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TOPIC: The AFA and the truth.....

RE:The AFA and the truth..... 13 Apr 2008 23:31 #91

  • Jaye Perry
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Ronald E. Kramedjian-
First,......

Second, ......the next Chair if the Chair resigns before the end of their term.

Third, ......to go did we feel that we needed to be free of it so unanimously?

There is .......

Yes I imagine ......a sad commentary on the profession and the AFA


Has anyone ever noticed that ever couple years Ron is in some type of tru-moil??

Guess we will keep our calendars open for the next couple years and see the same...http://s150.photobucket.com/player.swf?refURL=/&file=http://vid150.photobucket.com/albums/s120/ferrous2007/shoe%2520god/lala.flv&fs=1&os=1&ap=1
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RE:The AFA and the truth..... 13 Apr 2008 23:33 #92

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I'm not the brightest bulb in the shed, could somebody due me a favor and give me the link as to which part of the afa website couldn't just be erased without anyone missing it?
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RE:The AFA and the truth..... 13 Apr 2008 23:38 #93

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Eric Russell wrote:
I'm not the brightest bulb in the shed, could somebody due me a favor and give me the link as to which part of the afa website couldn't just be erased without anyone missing it?


Easy Eric, they have numbers>>>>>>>>> HA!:rolleyes:

Only 1/3 of what they here:eek:
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RE:The AFA and the truth..... 14 Apr 2008 01:36 #94

For a few years now I've wondered why Ron wanted to be put into the spotlight of the AFA. For some reason he just wants to be "known" for something. He concentrates so much on getting "recognized" in the AFA when he should be learning how to shoe horses.

First the Katrina relief thing, then run for VP, now the IT comittee.

Why don't you just sit back and learn the business end of a horses foot.
"Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects." Will Rogers

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBimQu6Pxxs
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RE:The AFA and the truth..... 14 Apr 2008 11:06 #95

In politics the more harmful and fatal wounds are more often self inflicted. :cool:
Phil Armitage, CF
AFA member 7480

"Anyone who proposes to do good must not expect people to roll stones out of his way, but must accept his lot calmly if they even roll a few more upon it." Albert Schweitzer
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RE:The AFA and the truth..... 14 Apr 2008 11:56 #96

  • Rick Burten
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That's the spirit! Denigrate and insult the folks who try to help. No other agenda, just a willingness to step up and be counted. No wonder we continue to struggle with membership and progress.

No worries here though. Its taken a bit of time, but the lesson has been well learned.

Rick
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In the immortal words of Ron White: "But let me tell you something, folks: You can't fix S-tupid. There's not a pill you can take; there's not a class you can go to. S-tupid is forever."
."


Je pense donc je suis
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RE:The AFA and the truth..... 14 Apr 2008 13:31 #97

Eric Russell wrote:
Here's my next question: Why is some non afa, volunteer(C. Michael Behr), with a personal relationship with Andrew Elsbree doing messing in IT commitee business?
That is something the IT Committee asked and that only Mr. Elsbree and Mr. Behr can answer.

Eric Russell wrote:
And what is the involvement of the EC in all this?
Eric, I have posted all of the EC and Board Minutes that I have in my possession on my site. There was a motion before the EC to require the IT Committee to cooperate with Mr. Behr. You already have all of the email that I exchanged with Mr. Behr on the topic including his agreement that finishing the re-hosting project was a priority. If you have more questions I would suggest that you ask the EC.
Ronald E. Kramedjian, RJF

Visit the Guild of Professional Farriers, Inc. Website

"What is popular is not always right; what is right is not always popular." Unknown

"In matters of style swim with the current; In matters of principle, stand like a...
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RE:The AFA and the truth..... 14 Apr 2008 23:43 #98

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Ronald E. Kramedjian wrote:
That is something the IT Committee asked and that only Mr. Elsbree and Mr. Behr can answer.

I've never been a big fan of micromanaging. If Andrew has time to be president and run the IT, more power to him. I hope he's at least having fun being president.
Eric, I have posted all of the EC and Board Minutes that I have in my possession on my site. There was a motion before the EC to require the IT Committee to cooperate with Mr. Behr. You already have all of the email that I exchanged with Mr. Behr on the topic including his agreement that finishing the re-hosting project was a priority. If you have more questions I would suggest that you ask the EC.

I thought I was supposed to call Bruce?:confused:
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RE:The AFA and the truth..... 15 Apr 2008 00:19 #99

Rick Burten wrote:
That's the spirit! Denigrate and insult the folks who try to help. No other agenda, just a willingness to step up and be counted. No wonder we continue to struggle with membership and progress.

No worries here though. Its taken a bit of time, but the lesson has been well learned.

