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TOPIC: Ron K Logo

RE:Ron K Logo 16 Jun 2008 01:00 #31

  • ray steele
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BPethick wrote:
Jim,

The time you spent working your butt off to pass the test is why you shoe horses as well as you do.

Ron's use of a logo that is similar to the CJF logo is not going to improve his work to anywhere near the quality you have achieved.

Bob Pethick,
while you may be correct in this assertation,you have no way to quantify it. unless you have observed Ron's work!

If an individual needs to use a similar logo to feel good about ones work... who cares? :D

Conversly, if work , by a AFA member or non member,can be shown to be similar to a AFA CJ,or CJF,should one then also say "who cares"

Regards

Ray Steele
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RE:Ron K Logo 16 Jun 2008 01:33 #32

  • BPethick
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ray steele wrote:
while you may be correct in this assertation,you have no way to quantify it. unless you have observed Ron's work!

Conversly, if work , by a AFA member or non member,can be shown to be similar to a AFA CJ,or CJF,should one then also say "who cares"

Regards

Ray Steele

I was making reference to the amount of work it took to pass the CJF and education gained, compared to simply using a similar logo.

I was not comparing anyone's shoeing...
Bob Pethick CJF AFA #1340
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Only those who have the patience to do things perfectly will acquire the skill to do difficult things easily...
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RE:Ron K Logo 16 Jun 2008 01:58 #33

  • JimBondra
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BPethick
If an individual needs to use a similar logo to feel good about ones work... who cares?

Bob,
I just don't like it when somebody urinates down my back and tells me it's raining.
Jim
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RE:Ron K Logo 16 Jun 2008 02:00 #34

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BPethick wrote:
I was making reference to the amount of work it took to pass the CJF and education gained, compared to simply using a similar logo.

I was not comparing anyone's shoeing...

Bob,

Thanks for the clarification.

Regards

Ray Steele
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RE:Ron K Logo 16 Jun 2008 02:21 #35

Jim,
It could be worse.... I know 2 farriers who were awarded their CJF's in the 80's without ever taking the practical. A mix up in paperwork during the move from Albuquerque to Lexington was the most likely cause. One farrier admitted it, but never bothered to correct it. His defense was that.. "I don't use it in my advertising.", but it was in the AFA Directory every year. The other never admitted to it and added it to his advertising. I was burned as I worked very hard to do my CJF. An older, wiser farrier who also earned his CJF, told me.... "If those guys can sleep with it, that's their problem and a real problem it is. Take pride in what you do and don't worry about them." I follow that advice and don't let it bother me.
Norman E. Foley CJF AFA #733
Make haste.... slowly.
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RE:Ron K Logo 16 Jun 2008 03:09 #36

I have a problem with Bob's avatar. Trying to give people the impression that he is a puppy dog. :D
Phil Armitage, CF
AFA member 7480

"Anyone who proposes to do good must not expect people to roll stones out of his way, but must accept his lot calmly if they even roll a few more upon it." Albert Schweitzer
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RE:Ron K Logo 16 Jun 2008 03:21 #37

  • BS-Horseshoeing
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If/when the AFA site get's back up, Eric D. had a discussion with Danvers
about this very thing and Danvers set Eric straight on the rulings that could apply. Where as Eric said he used the AFA logo and changed things, Ron says he didn't, so the rules may be different, that's for law types to talk about.
Ben Sturman
AFA CF #7558

Tough times never last, but tough people do!

Beware the lollipop of mediocrity, one lick and you will suck for ever!

Folks who think traditional farriery means perimeter fit don't know a heluva lot about shoeing. Tom Stovall,...
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RE:Ron K Logo 16 Jun 2008 03:25 #38

  • Tom Stovall CJF
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J.H. shoeing in gray

Well since "most" horse owners don't have any idea what the AFA or any of their logos are does it really make any differance?

The AFA has had about 35 years or so to get this across to the horse owning public and hasn't made it yet.


While I'll be the first to admit the AFA has done a lousy job of promoting the certification program, having somebody use a thinly-disguised ripoff of the AFA's CJF logo in order to promote themselves was momentarily offputting to me. However, when I considered the source and the only possible motivation he could have for using a CJF lookalike logo, I figured he was more to be pitied than scorned and I wondered why I'd ever allowed myself to be upset at such a pathetic act. As I see it, someone's using a deceptive logo in an obvious attempt to fool folks into thinking they've earned something they haven't engenders in me the same contempt a rodeo cowboy feels for anyone who buys a trophy buckle and claims to've won it. :)
Tom Stovall, CJF
"The only foolish question is the one left unasked."
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RE:Ron K Logo 16 Jun 2008 03:43 #39

  • J.H. shoeing
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Tom Stovall, CJF wrote:
As I see it, someone's using a deceptive logo in an obvious attempt to fool folks into thinking they've earned something they haven't engenders in me the same contempt a rodeo cowboy feels for anyone who buys a trophy buckle and claims to've won it. :)

I whole heartedly agree. I have seen folks claiming to be everything from garbagemen to congressmen and more times than not, the former being more qualified than the latter.

I guess I've softened up. I figured the horses will tell the tale.;)
Jeff Holder

Some people are like Slinky’s, pretty much useless but make you smile when you push them down the stairs.
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RE:Ron K Logo 16 Jun 2008 04:11 #40

While my better judgment tells me to not respond to most of the hyperbole that has been posted I’ll say a few things.

First, I state clearly on my card and invoices that I am a Certified Farrier. My company logo says nothing about my certification level to the average or even educated horse owner. If I were trying to pull the wool over anyone’s eyes the paperwork would be misleading over all.

