, and I don't worry overmuch about folks' logos, but I'll certainly confess to being inordinately proud of my few accomplishments in the world of farriery. Of those accomplishments, the one of 'em I'm most proud of involved fooling the testers in 1983 to the point that all of 'em gave me a passing grade on the AFA CJF test. As I recall, the highest grade on every segment of the test. Stuff comes hard for me: I don't have a helluva lot of talent, but I forged everything I nailed on except aluminums and race plates for more'n two years, I studied my butt off, so the test wasn't all that difficult at the time.

It's still big deal to me and I'm damn proud I passed the test!.

Please understand that I'm not mad at anyone - but I can't help but feel a great deal of contempt tempered with a little pity for anyone who is so envious of folks who've managed to pass a test that they find it necessary to defend their blantant ripoff of the AFA's CJF logo with patently transparent excuses and digressive corporate nonsense - but hey, I'm trying to sift through their rhetoric and find a happy place.

I can't.

To my notion, there simply ain't no excuse for taking a logo, making a few changes, then calling it your own. Ron can deny it with his dying breath, but the fat lady in the third row knows better. As I see it, anybody who'd do as he's done has all the pride of a body louse and is ethically challenged.

Maybe you need to put yours on a few more business cards so you can pick up a few more clients and have less time to worry about petty stuff.

You, perhaps more than many others, should appreciate my position. In my 66 years on the planet, I've never have worn a buckle I didn't win myself - and I wear a buckle every day. Maybe I'm old fashioned, but we all have to look somebody in the mirror in the morning when we shave and I don't have any trouble doing do.

Mr. Tom,
My immense respect for you just grew. Ride hard, shoot straight, speak the truthand own your mistakes... should be simple... for you it is.
Jason

Mr. Stovall, Im certainly not trying to defend Ron on his choice of logo's. It is blatantly obvious where that logo came from if Ron wants to admit it or not. I can see where it is insulting to the guys who work thier butts off to achieve this level of certification. What I dont see is why bullwinkel gets so bent out shape over it when he doesnt even bother to sign his name or list his certification. When you put compare it to the buckle issue I can definatily understand where your coming from. I wear mine everyday with pride knowing its something I earned from hard work and dedication the same way you take pride in having CJF after your name.

Bryan McElwee wrote:
Bryan,EXACTLY!!!

OK, I'll come in on the other side. I've got a little age on Tom, but it took me until 1986 (two trys) to get my CJF and as a part time shoer at that time, I was damned proud of it. The examiner was Jack Miller and believe me, if my work was up to Jack's standards, it was good.

That said, there are only a few items that most of us try to create a logo from and shoes and anvils are probably the most common. My logo is much like Ron's except for the lettering and although I am entitled to use the AFA Journeyman logo and have been so entitled for over 20 years, I wasn't even thinking about it when I designed mine. Until someone shows me where Ron ever represented himself as a CJF, I'm willing to accept that he never intended his logo to imply that he was a CJF.

Most of our logos are probably similar to some one else's.








a

Come on now, you guys need to leave Ron alone, the poor guy is having alot of trouble keeping shoes on, he doesn't need to be thinking about his logo, he needs to be thinking about how to keep a 00 shoe on without using SB6 nails.

Let the guy have his logo, his attitude, and character are not in question, they were questioned long ago, and I think he got the answer wrong.

I vote for leaving him alone, with his Knock off CFJ logo, and let him try and keep from loosing so many shoes.

Dave

Dave Purves RJF wrote:
Hey, if you want to discuss helping Ron with keeping shoes on start a new thread. This one is about his logo. You hardly get on here anymore and when you finaly do you screw things up. Get with the program.

It's called having a book that is full and overflowing.

Jaye Perry wrote:
Very good Jaye, you and Dave deserve another cookie, keep up the good work boys. :rolleyes:

What I find so interesting at times is how much human behavior mirrors behavior from the animal world. In a hound kennel when two hounds get in a fight it is not at all unusual for the rest of the pack to tear into the first one injured. Often unless the kennelsman steps in they will kill that hound. The hound killed is not always the weakest, and it is all too often one that is a good hunting hound.

What can be easily taken as proof that there is little or no substance to the current round of accuse and attack is something simple on its own merits. If my logo design is so offensively a patent rip off and is so indistinguishable from the AFA Journeyman logo as is alleged by these oh so mortally offended individuals then perhaps they can find a explanation that everyone will buy into that will explain why it has taken them 15 months to notice? I started using my logo as my avatar the day after I got home from the Albuquerque convention and have not changed it since.

Like hounds, one made an unfounded accusation causing an injury. Like hounds the others with their own agenda and too much aggression unthinkingly have piled on. Tis a shame, because until farriers learn to act like mature professionals they will continue to be treated like dogs.

Adue

Ronald E. Kramedjian wrote:
Yea, exactly. This is why I had a problem with Bob's avatar. See he is trying to fly under the radar so the Kennelsman won't shoot him. That puts the rest of us dogs at risk. Woof, woof.

Relax, Ron it is not a big deal.

"The smaller the issue at hand, the larger the fight." The Political forum was never meant to be used (because it is the only forum where I allow the "gloves to come off") as a place to carry on personal vendettas concerning such items as their logo, avatar, etc.... I was hoping that it would quickly run its course and fade, but instead those of you who have participated in this mindless altercation have done nothing more than confirm the suspisions of thousand who read these forums every day, that you enjoy the "bloodsport" simply because you can. You've brought the whole profession down a few notches. I'm disgusted. And so are the hundreds of people who've sent me letters asking why you involve yourselves in such useless drivel which has no value at all. If you read the letters I receive, you'd be ashamed of yourselves.

Keep this forum focused on Politics, not personal issues. If you can't manage to do that, I'll take the whole Political forum and put it in the round file.

Baron