Rick


If my post seemed dnigrating, I didn't mean it that way, but I have always wondered. Ron's been shoeing now for what 3 or 4 years. And in that time he's tried to run committees, run for VP of the most widely known farriers association and from my experience in that time he should barely be able to confidently and correctly pull shoes and finish a foot properly each and every time. Why would someone that just started in the business, want to suddenly jump in head first into the politics of the business?

just a question I don't expect an answer to.
"Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects." Will Rogers

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBimQu6Pxxs
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RE:The AFA and the truth..... 15 Apr 2008 02:32 #100

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Here we go again, I 've been too busy to check this site for a few days and the children have been up to mischief. On 4/13, post #81 of this thread, Rick Burten stated that the AFA website went down, Ron K. was authorized by a Board member to fix it, and then was "excoriated and insulted" for doing so.

Now, for all of you that have been following this, here is the rest of the story, listen closely. First of all, I was that board member who "authorized" Ron to do so. He called me just as I was pulling my boots on to umpire a polo game at Cornell. He told me the AFA site was down and that he might be able to fix the error, if I authorized him to do so. In the minute that I had to think about it, I told him, that if he could get on (the passwords were supposed to have been changed), he should fix it. Later that evening he contacted me via email saying that he fixed it and I thanked him for his service. I knew I was sticking my neck out, but I did what I thought needed to be done on the spur of the moment and I assumed full responsiblity.

That same night, I also received some information from a consultant that I had informally asked several weeks ago about advise for the AFA website. I had questions for RON K. that pertained to the IT turnover document that he had sent to me weeks ago. I also thought that it was strange that he gained access because I was sure the passwords were changed, so I expressed this to him the next day.

Now Rick, look up the definition of "excoriated" and "insulted". You probably have been forwarded my email from Ron, which was a private comunication between he & I. I don't believe I excoriated or insulted him but asked legitimate questions, to which I got a snotty response. Now, you are posting comments out of context, to further damage the AFA, which seems to be the agenda for Rick & Ron. That's not like you Rick!

Now, those of you who have been following all this, ask yourselves, was I set up by Ron K. so he could look important "rescuing" the AFA. Is he a fireman who starts fires, so he can put them out? Why did Ron know the AFA's site was down on a Fri. Nite? He first called the AFA office and was told to leave it alone. Why did he then call me? How did Ron gain access to fix things if the pass words were changed? ( and they were). Why did Ron immediately tell Rick about the web site being down and how a board member told him to fix it? Why is Rick even bringing this up? The matter was between Ron & me, it did not need to go any further, unless it was to be used as a political tool.

I feel like I was sucker punched by Ron, something he could only ever do from a distance. In the past, Ron has done a great deal of work for the AFA, which he deserves credit for. I trusted him and thought I could rely on his expertise. But all the **** that keeps coming up about the IT Com. is really coming from one source, some of you already have figured this out from your recent posts. Another item that has come to light, is that on the AFA's discussion forum, there have been "guests" logging on anonymously. This is on the members only part, which you need to be a registered AFA member. These "guests" are there to give those listening, anti -AFA propaganda. One of them babbles in some kind of "pidgeon english" to disguise himself. Guess where these "guests" have been traced back to.

Many of you know me and I do not make things up. The fact is, we are working on re-developing the AFA website. All this controversy can be traced back to problems with the old website and it is time to get past this. The BOD will be dealing with all of this at the May meeting. At this point I suggest that you all disregard anything Ron says on the matter, he will not get past this because he wants to control it. Sorry Ron, but this needs to said, it give me no pleasure to do so. You can cut it up any way you want, but I doubt anyone will listen. I am truly sorry. This is all I am going to say on this matter.

Steve Kraus, CJF, BOD
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RE:The AFA and the truth..... 15 Apr 2008 03:37 #101

  • Rick Burten
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anvilsteve wrote:
Here we go again, I 've been too busy to check this site for a few days and the children have been up to mischief. On 4/13, post #81 of this thread, Rick Burten stated that the AFA website went down, Ron K. was authorized by a Board member to fix it, and then was "excoriated and insulted" for doing so.
So post those e-mails and let the membership decide for themselves.
Now, for all of you that have been following this, here is the rest of the story, listen closely. First of all, I was that board member who "authorized" Ron to do so. He called me just as I was pulling my boots on to umpire a polo game at Cornell. He told me the AFA site was down and that he might be able to fix the error, if I authorized him to do so. In the minute that I had to think about it, I told him, that if he could get on (the passwords were supposed to have been changed), he should fix it. Later that evening he contacted me via email saying that he fixed it and I thanked him for his service. I knew I was sticking my neck out, but I did what I thought needed to be done on the spur of the moment and I assumed full responsiblity.
Absolutely true and good on you for your actions. Unfortunately for you, you'll probably be spanked, rather than thanked.
That same night, I also received some information from a consultant that I had informally asked several weeks ago about advise for the AFA website. I had questions for RON K. that pertained to the IT turnover document that he had sent to me weeks ago. I also thought that it was strange that he gained access because I was sure the passwords were changed, so I expressed this to him the next day.
You asked those questions in with an accusatory tone and an insulting manner.