Second, just because something is similar it does not make it the same. Just you assuming and stating that I am using the AFA CJF logo does not make it so. But I guess that is how some of you boys like to play it. Make accusations, not back by fact, then keep making them until everyone assumes they are true. To me that is unethical but what the heck why let the truth or facts get in the way. The sad part is people actually buy into it.

Third, I have three law firms because I used to be a corporate executive. I have one that still handles corporate garbage, one that handles retirement/estate planning and one that deals with problems. I used to have four, one to handle intellectual property issues because of software copyrights. Perhaps I’ll have to get them back on board, perhaps not.

Fourth, and importantly to me there are a lot of men in the AFA that I have a lot of respect for. Fortunately and unfortunately the vast majority of them do not participate here. Your opinions and speculations about my motives will be treated with the care and consideration that they deserve.

Lastly and perhaps most importantly, the federal trademark registry says in the description of trademark: “The mark consists of the initials AFA and an anvil design encircled by a bar horseshoe, with the words Certified Journeyman Farrier below.” Since this is the description associated, even those less fortunate in their education should understand that all of the elements must be present for it to be the same. Since two of the major elements described above are not present I’d suggest that making the accusation in an of itself is manipulative and disingenuous tripe.
Ronald E. Kramedjian, RJF

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"What is popular is not always right; what is right is not always popular." Unknown

"In matters of style swim with the current; In matters of principle, stand like a...
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RE:Ron K Logo 16 Jun 2008 04:41 #41

  • Red Amor
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Ay Ron
Bloody nice logo olson little bit like the Aussie one but I'm not gonna bite ya arse about that
What is it about 10% or something alike the difference need be between things to avoid trouble
I recon you've about well covered that Olson and anyway who gives a rats tell to go n get artificially inseminated son

good on ya Ron
Mark Anthony Amor
If we want anymore excrement like that outta you we'll squeese ya head :eek:
Mind how ya go now ;)
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RE:Ron K Logo 16 Jun 2008 04:44 #42

Ronald E. Kramedjian wrote:
While my better judgment tells me to not respond to most of the hyperbole that has been posted I’ll say a few things.

First, I state clearly on my card and invoices that I am a Certified Farrier. My company logo says nothing about my certification level to the average or even educated horse owner. If I were trying to pull the wool over anyone’s eyes the paperwork would be misleading over all.

Second, just because something is similar it does not make it the same. Just you assuming and stating that I am using the AFA CJF logo does not make it so. But I guess that is how some of you boys like to play it. Make accusations, not back by fact, then keep making them until everyone assumes they are true. To me that is unethical but what the heck why let the truth or facts get in the way. The sad part is people actually buy into it.

Third, I have three law firms because I used to be a corporate executive. I have one that still handles corporate garbage, one that handles retirement/estate planning and one that deals with problems. I used to have four, one to handle intellectual property issues because of software copyrights. Perhaps I’ll have to get them back on board, perhaps not.

Fourth, and importantly to me there are a lot of men in the AFA that I have a lot of respect for. Fortunately and unfortunately the vast majority of them do not participate here. Your opinions and speculations about my motives will be treated with the care and consideration that they deserve.

Lastly and perhaps most importantly, the federal trademark registry says in the description of trademark: “The mark consists of the initials AFA and an anvil design encircled by a bar horseshoe, with the words Certified Journeyman Farrier below.” Since this is the description associated, even those less fortunate in their education should understand that all of the elements must be present for it to be the same. Since two of the major elements described above are not present I’d suggest that making the accusation in an of itself is manipulative and disingenuous tripe.

Ron, a little off subject, but I have never liked an upside down shoe as a logo. Always makes me think it is bad luck. However a bar shoe might hold the luck in, don't know. I have a few hats from dealers with upside down shoe logos on them and feel it is testing fate by wearing them, so I now wear carhartt hats. Why not an upright shoe to hold the luck in. I also make sure my hammer handle does not face the horn. I don't know maybe I'm weird?
Phil Armitage, CF
AFA member 7480

"Anyone who proposes to do good must not expect people to roll stones out of his way, but must accept his lot calmly if they even roll a few more upon it." Albert Schweitzer
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RE:Ron K Logo 16 Jun 2008 04:49 #43

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Miiiiiiight just be a tad Phil yeah;):p he he
Mark Anthony Amor
If we want anymore excrement like that outta you we'll squeese ya head :eek:
Mind how ya go now ;)
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RE:Ron K Logo 16 Jun 2008 10:48 #44

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Phil Armitage wrote:
Ron, a little off subject, but I have never liked an upside down shoe as a logo. Always makes me think it is bad luck. However a bar shoe might hold the luck in, don't know. I have a few hats from dealers with upside down shoe logos on them and feel it is testing fate by wearing them, so I now wear carhartt hats. Why not an upright shoe to hold the luck in. I also make sure my hammer handle does not face the horn. I don't know maybe I'm weird?

Phil- what is wrong with you? Your shoe is supposed to be upside down because the blacksmith makes his own luck! These are the important things your supposed to know in farriery. :)
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RE:Ron K Logo 16 Jun 2008 11:06 #45

Eric Russell wrote:
Phil- what is wrong with you? Your shoe is supposed to be upside down because the blacksmith makes his own luck! These are the important things your supposed to know in farriery. :)

I'm trying to learn these things, are you sure?
Phil Armitage, CF
AFA member 7480

"Anyone who proposes to do good must not expect people to roll stones out of his way, but must accept his lot calmly if they even roll a few more upon it." Albert Schweitzer
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