Again, post your e-mail exchange and let everyone decide for themselves.
Now Rick, look up the definition of "excoriated" and "insulted". You probably have been forwarded my email from Ron, which was a private comunication between he & I.
Unless you state it in your e-mail, the recipient is free to do with it as s/he pleases.
I don't believe I excoriated or insulted him but asked legitimate questions, to which I got a snotty response.
Post the e-mail exchange in the order it occurred and let everyone else decide for themselves.
Now, you are posting comments out of context, to further damage the AFA, which seems to be the agenda for Rick & Ron. That's not like you Rick!
I have neither the wish nor the desire nor the agenda to damage the AFA. The leadership is quite capable of doing that of their own accord.

And , the comments were posted in context. To prove me incorrect, you have but to post the e-mails in chronological order and let everyone decide for themselves.
Now, those of you who have been following all this, ask yourselves, was I set up by Ron K. so he could look important "rescuing" the AFA. Is he a fireman who starts fires, so he can put them out?
No, absolutely not. And, demonstrably so.
Why did Ron know the AFA's site was down on a Fri. Nite?
Because I called him and told him about it. Until that telephone call, he was not aware of the problem.. He then said he would check it out and see if there was anything he could do to help resolve the situation.
He first called the AFA office and was told to leave it alone.
No sir, not true in any aspect. The office was closed. Ron had the Office Manager's cell phone number. He called her to ask her if she knew of the problem and what she was going to do about it. She told him that she had been told/ordered to do absolutely nothing with regard to issues involving the web site.
Why did he then call me?
Because he knew that even before he resigned as IT committee chairman, Mr. Elsbree had contacted you and asked you to chair the committee.

Subseque3nt to that, he had also asked you to join the IT committee and you in fact were a member of the IT committee at the time the other members of the committee resigned.

It was therefore logical, astute and pro-active of him to call you to let you know of the problem(about which, at the time, you knew nothing) and to offer his assistance, should you want it, in trying to resolve the problem.
How did Ron gain access to fix things if the pass words were changed?
The answer to that question is contained in the e-mail exchange that occurred between you and Mr. Kramedjian. So, post the e-mails in chronological order and let everyone see and decide for themselves, the facts and truth of the matter.
Why did Ron immediately tell Rick about the web site being down and how a board member told him to fix it?
You got that backwards. I told Ron about the problem. He then did that which is noted above.

Subsequent to the problem being fixed, Ron called me for two reasons. First, to tell me he had corrected the problem, and second to ask me to attempt to access the site and see if it was working. I did so immediately, and it was. Problem solved. No fanfare, no marching bands, no nothing. Just an AFA member stepping up to offer to help the AFA with a problem in an area where he has expertise.
Why is Rick even bringing this up? The matter was between Ron & me, it did not need to go any further, unless it was to be used as a political tool.
I brought it up because it was yet another example of how the AFA leadership treats those that for what ever reason are on the "Black list".
I feel like I was sucker punched by Ron, something he could only ever do from a distance.
Ron did nothing of the sort, and that is an succinct example of how this had been handled by the AFA leadership, from the git go.

And while you will have to take my word for it, trust me when I say that Mr. Kramedjian has never sucker punched anyone from near or afar. But if you doubt my word and wish to test it, all I ask is that I be allowed to handle the ticket concession to the event.
In the past, Ron has done a great deal of work for the AFA, which he deserves credit for. I trusted him and thought I could rely on his expertise. But all the **** that keeps coming up about the IT Com. is really coming from one source, some of you already have figured this out from your recent posts.
Really sucks when the truth comes to light and you're caught with your hand in the cookie jar, doesn't it?
Another item that has come to light, is that on the AFA's discussion forum, there have been "guests" logging on anonymously. This is on the members only part, which you need to be a registered AFA member. These "guests" are there to give those listening, anti -AFA propaganda. One of them babbles in some kind of "pidgeon english" to disguise himself. Guess where these "guests" have been traced back to.
Considering who has access to management of the web site, I would not doubt that they could arrange it so that, if they wanted, the posts would be traced back to Barack Obama. Or, Hillary Clinton. Or, J. Fred Muggs.
Many of you know me and I do not make things up.
Well, all I can say is that you may not make things up, but you sure don't get your facts straight. At least in this instance you didn't.

So, post the e-mails in chronological order and let everyone decide for themselves what is correct and what is incorrect.
The fact is, we are working on re-developing the AFA website.
So, you are working to waste the precious resources of the AFA, both monetary and personnel, to throw the baby out with the bathwater? The AFA expended considerable capital to get what it now has. A robust and secure web site. And now you're telling us that that was a waste of time, money and human resources? "Say it ain't so, Joe"

Why is that? In its current iteration, the web site is robust and secure. All it takes is someone with the ability to deal with Linux platforms and the website can be all that the AFA wants it to be.
Oh, wait, thats right, the AFA got rid of everyone who was qualified to deal with the system. Including the consultants.

And, to think, had the AFA leadership had been foresighted enough to allow the IT committee to finish the task it was assigned, the website would be basically self-managing, and the company, which owns the servers that host the AFA website, would be /is available at no additional cost to the AFA, to deal with issues such as this one when/if they arose.

And , they are doing this for approximately $100.00/month instead of the $500.00/month hosting fee and $100.00/hour consulting fee that was being charged the AFA by e-Resources. Makes sense to me. :confused:
All this controversy can be traced back to problems with the old website and it is time to get past this.
Riiiiiiight.
The BOD will be dealing with all of this at the May meeting.
Hip, Hip, Hurrah!!!
At this point I suggest that you all disregard anything Ron says on the matter, he will not get past this because he wants to control it. Sorry Ron, but this needs to said, it give me no pleasure to do so.
Well, there you go. Thank you for making my point. Ron wants nothing more to do with this and only stepped up to help because he thought he could provide a service to the AFA. He did provide that service and look what it has gotten him. Insulted, disparaged, and lied about. Well done!
You can cut it up any way you want, but I doubt anyone will listen. I am truly sorry. This is all I am going to say on this matter.

Steve Kraus, CJF, BOD

Good thing for some, that you now choose to remain silent. JMNTBCHO, of course.

Rick Burten.
Rick Burten PF

In the immortal words of Ron White: "But let me tell you something, folks: You can't fix S-tupid. There's not a pill you can take; there's not a class you can go to. S-tupid is forever."
."


Je pense donc je suis
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RE:The AFA and the truth..... 15 Apr 2008 03:58 #102

  • Rick Burten
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Dave Purves RJF wrote:
If my post seemed dnigrating, I didn't mean it that way,
Fair enough.
but I have always wondered. Ron's been shoeing now for what 3 or 4 years.
Actually, between full and part-time, approximately 8-8 1/2 years.
And in that time he's tried to run committees, run for VP of the most widely known farriers association and from my experience in that time he should barely be able to confidently and correctly pull shoes and finish a foot properly each and every time.
Perhaps, because of his experience as a Project Manager, he is able to multi-task effectively.

Obviously, your experience is unique to you. That is not to say that you are either correct or incorrect. As we all know, "It Depends" :)
Why would someone that just started in the business, want to suddenly jump in head first into the politics of the business?
That would be a question that only Mr. Kramedjian could answer.

Rick
Rick Burten PF

In the immortal words of Ron White: "But let me tell you something, folks: You can't fix S-tupid. There's not a pill you can take; there's not a class you can go to. S-tupid is forever."
."


Je pense donc je suis
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RE:The AFA and the truth..... 15 Apr 2008 10:30 #103

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Rick Burten wrote:
Unless you state it in your e-mail, the recipient is free to do with it as s/he pleases.

Do you really believe this?

No emails needed, why did kramedididegen have access even after passwords were changed?
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RE:The AFA and the truth..... 15 Apr 2008 10:48 #104

Hey Rick, why not let Ron respond? I have to tell you friend, your a hell of a better man than Ron and I really don't get why you watch his back as much as you do.

I have never met Ron in person, but experiences I have had with him on this forum have been nasty and he does not give me the impression that he forgives or forgets, like most of us on here do.
Phil Armitage, CF
AFA member 7480

"Anyone who proposes to do good must not expect people to roll stones out of his way, but must accept his lot calmly if they even roll a few more upon it." Albert Schweitzer
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RE:The AFA and the truth..... 15 Apr 2008 11:32 #105

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Rick Burten wrote:
Actually, between full and part-time, approximately 8-8 1/2 years.

Looking at the times of all those emails, maybe part time and quarter time would be more appropriate. :cool:
Perhaps, because of his experience as a Project Manager, he is able to multi-task effectively.

I have noticed if you do a better job shoeing a horse you get accepted by your peers much easier. So perhaps Ron should stick to that a little longer.
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